Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Jake Tapper

Episode Date: May 17, 2021

Journalist and author Jake Tapper feels cromulent about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Jake sits down with Conan to talk about hanging out with the Eisenhower sisters, journalistic credibility (in superhero films), and exploring dark Hollywood in his new novel The Devil May Dance. Plus, Conan and his team consider the question of unseasonable horniness in response to a listener’s voicemail. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone].For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is Jake Tapper, and I feel Cromulant about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Okay, now I have to look that up. Cromulant. Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien's... Why are you laughing? Why? Why are you laughing? I don't know, your voice always gets to a point... Can I say something? What happens, I think, I know what you're going to say when I'm just talking in the moment, I'm myself, but whenever you guys say, now it's time to start the podcast, I get in my head and I go, what do I do?

I want Matt to do an impression, because I think he'll, you know... Okay, so tell me we're going to start the podcast. Okay, you're Conan now, and I'll be Matt Gorley, and we'll just put down my banjo, and my antique felt hat, and my best Truman doll, and then Conan, you should probably start the podcast now. Silence, silence, quiet. Murderer, murderer. Murderer, murderer.

I do say, why do I say murderer all the time? Murderer, murderer. All right, so then. Okay, come on, Conan. And then you take like, I'd say 30 seconds and you just go quiet and still like you're meditating, and then you finally come out of it and go, eight registers deeper than your normal voice, a little there. Welcome to Conan Brown, he's a friend.

Is it that bad? Is it that bad? I'm not done yet. Oh. The podcast where I con people into being my friend, and then you emerge into your side. Oh, because it takes me, yeah. It takes me a couple of, it takes, I know. I know.

No, it's not bad at all. It's not bad. It's not. It's not. No, but I'm self-conscious about it now. Oh. Time, no, no. I think it's that 30 seconds you take to think about it, where you go into broadcaster mode

when you just got to be old, Conzi-O-B-Rine and get out there. Conzi-O-B-Rine. Yeah, I don't ever want to be Conzi-O-B-Rine, but you're right. I get into my head and I think, what is this we're doing now? And then I look and there's this giant microphone in my face, and suddenly I feel like I'm supposed to be professional, and I go, hey, Conan and Brian, and immediately I know I'm not being my authentic self, and then Sona says something and enrages me, and I say, murderer, silence, silence.

Yes. And then suddenly we're back to this normal voice. Let's try it if you don't think about it. One, two, three, go. Hey, Conan O'Brien here. Conan O'Brien needs a friend. We're seeing a lot of traffic downtown on the 405. If you're going to merge with the 101, make sure you stay on the left lane.

We're going to check in now with Scotty Joe. Scotty Joe, what's going on? Hey, Scotty Joe here, I got my puppet, Mr. Quiggles, but we'll check back in with you guys later. Scotty Joe, Mr. Quiggles, you're listening to C.O.B. in the chill ch-ch-chill chums. You're listening to C.O.B. in the chill chums. You know, if we go from the podcast into that kind of radio, that would be so fantastic, you know?

It would be kind of retro vintage. It might just be cool again. Yeah. Wouldn't it be cool again? And you don't have to talk about guys that are hot, Sona. Yeah, guys I like what I'm doing. Yeah. You're doing some guy?

Doing some guy and he's hot. Yeah. Tell us all about it. Yeah. Tell us all about it. Yeah. We did it. Whoa.

Okay. What's the most asexual, sexual conversation I've ever heard in my life? I met a guy, he's hot, we're doing it, and then we did it, and then it was done. Yeah. And then it was a done thing that had been done, so one time again. It's time for sex reminiscences on the seventh. Yeah. All right.

I'm trying to get to the 134. Just be aware there's been a lurch melted cheddar cheese spill all over the highway. Oh my God. They're rushing beans to that site immediately to mix them in with the cheese. And Mike Chopper is now descending, losing altitude quickly. I forgot to gas it up beforehand. This is my final broadcast. Yeah.

You're in the helicopter too? I'm in the guy in the helicopter doing the patch report. Yeah. And I'm losing. You're in studio and in the helicopter. Okay. I've crashed. I'm now admired in cheese.

Cheese on the 134. I have to tell you, it's kind of a sharp, it's a sharp cheddar, I believe, from the taste of it. Wait a minute. That's my blood. Seven minutes after the hour, time for another sex remembrance from Sona. Yeah. Back to you with another sex remembrance.

Oh, and make sure you put in some helicopter noises behind me, golly. Later on. You can do it in editing. You don't have to do it now. Man, this is all live. We're going live. You're right. I'll do it.

Chopper, chopper, chopper, chopper. Oh, no. Chopper, chopper, chopper, chopper. It's time for another edition of Sound Effects Theater. Chopper, chopper, chopper, chopper. Oh, no. We're going down. Descend.

Crash. Listen. That was a terrible opening. So stupid. I am going to, from now on, yeah, from now on, I'm just going to launch right into it. Hey, Conan O'Brien, and you're going to hear that other guy. Oh, who's that other guy? I don't know who.

I don't know who either. I don't know who any of these guys are. I don't know. Just do what you do. I don't mean to make you all self-conscious about it. It's just, it does. You do like, it's silent and all of a sudden you're like, hi there. Yeah.

You know, it's so funny at home. If I say something, my wife doesn't like, she'll say like, wait, what did you say? I'll say, don't worry about him. He's just crazy. I know. And she'll say, worry about who? And I go, you know, Conan just being that way. And she'll say, wait, you're Conan.

And I'll go, no. And it totally gets me out of it every time. That's pretty good. Yeah. I'll be like, yeah. I say, so I'll be talking to her. So you be Liza. And I'll just say something like, oh, well, could we eat sooner?

What? Can we eat sooner? You know what? Don't, don't, don't worry about him. He's just, you know what he is? He's narcissist and it's all about him. And he's shown his podcast and just, just walk away from him. Cause you know what?

You're better than him. And she's like, who are we talking about? Yeah. Who are you talking about? Trust me, Conan's just a dick sometimes. But you know what? And then I become her confidant. Who's the good guy who's allying with her against Conan.

