Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - J. J. Abrams

Episode Date: May 18, 2020

Filmmaker J.J. Abrams feels exceedingly lucky about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. J.J. sits down with Conan to discuss finding the confidence to take the reins on iconic franchises like Star Trek and Star Wars, how to cut together a good trailer, and getting his first gig writing the music for the 1982 horror film Nightbeast. Later, Conan considers his approach to ad reads as he and his team Review the Reviewers. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is JJ Abrams, and I feel exceedingly lucky about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a friend podcast that's chugging along even through this quarantine this global pandemic we're still trying to get you whatever it is we provide I honestly have no idea what this is but whatever this is we're doing our best to keep providing it it's probably masks medicines would be much more useful but this is what we have and we're going to keep making it for you until the government stops us I'm joined as always by my trusty assistant Sonam of Cessian. Hey Sonam. Hello, hi. You're coming to us from your home in a very rural part of California known as Altadena. It's not rural. Very rural, very far from me. No, was there other

houses there when you when you intact found that place were there other people there? Yes, there were really so it's an entire it's a neighborhood it's tents mostly tents and people have staked out their property and now they're just starting to build like in the old west who has contempt for houses that are just far away from him please it's just because it's far from you I'm the center okay and you are far from me it's that old classic New Yorker cartoon you know there's just Manhattan and there's the rest of the world they should do that where it's just Conan and then way off in the corner there's some frizzy hair on the horizon come on come on Matt Gourley you're here as well Matt good to see you hi we're all everybody's safe everybody taking care of themselves yeah

I'm thriving I don't think that's I don't think you're supposed to say that right now I think you're supposed to say I'm fine I'm holding up well but you're not supposed to say I'm thriving right well during the pandemic world aside I'm in my element because you like this you like being in your home with all the stuff you love your banjos and my model airplanes hey it's coming along pretty nice my stop with camel made of balsa wood from the Gilos balsa wood kit company anyway why go on at length we're here we're making these shows and we're still having a good time I I have to say I prefer being in the room with you guys and with our guests but this is pretty good I've been surprised at how well this is working I wasn't sure this would work out there's a lot

of technical challenges we spend about half an hour before each podcast session adjusting dials and knobs and trying to get the right levels yeah and you're doing very well except there's one more improvement we need to make well I'm sorry to see you go we're gonna miss you but I'm sure I be hard to find someone else with your eclectic tastes 50s telephones but anyway no go ahead well how can I what can we do to make this better I want it to be better well you're doing it right now you are talking into the side of the microphone and there's a big plosive problem with your peas because I take them all out in post-production but I asked you to talk past your microphone and I want to like show you this picture oh okay first of all you're talking not

even into the top edge of the microphone you've got it like over your face from the side and then there's a giant blue light on you you look like Braveheart or Gemini holograms or something I'll put this photo up well first of all that's not a blue light I think I had a hematoma I had a cerebral hemorrhage and bravely went on during the podcast so I guess eggs on your face as for talking I don't I think this is my subtle way of showing contempt for this medium yeah I think so do you see how the mic is not in front you know okay all right let me tell you something I I set myself up for this no no I'm no we're not gonna do the old I get you you get me we're not gonna do that we're not gonna become the bickersons I do take direction well my whole life people have

clipped a microphone and when I mean people there's 15 people that clip a microphone to my tie I don't know why it takes 15 it's a union thing and it's it's 14 people holding one person but they bring them over and they clip it onto my tie so I've never really had to deal with microphones this way so I apologize if I've caused you extra work but right now you sound perfect you've done it we're there Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers how many pickled peppers did Peter Piper pit now what happens so you when you go through what is it you do I'm curious to know how you contribute well wow no no it's a mystery to me I'm this is good this is good for me to know what you do so what is it other than being one of two members of the heart and soul of this podcast other than

glare at me while so in a laugh fills the air with her rich tones what is it you do you take out hard p sound oh my god so that's what you so that's what you do like if the cops pull you over they're like sir you're gonna have to step out of the car you realize you were going 75 yeah I'm sorry officer tell us what's your name I'm that girl what do you do I remove the plosives from the faux radio show more of a podcast if you will god sorry man last week we got along so well we were on the same team and now we're back into it it's I'm having a nose bleed this is what happens when you criticize one little thing about what Conan's doing he just criticized he had a picture ready and he put it up to try and sway the jury in a way that I thought was unfair you came at me

with photographic evidence and when you do that I have to come back with my full nuclear arsenal and make sure that you can never attack again that's the only way that's the only way for me to be safe look how glam rock you look in this photo though I know you know what that is I will post this on my instagram or something yeah post that on your instagram you know what I think that might be that they gave me this ring light that I use for the show no isn't it the power indicator on the microphone oh you're right it's this blue light it's the blue light that shows how close you are to this I thought we were supposed to bathe ourselves in the blue light because it prevented skin cancer so that's why I've been getting in so close is to save my life yeah that's it one side of your face

is completely freckled free now you'd look like a reverse two-face I know I'm just no I uh and Matt I please I think it goes without saying you do an enormous amount of work on this podcast and I value uh all that you do and my lawyer just called and wrote that wrote that out for me um I wish you well in all future endeavors there I'm done oh my god let's get on with you that's worse that's worse than when he rags I know yeah so not always says the worst thing I do is apologize because when I say you know what so now I really I really do value you and you really are a great person she can't handle it no it's awful because you're holding your breath for what's coming next yeah it's not genuine and it's it is genuine yeah it is genuine you know I genuinely value both of

you I think you guys stop it stop it I do I hate this I hate this stop it it's worse it's so much hey guys can I say one thing since we're on the uh since we're on the topic of of mic stuff this is Mr. Will Bekdon and Will uh no I again no idea what you do I'm an engineer of some sort I believe is that right yes yeah and you look like you uh just escape from a cult that you started uh that's the only cult I'd be a part of yeah um the just one thing it as a as a aid sona is a natural as far as mic technique so of course you just look at sona oh my god as far as distance and also because her voice is like in the pattern and what the mic picks up well first of all we should tell people sona doesn't use a mic her oh my god her voice is so loud that she

just starts speaking and everyone can register it you've been on television for how long using microphones podcasts are completely different kettle of fish that's a whole yeah it's a whole new uh terrain filled with uh sea life no you've I've seen you hold so many microphones in the time yeah holding it's different this is a very intimate medium I want people to get to know me so I want to almost have the microphone inside me oh my god okay we need a wrap you just you can't say thank you for the note everybody and we will uh I will take that note and I will do better next time thank you for the note given to me publicly with photographic evidence on the podcast I guess is what you want sure thanks that and and in the future that's how

