Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Jake Gyllenhaal

Episode Date: October 11, 2021

 Actor Jake Gyllenhaal feels so many things about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Jake sits down with Conan to talk about kindness in entertainment, shooting his new film The Guilty on a contained set, and why performance is so integral in maintaining mental health. Plus, Conan and Sona offer words of encouragement to Matt Gourley as he prepares for impending parenthood. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is Jake Gyllenhaal. And I feel so many things about being Conan O'Brien's friend. So many people say either a gratuitous, I feel great, but they're not even looking at me when they say it. But in this case, I was staring into your soul, wasn't I? You saw into my soul and I saw horror in your eyes. Hey there and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. This is a very exciting day for us because as you all know, my trusty assistant, Sona

Movsesian, has been on maternity leave. She gave birth to twin boys a couple of months ago and she is back with us today. So Matt Gorley, join me in welcoming Sona Movsesian back to the podcast. Sona, how are you? Hi. Hi. We did it. Welcome back.

You did it. First of all, I have to say, you dropped by the other day. You didn't record, but you dropped by with your husband, Tak. And you look fantastic and everybody was remarking on how amazing it is. You gave birth to twins and you just look absolutely stunning. And you're also very happy. You seem like a very happy person. You must like these little critters.

I like them a lot. I love them a lot. I think they're really cool. I think that they suck out everything that I've got to give. Jesus. They take everything from me. Hold on a second. I'm saying that in, does it not come in a loving way?

No. It's covering all the bases. Yeah, it really is. I'm taking everything from you. I think that I can't gain weight because they take everything from me. I feel that the same way about my representation, my agent and manager, it's the same thing. And they literally drink from my teats. Oh, God, come on.

They do. And sorry, I just want to put that image out there. But no, so wait a minute. You have these two boys and you sent me pictures all the time. And it's because I keep, my wife has said, I've never seen you this excited about any kids including our own. And it's true. That's nice.

Every time you send me pictures, they're hilarious little fellows. Yes, they are. We dress them up like little men. Yes, it's funny. I love that. You dress them up. They look like they're two little men that would sell you aluminum siding for your house. And so I'm really just delighted.

And it's Mikey and Charlie, right? Mikey and Charlie. Yeah, they're very sweet. They're two months now and then they're almost three months. That's how it works. And guess what? Then four is going to come after that. Oh, thanks.

Okay. Zing. Yeah, you got me good. Pretty good, huh? No time is best. No time is best. We're back. I'm sorry.

I'm just not going to sit here while she says it's two months now, but then it's going to be three. I'm not going to let that go. Well, it could be the beginning of two months or it could be the end of two months as close to the end of two months and it's almost three months. Good to have you back, Sona. It's great to be back Conan. I'm what a warm welcome this is.

The magic is back. Yeah, this was a joy already. So are you getting any sleep? No, none. No, Mikey does this thing that's really fun where he wakes up every hour and we don't know why. So we're just, we're right there with him. Charles is just sleeping through it all?

He's just sleeping like a baby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that term sleeping like a baby really doesn't work because anyone who's had a kid knows that's what our kids were like. They were up every 40 minutes. And so I never understood the terms sleeping like a baby because that would mean, that would mean an awful, awful night's sleep.

Now this is important to bring up, Sona. This is craziness, but Matt Gorely, this is his last day because he's leaving because he and his lovely wife, Amanda, are having a baby. Yes, I know. So this is the changing of the guard. I know this is insane just as Sona arrives, Matt leaves. Yeah. Matt, tell us your situation.

This is going to happen in about 10 days, you think? Yeah, that's the due date from when we're recording this. I think by the time you hear this, this baby's out and right just out in the world getting it done. Right. Got a job. This baby's going to get a job immediately and get this country moving again. Yes, selling aluminum siding, joining Sona's business.

It'd be great if your baby was born and immediately got work with Sona's twins and they just were working really hard. Oh, we already planned that my daughter's going to marry one, if not both of her sons. One of them, yeah. Yeah. I want them to have little briefcases. That'll be cute. Do they make little briefcases for boys?

They should. They should. And guess what? For girls. Yes. Sorry. I saved Conan. That was a good save.

Yeah. Wow. That was close. Yeah. Yeah. I'm getting the progressive message out there that women can also have jobs. Man, am I on the cutting edge? Hey, and guess what?

It occurred to me the other day that a woman can also have a job. Good job, grandpa. Wait. Nice save. So is it just going to be me and you? Well, I don't know. Adam, help me out here. I don't know what Matt does.

So. Help me out. I don't know either. He can probably just go on maternity leave, right? Paternity. And then don't we just doesn't, we're done with the thing. He presses record before we start and then when we're done, he presses the record button again and then he presses a button and it plays for everybody, right?

No. Oh. Well, educate me, Matt. Oh, yes. What is it, Adam? No. That was more or less what I understood. No.

Adam knows what side his bread is buttered on. Real smart, Adam. See, Adam's going to survive this business. No, Matt, honestly, I'm sure that it's going to be terrible without you. I don't know what it is you do, but I'm told you're very good at it. Well, I don't know either. I think you're going to find how immediately replaceable I am and probably not even ask for me back.

I think my secret is out and the jig is up. So who is replacing you? Is this someone I know? Yeah, Brett Morris, who's the former engineer at Ear Wolf, the master of ceremonies there as far as all things technical at Ear Wolf, who's now struck out on his own, will be replacing me for the month I'm gone. I hear he's the best. He's supposed to be the best.

He is, to be honest. No, he's a legend in the podcasting world. He is, yeah. I don't know how much he's going to be a present voice on the show, but behind the scenes he's going to be doing all that I do, which is the editing and that sort of thing. That's what I was asking about. Sorry. I just wanted to jump in.

I don't care about the technical stuff. I don't hear. Really? I thought you loved the technical aspect of podcasting so much. I'm more like... I don't care either. You should hear this thing. It's a mess.

What's going to happen with the banter on the show? Because if it's just you and me, isn't that exhausting? I mean, wouldn't people hate that? Yeah, no one's going to break it up. You guys are just going to fight each other into a dust cloud. Yeah, it's going to be a lot of like... Well, you don't really break it up, Matt. You always come in on sonoside.