Okay. It's fantastic. That sounds pretty brilliant. Try it. It's very healthy when my children look at it and then they leave the room and they just cry. Okay. That makes sense.

And they know that, hey, I, I got to get going with our guest today. He's fantastic. He is of course CNN's chief Washington correspondent and host of the lead with Jake Tapper, which airs weekdays at four PM Eastern. He's also a New York times bestselling author. His new book, the devil may dance is available now. I'm very excited. He's with us today.

Jake Tapper. Welcome. Cromulant. Matt, do you know what Cromulant is? Hell no. I don't know what Cromulant is and I like to try and know what words are. Does that mean you're Cromwellian, meaning that you want to lead a successful revolution in England as a Cromwell?

I don't think so. There's a lot of debate about whether this is a real word or not. Does it come from the Simpsons? Yes, it comes from the Simpsons. Oh, see, I never know Simpsons trivia ever. I worked on it. I know, but that's the thing is when you work on a show, you don't know this stuff. And people are always coming up to me and saying, so in Mr. Plow.

And I, I, I don't know what they're talking about. What was Cromulant? It's a nonsense word along with the same kind of a noble spirit in big ins, the smallest man. And, and so somebody's asking about the word in big in and somebody says, somebody, somebody objects to it and the other person says, I don't know why it's a perfectly Cromulant word. Oh, that's okay.

I see. Well, see, Simpsons fans will be delighted and other people will just fast forward through this section, which I think is, which I think is allowed. You know, Jake, our listeners don't know this, but you and I are friendly in real life. That's it. We've demoted me to regularly ex-friendly. Yes. We are friendly.

We are, I'm going to say we're so friendly, one could even qualify us as friends. I mean, I think I've literally slept at your house. That doesn't count as friend. I literally have slept at your house. Do you remember that? That's another thing I was going to bring up. Do I remember it? I don't know.

I spend so many. Well, what happened? At the houses of late night hosts. Are they all from the dead? You may. I don't know. You might be one of those late night sluts that just moves around, sleeping at, you know, it's my house, and then it's Fallon's, and then it's Corden's.

You just might jump from late night house to late night house. If you're at Fallon's, you don't remember much the next day, I'll tell you that. Those are just rumors. He's never had too much. Listen, here's what I remember, you were in town, and I very kindly offered that you stay at my house. Yeah. I don't remember if there was a guest at all.

It's lovely. Not at all. It was a lovely guest room. So this is a true story. So I'm sleeping, I sound asleep, and then I just, you know, when you wake up and you're just aware of something, I woke up and Jake was standing in my room looking at me. And he was dressed in a suit. He was dressed for on air on CNN, and he was just staring at me, and you looked at me for

a bit, and I looked at you, and then you just walked out of the room. And I brought it up in the morning, and you denied it, and then I searched your luggage and you had no suit. So I don't know how any of this was possible. It's possible you dreamt it. It's possible that something was going on with Liza that, you know, can be double therapy. I mean, there's all sorts of possibilities with it. But not only have I slept at your house, I have lunched with you and your wife, with

my wife. Yes. Your lovely wife. We were the Flintstones and the Rubbles. I don't know. I'm going to say you were the Flintstones and we were the Rubbles. I'm going to give you the- Are you making fun of my feet?

No, no, no. It's giving you the alpha role. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. I thought you were making fun of me for having Fred Flintstone feet. No, not at all. Although you do start your car, but you've cut out the hole in the mind of your car. Have I enjoyed the Bronosaurus burger?

Is also the truth. You do. All right. You know, I think we became friendly and I think the cement is that we both love and have this insane obsession with presidential history and American sort of arcana, you know, like just- Well, first of all, you often send me something that's available on eBay. Well, I bring it as a gift for the show.

Everybody who knows you, who listens to the show knows that you have a lovely mug, a Dwight Eisenhower mug. Yes. I believe he's in uniform. It's an army Dwight Eisenhower. Yes. It's- I think it's Circo World War II and it's an Eisenhower mug and it's been on my desk.

It was on my desk at Cernot Live and then it was on my desk at The Simpsons. And then when it was time, when I had a late night show, someone said, well, what's going to be on your desk? And I just put it on my desk. It was there on the first episode and it was there for, I mean, it's 28 years I've had that mug on whatever desk I have. And so you were kind enough, that's a genre of collectible, which is these old mugs. So I think one of the first times I came on your show, I brought you, I believe, a General

MacArthur mug to go with it. And then I came back the next time and it was nowhere to be seen, the General MacArthur. It was not- Yeah, I wasn't going to, first of all, I wasn't going to leave it. I thought you could put it next to the Eisenhower to the World War II generals could be friends. Well, they weren't friends. They both had, well, MacArthur had a crazy ego and didn't get along with Eisenhower. And I knew that that would upset Eisenhower.

So then I brought you a Mamie Eisenhower mug the next time. I brought you Mamie, his wife. Next time I came on your show, also still not there. Still not. I didn't realize I took those mugs home. I wasn't going to. That's a bad precedent. Third time.

Because- General Montgomery. The British general. Yes. The British general. I remember this. General Montgomery. And by the way, keep in mind, Sonia, that he never, like it never appeared again.

I never saw it. It was not in his office. It was not at home. It's in my house. No. First of all, you have not, it is, these are at home, but what I wasn't going to do is leave them out on the desk because then, okay, Carrot Top comes on the show and leaves some chattering teeth as a guess and I've got to leave them.

And soon it's Pee Wee's Playhouse. I can't do that. And also the Montgomery, General Montgomery, I know all you listeners are going, that's right, you know, led British forces famously, you know, fought the Germans in North Africa. And then led British European forces in, and it did hated Pat and just absolutely hated them. But anyway, duh. And then, but anyway, he didn't look like Montgomery.

He looked like the dad on different strokes. It was a terrible depiction. There was a Conrad Bain, yeah, he was Bain-esque. He was Bain-like. And the MacArthur wasn't good either, by the way. The MacArthur. Oh, no, no, the MacArthur really wasn't good. It was hideous, frankly.

The better Eisenhower story is, and this is crazy. This is how sick we are. Go ahead. And Jake, you were the one that, you're enabling, like I have a sickness when it comes to this presidential history, and American history, and then, and 20th century history, and you enable it, and you add to the sickness. I did love it. I did love it.