I'll address you guys as well once you learn how to take a screenshot oh my god direct hit direct hit wow wow that was delicious have you guys watched the movie good fellas oh no do you remember when they're all playing poker oh and spider who's played this is exactly how I felt coming into this podcast the first season I felt just like spider where I was gonna go go fuck yourself yeah spider spider has to get in the drinks and he's played uh beautifully by uh from the sopranos um Michael imperial Michael imperiali he takes all this uh shit from Joe pesce and then finally he tells him to go fuck himself or in this case uh hey you speak into the mic wrong and you can't take a screenshot yeah and everyone else laughs so soon as deniro

and she's laughing and everyone's laughing like oh all right spider good for you spider spider is fucking up and pesce's doing what I did remaining perfectly silent and just staring staring at Michael imperiali uh if you don't know what happens next you should watch the movie I'm not joking I thought about that the first season I felt like oh my god yeah that reminded me of that yeah but Joe pesce is intimidating oh she just spidered herself I hate it here in my own podcast oh man I'm better than you at microphones I have designed a special world that I can get inside of even during a pandemic and be humiliated all right we we uh I deserve all of that I am uh a tech moron but uh and a monster uh terrible that's not fun when you do that I know I know

it's funny I don't even mean it I mean a monster in the way look genius geniuses are difficult listen please let's hurry up let's get to it Mozart anyway oh my god I'm not an easy guy anyway here we go genius is often difficult Michael Jordan not an easy guy okay here we go wow I'm Jordan here we go by my sneakers here we go my guest today is an extremely talented filmmaker behind some of the biggest movies and television shows of the past 20 years including lost star trek super eight and star wars the force awakens he also happens to be an incredibly uh lovely and funny human being very excited to talk to him today JJ Abrams welcome

we've known each other I remember exactly the first time I talked to you and you could not have been nicer it's when I was I think second time I was hosting the Emmys I called you up because I had an idea of jumping through the different shows and I wanted it to start on lost and someone said just call JJ Abrams and I remembered saying I can't just call JJ Abrams and they said yeah you can uh it never occurs to me that I might be able to do that you can do that you can call people I know and I uh well I it's a whole other story that's a whole therapy session but I called you and you could not have been nicer and you said yes uh yes of course would love to do this segment and uh I'd like to direct it and I um I was on cloud nine that was really fun by the

way it was fun it was it was really fun and then I'm gonna be honest with you I thought I've just been directed by JJ Abrams this is gonna lead to a lot of film work nothing a vast tundra that's what happens when people work with me silence you're in good company my friend JJ Abrams killed my film career and this led this is where I really want to begin yeah I understand you are a you are at the top of your game uh I absolutely adore your work you understand you've worked with just monumental uh iconic figures like a Harrison Ford multiple times you know what a movie star looks like what am I missing is it the lips or the lips too thin it's the eyes isn't it it's the beady it's the tone of voice you're being really hard on yourself for the first time ever

if you really cared about me you'd be honest and you'd say look Conan you have certain qualities that have helped you in the business it's the lips it's the vein near your eye it's the reedy nasally tone all right I'll be all I'm gonna be honest with you it's the vein near your eye yes what the hell are you talking about I'm talking about a very I have a very prominent eye vein I have translucent irish skin and I have uh a vein you have PEV prominent eye vein yes yes thank you for a minute I was like what's PEV sona tell sona tell JJ I have a prominent eye vein oh my god it's horrific okay all right take it easy so horrific you know when you see an old lady at the beach and her leg there's just a massive vein going down the side like a varicose vein

yes a varicose vein I have a giant old lady's leg varicose vein running under my eye my right eye and I've never noticed that now it's all I'm going to see well it pulsates when I'm enraged and you've never ever that's incredible I remember the first time I saw you and it was uh I went to one of your test shows when you were first doing your first series and Tom Selleck was the test guest on in this test show it's all a blur to me but yeah okay I know but I just I I will never forget it and it was uh it was you know this was gonna be the new guy that was taken over like who's you get what who's this guy and you came out and you know even in that test show I just remembered you you killed it and it was this thing of of getting to see

something before anyone else saw it and we just got I don't even know how we got tickets and we got to go and it was really super fun and I just was like oh my god this guy is gonna be the new guy and that's here you are that's so sweet uh that was now that's not like 20 almost 28 years ago hard to believe or 27 years crazy seven years ago but um it's amazing that I'm still in my 40s and the point is that I remember about those test shows I think we did 10 test shows and they were either great or they were horrific so I'm glad you saw oh I saw a good one I'm so glad you saw a good one because and then uh the show uh was all over the map for the first uh year or so but uh we studied the ship and what were you feeling like when you first were going out there doing that like

in the test shows even before you went on air it was a mixture of either and this is the most honest answer I can give either complete lack of confidence and a feeling that I'm a complete fraud or total oh no I'm going to do this because this is God's will kind of confidence and I don't understand and it would vacillate between the two of them and I still have and I I've talked to other people it's not completely uncommon I wouldn't say the extremes are that great but I still have moments of I can't do this I'm not going to be any good at this this is terrible idea this is a mistake and I need to call the person and talk them out of me doing this event because I'm not going to be it's not going to work or aren't they lucky that they get to see me I don't understand