Yes. Always. You always come in on sonoside. Sonoside of right. So all we have to do is, hey, before you go on maternity leave, why don't you just record... Paternity. Paternity. Well, I'm not sure who's everybody in this situation.

Before you go on your parental leave, why don't you just record sonoside. I disagree with Conan. Sonoside the best. Conan sucks. And then we'll... I'll just have a little button and I'll just push that and people will think it's the same podcast as always. That's a great.

I'll give you a couple of wild lines of those right now that you can use. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Here we go. Sona's absolutely right. Once again, I agree with Sona. Are you wearing a crocodile tooth hat?

Shut up, you weird clown. Sona, I got your back. You go, girl. High five. Up high. Down slow. Give it up, my girlfriend. Oh my God.

Oh my God. It was awful. What just happened there? Here, hold my tweed hunting cap. That was for you, Conan. Oh, I know. It was for me. You'll need one of those.

Thanks a lot. I'll let you have one of those. I'd collect stamps if I didn't already have all of them. Yeah, see, it'll be like you never left. Well, Sona, we love that you're back. We really do. It's true. I missed you guys a lot and I'm really happy to be back.

We missed you too. Who's taking care of the kids right now while you're talking to us? I don't know. No, I think... They can take care of each other. I just duct taped them to the floor. They're fine. They're fine.

They're over there. They're doing something. Yeah, I don't know. Who cares? No, my parents are here, as they always are. So they're here. Although they're not here tomorrow, so that's going to be a fun day. Yeah, well, anytime you need me to fill in, let me know in advance.

Can you come tomorrow? Yeah, I said let me know in advance and make sure that I'm adequately paid for my time. Can you come tomorrow? Well, enough about these babies. I know that they feed the population and they continue the human race, but I've got more important things to talk about. Big do-ins here at the podcast today, my guest, is a talented actor who starred in such movies as Donnie Darko, Brokeback Mountain, Nightcrawler, and Spider-Man, Far From Home.

Now you can see him in the Netflix film, The Guilty. I really like this guy. I'm excited to talk to him today. Jake Gyllenhaal. Welcome. I like that you're taking your jacket off, too. You're disrobing in front of me. That's how...

I'm just so excited. I see what kind of friend you're going to be. And I'm like, I feel... No, no, leave your pants on. Leave your pants on for Christ's sake. Oh, you're not that kind of friend. Okay, that's okay. All right.

Well, wait a minute. Hold on. No, I... Wait a minute. Yes, I am. I owe you an apology because I'm well-known in the business for being a professional. I am always prompt. I am prompt to a fault.

And I had to go and get this COVID test today, and I was to meet you here at three. And I think they scheduled this COVID test somewhere across the Mexican border. But I got my COVID test positive. I've got Delta. Okay. I just wanted you to know. Oh, I know that already. It's okay.

I'm running a very high fever and I'm coughing on you. But no, and then I realized... I feel as good about being the last person we spent time with coronavirus. Coronavirus is last guest. And so I am racing over here and I realized I'm going to be like five minutes late. And I swear to God, people started doing the dumbest things like pulling right in front of me when there was a yellow light that I was going to run and stopping. And I'm practically yelling out the window, out of the way.

I've got a podcast with Jake Gyllenhaal, out of the way. I don't know why I would use that voice, but so I was horrified that I was late. And I apologize. And I come in and you were here conducting various business on your phone. I was deep into my phone. I was like, like headache deep into my phone. You were like doing your taxes on your phone. I was trying to multitask, which explodes my brain on my phone.

I had like seven apps opened and I was shifting between all of them. And I was... No, truthfully, I was so... I'm so happy to hang with you and I'm not alone in that feeling. That's nice. I know that because I saw all those people who wrote all this bullshit about you finishing your show and how like an honor, what an honor it was. I don't feel that way.

But I... Yeah, I saw the piece you wrote that said, I don't understand why people are saying nice things about me, Brian. I almost posted it and then I was like, I don't fucking care about this. The Wall Street Journal ran it and it got a lot of likes. I was just so happy to be here and I just feel so like you have to give people room to be late as safe. I feel that's important.

As long as you were safe and didn't hurt anyone. I think I killed at least two people getting over here. But it's nice because I always get a instant reaction when they tell me who they've booked for the show and when they said, oh, Jake Gyllenhaal is going to do it. I had an immediate association of you've always been very nice and you're a very funny guy. And seriously... I thought you were going to say your shiver ran up your spine. Yeah.

Well, that's again, probably the Delta. That's unrelated. It's unrelated symptoms, but you are very funny. I can tell you really like comedy and you've got a great dry wit. You've done a bunch of things on our show over the years. You participated in things and you were just delightfully fun about it. And I thought... Thank you.

That's kind of unusual. I mean, not every leading man has that ability. That's very cool. It's funny you say that because when I was waiting on my phone, what I said was, there's nobody funny in my life. I have nobody funny. Everybody's so serious. What are you talking about?

Is that true? Everyone's serious in your life? I mean, I have funny people, but like, yeah, I mean, like... Is your family funny? No. Like not really. Wow. I mean, they like humor.

Yeah. But there's a difference between... I know people that enjoy humor, but then when you talk to them, they themselves are kind of humorless. Yes. I mean, I don't think they're humorless. I just don't think, I think there was like a focus on being super earnest because they're also smart.

And I just wasn't as smart. And so I had to do something to make up for it. And they'll just like try and make jokes, I guess. But I never... I know, I mean a lot saying that, but I just... I love banter. I'm a banter. Yeah.

But you... I remember there was some sort of thing happening online where people were hotly debating Jake Gyllenhaal's actual height and you agreed to just come out from behind the curtain and be measured and I don't... You weren't a guest or anything you just said and you came out and it was so fun to say, well, let's get to the bottom of Jake Gyllenhaal and you just stepped out and you were measured kind of like a mannequin. You totally played it the right way.

And I remember that and a bunch of other things where you were just very willing to go with it. And I'm thinking about what you just said, which is growing up in a family where you're a little bit intimidated by how smart people are. I had that situation. My father's a very brilliant scientist, medical researcher. My mom was this very smart lawyer and my older brother, Luke, is just one of the... Still, one of the smartest people I know in the world.