So, everybody, what you did. I got a random invitation and email, and like, you know, I get a lot of these, I'm sure you do too, Conan. Did I want to have dinner in New York? Was it the 75th anniversary of the D-Day landing? It was something like that. It was some historical night having to do with World War II, and the Eisenhower granddaughters were going to be there, lovely ladies, probably in their 60s, I would guess, something like

that. Yeah. The Eisenhower granddaughters. And did I want to do that? And it turned out, I live in D.C., you live in L.A., but both of us were in town for Warner Media, or maybe it was TBS, whatever it was, whatever our parent company was at the time, Sweeps Week. So, we were both, I knew you were going to be in New York, and you and I had gotten

together before during that week, and so I said, this is going to sound crazy, but I think you're the only other person in the world that would want to do this with me. Do you want to go have steak to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the D-Day landing with General Eisenhower's granddaughters? Yes, and what I love is that the text I get is, hey, I lined up a pretty good night, you, me, and the Eisenhower sisters, and it was so funny because it was, suddenly it was like Lenny and Squiggy are dating these two sisters. Now, look, again, the Eisenhower sisters could not be lovelier, and they're granddaughters

of the great president and General Eisenhower, and they could not be lovelier, but it was just so funny because it was all couched in this. I said, if it was Fonzie going out with, like, you know, the... Leather Tuscadero and Pinky Tuscadero. Exactly. And so we show up at this thing, and, of course, they're delighted to see you because this is how we're an odd couple. You are a legitimate figure in pop culture, so you walk into the room and the Eisenhower

granddaughters are saying, oh, my God, it's Jake Tapper, Jake Tapper, it's so good to be here, and you went, yes, and this is Conan O'Brien, and they were trying to be nice, but that's not true. That's not true. They could not pick me out of a police lineup. Not true, and they knew about, and at least one of them, Susan, I think, knew about the mug on your table. You are perhaps the most prominent fan of Dwight David Eisenhower alive today.

I can't think of one. I've worked hard to get the word out on Dwight D. Eisenhower among this slacker generation, you know, these punks today, and to try and instill a sense of history and responsibility. I think we're the slacker generation, by the way. That's such a dated reference you're actually referring, like we are technically the slacker generation. Oh, it's odd. Is it us?

We are slackers. Generation Z thinks of, like, that's like you describing the baby boom generation, like thinking that, like, or the greatest generation. These young kids today, the greatest generation. Yeah. But you know what's funny? I'm doing something that my dad does. My dad was, I think, 15 years old when World War II ended, so he was too young to be involved

in any way, or 15 or 16. But he is so in love with and knows so much about World War II that he now talks as if he fought in the war. And I think he's convinced, he's watched so many of these documentaries and so many of history channel things that I think he really does feel like that pain in his hip, you know, is not that he's in his 90s, it's that he took shrapnel, you know, at Iwo Jima. And so... He fought in the Pacific, though.

He fought in the... Well, he fought in both, in his mind, and not one and then the other. In his mind, he probably believes now that he was jumping from the European theater to the Pacific and then back again. He was just constantly commuting between these fronts in the war. And I was...I think I've read so much about this history that I'm starting to feel like, uh, you punks, you don't know what it was like in World War II, like, you idiot! You came of age in the 1980s, you idiot!

What are you talking about? You're a comedy writer. You're a comedy writer, and I'm like, yeah, but when I was writing comedy, I took some shrapnel. When? When did you take shrapnel? No, no, no, it was a sketch show I was working on. Making the jump to on air was tough, kids.

It was tough. I had to work with John Lovitz, he wasn't easy. He used to want a lot of cake, and we had to get him his cake. Um, yeah, just really, uh, real foolishness. I've always been so...I think anyone listening right now can sense there's a real affection here. Yeah, we're not friendly. I mean, can we revisit this again?

I think we have established now, and everybody listening knows we're friends. Now maybe you're embarrassed to admit it, or maybe there's something in you that is... Jake, you would...no, no, you legitimize me. I'm happy about it. We're friends. If I come to Los Angeles, I let you know I'm coming so we can grab dinner. I mean, this happens. Yes, I know.

Let me explain what happened when I said we're friendly. I was the first one to make the statement, and I didn't want to be wounded. I didn't want to be hurt. You didn't want to be hurt? You thought I'd reject it. Okay. Well, I thought it was possible if I said, hey, we're friends that maybe, you know, you'd make some snide comment, and then I'd be...

Oh, life's too short for that. I'd be so filled with shame, so I think what you sensed there was me being afraid to really open up. You don't want to be vulnerable. I don't want to be vulnerable in front of Jake Tapper. And you served in World War II? In both theaters. Because it's my crusty...I served with my father, which is very unusual for a father

and son to fight alongside each other when one is underage and the other is not born yet. But yeah, I fought with my father in both theaters of World War II, and I think you punks today don't know what's going on. Young Gen Xers. Getting back to it, it was really fun. We had this dinner. It was great.

Both Eisenhower granddaughters were there, and then I think you and I, and at some point, I think we got put at a kid's table. I don't know what happened. Yeah, I don't think... They definitely didn't put us at the good... You know who was there? I mean, there was such an elite clientele, and yes, definitely, Kone and I were not put at the head table.

But there was...who was the guy who...who was Jackie Onassis's husband? Yes. Maurice Templesman was there. A Belgian-American businessman and diamond merchant is what... Yes. ...Kopiutius was born in 1929. And he introduced himself to me that way. He said, I'm a Belgian...

Diamond merchant. Diamond merchant. And so that was the kind of party. We were in this super insane bubble of kind of important people, and they put us at this little card table, which I think they made the right call. Yeah, it's just that these two stooges are on television. And the thing is about Maurice Templesman is he's so successful and wealthy, he doesn't care if we know who he is.

I think that's the reason we had to kind of search for his name. Like, he doesn't...he dated Jackie Onassis because, like, wow, that's like the greatest woman he could, you know, in his social circle. But he's not, like, out there dining out on it. Nobody cares. Like, you know what I mean? He's so successful. He needs to be on television and get approval the way you and I do.