I don't understand that brain chemistry that is weird I think that is probably uh I think that they're both necessary ingredients to be able to have the kind of audacity to think that you're going to be able to and you're worthy of entertaining people and the ability to be someone in the audience to have that to be able to jump into the the you know the observer point of view and and right which of course means you can't be also the person on stage and in those moments it's like what the hell am I doing you know assuming I can be the one who goes up and does it well you're a perfect person to talk to about this because you have taken on these responsibilities that I can't even imagine I've done some things that are scary in my life as a

performer or comedian things that have really terrified me things that I look back on them and I go wow that was that was intense but I think about you having to you know curate coordinate be at the very center of these massive productions and I think I would wake up at night and I mean in my case justifiably so I would wake up and think this is how is this happening how can this even happen I don't know if you ever have moments as JJ Abrams where you say I'm directing you know Harrison Ford in Star Wars I this was an iconic movie that helped you know launch my interest in film and now I'm here doing it and he has to do what I tell him to do or he's or he's fired that's I mean did you have moments where you step outside yourself and oh yeah I think it happens

all the time I mean there there have been moments where I've I remember we were shooting on the first Star Trek movie we did and there was this one scene where there was this group of what were meant to be these really bad scary guys and I sort of cast all these these bald guys we had tattoos on their faces and they you know and I thought okay these gonna be really interesting looking and it'd be kind of cool and the character of captain of this ship was coming over Captain Rebao and on that day I realized oh god he's also bald completely bald and I have all these these bald guys and I looked at the bad guys and they I realized they kind of looked like they were sort of in like a like a boy band like a k-pop and and then I looked at the at the fall captain

coming over and I just and I broke into this crazy sweat and I and and the first ad was like you know so are you ready I'm like I'm like nope and I walked away and I was like literally I walked behind the set and kind of you know walked around by myself just in this panic like what the fuck am I gonna do to make any of and it was this crazy you know moment and it's just one of dozens that I can think of where I was justifiably in a state of kind of near oh my god this is the other shoe drop this is the moment when not only I but everyone finally realizes that there's not a reason I should be doing this and and it was it just it's it's it's you know those those happen all the time I'm a big fan of that movie and I loved your fix for that was to have all the other

bald guys wear a Mets caps to offset them I just thought Mets fans yeah and I have to say it took me out of the moment for a second and then you just got right past it and you know it's another thing yeah because I'm I try very hard I'm very impressed by what you do and I'm very impressed I think a lot of it or a piece of it is you do it very well but I also don't understand it I fundamentally don't understand what it is everything I do is very immediate I go out and I do it and it's immediate and it and then it's either it's good medium bad we fix it if we can but then we move on and I'm thinking of you being involved in these projects that take a year and a half two years and there's so much time to massage it to try and figure something out

and editing that I would feel that you could get lost I would just I don't understand how you don't get completely lost in the process it's a weird thing because you know obviously doing what you do and having you know worked at SNL and like you know and where it is literally you know live and happening in the moment and then things like The Simpsons where it's it's you know a year and a half before you see the the animation and you know you've you've worked in all sorts of things and obviously going off and doing remotes and things you know you you you've experienced everything that I've experienced in in just you know slightly different ways and I would say that for me it's it's never live TV it's never happening you know real time but the truth is that that

it's seat of your pants and you know usually on something whether it's a Star Trek or Star Wars movie those are movies where you know you rarely read a header for a scene you know interior hardware store a day it's always impossible and doesn't exist on the planet R2C2 is buying house paint captain Spock Spock needs some caulking for the bathroom which is a underrated scene by the way those scenes don't happen so you're always looking at like how do we even begin to imagine where this thing would ever take place and how does it look and and as big as the crew may be and as large as the production is it's always the thing that makes it work is that you're working with people who are great the people the people you can rely on who are as freaked out as you are

and have their own moments of I'm not worthy all the time as well but are looking at you as you're looking at them like we you know how are we going to do this we're going to figure it out together and and you know I don't know what kind of you know Cajones I think I have to be able to say yes to things that are where I'm like there's an audacity there that I you know I feel is maybe a mental illness that's what I wanted to get to is is your mental illness and and and this is really the point this isn't more of an intervention I think than a podcast but when you but when you think about it what I do relate to and I try to convey this to people say yes first and then figure it out but I used to believe I'm I was raised to be very responsible and I was raised to be you

know only say yes if you really know you can do it and that you're going to be there and you've thought it through and all the pivotal moments in my life have been hey can you do this thing and I just something in me said yes when I had no idea how I was going to do it and yes if you sat with a rational team of people and said well they want this Star Wars movie that should take 24 you know months to do and they want it in 13 months and there is 150 million moving pieces let's rationally think this through logical people would say it can't be done but all the good stuff gets done that way I think that that's true and it's it's part of the fun but it's not you know it's not necessarily meant to just be about the fun and and and you know I

think it depends what the thing is if someone someone says listen you know will you perform this heart surgery it's like yes it's like there are certain stakes that I think you know like I need to realize you know at a certain point there are things that are important that I got lucky you know on the first couple movies I did the the Mission Impossible 3 and the Star Trek the first one you know we did and so when we for example when we shot the Star Trek movie you know the first one we didn't do any reshoots at all you know the the only thing we added during the mix is I filmed there's a kid driving a car in the beginning of the movie young Kirk I went on the we went on the roof of the parking structure at Fox and I filmed the kid a close-ups of him driving just I didn't

feel like we had enough of that like that was the entire reshoot for the Star Trek movie again obviously in this moment now you know who knows post COVID-19 who knows sort of how and what that will look like and and I do think that once once this lifts I do think we revert I think you're probably right I just I just think we do and I think that there's a question what do you think does carry over like in terms of uh because you know there's obviously a lot of people who are obviously struggling and it's and that's awful and and and then you know a lot of people are just sort of getting by and doing okay and different people have different versions of struggle but you know everyone seems to have some version of you know that there there is an aspect of this

that is making them re-examine things and I just wonder like what people will be taking into you know post COVID life that they've you know that they learned I have a theory that we are going to I know myself and I think it's true of I think it's true of a lot of people I so appreciate now I so appreciate all the people in my life that I work with because I love working with people I've always liked uh being in the mix and and and being around a lot of people and in your work you're you're collaborating with a lot of really funny smart sharp people very talented people and I am going to try to hang on to that appreciation for as long as I can after this lifts part of me suspects because I'm a human being a revert you know with it after like a six month