And I remember just thinking, what's going on here? And I didn't think that I was even in the same league as these people. And so I remembered thinking, yeah, I think I'm kind of funny. You're talking about people who do actual jobs. My family still was like, my dad was a director, my mom was a writer, my sister was acting. They're actually smart. You're a family. That's like real smart.

You just really slammed every director. He wasn't smart. He was a director. But those are people doing like real things, not to say we don't do real things in the entertainment industry, but do we? But I think that there's something to, when you're particularly, I think, if you're a younger sibling, which is inevitably, I mean, to this day with my sister, I can't not do her bidding.

Literally, whatever she asks, I will go do. That's hilarious. And if I ask her anything, she's like, are you kidding me? Right. It's just the nature of... So she could say, I'm at the airport, come pick me up. I mean, there'd be no choice. And you'd say, well, there is an Uber.

No, I'd say I'm doing a podcast, I'm calling an O'Brien, and she'd say, come to the airport and pick me up. Yeah. You should say you're clearly not doing anything important. Get over here. Yeah. Were you a creative kid? Were you a kid that thought of yourself as very creative?

I know that you were interested in acting pretty early on. Yeah, I was. I was a pretty creative kid. I was always in continue to be a pretty abstract thinker. Sometimes maybe you'll be witness to it on the show, because it's sort of longer form. I tend to ramble and I tend to sort of move into abstraction kind of easily. And that's always been and was always my tendency. And I like it there, you know?

Like I like looking at the world in a non-concrete way, and have since I was a kid. My dad was like an assistant to a lot of different visual artists when he was in his teens and 20s and stuff. And so we did a lot of visual arts and playing with painting and sculpture and stuff like that. But I had a pretty, I also love sports, you know? Right. I really love sports.

I guess I wasn't that good at sports, but I could have been. You could have been. I could have been. I like to say that. I like to say I could have been good at sports. I could have been great. And then I just leave out the part where I say, if I had any athletic ability, I could have been amazing.

And people just think, huh, what are you talking about? You could have been. You could have been a swimmer. You could have been a basketball player very clearly. Well, the problem is because I'm 6'4", people were always saying to me, you're pretty good out there on the old basketball court. And I'd say, well, no, because you kind of have to care about basketball to be good at it.

And, you know, my father explained to me once, I think the issue with, and he's talking about my brothers and I and himself too, I think our issue is that to really excel in sports that involve a ball, one must really care about where the ball is at any given time. He's brilliant. Yeah. And he said, and actually this is true. He said, you really have to very much care where the ball is. And he said, I think our people don't really care where the ball is.

I mean, I remember thinking, oh, he's right. You know, Michael Jordan will dive through a plate glass window to get the ball and save it from going out and he'll make the shot. I would think, huh, that ball's kind of out of my way. So, you know what, I won't be venturing over there. But come to think of it actually now that you put it that way, I think that analogy is perfect because I do think there are moments where I have these feelings of, what are they all doing, you know, like, what are we, like, we all make these commitments to something

and we spend our lives doing it. And there's these moments and I'm sure that you've had them, like, what are you doing, right? Like, we're all chasing after a ball to get it into a thing, you know, like I'm putting on like some clothes I would never wear and playing a different part, like, what am I doing? Right. Just being of abstraction.

Well, I mean. By the way, what are we doing? Oh, you'll see, this is very important. We'll get to, because I want to talk about this film you made, which was absolutely riveting called The Guilty. But when you were saying that, I was thinking there is a scene and I'm not giving anything away where your character is really going through this intense thing and you've sort of almost semi-collapsed in a stall, a bathroom stall and you're just lying there on the

floor and having this intense moment. And what people forget, what I've experienced just in comedy is you'll have a moment where they're setting up that shot and you're having your intense moment and they'll say, okay, just chill, Jake. We'll be right back with you. We're going to reset the cameras and you're lying there dressed as a policeman in a bathroom stall and you have one of those moments of, this is my job. This is what I do.

And I've had those moments about a hundred thousand times where I'm in a hot tub on the back of a truck with Mr. T, you know, and we're driving down the highway and we're shooting a bit and in the reality of my own world, that makes perfect sense, but I keep stepping outside my body and going, how did I get into a hot tub with Mr. T on the back of a truck rolling down the highway? Yeah, but I think in your profession, particularly the job that you were doing, is that, and even now, it's like, you're in the same place and then they're just bringing, they're shuffling different people.

Yeah. I think about that sometimes when I'm walking, though most of the time I'm pretty much just thinking about myself and, you know, but I just want to clarify that, you know? I looked you up online and it says very self-centered. Yeah, so just so you know, I don't want to like, I'm veering from my normal mode, but I often think like, man, how does he, I mean, look, I love theater, I do theater, I've done 200, 250 shows of the same thing, same lines. And there are these moments where you're just out there and out of body moments where you're

just kind of going like, obviously you have all these thoughts of what am I going to have for dinner, this, that, that, you can do it with your hand side behind your back. But when you change the characters nightly, that would just trip me out. Well, the only thing that was strange for me is that I'm not playing anybody, I'm myself. So if people don't like what they see, there was no way I could say, don't blame me. That was the writer of Conan O'Brien who fucked up. When I read reviews that are like, when people didn't like me, they really didn't like me and they didn't like the essence of my sense of humor.

And so it was hard. I swear to God, I'm not an actor and have no qualifications in that world. And if I were an actor and things weren't going well and I was up on stage, I'd probably say to the crowd, hey, hey, no, I'd say, hey, I get it, you know, it's not me, it's the writer. And I could be doing Shakespeare. That's spoken like a writer, by the way, that's absolutely spoken by a writer because, you know, particularly when you, you believe somewhere that they are your words, you know, so that's

like, that's the narcissism sort of, right, right, but I am convinced I would say that if I was playing Hamlet in London's West End, I would probably go like, yeah, I know, you try making something with this crap. You know, I wanted to say because you started, you started this out like in such a, such a kind way. I think that of so many people, and you know, I've had the honor of being able to work and then come to your show for years, you know. How is that possible?

I mean, you mean to cut you off because I, but I think there's part of me that can't take a compliment. So I cut you off. But I was thinking how could, because I have known you for years and you're still so fucking young. What are you talking about? That's crazy. You know?