Yeah. And we kept throughout the dinner, either one of us or both of us, or, you know, sometimes in unison, would shout, we're on television. Oh, God. And I think that's why we got put at that smaller table. And I was trying to do bits. I was trying to convince people. I had...I actually do have a bad habit of showing footage of my show on my phone.

Oh, no. And the Eisenhower sisters, they weren't having it. They asked me to please sit down. You have that thing that I don't have, Jake, which is that you can...you're a very funny guy, talented guy, and a witty guy, but then you can always be the guy that's saying some important news just came in and you have this gravitas. I don't have that. Occasionally on my show, I try to say this just in, in some important news, but inevitably

it's the beginning of a sketch, where there's a chimp wearing a one-helmet. I think I'm mildly amusing for a news anchor. I think that's what it is. It's like a dog that can catch a frisbee really well. It doesn't catch a frisbee well compared to humans, but for a dog, that's pretty good. That's what I'm like with humor. I will talk and maybe one thing I'll say in a 15-minute conversation is like, gets a smile out of you.

But I'm happy for that. I'm happy for it. But I am a serious person, generally speaking, which is why I have the gravitas as it were. I think something, and the reason maybe I said friendly instead of more friends, and I'm going to keep going back to it, too, is because I've always been slightly jealous of your bromance with Paul Rudd. You are very tight with Mr. Paul Rudd, and I always think that on occasion, the three of us have gotten together, and I always sense that you guys are happier to see each other

than you are to see me. Then I get in my head about that and I go, I guess I'm no Paul Rudd because I'm actually aging like a human being. His thing is freakish. I do not even understand why he looks the exact same now than when I met him 15 years ago. It's crazy. I do, which is I found out that he has a chamber that he sleeps in.

That would make sense. It's filled with Pond's facial cream, and he just lies in it face down and these little straws go in his nose and feed him oxygen, and so he marinates in Pond's cream all night long. That's a true fact. Like Bill Hurd in Altered States. Yes, but you have to admit, it's threatening to me. I'm threatened by your closeness with Paul Rudd, everyone loves you.

Paul is just on this level of rarefied air, and every now and then he'll come down and I'll say hi to him, but then he'll go back up. You'll remember when the three of us got together in New York, you and I were hanging out at a bar, at a hotel bar, and then I told Paul I was in town, and he asked where, and then I told him, and he came and he met the two of us, and where did he just come from? Do you remember this? He had just been playing poker with Al Pacino. Oh my God.

Like that's the life that Paul lives. Paul literally has stories about Paul Newman making him salad dressing, like not, he didn't just grab a bottle of Newman's own. He made salad dressing for, so you know, that's the life he leads. Yeah, and we didn't have anything. You said, oh yeah, no, I just played Hungry Hungry Hippos with Wolf Blitzer, and Paul just sort of, I remember he rolled his eyes, yeah. And I said, I have a Christmas card that I got once from Pee Wee Herman, and I tried

to produce it, but couldn't find it. He was on that different level, and then that was pre-Ant-Man, then he gets Ant-Man and forget it. He's a Marvel hero now. He has reached, now he won't return Pacino's phone call. He just said, whoa, what happened? By the way, so speaking of Marvel, I know you're there, pick up the phone. Who are you?

You're Pacino impression. You gotta pick up the phone. Make the call. Make the call. I gotta be on the edge. Make the call. Where I gotta be. Your bad bums, the light again.

Oh my God. A man's soul. You are out of order. Anyway, yeah, that's Paul Rudd now, he will never speak to him again. So do you know, so have you watched all the Marvel movies, because I am now, I waited to watch a whole bunch of stuff for my kids to be old enough to watch it with me. Like the Harry Potter movies, all the superhero movies, and now my kids are 11 and 13, they could not give a shit.

And they do not want to see superhero movies, they do not want to see Harry Potter movies, they couldn't care less. So now I'm watching them by myself, and they're very, but I'm only up to Civil War, Avengers Civil War. So I still got, I got a ways to go. Have you watched them all? Well, I'll tell you something. My kids are really into it.

And that makes me jealous. And you know, they're a little older now, but when these, a couple of years ago, they were really into these movies, and I was watching with them. And I forget which Avengers movie it is. It's somewhere in there where they're trying to assemble the Fraggle Rock, and it turns into a glove. I forget what it is. That's every superhero movie by the way.

Yeah. So they're trying to get all the stones together, and it's like the second of those or the first of those. And I had a revelation that I will share with you now, which is, at one point, the sky opened up into a portal from another universe. And monsters started coming out of it, and there was a giant dragon, and there's different. And everything came out of this portal, and there were no rules. Like, they were gods that came out, and so one of them could punch Thor and he'd go flying,

but then Captain America, who's just a strong man, would punch one of them and then go flying. But yeah, I mean, you know, yeah. He's as strong as like three men. He's basically someone who, if you hire any mover at a moving company, and he's almost as strong as Captain America. He's basically just like The Rock, but if you get put tights on. Yeah. And he's, he's Dwayne The Rock Johnson, and yeah, okay, you're like really impressed.

That's great. It's like you're really fit. If there's a meteor coming. But you take out a gun and you shoot him, you're like, sorry, Rock. Yeah, and he, yeah, exactly. That's right. And so. Look at his calves.

Anyway. I do. I do often. I have a poster in my room. So does shaking her head. Yes. Yep. Yeah.

But listen, here's my point. My point is. Go into another room with his calves for God's sake. So. I walked out of the screen, I walked out of, you know, this, this movie and I went in the lobby and my kids were like, what's the problem? And I went, I can't do portals. I don't like movies where the sky opens up and anything can come out and you don't know

what the rules are anymore in the movie. And you know, the script writers just go, oh, what the hell? Have something open up in the sky and that'll be act three and stuff comes out and everybody's fighting everything and anybody happened in Justice League too on the, in the DC. Yes. Yes. What I'm saying is that I'm portals if, and I'm, this is a, I'm unnoticed to DC and Marvel. Stop it.

Stop having the sky open up, work within the framework that you've created and make a viable universe and then follow those rules and stay up late and figure out a way for you to. I agree. Don't open a portal in the air and like, oh, look, it's a creature. It looks like a giant, you know, a corn cob, shooting a beam that's made of jewels that then turn into French baguettes. Like it's just. Right.