period um and I was just talking about that with uh with Judd Apatow about that about just how like you know people it will just sort of snap back to whatever bad habits I don't know where you were living after when 9 11 occurred I was living in Manhattan you know my wife and I would go to restaurants and this is the days after 9 11 and you know the the waitress would come over and would say sit down and and and the groups of people I were with I was with they would the the waiter the manager people would come and sit down with us we were all saying how are you where do you live are you okay it was really beautiful and I remembered it lasting like three weeks and then I saw people you know lifting up their credit card and dropping it behind their back as if to say if you

don't catch this by the time it hits the floor missy there's no tip for you like I mean I don't know I I hope that we'll we'll I hope that we'll do better I think I'm a little uh not sure not sure that we will I do think we will probably revert in a lot of ways I guess that like that to be what we take away from this podcast with JJ is human beings are terrible JJ's mentally ill human beings are bad and uh my film career has been ruined by my pulsating varicose ivane um you know what it fascinated me and I love you've had this insane success in film but you came at it through TV initially and it really was a love of television and we've talked about this but we're both lovers of 1960s television and for you it was the Twilight Zone and yeah I love the Twilight Zone and um it

was such you know I later learned much more about Rod Serling because Rod Serling was the guy who would and if you're listening right now and you're not familiar with that show it was such such an iconic show and it was hosted by this brilliant guy named Rod Serling who would come out at the top of the show and then introduce you to this tale and you never knew the rest of television was predictable because nobody died no regular cast member died on a regular you know episode of a TV show in this in a Twilight Zone anything could happen and you'd really get in you'd really get invested in it and as I've looked more and more into Rod Serling I found out he was this fascinating man who I believe was key in coming up to like the ending

of Planet of the Apes is that true or is that yes he wrote the uh the the he was one of the writers of the the Charlton Heston feature and uh that was his ending the the Statue of Liberty ending was not in the novel because it was originally a french novel but but he he um he was an amazing guy and he actually uh didn't live far from from here from where we live and he uh his his wife who I got to know uh Carol who sadly passed away a few months ago um she was an amazing woman and and I remember reading that Rod Serling would dictate his scripts as opposed to sitting at at a typewriter and so one day I asked Carol if she had any of the recordings she said oh yes I was like what you have you know could you could you send me one and she had one that was

that was digitized and she sent it to me um on a a cd and it was like one am and I was in my office at home and I put the the cd in and I hit play and it was it was a recording from a a dictaphone and the recording had been bent it was like a like a belt almost and it had been bent so there was just kind of like this like this this sort of constant like like sounds like I was like this is kind of weird and then I heard this like crinkling sound which which I recognized immediately as the sound of the the microphone that was on a plastic cord and it had an on off switch and he would turn it off when he wanted to think and he would turn it on again to record so there was this this and then this crinkling sound and then this like loud sort of hit of the button

and there was Rod Serling's voice saying interior diner man walks in looks around and and and I heard this a crinkling and then and he was like stopping to think what happens next and I got to like hear when Rod Serling would stop and consider the next thing that he looks at the waiter raises his hand miss you know and then every once in a while he said Denise remind me to tell Carol and he'd like personal notes that's a great Rod Serling too that's a fantastic Rod Serling yeah you know it's it's fascinating this goes to something that I think you agree with how can you really blow people away in movies we live in this era of for example um and I'm thinking of this because we brought up we're talking about Rod Serling and these amazing endings we live in

an era where it's impossible not to have things spoiled for you and Planet of the Apes I remembered watching that movie I was too young to see it in the theater when it came out but I saw it later on in a movie theater and when that ending is revealed with the Statue of Liberty and the sand I have a visceral connection to how blown away I was and how everything suddenly made sense and I had the same feeling when I saw Citizen Kane for the first time and then I finally it's revealed what Rosebud it that Rosebud's this led and I'm just I was just like oh my god that that meant so much to me an electrical shock went through my body I've had the experience now of watching things I introduced my son Beckett to things and I'll show him and I'll be showing him

Planet of the Apes the original with Charlton Heston and he'll say oh they're on earth and I'll say we're like 20 minutes in and I'll go wait why do you know that and he went there's a Simpsons where they sing a song about how and I'm like fuck that's exactly right by the way that is so true and this happens all the time with with me and and my kids but Augie in particular he everything has been referenced so many times in shows you've worked on yes no wait a minute how did this get to be my fault but it's true it happened with it and I showed him Citizen Kane and he went yeah it's a sled and I went what and he went yeah there's an episode where Mr. Burns says Rosebud and like a sled falls out of the ceiling and I'm that's amazing I'm enraged because the kids all know

the references I know and and I know the references are so clever and hyper-knowing and by the way it's like and if it's not that then then things are being spoiled you know online and and everything's being discussed so it's like it doesn't it doesn't you really matter where it comes from it's like there's almost I don't know what it was what it was like or if there was a kind of respect for the story or some kind of sense of like the sanctity of of keeping the ending you know but like all that is gone now and and and everything is fodder like anything that can be used it's almost like we're all like monkeys in cages like anything that we can pick up and throw at the bars yeah you know we do and I and I feel like like the that idea of like you know if someone doesn't like something

that someone does you know it has to be a weapon that you have to be you know insidiously bitingly you know clever about online if something is ruinable you know who's the first one who can you know find a way to to you know to to ruin the ending for it just it becomes a race to like shock and to you know and I think yes it's the Simpsons by the way is the is the least of it because at least that's like genuinely brilliant and hysterically funny the idea that it's just sort of you know everything is just I don't know grist for the mill it just feels like there's no respect for kind of trying to keep things you've probably you've probably experienced this you've probably experienced this but another experience I've had is I want to show my kids a

film a great classic film and they're wondering they're weighing whether or not they want to invest two hours in this movie you know versus something else they might want to see because it's they are only allowed to watch stuff on the weekends and so it's it's one of our two shots that we get this weekend and so they'll often say to me what's this movie again and I'll say it's Lawrence of Arabia or it's this they'll say well let's see the trailer and I'll say no I don't want to show you the trailer they watch trailers and it's not just them it's their friends they watch trailers to decide if they're going to see a movie rather than just having the movie unveiled and I try to tell them you've got a pretty good percentage here I'm showing you one of AFI's top 100 movies of