Well, I mean, it started when I was 11. Yeah, I think you were 11. Yeah. That's it. What? Okay, it makes sense now. All right. But anyway, go ahead.

I think you were going to say something nice. I was going to, but don't worry, I undercut it was something terrible, but I, I was always oddly comforted being on stage with you. Oh. Right? You've been on stage for so many years. You were kind. Oh.

Well, you know, it's interesting. You're trying to avoid that. Watch it. It's so great. Watch it. It's uncomfortable. Do you know what's interesting? Yeah.

He might just get up and walk out. Be careful. Yeah. Oh, he's gone. Conan's gone. Well, I'll put it this way. Like no matter how much I disliked you, which I like generally do all the time, you were always kind.

You got him back. You got him back. That's so much better. That's better. That's so much better. Oh, he might get closer. You hit your disdain so well and you were able to channel. Don't get me wrong.

I hate you, but you were always kind. I just want to make myself clear, you know. Now I'm really loving this. Now I'm, I've never felt better. You've actually hit the sweet spot like me. I have, I dreaded coming on the show because of just, just how terrible you are, but. You tried to kill me four times and then twice you tried to have me killed. You've killed hundreds of people on your way to see me and still you're always kind,

which is the thing about you that I think is just lovely. Yeah. I have to say it is a sweet deal that when people would come do the show, there was this machine that would bring, and it's actually still happening with the podcast, bring people to the show. It's called the car. Yeah, I know. It's called a car.

It's called a town car and not a very good town car. We had one and it was from the seventies, but, but there was this mechanism that brought these people to the show and it's my home court advantage and there's an audience there in a crowd. And so I used to get very confused because, you know, these beautiful women would come on the show. Like the most beautiful women in the world and the band would play and they'd come out and they'd lock eyes with me and, and they'd be so excited to see me and I'd be getting

all the signals that in another world meant this woman's in love with me. And then of course, the show was over there like, well, that was a lot of fun. I'll see you the next time I'm promoting something and I realized, I realized that, oh, I see what's happening here. It's the mechanism. It's the mechanism. And I loved being in that mechanism because what's wrong with having these really smart, funny, talented people just come, they're, they're fired out of a cannon at me and we

get to have a lot of fun. So. Yeah. But like, you're still kind. Sorry. But, um, you know, there are so many times or because I started young. The first show I ever did was Letterman. Right.

I did a movie called October Sky. Okay. It was written by a guy named Homer Hickam. He worked at NASA and he did all the stuff, but he also taught scuba diving and apparently taught David Letterman how to scuba dive. And so when his movie came out, Letterman said, I'll have the kid on the show from your movie because I was in that movie about him. And that was the first thing I ever did.

That's cool. It was so cool. It was also so intimidating. I would think so. So I think everything pales, obviously, you particularly in comparison to, no, but I, no, but like, I, there, there, it was just, I think for me, Dave was always kind. He was always really funny. We always actually had a really good time.

But I think every time I felt more like we were of similar generation, even though you're super fucking old. But I like. I have the, yeah, I have the essence of a young man. I don't know about that, but you, but you definitely. Okay. Let me try this. I have the forearms of a younger man.

I don't know. A sickly young man. That's right. I agree with that. I agree with that. You know what's funny? Ever. You mentioned, I just want you to, you mentioned that Dave learned scuba diving and all I can

think of is a really grumpy Dave sitting at the bottom of the ocean, being kind of a fun half and like fish, fish, avoiding him and trust me, I revere and love the man. But I just love the idea of fish being like, let's give him a wide burp and he's just sitting there. He's got a cigar coming out of his, out of his mask, blub, blub, blub, blub, blub. Octopus like, I'm just going to give him a wide burp. You know what I was thinking about this movie that I'm here to talk to you about for some reason was it's a hugely stressful movie in a lot of ways.

It's very stressful. Yeah. It's like a, it's a detective story. It's a thriller. It's all that stuff. And I tend towards things like that. But I think the reason why I also like comedy is because it's not dissimilar to that. How so?

I just find that there's a real darkness in so many of the comedians I love. Oh yeah. And like, I share that space somewhere else, you know, and I like to meet you there every once in a while. But you know what's funny? You were talking about the film that, that I had just referenced, The Guilty. And so what happens is it's, you know, it's not out yet, but they made it available to me on Netflix.

And the way I have to get it on Netflix when they make it available to me in a special screening is so hilarious. Because it basically involves me dismantling my television. You're not. You're not. This isn't you. No, no, no. It's not you.

But it's just the studios are like, no one must see this before it comes out. And so it used to be in the old days, you'd get a, you'd get a disc and you'd plop it in your, you know, in the slot and you'd watch the movie. And now it's, it's, no, it's available. Conan can watch it on Netflix if he does the following 75 things. And so you're basically. Can you sign in and sign back out? Did you have to do that?

Yes. And the thing is, so I am very tech phobic. So I had my assistant David and David, feel free to chime in, but I called him up and I said to him, David, talk to me like there's a monkey in an airplane and you have to get the monkey to land the airplane and you're at the control tower. So you were saying, okay, what are you on Netflix and they went, no, no, no, how do I do that? And you're like, what do you mean?

Do you like look down at your feet? Are you like, are you on Netflix? Yeah. I was like, the drug, yeah, I'm on seven cc's of Netflix. And then you got me to sign out of mine and then I had to go and sign into someone else's, right? And, and then we got through all these different, you know, imaginations when we go through all this maze.

And then finally, and I know anyone else doing it would have no problem. But when I finally saw your face pop up on the screen, I felt like I had cured cancer. I was so jubilant. I was like, yes, I see. Jay Chillinghall, this must be his movie. We did it. You know, my dad and I, I showed my dad the movie in the same way I asked, could they send it to my Netflix account and I was with my dad and he and I got into it in such a

profound, he was, I was like, okay, look, dad, I said, I sent it to your Netflix account. Let's just sign off, sign back in. And he, it was like, we just went back to me being a teenager. It was crazy. No, no, no. But I am, I am so sympathetic. What am I supposed to do? I, how am I supposed to do this?