But if you take these four, you know, super powered games of Simon and put them together then, then you can close the portal. Yes. Can I just say that this discussion did not go the way I thought it was going to go? Why? Yo, oh, you thought we'd be talking about, oh, democracy's in peril. It is. Oh, what do we do?

It is. But can we not talk about it? That's what I talk about all day. Yeah, exactly. You know, Matt, first of all, all that stuff's going to straighten itself out. Probably not. The portal? Unless somebody opens a portal.

We need a portal. What's going to happen is Mitch McConnell, Mitch McConnell is, Mitch McConnell is going to be just about to destroy voting rights and he's about to be, he's just about to do it when the sky is going to open up and a bunch of crazy characters are going to come down. And that's how people get there quickly. Yeah. Sorry, Jake.

So all I wanted to say is, so I'm watching, so I'm catching up on all these movies now and I'm watching Batman versus Superman because I wanted to see the Snyder cut. I started watching it. I'm like, oh, shit, I need to watch Batman versus Superman first. And then I start watching Batman versus Superman and I'm like, oh, shit, I need to watch Man of Steel first. So then I, anyway, let's proceed in Batman versus Superman. They have CNN anchors that have cameos, I think Anderson's in it and Dana Bash is in

it. And Dana, do you remember, this is, and this movie came out 10, 15 years ago, it's a spoiler alert. And there's a scene in which they frame Superman, it makes it look like Superman caused a terrorist attack in the Capitol. Do you remember this? Did you watch this movie? No.

Okay. Yeah. And it's not that long ago. I think it's like five years ago. Okay. Well, it doesn't spoil the movie, but anyway, the point is Superman is framed. He didn't, he didn't do this, but anyway, Dana is in the movie. My colleague and friend is in the movie basically on television, regurgitating anti-Superman

talking points, like, like, no, I mean, and I, I couldn't, I'm like, you know, you're allowed to change the script if they give you stuff that you don't want to say. I mean, I get that, like, you know, we, we get, we got asked to do it and I put, I would have done it too. I say yes to anything like that. It's fun, but, and it's the only way that your kids, you know, my kids ever get to see me do anything. But, but I'm like, Dana, you know, like, why, why are you on television reading like anti-Superman

talking points? Superman's a good guy. Like, you know, you know that Superman's good, right? She's like, yeah. And you're saying that, that Dana, you think, hurt her journalistic credibility by going anti-Superman, which they would do on Fox. Only on, only on, only in Metropolis, but yes, only in Metropolis, but yes. She's lost her street cred in Metropolis.

Yeah, I think, exactly. Like, I mean, she should have, she said, well, she had, there was a whole scene that she did where she and Lois Lane played by Amy Adams were talking and da-da-da, and it would have, it would have, you know, her character would have come out more, but it didn't make the cutting room floor. So she's just, she's like the judge, Jeanine of Batman vs. Superman, just like saying nonsense that we know is not true. It's very upsetting.

This is, I love it. I love that. See, this is a side, I want, I want everyone, this is the real Jake Taver, I know that you have all this. I don't know this democracy stuff. You have all this credibility, and people admire you and respect you, this is what it's really about. Yes.

And is that you are spending most of your time critiquing Anderson Cooper's performance on Batman vs. Superman, you know. The other thing I'd like to say is, like, the other thing I'd like to say, and I think, I'm getting behind your anti-portal position, all right, I'm 100% behind it. I'm total anti, and listen, I'm asking my listeners too, contact Marvel, contact DC and say enough with the portals in the sky. Stop it. I guess the point is, like, they need to have a reason to have the whole gang together.

And so what, what could it possibly be? Because we know that they're strong enough to defeat any army, so it needs to be from a portal. But I don't buy it. Get more creative. No, no, no. Just say it's Thor's birthday and everyone's getting together, you know, at some Norse restaurant up on the Upper West Side, and that's when they attack, and they're all together.

That's all you have to do. You don't have to have a portal. I don't know, but how do people get there quickly? You know, that's the whole point. Get where quickly? Get to the battle quickly, you know, you need everybody there. So are you pro-portal? It sounds like she is.

You know what, you are, you're a portal apologist, and that's the worst kind of person you can be. You really have to be on one side or the other. You can't straddle portal or pro-portal or anti-portal. You have to be one. Yeah, I'm pro. I'm pro-portal. Okay, well, you know what I'm going to say, Sona, I'm so mad at you right now that I think

around July 2nd, I'm going to make you take a hiatus. That's my due date for my twins. You can say that if you want to save face, but as of around July 2nd, you are banned from being with me for a while until I decide that you can do that. You're Leopold and Loeb, her babies. Please name them Leopold and Loeb. Okay. Do you want to know a little bit about Leopold and Loeb?

No, you know, we're good. Maybe we should talk about democracy. So the other thing I wanted to say is, I think that if you are in the Marvel Universe, then you have to have the ethics and the strength to not then go into the DC Universe as an actor and both. You can't be Jay Jonah Jameson, Peter Parker's boss, and then turn around in your commissioner Gordon for Batman. You can't do it, Simmons.

You can't do it. You can't. It's not fair. You can't be one of Aquaman's evil gremlin fishmen and then turn around and be the Green Goblin fighting. These are specific. You can't do that. You can't be Daredevil and Batman, Affleck.

You have to pick. So I actually think, I'm actually an unapologetic Affleck fan, and I don't care what anybody says. And he's good as Batman, but I'm sorry he was Daredevil first. Sorry. And that ruined his Batman for you, didn't it? I'm just like, how can he also be Batman? He was Daredevil.

And then how can he also be Batman? Yes. You have to make a decision at some point, which superhero you're going to be. And also you have to choose Marvel or DC and this jumping from bed to bed is just disgusting. Exactly. I'm totally with you on this. Thank you. I'm not nearly as passionate about it.

I have one issue, which is no portals. Your thing is you want actors to line up and commit to a role and stick with that role. And also, yeah, and I find it. And commit to a role and commit to a universe. You can't do DC and also Marvel. You have to choose one or the other and whatever you pick. Are you okay with, are you okay with Ryan Reynolds being Green Lantern, but then later on being Deadpool?