all time right but I am stunned at how many times I go and see a movie and I'm sitting through the trailers and they tell me everything that happens in the movie everything I know and it's their way I guess of covering their asses and saying well we want them to make you know to be sure they know that it's got a really cool ending and that they're on earth all the time but I think today they would show you I think today they would show you the Statue of Liberty in the sand in the trailer for Planet of the Apes I do think that it's uh it's it's something that it is a is a very odd sort of maybe it's because when a movie isn't working they do it more often because it's like let's just throw it all on the screen and see what it's a it's a really annoying thing that I don't think

anyone anyone likes I think people at the studios know that it's it's not the smartest way to go and yet still it seems to be something that you feel like you've seen the movie when you've seen the trailer I I'm amazed because you know there it's such an art form it's such a weird specific art form when when a really good trailer is cut together it's amazing how how footage is used like for a great trailer editor knows how to find something that might frankly not even have much meaning at all in a scene in a movie or not it might not even be used in the film itself looking at sort of the dailies but like they know like a certain look a certain turn like I've seen so many movies where the trailer's totally got me and then you're watching the movie you're like

eh you know the trailer was so promising and you realize it's like these people who can edit trailers well it is such a fucking genius you know art form that's I don't think it quite you know appreciated the way it should be because it really is an amazing thing when there are a lot of bad ones we've all seen a lot of bad ones but a really good trailer for a movie is so like it the promise of what that is is so amazing and then often you go to see the movie you're like oh man I wish that I wish the trailer editor had more more of a role in the movie uh well I'm gonna reference uh a movie that I thought where the trailer was amazing and it and then the movie lived up to it and it's a movie uh that you worked on cloverfield and I was in the theater when that when I saw that trailer

if you haven't seen the trailer if you just want to refresh your memory go back and look at that trailer that trailer you never see the monster you never see the creature that I remember being in a theater and that trailer running and people bursting into wild screams and applause and being just delighted and then whatever movie we watched didn't match that had to follow the trailer couldn't match it uh and ironically that trailer involved the Statue of Liberty uh not ironically coincidentally but um well so we had the idea for that trailer while we were writing the script and I literally I remember calling up uh the head of Paramount at the time with Brad Gray and saying I'd like to shoot this trailer and and get it on uh on Transformers if we could and and and not even

put a title for the movie and have it be something that no one has heard of and in this sort of moment of everyone knowing everything about what's coming finding a way to surprise people you know was exciting so they actually let us shoot the trailer before we shot the movie we actually shot the trailer as a separate piece yeah and then we were cutting together the trailer as we were prepping the movie and then the trailer was out there while we were shooting it was a very bizarre way to go and it was weirdly it was the opposite of we have this date we have to get the movie done it was sort of like my asking the studio if they wouldn't mind letting us do something that was fairly unheard of and and you know we had the date that the movie was coming out was gave us

plenty of time but it was a really fun thing and Matt Reeves who directed the movie and and Drew Goddard who who wrote it you know and Brian Burke producer we were all there like working on the trailer as if it were the movie you know it was this very strange weird little like shooting a commercial basically but we knew it was going to be in the film so it was sort of a way of using it was it's a terrifying trailer that tells you nothing but at the same time tells you everything you need to know and I remembered that trailer ending and thinking I've got to I don't care if there's a baby a child of mine is scheduled to be born that day I'm seeing that movie I have to see that movie and this leads me to my next thing that I think I know that you're a such a

student of film but this way of trying to keep mystery you've done a brilliant this right your career but it's just keeping an air of mystery at a time when people are being given too much information and I remembered on Lost you guys could just show especially early in the series you guys could just show palm trees a bunch of palm trees and you'd hear a noise but that's all you got and that was scarier to me than any effect that cost eight hundred million dollars do you know what I mean I don't know what that is I do think that that that one of my you know one of my favorite things you know is the use of sound as like what I've always wanted to do is a a movie that that took place in a in a setting that didn't allow you to see much of what was going on and

we were talking about Cloverfield we actually you know the first script someone read it and it read like a you know a 200 million dollar movie and we were talking about how we actually wanted to show very little and because of the the video camera we were of course limited which was helpful but the idea of what you would hear and and the idea of the aftermath of something you know when I first talked to Steven Spielberg when he and Tom Cruise were going to do War of the Worlds and I remember having a talk discussion with them about what what they were thinking about and one of the things that Steven was saying how he really wanted to use the you know sound and and and and see very very little of you know the destruction these sort of tripod aliens coming down and I

just I love the idea of using you know using sound or you know like again I think you think about something like Jurassic Park one of the images that you you think of is the water and seeing those you know those concentric circles with with the audio of the the thump of the t-rex coming and that's as impressive and as impactful as any CG shot and by the way the amazing thing about that movie is when you look at that film I think the number is 62 visual effect shots in that movie which is nothing compared to the literally 2000 visual effect shots you might have in a in a sort of current blockbuster there were 62 CG shots I mean they had the the giant animatronic puppets but those were limited and could do you know but when you think about how sort of judiciously

those things were used and the impact each shot had we're now so sort of used to getting bludgeoned by so many different shots and I'm sure I'm as responsible as anyone for that bludgeoning but that that idea of just like becoming immune to or or numb to all that kind of imagery it's earlier it's interesting earlier when you were saying how you were wondering about you know how do we surprise people today and and with kids knowing all the you know endings before they even see the movies you know where I thought you were going was like you know how do we make people how do we impress people how do we make people feel anything anymore given the fact that we can sort of show them everything and I'm really interested in that like in a way I feel like you know I just saw

you know I just saw this this movie over the weekend it was incredibly sweet it's called The Minari and it's this beautiful sweet story about these Korean immigrants and it's just a really beautifully done movie that A24 is putting out and it was it was more emotionally impactful you know and there was it was a very humble sweet film you know and it was just like there was just something about seeing a movie that was really that really you know had a an emotional punch you know that didn't have any of the stuff that in a way can be considered a crutch or or you know you think it'll be spectacle and therefore it'll be impressive and a lot of times it actually does the opposite you know I know you mentioned Spielberg and I know that