I, I just scroll back. Oh, now I have to delete the whole thing. I typed all the words in and now it's like, dad, it's fine. You can just actually go back and delete is, no, I can't do that. I can't now. It was like, it was so, so relate to your dad and whatever kind things you said about me earlier would be immediately erased. If you had to talk to me for five seconds about how to log into a Netflix account, you

would lose it on me. All right, this is a true story. I have two kids. Oh God. No. Yes, I do. Come on. He procreated.

There's more of them. A 17 year old daughter and have a 15 year old son. And he has utter contempt for me because he's very smart about tech. And so they love to tell the story and this happened about seven months ago. I was trying to log into something on my phone. I had tried several times. I had hit a couple of snags. They finally told me what the right password was.

I put that in, but I think I put it in incorrectly and it said no. And I was like, that does it. And I threw my phone across the room and it hit the wall and I stormed out of the room and they, I don't lose it like that. I said, that does it. And I threw it and then I stormed out of the room. The problem is then you got to walk back in the room. So I'm out in the hallway like, oh, that was bad.

That was really bad. They're all laughing, but holding it in. And then quietly I just walked back in and picked up my phone and put it in my pocket and then left again. And they tell that story all the time of the idiot who can't, but the point is, I did it and how he watched it. And I watched the film and I had this thought, which is I don't know anything about the story of how the film was conceived or created, but it very much feels like a theatrical piece

because, and I don't want to give away too much, but you are a cop who we don't know much about what's happened. You're in some kind of trouble or an investigation and they've sort of parked you on the 911 line and your character is incredibly intense and tightly wound and there's clearly a lot going on and you get a call that leads you to really be concerned about some people and their safety and you're trying to put the whole thing together. And I was pacing in front of the TV, sort of in it completely. And then occasionally my wife would walk by and she start to go, so are you watching me?

You're just quiet. You're going to be quiet. You're just trying to figure this out. But there's something about the movie, it's so intense and the cameras right on you and you're in an enclosed space. I mean, again, I don't want to give anything away, but you are, it very much felt to me like this could be done in the theater. So we shot the movie in October, 2020 in Los Angeles.

So it was at the really one of the heights, obviously, of the pandemic. And it was right at the time when Los Angeles was threatening shut down every day. And we had decided that we could shoot the movie in 11 days. At first we thought we could shoot the movie in five days. Let's just literally not sleep and just shoot this movie. And it was really because it was contained, because it all takes place pretty much in one room and it didn't require a whole lot of extras. It was the perfect movie to do at that time, the safest movie in the most unsafe time to

try and accomplish. And so we set off on 11 day, this 11 day sort of adventure of shooting 20 pages a day like a theater piece. We split it up into five acts, 20 pages a day, 20 minute long takes. We set up, the actors were on, the people called in were on a zoom and they would be cued and they would call in and then I would answer the call and we'd rehearse it, we choreographed it in the beginning of the day and then we would play it like a play. And it does feel like that.

And at the same time, I think it does something cinematically that I haven't seen because everything I see in cinema is like people just throw everything in the kitchen sink into the frame nowadays. So all of the things I think we're used to in terms of tension is just taking things away to create tension is what this does. You have to hear things, you have to listen, you have to really pay attention to things going on in the background of the calls to understand what's happening and your gathering clues is an audience member like he's gathering clues.

Right. You're getting information over the line and you're figuring out, you're making assumptions, you're trying to get things to happen. It's very frustrating too because your character knows this is a life and death situation and no one else shares your intensity because you're working with people, they're like, yeah, we're working the 911, yeah, what is it? And you're like, no, no, this is what has to happen to save these people. And they're like, just chill, just chill.

You're running into some bureaucracy and red tape. Yeah. It also is someone who's used to being in action and that he can't be. And most of the people who are working jobs as 911 dispatchers, which is an incredible job when you think about it, something I didn't know was that they never really know, they don't usually get to know what happens at the end of their call. They get someone into stress or something's happening in real life and then it gets passed off.

They don't know if the person they've been talking to for 30 seconds to 30 minutes survives or sort of go home after a shift with that stress. That's crazy. I never thought about that because the only times they do find out is if it's a very famous case. Right. And then later on, we all watch the true crime documentaries and we see the shows where they play the dispatcher's call or the dispatcher knows what happened because it's one of the

most famous cases in the country. But other than that, you can get emotionally invested in somebody, really emotionally invested, who's maybe overdosed, you're trying to keep them going until the... And then you got another call. The ambulance is there, you got another call, and by the way, your burrito's ready. It just showed up. Totally. And I mean, you think about having to do that over years, I mean, one of the things that

this movie I loved about it and I loved about making it was it sort of took on the idea of mental health because the characters are all dealing with their own sort of forms of that. Yeah. It's a system and how hard it is for people in those situations to get help. So I liked that as an undercurrent of the story. I thought that was important and interesting because they are dealing with that every day. Now, this leads me to a question because I profoundly don't understand when you do a

role like this and I can see how this would take a toll on you because you have to get into, there's no way you can play this role and then just and cut and you walk away. I know the only way I can relate to it at all is when we would do shows, late night shows and we'd go to another city and there's a big crowd. I would take on the energy of the crowd and the music and the crowd and then everyone else would say, okay, the show's done. Let's all go back to our hotels and go to sleep because we have another one tomorrow. And I'd say, what the fuck are you talking about?

Totally. You have to go out and fight people in the street and lose quickly. But with my childish forearms, but that's the one clue I have that if you're this role you're playing of this detective, Joe Baylor in The Guilty, you dip into that for a couple of days and then what do you do? Does that follow you around for a little bit? Or is that something that you learn as an actor to shed that? I think it's a bit of both.

You're dealing in your own feelings and then you're dealing in not really controlling them. I don't think that's really the right word, but you're putting them into this space that is pretend, but you also have to set up boundaries and over years, I think you do. You have technique. It's why you have technique, right? And I think it can be confusing at times when things are going on in your life, that mirror thing, it depends, project to project. This one felt like a sort of exorcism.

Everybody was in this space where there was so much stress, where they were trapped in their homes, no one was outside. It was like this, there were all these feelings. Part of the reason I love doing my work is that it offers this really safe space to express feelings that would otherwise be considered disturbing if you were to put, if you were to throw your phone against the wall, if you couldn't make shit work out, if you do that in a scene, people go like, oh, amazing, Conan was amazing in that. And as opposed to Conan, Conan's just an idiot and an asshole.