Oh, that's interesting. No. Really? I really. The Green Lantern, he admits, totally fizzled. Doesn't that almost mean he gets another try? It wasn't a viable, you know. He's really good in Deadpool.

He's great in Deadpool. Those movies are so good. So what I'm saying is by your logic, Jake, by your very own logic, you think that Ryan Reynolds should have been barred from playing Deadpool because he had already had a role of playing Green Lantern that nobody saw or cared about. Yes. I submit to you, sir, that you are wrong. I submit to you, sir.

I submit that there are sacrifices that one makes for principle. Is that what you suggest? I mean, like it's. I don't know what you're talking about. Principle does not come with that. If there were no, I mean, that's what principles are. You uphold them even if sometimes it's inconvenient. Right.

You run a democracy even if your candidate loses, right? Yes. Here we go. There you go. You know what? You did a beautiful job of bringing it, bringing it around, too. But I still want to frustrate anyone who's tuning in to this podcast to hear a serious issue.

You think they pop in in the middle? Tuning in. I know. What do you mean? They just start listening now? They've made it this far. They've been listening. If anyone who's made it this far maybe should be rewarded with like a dose of something real.

We're going to get to that. I want to just make sure that I give you props on your second novel. Your book came out. The Devil May Dance. You were very kind to send me a copy in advance and I did read it and I told you how much I liked it. And then it gets this beautiful rave review in a little paper, I haven't heard much about, called The New York Times.

I couldn't believe it. Yeah. Congratulations. On a sincere note, congratulations. And then I have a pitch I'd like to make to you because anyone who's listened, if you haven't noticed, and I've said this before, Jake and I are both obsessed with sort of especially mid-century America and America in the 1950s and 60s. And your first book, Hellfire Club, sort of takes place post-war 1950s Eisenhower era.

But then the second book, Devil May Dance, takes place in 1961-62. And every page is packed with like three or four famous historic figures and all the stuff that happened at that time is playing out in real time on the accurate dates. And I was going to pitch myself for the audiobook. I'd like to play both Kennedys, if that's possible. The audiobook's already been done. I regret to say. No!

What are you talking about? I will say this. I did the audiobook for the Hellfire Club, the one that takes place in 1954. They did not, the publisher did not ask me to do the audiobook for this one, the Devil May Dance, which I took as an insult to be completely frank, but also with the relief. Wait, they asked you to do the first audiobook and then they said we're good on the second one? Yeah, yeah, they did.

But I will say this. I would like to have a Kennedy off with you because I did do the Kennedy Voices for the first book. I was there as Senator John F. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy, who worked on the Senate side for the Joe McCarthy's commission. Their character is in this book, too, obviously, because they're the president and attorney general. Now, when I do Robert Kennedy, it's kind of up here.

But when I do Jack Kennedy, it's a little lower and a little slower. Thoughts? Maybe your Jack Kennedy is Bobby Kennedy if he fell in a well. Is that how it happens? And hit his head, yeah. So Robert Kennedy's walking along and he's sort of up here, Mr. Chairman. He's a little reedy and he's up here and then he trips on a rack and he falls. And then he's down here and he's got a little more gravitas, tas, tas.

That's exactly it. I thought only little girls laughed and giggled Mr. Giancana. Yeah. Mr. Giancana. No, I just want to make sure that I do get the word out on The Devil May Dance. Yes. I think people are going to really... This is what inspired me.

The true story. And you already know this, I'm sure, because you're such a history buff. The Rat Pack came out for Kennedy in such a huge way in 1960. And Sinatra even rewrote one of his songs, High Hopes and all that. They did the inaugural ball and performed at the inaugural ball and they were friends. This and that. And when Sinatra, what Sinatra was expecting, when President Kennedy came out to California as president, he would stay with him at his Rancho Mirage compound, his estate there near

Palm Springs, and he had it built up and he had brooms added and he had telephone lines installed. He had a helipad built. Yeah. All true. But then Bobby Kennedy, Attorney General, was investigating organized crime and somebody pointed out to him that his brother's friend, Frank Sinatra, was friends with a lot of people in organized crime, including Mr. Giancana.

So then Bobby Kennedy had a dilemma. Does he not let the president stay with this huge supporter and insult him of Sinatra? Or does he let his brother sleep at a place where mobsters had literally slept while battling organized crime? So that's the true story and also the premise of the book, the inspiration for the book, because then I have my main characters, Charlie Martyr, who's a Republican congressman, who is like in the Eisenhower realm of Republicans and as opposed to the Matt Gaetz realm. And Margaret, his wife, who's as well, just go out and investigate to see if Sinatra's

really mobbed up or if it's kind of just a bit. And that's the premise of the book. And what's a real true story, as you know, is that the decision that the Kennedys make is that JFK will not go stay with Sinatra. He'll go and stay with, I always heard he stayed with Bing Crosby. He did. But this is not really a spoiler for the book. It's not a spoiler.

No, it's not a spoiler at all for the book. But yeah, he's staying. And if it is a spoiler, I apologize. So but what's important to know is in real life, this broke Sinatra's heart. It really broke his heart. It destroyed him. And one thing that is very seldom pointed out, but like in May 1962, and this is the last chapter of the book, in May 1962, JFK has his famous birthday party at Madison

Square Garden. That's also a fundraiser. It's when Marilyn Monroe sings Happy Birthday, Mr. President and all that. Although she's, you know, everybody thinks it's so sexy. She's stoned out of her mind and like months away from dying. It's right. It's it's really sad. Yeah.

Sinatra is not part of that celebration. Peter Lawford's there. Other members of the rap hacker there, Shulam Klein, et cetera, et cetera. He's not there. And like, that's it. He broke up and it really broke Sinatra's heart. It really was. I think it destroyed him.