you've worked with him and you guys are friends I think one of the most famous examples of creating mystery is in Jaws which I've always heard was an accident that he wanted to show the the shark more but because of technical reasons he couldn't so you don't really see the shark for a long time during the film I was blown away by that because when you watch it now you realize how effective it is how powerful it is to not see the threat and to have this mystery and this sense of I think it's over here I think it's over there it darts in and out of the frame you get little glimpses of it yeah but to think today about trying to make a movie where you don't really show you don't really see the threat until I don't know if it's the third act or close to the third act is pretty stunning

yeah I agree it's funny that the thing I mean obviously the the the story of sort of the shark known as Bruce you know not working is a is a famous story and it's it really did help the movie like you say and it reminds me of two things one is the other things that like they thought they were going to do that ended up not being necessary and and actually improving the movie one day I was I was with Steven in his office at his home and he's got a shelf of all these leather bound scripts of his movies and I I saw Jaws I said do you mind if he's like no no no so I took it out and I opened it up I opened to a random page and on this page somewhere in the middle of the script there were three lines from Hooper and Brody and Quint that were all crossed off with

blue pen and this was his script that he had on the set yeah and right next to these three lines that were crossed out that were sort of generic lines was in pen written Brody we're going to need a bigger boat wow and it was like the idea that that that that there was a on an onset decision to say you know what instead of those three let's just have this one and it's that and the other he reminded me of is in in Alien the original Alien there's this um one of the deleted scenes Veronica Cartwright who plays one of the crew um you know in a terrifying scene where she's being killed and I and it was a cut not a cut scene but it was a shot that was deleted that was this very wide angle shot down the corridor of her standing there and the Alien kind of standing up

and it was literally the least scary thing you've ever seen in your life like it was like it was not remotely scary and this is like one of the great scary movies in the history it was like an old man getting out of a sofa it was like wait a minute wait a minute I'm gonna give you such a bite I'm gonna with my teeth I'm gonna come out and snap um but it was it was this and you realize like you know the point of view the perspective how critical that all those decisions are and seeing a shot directed by one of the great directors in one of the great movies and you go oh they chose not to use that of course they chose not to use that but like you just realize how close we all are to you know even the greats can make can make

you know decisions that they think will work and they later if they're lucky they realize not to use them yeah yeah there's I think it may be apocryphal but I'm pretty sure that I think they shot like three I don't know if they shot them but they had three possible endings for Casablanca and one of them was Humphrey Bogart, Tina Gerbergen, baby I'm coming with you fuck the French guy and they get on the plane and you know it's just like he can find someone else not the same yeah and then the plane takes off and kooky music plays uh Yackety Sacks I think Benny Hill theme that would have been great yeah they they missed an opportunity but uh I think I think in Casablanca with and the war got one and Hitler got beat and that's all you need to know

Rick and do you want to follow their story more it's Casablanca too uh you know I always wonder how people come at you know the different angles they they come at things and I didn't know this when I first met you and I found out later on that initially the way you were approaching all this was through music I mean you were very interested in music you were very interested in in how things in in scoring or how things were is that is that true or do I just have lousy information I love music and I'm always working on on on different tunes and I've done theme songs to some of the shows we've done and um when I was growing up there were no VHS tapes there were no DVDs or or Blu-rays or streaming it was like obviously like like with you like you saw what was on

TV or what was in the theaters and and that was it you know like it or lump it and uh so for me what I would do is uh I would buy uh there was a record store uh nearby where I lived in in in westwood that sold uh records that were they were sent out from like a sort of as as sort of samples that were sold inexpensively so they were like they had little holes that were punched out at the top corner uh and you could buy them for for two bucks and and all the soundtracks were there you know none of the sort of hit records but all the soundtracks so I would buy soundtracks like every weekend and I'd go home and I'd listen to soundtracks because I could tell what the story was based on the the music and looking at the names of the the tracks and so I

would lie there with with my headphones on like we have on now and I would be just you know looking at the soundtrack uh album cover and reading the the the names of the tracks and sort of whatever information it might have on the back and I'd feel like I'd be watching the movie because you know certainly with with with composers like John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, you know Maurice Jar, there were certain people that like they just they told the story in their music and and so I always loved that and I remember like we had a little stand-up piano at home and I would like you know sort of bang on the piano and sort of pretend those were cellos or whatever and and people would walk by and be like stop you know um but in my mind it was like I could hear you know such a nurturing household

exactly but what I would later what I what I learned was that there were you know there were these things called synthesizers and samplers uh and and I couldn't afford them until later but when I finally got my hands on them the idea that you could create most any sound you know allowed me to begin to to make music uh never as good as or as well as I you know I'd like or as good as as people who I know who do it for real but I love it like crazy and um I actually even did did music for a movie when I was a teenager that was called Night Beast that was a a movie actually released by Troma um and it was and it was this it was it was Night Beast but made by this uh man named Don Dohler who was a a a director in Baltimore he was sort of the horror equivalent uh to John

Waters uh and and he would do these crazy pretty DIY horror movies that were sort of wonderful in their weird little way and um so and he he he made these magazines called like Cinemagic like as a kid there was no internet either so it was like I'd learn how to do animation or you know stop motion stuff or titles or whatever through these magazines and and I remember writing a letter to him and he was like yeah I'm working on a new movie and like oh wow I I'd love to do something I'd do he's like you want to do the soundtrack I was like sure I'm 16 so I ended up like doing you know doing some of the the music for that movie and it was like it was my my first break that's fantastic it's either a really good sign or a bad sign when a 16 year old just randomly

writes a film maker and he goes like sounds good hey why don't you do the soundtrack and get it in here it's so funny I I I wish this story had a better ending and you'll see why but when we were shooting the the the pilot for Lost and we were on the the airplane set and I believe it was probably the same airplane set that you and I shot on yeah and and during lunch break these people were coming to like look and and and location scout the airplane as if it's not a fucking airplane it's an airplane anyway so they're looking to and and the person who was scouting was Roger Corman oh wow and I went up to him I'm like mr Corman there's film in the cameras if you want to film anything you want right now go ahead because he's the kind of guy who would shoot anything anywhere and just oh yeah