Well, but like in truth, I think in truth, there is something about allowing yourself, people talk a lot about acting, being pretend, and I do think it's pretend, you have to have a great imagination and all that stuff plays into it. But I also think it's a really great safe space for you to put feelings that wouldn't otherwise be allowed to be expressed. It's why I think it's so important for kids to have an opportunity to express themselves artistically, whatever it is. And I mean, that's where you save your mental health, expression is where that happens.

But in terms of doing it for a long time and doing something like this, yeah, I mean, it's not easy in a way, dealing with the emotions of all these people, there are wonderful actors in it, particularly like Riley Keough, who's incredible and you know what's amazing is I don't know, I didn't see credits at the end, whatever they send me had no credits. Oh, I don't know, I heard these voices and the voices of the people coming through the line are really terrific and expressive. And I was wondering who are those people because they're really good. But I had no, I didn't know who they were.

I mean, it's Paul Dayno, Ethan Hawke, Peter Sarsgaard, Riley Keough. Jesus Christ. I know. Edward G. Robinson. Yeah, by the way. Hey, you're a monster. Lawrence Olivia from the dead. I don't know.

I like, it's like, because of the time, because we shot in short period of time, because we had, everyone was at home. So we had like Paul Dayno calling from Australia. I called him up and I said, Paul, we do a scene with me in this thing. You just have to call in and you work for a few hours and you do me a favor. I knew it was him because he called up and said, Hey, this is Paul Dayno. I've got a problem. And then you forgot to cut it out.

It was like, this is Ethan Hawke. I have a problem. I wish it would have totally ruined the movie and taken away all of its dramatic power. But I still think you guys should go back and reshoot it. Just subtitle under each one of those. This one's Ethan Hawke. Yeah. David Letterman calls in underwater in a scuba suit.

There is a great scene with Bill Burr calling up. Bill has like a scene for, he has like a minute long scene where he calls up. It's my favorite scene in the long run. Which one is he? He's like, it's a barracuda. Oh yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. But Bill's always yelling. He's in like a crowded bar. He's like, it's a barracuda. That's how he tells his kids to go to sleep at night. Sleep, sweet dreams, Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Yeah. The answer to your question is I think, yes, that stuff does affect you and it can.

But I also think that if you look at it as therapeutic, it can be really helpful. And I think that there are different ways of looking at it. And I remember years ago, Joanne Woodward saying, you can't go swimming out into the middle of the ocean without a boat or life jacket and expect to be able to come back safely or alive. If you're going to go out and you're going to go adventure and try and create some character and go out in the space. And you know, the whole Daniel Lewis always talks about like making a hull or whatever

it is. Yeah. Yeah. But if you don't have that, really, truly, if you don't have that safety and security of technique and craft to be able to say, I'm going to take, I have a boat. I have a life jacket. I'm going to go out there. I know I'm safe.

I'm going to take some risks. And then I'll know how to get home. Right. Right. I think that is what technique and craft bring to you as an actor. And I think it's really important and I do think it's something that has been lost more and more because people are just like talking about acting as a, as this sort of expression that's so dangerous that will take you to places that are so deeply fucked up and they're

going to like undo you when really, I think the meaning of it is really joyful and positive and it allows you to let those things out. And it's safe. Yes. Because we're, because when I say I have a lot of feelings about being Conan O'Brien's friend, I think that's okay. It's not, it's not okay. My analogy or even just my example in comedy, one of my favorite things to do was when I

was called upon to have a fake fight. And when I was a kid, my favorite thing to do was do fake fights and we have old home footage from the 1920s of me and my brothers fake fighting, trying to do realistic punches and us going flying and jumping on top of each other. And as an adult, getting to have a fake fight, whenever I would do anything that involved a stunt or something on the show where I'm attacked by, we did countless bits where I'm like attacked by ninjas and I fight them off and I'm thrown through a fake glass window, that was my favorite thing to do.

And I think it was because it was letting me be this completely other person. And it's something children do. We just love to let it all hang out. And I loved fighting ninjas and being very silly as a middle-aged man who shouldn't be doing that probably. But I loved it. But why not? I mean, that's the thing is like, I don't know why we get to a place in our life where

someone tells us we can't have that kind of fun. You can have that kind of fun in that space and you can do it and you should do that kind of stuff all the time. I mean, I think that's the playful nature of it. And it should be so playful. I mean, look, speaking for myself, I've taken myself very seriously. But in the end, the reason why I love acting is because it's so fucking playful. It's just so playful.

And if you really get into it, where you're pacing your living room going like, oh god, what's going to happen? That's fun for me. I was screening, watching this movie and I screened it for a couple of friends and my friend in the middle of it just like, right in three quarter mark, I was like, what are you doing? What are you doing? What's happening?

This is so fucked up. What's happening? And I was like, you know, I was like, that was, I was, I loved it. I was like, maybe you call that fucked up, but I loved it. I was like, that's fun for me and not to like, but it was great. It was like, that's why we do it. And again, as a safe space, sure, movies have real effects on people. Real effects.

Like I've been in movies that I would never say this out loud ever, but like have people have said have changed their life. Like I did Brokeback Mountain. It's like people come to me all the time and say, that movie made me make a choice and maybe tell my parents I was gay, whatever, you know, they have power, real power. That film in particular, I just know for a fact changed many people's lives and empowered them. And that has to feel like, what a gift, what a gift for you, what a gift for them, what

a gift for everyone involved that a movie could have that effect. I mean, I take no credit in that, except it's Annie Prule's idea who wrote the original short story and I think it was an idea that like needed to be expressed and needed to be told. And then I was just a part of it. It's an honor to be a part of it, but I can only be the sort of conduit of what people see me as in that character. It's not me, you know, but it is a piece of this idea that I think is beautiful and so

proud of being a part of. And yes, I think it did make some kind of difference. I went through a long period of time in my life where I was like, eh, it's just movies. Like who cares, whatever, you know, it should just be fun. But, you know, I think there is a real power to it and there is a responsibility to it. And I don't want to make any excuses about that anymore. And that movie definitely made me feel that way. Yeah.