And later in life Sinatra's a hardcore Republican. And so it's this big schism for him, you know, he was and that's why I liked that you that is sort of the centerpiece of the book or I wouldn't say the centerpiece, but it's what everything is around. It's like the structure, the chronological structure, but there's a ton of other stuff going on going on in terms with mobsters and the church of Scientology is there and all sorts of young ladies and mystery and murder. And Sona told me she's going to read it to induce labor, which I thought was a strange

a strange thing to say, but it's going to give birth to twins. One is going to come out and talking a little up here like Bobby and the other will be down here saying, I've been on Bill and I know representation and also Gaga, so you have your Google and you have your Gaga. This is what I have to say about that. Oh, please, I just would love it if these little guys came out and then mother and mother that for no reason at all, just because Jay suggested it. My friend Matt Clam, who's a brilliant writer of a fiction writer and he and I were hanging

out one time and this stuff seldom amuses wives, I will say. I will. Yes, trust me. So we hung out one time. This is 19, this is 2004. We're hanging out and we just thought something. We weren't, nobody was, we weren't drunk. We weren't high.

There was nothing going on, but we just decided to spend an afternoon talking as if one of us were John Kerry and the other one was Bill Clinton trying to give him advice. And so John, what are you doing for your convention? What are you? John, you've been to Vietnam, right? You've been to Vietnam. That's right, Mr. President. I have.

She's on. Non-forbes carried. I have been to Vietnam. Tommy, is it true what they say about the girls there? It was always like Bill Clinton, like introducing some serious subject, John Kerry, Fond du Role and Poppycock, Mr. President. And then Bill Clinton would just like swoop in and just ask the crudest, grossest question involved.

And we did it for hours and I swear to God, our wives went on many walks. We thought it was very funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The wives get that a wide berth as they should. We're going to go on a walk. That's real funny, that Kerry Clinton thing you got going, that's funny.

Yeah. We'll see you in six hours when this unspools. I got to let you go because I'm told that you have real things to do, which I can't believe. This is a joy. I'm a fan of the show. You three give me much pleasure. And so I get to thank you and Conan knows I listened because I will text him and tell

him that one's particularly good or... No, you texted me once that there had been a mistake that we should look into. During an ad. You re-ran in an ad. Yeah. That an ad re-ran and it was somehow it re-ran incorrectly. And so I come into the meeting of the podcast people and I said, I think there was a mistake and they were saying, there's no mistake.

And I said, no, no, no, Jake Tapper sent me this thing you should look into it. And they went, well, Jake Tapper's insane. And they came back and said, yeah, yeah, something went wrong. Jake Tapper's right. Well, it was one of the, you know, I was obviously a commercial that you do, right? Yeah. And it was just you did it twice and I'm like, they didn't mean for that. Yeah.

They re-ran it twice. Yeah. Accidentally, the exact same one. It didn't bother me. I fast-forwarded the ad anyway. No, no, but I loved it. Just so everyone out there knows, the quality control on Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend is Jake Tapper listening to every episode and phoning it.

No, you are... It's the only note I've ever heard. The only note. Yeah. I was very happy for you to do this because I do want people to know and they're seeing it now. Your books are very successful, your novels, but I wanted to show this other side of you. You're a very talented guy.

You're very funny. You're very thoughtful. You're a very good cartoonist. And I just thought like, oh, I'd love to have you on the podcast where we can shine a light on this part of you that doesn't always get to come out when you're doing the news and our world is collapsing. So I was really glad you could do it. Well, it's an honor.

It's a pleasure. Like I said, I'm a huge fan. Am I the first non-entertainer at Percentage? No, we've had... Robert Caro. Robert Caro did it. Oh, my God. Michelle Obama.

You're a hero. Robert Caro. Yes, my hero Robert Caro. Yes. I stalked Robert Caro. Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton. Oh, right. Of course.

Of course. Of course. And so I'm trying to think... David Sideris? I mean, he's... He's a humorist. Yes. So I think he's...

I think Sideris counts as an entertainer. But yes, of course, you've had those major political figures. I apologize. I should have known that. Well, you shouldn't have been confident. The truth of the matter is I don't... When I leave work, I very seldom listen to anything that has to do with my day job. That's exactly what I do.

I don't want to... Yeah, you have to clear your head. Yeah. I don't want to say you're in some dark room watching Batman v. Superman or Avengers number 77 and saying, no, no, no, no, you can't play Doc Octopus when you also played... You can't. The Riddler 15 years ago. It's...

No, I think it's a good principle. And I think you'll have fans that are going to say, I agree with you on the portal and I agree with Tapper even stronger on the choosing your universe. Choose your universe. Yeah. I do watch a lot of entertainment, whether it's comedy, but I also watch a lot of drama when I get home because I do want to clear my head of the news even... Yeah.

And I've been watching Mayor of Easttown. Is that... Yeah, yeah. I have not seen it yet, but I've heard it's good. It's good, but it's also funny because I'm from Philly and they make a big effort to do the Delaware County accents. And successful or not... No, it's good.

It's just funny to those of us from the region because, you know, I love it. Like for instance, when I hear the first lady Jill Biden speak, she has such a Philly accent. She's from Willow Grove, which is a suburb outside Philly. She has such a Philly accent. To me, it's like music. To me, it's like a melody. But for most people, for someone to say, oh, he overdosed. You know, it's not a pretty sound.

No, she had a hoagie and then she overdosed. That reminds me of one that movie, The Perfect Storm came out and all the actors decided we're going to do Boston accents. And I think George Clooney very wisely just said, I'm not doing it. So he just did it for... He was the only one that didn't have a Boston accent. And then some people went really like hardcore on the Boston accent. And one of the actors in the film is she's watching the storm and seeing where it's coming.

She's like looking at it on TV, and then she knows where that boat is that all of her friends are on. And she goes, someone says, are they headed towards that storm? And she just looks at that person and goes, they're in the jaws of a monster. And I stood up in the theater and I don't remember what I had in my pockets, but it was thrown. And so every now and then, I'll just be driving, you know, if there's a slight rain here in LA, it never rains. But like three drops, I'll be like, I'm in the jaws of a monster!

Jake Tapper, you're a scholar, you're a gentleman, you're multi-talented, and the Devil May Dance is a lot of fun. It's a good read. And so go and get your copy right now. Run Don't Walk. Thanks, guys. Have a great work, all of you. Let's take a voicemail from one of the listeners and hear what people have to say.