steal shots and do things you know and I just you know he didn't and there's no ending to the story other than uh I met Roger Corman thank you you know I uh I did get my shot in film which was do you remember the name of it was it shark shark native shark depose shark depose yeah can I forget how this even came about but this was about 10 years ago they said I just you know crazy stuff comes over the transom and then one thing was would Conan like to do a cameo in Roger Corman's shark depose and I said you had me at would Conan like to because I don't do anything no I was I was just Roger Corman you're kidding is he gonna actually direct it and they said yes so I I went to the beach which I think is actually all roads lead back to everything uh the the same beach where

they shot uh the ending of plan of the apes I went to that beach and my job was to play Conan O'Brien as an insufferable uh I'm wearing a I'm I'm wearing a blue blazer and a yachting cap and I have an assistant remember I had an actress playing my assistant Sonia do you remember this right yeah she was fanning you or she was fanning me like I'm some absolutely out of touch and I have a and some kids are playing volleyball and they knock the volleyball and it hits me and I jump up and I start screaming at them I'm Conan O'Brien do you have any idea that you know I'm one of the top television comedians in the and as I'm screaming you see a long tentacle come out of the water oh come on that's fun it goes up it goes up my ass out my mouth knocking the cap

off my head and then uh it rips my head off the head rolls over to where the volleyball players are they pick it up and continue playing volleyball with my severed head and I have this footage yes oh I'll I'll get it to it's one of my favorite oh my god yeah it was just one of those I think I was there for four hours and I've never been more certain that I was doing the right thing I've never been more certain that my time I've taken long walks with my son and daughter where I've talked about life and my time with Roger Corman was much better spent how was it he was great yeah he was terrific he seemed like he was in what an icon that guy yeah yeah really just absolutely just absolutely unbelievable experience which you know I don't know if you're able to step outside

your situation now I know you know you to be a very uh humble guy but you've now created that kind of you know body of work where you're gonna have you already have people I mean the times that you've even passed my children they wonder why you would ever spend a second with me they put you on they've yes they do they put you on such a pedestal and then they're like can you believe the JJ Abrams you know I know that it is it is the format of you know the podcast to have people say my name is and I feel this way about being your friend but the reason I do feel exceedingly lucky is not just because you know obviously you're a lovely guy and I know this is you know sounds sycophantic and stuff but what what I really truly believe despite everything that has

happened in the nearly 30 years which I cannot believe that have passed the fact that I was sitting in that audience on that day watching you as this young comic come out to you know begin and this kind of like this this crazy sort of precipitous moment for you like like what it was going to be you know and and to get to see and have that audience electricity and to feel like oh here's a guy who's about to launch into the the consciousness and sort of the you know into pop culture and the history of this this country and and to have you be someone that now I get to know and and and hang out with and it just it really truly does make me feel like a lucky guy so I can't thank you enough for uh wow for that that's amazing um well that's very nice of you to say I know there's a movie

role coming how could there not be just that surgery just deal with that vein and you're good I will not I will not torture you any longer just absolutely delight and you've made everybody snap to attention when they heard that you were coming on the podcast which is very nice honor thank you so much for asking let's do this again tomorrow later today would be better okay good I'm available okay hey it's been a while since we've reviewed the reviewers uh are you guys up for that I'll admit I'm always somewhat guarded I tense up a little bit I've feared criticism since I was a child I'm always worried about what someone's gonna say but let's do it you know that I'll take care of you

I screen these oh okay well I hate when you say that because that makes me think there's horrible stuff I'm not hearing so I mean I'm screening all the praise it's just sometimes it's too laudatory and it has to be taken down to just faint or normal praise but there is not a single critical one of these you're kidding but this is going to be something I think about at three o'clock in the morning because that's when I wake up I wake up at three and I go through my uh rosary beat of self-loathing click one beat at a time anyway let's go let's do it okay okay subject I need to know three exclamation marks five stars by j kawai nine I'm sure that I'm not the first to ask this but what do your sponsors think of the way you go about reading

their advertisements personally your take is so hilarious that I don't even fast forward through the ads which is saying a lot do not ever change which I'm sure by now is a safe bet Sona and gorely the show wouldn't be the same without both of you hey I know that Conan will disagree but that's really what makes him so special Malama Pono take care did he say porno at the end no porno oh okay I'm sorry I'm sorry I thought he said my love is porno why did your mind go there please I didn't mean to lower what was otherwise a a lovely sentiment until he delved into pornography in the end I um I'm glad I'm glad they like the way I read ads I read ads the only way I can which is I can't I cannot read straight copy I have no idea what advertisers think about

what we're doing and I'm not trying to be um I'm not trying to sound cool or anything but I honestly don't care I just I really don't care I mean I love doing the podcast and and and and I love that the ads are able to sustain us but when there's copy that sounds blatantly ridiculous coming out of my mouth I have to say something about it so I can tell you a little bit that there's a certain amount of removal so there's the advertisers then the stitcher people that have to collect all that and then very gingerly ask for uh for things to be edited out because they were too too sharp a commentary like what um obviously you didn't ask my permission first so this is a revelation you're editing me out uh editorially without consulting me you're not

even in this podcast that's probably why it's doing so well I'm shocked you still have sponsors if I'm going to be blunt well no well first of all I think one of the reasons we have sponsors is that uh I don't think I'm saying anything people don't know the podcast has been very successful it's listened I think the latest figures are over nine billion people just in America alone which means yeah which is hard to do in a country of only 345 million people and also people do listen to the ads they don't fast forward through them so they are hearing the name of the product occasionally they're hearing me rail against the product right but you still walk away remembering the name of the product and as any advertiser will tell you that's nine tenths of the battle

that is why I think uh advertisers are sticking with us so I am curious when I can just imagine gorely mopping his brow with a vintage don't say I love how your improv is just no are we improving yeah yeah this isn't improv I'm laying out there that you are a fop oh no no you are a cloth handkerchief carrying fop and you know and every now and then you're talking to somebody at a mattress company and you're mopping your brow going no please go stick a dick you weird clown what the hell is going on dick a dick you weird clown stick a dick I don't get that at all that is I love that I don't either it just came out let's move on that's insanity stick a dick you weird clown and you're the guy who's editing me that's what I love who's editing you the guy you just