One thing I can relate to you on is I love being silly and I love trying to make people laugh and make things light. But I take it very seriously and I think there's a lot of work that goes into it. And I think those things need to coexist, meaning you're very gifted actor who can bring real intensity to a role, but you also have the duality of I like to have fun and playing make-believe is a fun way to make a living and keep both things together at the same time. I think it's really important.

Yeah. Because I think you do it for long enough and you're lucky to do it for long enough. You definitely have to be able to change your perspective on it. I've been through periods of time in my life where I'm like, it's so everything, you know? Yeah. And it's just like, is it, I mean, in particularly this period of time in the world has made me go, wow, I've really, I've left so many things in my life, just I've taken so many things for granted.

I'm not alone on this feeling, I think, I hope, but like so many things in the pursuit of my job. And I've just gotten back to, this has got to be fun. You need your imagination. Like you cannot make it real. And maybe that answers some of your question is that if you'd make it too real, it's no fun anymore. And there's not, in my opinion, not a point in doing it.

If there isn't somewhere in it, even when you're like in a really intense scene, like you said on the floor, you know, in the bathroom, to me, I have this crazy amount of gratitude while I was there. And it's hard to tell you where the feelings come from. They don't coincide in that scene to the actual scene itself. I can't necessarily say, because my character is going through this thing, I'm feeling the same thing. I just had all these feelings and I just like let them out.

And that was fun. At the end of the day, it felt like shit. And I definitely like drink half a bottle of wine at the end of the day. Oh, that helps. Trust me. Yeah. But that's what I used to do after those big shows is I was like, you know what helps? Yeah.

So wine helps. Yeah. It really does. And like up to a point, you know. I haven't found that. No, I have. Definitely. When you say half a bottle, that's probably just about right, especially if you've got

work to do the next day. But I had the feeling and you made me think about this, which is the news has been so grim last year and a half, two years, and probably longer, but it just feels like things get more and more grim. And I keep having the thought of, what am I doing in show business? Shouldn't we run for public office? Oh, God. No.

Not that. But I, you know, can I be of help in some way? Like real practical help, as like you said, as seriously as we take ourselves, right? Other people definitely do not take us that seriously. Oh, God. No. So, and that's very important to be reminded of. All right.

All right. And so it's very important that we do the dumb shit so that they can have a great time. Thank you. I'm just thinking of no one's going to want to live in a house that I built. Hey, by the way, I built a really funny house. Brian built this house. I've never had a house before, but I don't want this fucking house. They're like, I think you throw your phone at it and it all topples down.

Yeah. Come comes down. Yeah. Electrical system, courtesy of Conan O'Brien. Well, listen, I want to make sure I get the word out. Because the guilty is really terrific and riveting, and you will have an easier time watching it on Netflix than I did. Well, when it comes out.

When it comes out. You'll just press a button. Yeah. You'll press a button. You will not need to do what I did. And even if you did need to do what I did, you'll figure it out in about six seconds. And you will have a hard time turning it off in some entertainment. Jake, you're a gentleman and you're a very funny guy, and you're also very, very good

at what you do. And I like calling you a friend. Makes me feel good. Thank you. That's so sweet of you. That is the highest compliment you could pay me. I think to be a gentleman is everything I try and strive for and fail at pretty much miserably.

I have a very distinct memory of you had been on the show, I think, once or maybe you haven't even been on the show yet. And I was way downtown in New York and you were with somebody. You were waiting about to go into a restaurant and you saw me and you broke off a conversation and came over and said hello and shook my hand. And I thought, what a polite young man. Like, I remember having that feeling like, what a polite young fellow. You just came over and said, oh, I just wanted to say hello to you and wish you a good night.

And I was like, oh, thanks, Jake. And then you went on your way. And that's just one of those little images I have in my head. I think it was down in the West Village or something. That's nice that it meant something to you. I... Oh, you don't remember. It wasn't me.

I'm... Well, guess what? It wasn't me either. No, but no. I was Kate Blanchett. I... Fuck everybody else, by the way. I like you.

Right? And I just, like, I can't help it. All you had to do was say, Conan, that was a big moment in my life. You didn't have to mean it. God damn it. Something about you is just like, I just want you to know, like, I've really tried to be your friend over these years. I just want to just, for the record's sake, also, I remember being at a party and I was

like, hey, like, we got to hang out, like, you know, and that's what I always feel worried about, right? Like, when you go up to somebody famous and you're like, hey, like, I just think something about... Right, right. Something about you makes me feel like we should be friends. But also, the other thing is, I have this thing... That's what crazy people do.

I never know, but I never know who means it and who doesn't, so I've had some famous people say to me... You think I'm just some beautiful woman coming on your show because I'm, no, I'm not. Just a beautiful woman. I do think she was a beautiful woman. Thank you. You're welcome. Actually, that is the biggest compliment you can give me besides gentlemen.

You're the most attractive woman I've seen today and I've seen them all. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like we could be friends. I think we can be. Yeah. Let's do it. Okay, cool. I'm never going to hear from you again, Emma. No.

But at least the people listening will think I'm a gentleman, so that's all that optics is all that matters, right? You're a favorite. You're a gentleman but a sociopath. All right, Jake, thank you very much for doing this. Thank you so much for having me. Okay, since this is my last day here and I'm off for parental leave, I thought maybe you guys could give me some advice.

You're both parents of two lovely children. I have no children. I'm a first-time father, getting at it late. What do I need to know? Getting at it late? That sounds like your dirty late night show that you do, getting at it late with Matt Goorley. Welcome to Getting At It Late, the show where we get at it late.

Yeah, so anyway, there's another T-shirt for the March department. Getting at it late with Matt Goorley. FCC shuts down Getting At It Late with Matt Goorley. 30 seconds into the airing of the first episode because people were so turned off by the title. I'm just shirtless with a bow tie. Well, Sona, you go first. This man, Matt Goorley, is going to be a father in just a few days for the first time and you've just gone through this experience.

What do you have to tell him? I don't know. I think the most important thing TAC does is make sure there's always food in the house. Just make sure that people know TAC as your husband. TAC is my husband. You can't just say TAC and people know, oh, right, that's a real name. Yeah. It's a very strange name.

What? Strange name? No, it is kind of, it is a little strange. First time you ever told me about him, when I met this guy, I really like his name's TAC, like TAC on the board or Tic Tac Toe. That's what you said. Yeah. And I went, okay, if you have to explain that name, boy, I just realized about what my first

name was. I know. Really? Yeah. That's a shortened name. His real name is Artac. Artac? Artac, yeah.

Artac. Anyway. Yeah. Artac. Matt, anyway. Artac. Do I have, I don't know. I mean, do I, I think that you just do whatever Amanda says.

Okay. I mean, I sort of planning on that. Yeah. That just happens anyway. I know my wife just took charge and she spoke with the ferocity and commanding power of Zeus. She just was like, there was no questioning what was going to happen. So, um, and I think, I don't know, that must be evolution taking over, you know, I don't

know what happened, but suddenly I remember feeling like, oh, I am no longer in charge and I have not been in charge since. I don't think I was in charge before we had children, but certainly not afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. Were you there in the delivery room? I am presuming. Right?

Yes. Yes. In that sense. I had a very aggressive, we had a very aggressive doctor who really believed that the husband should participate fully and, um, and, and I just thought that's what everyone did. So I very much did. I mean, I helped, I mean, catch my, my, uh, my daughter and cut the cord and then, uh, same thing with my son.

And so, but I'm not sure everybody does that. I grew up watching reruns of I Love Lucy and shows like that and they always, they were shot in black and white and, uh, men in this situation wore baggy suits and they paced around a well-appointed dress, waiting room. Yeah. Uh, and then pastor, we're told that there was a baby passed around cigars and all went out to a nightclub together. Yeah.

Didn't even look at the baby. Yeah. Wait, that's not what's happening. That's not what's going to happen. Oh my God. And so now we're in this world where I felt like I had done seven years after, after my daughter Neve was born, uh, I, I felt like I had been through medical school. Oh God.

I, I really just was like, and I was thinking that business of me wearing a baggy linen suit and heading out to the stork club with Fred Mertz and having high balls and everybody toasting me and then dancing the night away to a Latin band. What happened to that idea? Yeah. But no, that's not what happens. I had a C-section and Tak said the same thing. He's like, I should have never looked on the other side of that sheet and he does this

thing where he like, it looks like, you know, the Demogorgon from, uh, Stranger Things. Oh yeah. He, the way he describes it makes me feel like that's what my body looked like. Oh wow. Yeah. Very erotic. I don't know that she was trying to be erotic. I'm just, I don't want to speak for you so much.

I was trying to be erotic. Who am I to know? I apologize. It's very, it's a very sensual time when you're getting a C-section. Who feels like some internal organs? Oh, that's Curtin thing that you're talking about, which, you know, I believe is only present during a C-section and not vaginal birth. Yeah.

No, I had, uh, my wife did not have a C-section, but I had an old vaudevillian puppet show Curtin brought in. No. That's what I keep saying too. Yeah. I think you were in the audience for this. When the baby came out, it was a little Curtin parted, and I had a little band of puppets playing.

And then I had a little hat ready for my daughter just as she came out, and I went, I was arrested, by the way, for doing all that. Yeah. The hospital shut that shit down right away. Good. Good. That's good. I do want to take a second to thank you both for this advice.

Seriously, it's been so helpful. This is, I feel like I've learned more than my three birthing classes that I managed. I'm going to try and be sincere for a second, and I think I can do this. You can do it. Uh, all right. Here's what I'm going to tell you. People are going to give you all kinds of advice, and they're going to try to prepare you.

And I am of the belief there is no preparing anybody. It's such a profound change in your life. Everything goes from black and white to color. Everything goes from one dimension to nine dimensions. It's such a big change, block out everybody telling you everything. Just go through this. And nothing anybody says is going to mean anything to you, but it is going to be the best thing you ever do in your life.

It's absolutely transformative and great, and you're going to be a great dad. So I think you should just go through it. Don't listen to anybody. That's now, if I can be serious for a second, that's truly the best advice I've heard because I don't know how to articulate that's something I've been wanting to hear because you do get a lot of advice from people. Yeah. I feel like in my gut that sounds right to me, and I appreciate hearing that very much.

Yeah. No, I'm serious. I'm absolutely serious. The only thing I tell anybody, and this is not something you need to know now is lots of video, lots of pictures because you will never, ever think I have too much video of these guys because my wife and I just still go back and I'm so grateful. We just, and now with iPhones, that's right, maybe I'm sorry. Speaking of erotic.

I love that I said, I'm going to be sincere for a moment and I'm also going to work in a plug for Apple. Also, does that, is that how it works? You just say iPhone and you get a free iPhone, iPhone, iPhone, iPhone. Nice try, Sona. Oh. I don't know what the difference is between you and me. We need that.

Okay, Ferrari. My point is. Corvette. 1911 Taft Stamp. I know that stamp. Take tons of video, but I think all other advice is foolish. You will know what to do. Yeah.

Until you don't, and then you'll figure it out. Thank you. Thank you guys. I will miss you. It's only a month. I won't be gone long, but I will miss you guys. I will miss you so much you don't even understand. I have missed you.

I'm seeing on a piece of paper here. Let me read this. I will miss you too. Yes. This was written out by somebody, parentheses, show human emotion. I believe there's more. There's another line about arrays for us. Hey.

Oh, here it is. Yes. Yeah. And given the fact that you're both raising families now, I feel it appropriate that you be given a raise. Hey. Yeah. And it's a raise like no one has ever seen before.

It is a raise like no one's ever seen before. It's so small that it actually puts you in a much higher tax bracket without giving you any real increase in your income. Oh, that's nice. Well, thank you guys. Yep. Good luck to you. Have fun.

Give all our love to the lovely Amanda and go with grace, go with God. What? You have nothing else to say. I just felt like I wanted something that sounded a little bit like I was talking to an astronaut who was going into a capsule. Okay. And so that's go with grace, go with God is what I had. Yeah.

Okay. And secure your fireproof suit. Oh boy. This is not going well. This is a mess. It's so good to be back. We're back. Goodbye.

Goodbye. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gorely produced by me, Matt Gorely, executive produced by Adam Saks, Joanna Solotarov, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Year Wolf, theme song by the White Stripes, incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples, engineering by Will Beckton, talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and

Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.