What do you guys think? It sounds like we have no choice, and this is what you've decided to do, and we have to do it. God. Let me rephrase that. We're going to take a voicemail. God damn it. Hey, Conan.

This is Mike Williams from Kelso, Washington. I'm a fellow pale-skinned, handsome, ginger person such as yourself. I didn't really have a question, I've more got to complete. I haven't heard, there's been several guests that I thought would say something when they say, I am XY about being Conan O'Brien's friend. I've been waiting for someone to say, I am unseasonably horny about being Conan O'Brien's friend. So I don't know if you can make somebody say that, or write it in, or somebody, I just

really want to hear it on the podcast. I think it's funny, but I'm not that funny. Well, I think Mike brings up a good point. Very few people, and I don't think, in fact, none of the guests have confessed to this encounter with me being erotic in any way. You and Jeff Goldblum had like a sonic love session. Yes, yes. I was in love too.

Right. Okay, Jeff Goldblum, but he can have that with a ham on rice sandwich. I mean, that's a guy who, anything, you know, he gets into an elevator and hits his floor, and he's like, oh, you know, he's, everything's erotic to him. So you don't get any points for that. I think what Mike Williams is bringing up here, he's not completely off that some people, now why does he say unseasonably horny? Because I don't think of, I mean, yes, with wildlife, I guess there are seasons when,

say, the sap rises, the flower opens. What? But. What's happening? Do humans have a season? Do we have a sexual season? I don't think I, I mean, I'm not the most sexual person. But is there a sexual, when he says unseasonably horny, that's the part that threw me a little

bit. I don't know. Does he mean that literally or it just means like unbelievably horny? Like. Yeah. I don't think that there's a season to be horny. Well, Mike, now listen, he's from, he's from Kelso, Washington, and maybe that's, you know, it gets cold and rainy there for a lot of the year, and maybe there is a time when

the clouds part, that low ceiling disperses that cloud cover, and suddenly there is a season of raw sexuality, and maybe that's what he's talking about. I mean, they say spring, then we're in it right now. Yes. Who's they, Matt? Oh, my sex council. Yeah. You know, as my mother always used to say, spring is sprung, the grass is riz, I wonder

where the flowers is. And I thought, oh, that's a great little ditty mom, and then she'd have us all do Irish step dancing. Yeah. You know, where you keep your legs really straight? Wow. I wonder why no one has ever said you mean that. Well, I mean, you know, spring is sprung, the grass is riz, I wonder where the flowers

is. And I thought, oh, that's a great little ditty mom, and then she'd have us all do Irish step dancing. Yeah. You know, where you keep your legs really straight? Wow. Has anyone ever said you make them unseasonably horny? I thought, OK, you all have a nice little laugh.

Good one, Sona. You made me look like a fool. Has anyone ever said you make me seasonably horny? No. Nobody's. Has anybody ever said you make me horny? Look, OK, that's great. That's great.

That's great. Everyone have their nice little chuckle at Conan's expense. I just think it's weird. Mike wants you to make a guest say this about you on your podcast. Well, first of all, if a guest wants to say that, they may. That's up to them. But I wouldn't want to make them say anything. Well, some guests we know listen to this podcast, so maybe if there's a future guest

listening, they should take note and come in right out of the gate with unseasonably horny. Yeah. But then I'll know it's not real. You know? And what if it's someone I find very attractive and then I? What if it's like Ed Asner? Well, with Ed Asner, I would be very happy if I made Ed Asner unseasonably horny.

That would delight me. I grew up watching Lou Grant and our sexuality is a spectrum, it's a continuum. And I'd be very happy to make Ed Asner delighted in that way. But my point is that I don't want to force a guest to say anything or get in their heads in that section of the show. I want it to be a free expression of how they feel in that moment. Now, if future guests want to say that I'm their hall pass, you know, anything like that to that degree, you know, that they find me.

What are you mumbling? What are you saying? Whenever I get talking about something that's kind of erotic, I just sort of mutter and mumble. Oh, God. Making me unseasonably unhorny. That's my sexy talk is I just, and you can't quite hear what I'm saying. Whenever I've tried to talk dirty in my life to a, you know, potential mate, I start going

huh. And they're like, what are you saying? What happens sometimes in the past, when it's a talk dirty to me, I go, huh, oh, no. And then I have to, you know, Sassafras, Sassafras, they'd be like, yeah, that's what they would say. Sassafras. And why don't you speak up? Do you need help, sir?

Yeah. It always ended with EMTs coming and yeah, it would be mistreated. People would say always had. Something's gone very wrong with this man. And I would later on say, look, I was just trying to talk dirty in an erotic moment and I was overcome with frustration and anxiety. And so I started soft mumbling things, words like Sassafras and Corn Cub. And that's why it all went south.

I don't know. Mike, you got the wrong guy, you know, you just do. You do. You got the wrong guy. There are plenty of podcast people out there that are sexy and a guest might say that it's not going to happen for me. It's never going to happen for me and it shouldn't happen. That's not why people come to Conan O'Brien needs a friend, you know, this is not an erotic

thrill ride. Clearly, it might actually be the exact opposite of an erotic thrill ride that I can promise you. No one has ever been aroused by listening to this program. That is a guarantee. It's impossible. It's absolutely impossible. Yeah.

I think we have talked about that on this show before that it was a boner killer. Yeah. You know what you could have done? You could have made the choice to go, oh, Conan, you know, you're being too hard on yourself and you're a handsome guy and there are people out there. You know, you could have done something like that, but you didn't. You doubled down on, oh yeah, remember boner killer? Yeah.

Remember that? You're like, okay, that's nice. I'll do it. I'll do it. No, you're wrong. No. It's just let it go. Oh, Conan, come on.

Yeah, there's so much raw sexuality seeping out of you. Now I'm getting all hot and bothered. No. I'm getting hot and bothered now. Ew. What are you doing? That was a sassafras. Oh, God, come on.

Boner killer, boner killer. Sassafras. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Sonamov Sessian and Conan O'Brien as himself. Produced by me, Matt Corley, executive produced by Adam Saks, Joanna Salatarov and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf, theme song by the White Stripes, incidental music by Jimmy Vavino. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.

The show is engineered by Will Bekton. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review featured on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

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