shouted stick a dick you weird clown is editing me out of my own ads stick a dick you weird clown this is from the person who's editing me unbelievable well anyway uh I hope you don't back down too much gorely I hope you stand up for yourself and I'm on your side right there's been a couple of times where I've sort of in a fun way implied that the product I'm promoting will kill you um I think it might be something along those lines yeah and maybe you've had to edit those out right yeah you also have disdain for anything computer related that you don't understand you automatically just bash it so I don't think the computer will be part of the future I think it's a fad oh I do I think the I do think personal computing and I think most of the advances

in the last 15 years will melt away and we will go back to the abacus uh wooden beads you'll see this word one day gonna look back on this and go what was that thing we did where we crunched a lot of information down using silicon chips oh I don't remember click clack click clack enjoying your abacus I have more than one oh then are you enjoying your abacai I am father there that's the future I envision that was just you proving you know the plural of abacus yeah so okay let's do another our favorite podcast five stars by m madeline hi I'm nine years old and I listened to your podcast I think you are so funny hashtag love it oh nine she's nine I'm so glad she's gonna hear stick a dick you weird clown I just don't think a nine-year-old should be

listening to this pod I mean I'm first of all what is her name Madeline yeah Madeline uh that's very nice I'm sure you're hearing some things on this podcast that are frightening or confuse you and I apologize for that it's weird because it has a content that a nine-year-old shouldn't hear but the maturity level of it is about a nine-year-old yeah true yeah it's one of those weird it happens very rarely that things line up that way well I think I'm glad that Madeline surely clearly has very good taste and I just hope sometimes I know that we we delve into areas that maybe a nine-year-old shouldn't be hearing about and I blame Sona for that because she is well you're kind of you're a filthy dirty person but I don't know Brian needs a friend so I need

a friend who doesn't have their mind in the gutter whoa good one would you say to me would you say good I was mocking that comeback that you had because it was terrible I said ho ho good one like ah yes you're proving that my comeback was no good yeah the old haha good one Madeline now is changing her mind a nine-year-old is being driven away from the podcast she switched to Joe Rogan she's now pumping iron Madeline's gonna have arms for days soon she took out these guns that's nice that's nice I'm glad that she's listening to the podcast and maybe she'll learn a lot I know that we don't know she won't well no I she learned the plural of abacus is abacai so no one learns anything from this podcast this podcast has nothing educational

whatsoever about it this this podcast is the equivalent of lead in the water supply you see it shortens your attention span you you start to drastically lose IQ you have difficulty sleeping and eventually your empire crumbles in this case Rome hey I also got some bad news for you uh oh the plural of abacus is abacus is damn it oh you're a moron I'm kidding that was not you know what I love though I first of all abacus is terrible I would like to move and I will I think we should contact the Oxford English dictionary people and I'm serious about this I think we should contact them and say we want the plural of abacus to be abacai isn't abacai a great name sounds like someone from the bible yeah we're gonna start a movement a very important movement to change the plural of

abacus the word abacai puts me in mind of a story as Abraham Lincoln used to say that puts me in mind of a story um you all remember the uh dean of the actors studio James yeah he was a frequent guest on our late night show and did lots of bits for us and was a really terrific guy and a great raccoon tour of the old school and his lovely he passed away recently which was sad but he lived this amazingly full long life and his wife's name was catakai and I met catakai and she was lovely and I once I think it was Elaine's restaurant uh I got to have dinner with James Lipton he invited me to dinner I think we did something together and then he said let's off to Elaine's and so the next thing I knew I made Elaine's restaurant for the first time and I'm eating with James Lipton and

there are all these paintings and stuff on the wall and different pictures of different interesting people and sketches and there was a painting of a woman up uh behind James Lipton and he's chewing away at his pork chop and he said to see that beautiful nude woman that painting on the wall behind me and I said yes and he said do you know who that woman is oh no and I said no and he said it's catakai and I dropped my fork and said that's the fucking greatest line that anyone has said to me in my life I'll never forget James Lipton had I think he had tied like a old school had put like a a napkin around his his neck you know his throat to keep the food from getting on his suit and he was chewing and he said that woman behind me do you see her and it was this

very attractive nude woman and the the painting was maybe I don't know 20 30 years old and he went I said he said you know her identity and I said no I don't know what it's catakai as God made her oh my god what a fantastic moment in my life and his wife was sitting next to him just sort of like nodding going yeah okay James maybe not tell everyone that that's a nude portrait of me oh the catakai is God made her if people take one thing away from my podcast I want it to be that Madeline nine-year-old Madeline if you're listening right now oh I may not know the plural I may not know the plural of abacus is abacus is which it should not be but I do know this that when you see a nude portrait in what's the now closed Elaine's restaurant you should say catakai as God made her

and then take a big swallow of a pork chop hey listen can I make one appeal if you're a fan of this show and you see me out in the world because I am out there I walk around and I'm easy to spot uh if you say to me catakai as God made her I will give you ten dollars oh my god you want that in this podcast I don't know I that could have been a very foolish thing I just said you let me know this that's crazy ten dollars I could lose a lot of money yeah that's don't do that what do you do okay don't do that I'm gonna actually say this if you see me out in the world listeners to this podcast if you see me you know me when you see me right sonna yeah you're a giant uh white man with red hair and it's very easy to spot you okay anyway if you see me if you see me all I ask you to do

is shout catakai as God made her and uh I will greet you very happily Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Sonamov Sessian and Conan O'Brien as himself produced by me Matt Gorely executive produced by Adam Sacks and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf theme song by the White Stripes incidental music by Jimmy Vivino our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples the show is engineered by Will Bekton you can rate and review this show on Apple podcasts and you might find your review featured on a future episode got a question for Conan call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message it too could be featured on a future episode and if you haven't already please subscribe to Conan O'Brien

needs a friend on Apple podcasts stitcher or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded this has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf