Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Jason Bateman

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

Actor and director Jason Bateman feels pretty good about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Jason sits down with Conan to discuss the magical dynamic of his hit podcast SmartLess, the intricate layered comedy of Arrested Development, and traversing the difficult path from child star to adult acting professional. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/conan.

Hi, my name is Jason Bateman and I feel... pretty good about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Wait a minute, you said you worked on this answer. I know, but then I said I got nothing. Pretty good? With a dramatic pause before you. What? What? Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walk and lose,

climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are gonna be friends. Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends. Hey there, it's Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I am Conan O'Brien and I'm joined here. It is an intro. Yeah. What is your problem?

I didn't know what we were doing. Okay, well that's a part for the course. Okay. No, we're not changing anything. We're keeping this. Yeah, Gorley will cut this out. No, yeah, Gorley keep it in, it's too good. Well torn between two parents.

All right, I'll start again. My guest today, oh sorry. Now you gotta keep it in. Hello, goodbye. Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I don't know why I'm talking like the old movie phone guy. I'm Conan O'Brien joined by Sonam obsession, Matt Gorley and I was disheartened to learn Sona last week,

that the jacket that for years I've made fun of, because you wore it all the time, just constantly, constantly. I mean, you wore it at your wedding. It was ridiculous. Okay. I didn't wear it that much. You wore it all the time, every day.

Do you agree that you wore it a lot? I wore it so much, the lining was ripping. And you wore it all the time, every day. Do you agree that you wore it a lot? I wore it so much the lining was ripping. And so it was a little bit of a thing where I would make fun of the jacket and was kind of like a fun hee-hee-haha. And then I found out on last week's episode, just joking around, that your jacket was lost when your house caught fire.

Right. Which I didn't know, and I was expressed real surprised because I couldn't imagine that jacket not being with you. Yeah. But you said it was in the house and so it's gone. It's gone, it was in the house. I did wear it a lot, it was my, I felt like, but the Fonz wears his jacket all the time.

Like there's cool people who wear the same jacket. That's a television character. They're legally required to wear the same. Indiana Jones. Yeah, they have to wear the same. Indiana Jones. Yeah, they have to wear the same thing. That's a movie character. Yeah, but like, isn't it cool? It was not.

I think so. No, it wasn't good every day. And I offered to buy you other jackets, remember? Yeah, I know, but I don't need other jackets. I had a jacket I liked. Well, now you need a jacket. Well, so I looked and they still sell my jacket. They do?

They do. It was like, I think I bought it like maybe 10 years ago, but it's like kind of a staple for the brand. I think it's more than 10 years ago because, no, because you started working with me like 15, 16 years ago. I bought it while I was working for you. And you had the jacket then. Yeah, and it was a splurge for me.

So I thought to myself, okay, if I wear it enough, it'll justify how much I spent on it. And so that's part of the reason why you wore it so much. Okay. So anyway, they still have it. They still have the jacket? They do, yeah. Would you wanna replace it?

I will pay for this jacket. If it doesn't go above a certain amount. If I do buy another one, are you going to make fun of me? Yes. So you're paying for the right because you've now lost the right to make fun of her jacket. We had a fun thing going where I could come up

with all these different riffs about the jacket. And the jacket tragically lost, the riff was lost. The joke was lost. I understand this. That's what I think of. I think- Can I represent you? Yeah, please.

Will you give her the cash value? No, I want the, no, absolutely not. No, she's got to- She's cold-hearted. Well, I'm sorry, I'm a businessman. Is that as far as you had? That's all you had? I'm a firecaster, I'm not a lawyer.

He's a lawyer who just, oh, I understand. And then immediately, he closed his briefcase. He folded up the table he was sitting at and he jumped out the window. My work here is done. Well, my work here is done. Out in the window. Matinee at the Bijou, I've got to catch.

I really thought you were gonna go in on him. No, no. I will not do the cash value. I want you to have the same jacket because I want you to have that jacket back. Let me see it. I love it. Bring up that picture. Cause I don't remember this jacket.

You don't remember it. It's the only thing she wore. It looks so much better on this model. That's like me saying, I don't remember your puzzled expression. Look how cool, that was a cool jacket. Oh yeah. Yeah.

It's like a proper, it's like a biker's jacket. It's these, this is the part that I thought was very General Zeas, Planet of the Apes, you know. Oh yeah, that tall detail. Dr. Zeas. Oh right. That's like. I don't know if I need that anymore.

No, you gotta have that. There's like a quilted leather cross hatch. Yeah, yeah, that was the part that really bothered me. Oh. Yeah. But I want you to get that exact same jacket. They still sell it? They do. What's the price?

You know what this is? It's the Terminator jacket, basically. Is it? It's kind of. I didn't, I don't know. You're the Terminator. Yeah. No, the Terminator wears like

a normal motorcycle jacket, doesn't he? That's kind of what that is. There's other jackets that don't have that detail on it. All right, let's get into more profitable territory. Cause you guys are going into the weeds here and it's my job as the helmsman. Is that your final offer? What, how much is this?

I'm scared to say it because it's, I do want to say I did splurge on this. Let me say it, let me say what it is. It's 550. I spent splurge on this. Let me say it, let me say what it is. It's $5.50. I spent that on lunch. Okay. I order $550 worth of fresh Alaskan crab every day, and I eat it off the small of my head writer's back.

Ew, why? Yeah, Mike Sweeney has to get on all fours. I ladle out this crab that's been shipped in, in a private plane. And I lay it onto his small back and then I eat it with a tiny little silver spoon. So anyway, yes, I will buy you that jacket. I will buy you that jacket.

No, actually, I'm not kidding. It would mean a lot to me to replace that thing that's been lost. It would also mean a lot to me to keep making fun of you. I know, that's what I know. I'm buying you that jacket. It's a done deal. Okay.

I brokered the deal. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. You are key in this whole matter. 10%. $55. No, seriously, Sona, order the jacket.

I don't know how to do that. No, no, this doesn't work if you don't do it. You've got to order the jacket because the jacket was lost, to be serious for just a second, the jacket was lost in the fire. Yeah. Let's replace it.

Okay, and now I'll represent you. He'll buy it, but you have to bring it in and we do a segment about it. I will, I'll bring it in. I will definitely bring it in because I'm going to wear it probably all the time. So buy the jacket and don't have me reimburse you. I have to buy the jacket.

I have your credit card. I know you do. What? Yeah. She has my credit card. Why aren't we living high on the hog? I know. She's actually done okay for herself.

There have been many times where Sona, how many drinks do you think you've had on old Uncle Conesy without Uncle Conesy even knowing it? All over the years. Without you even knowing it? Before you even became a responsible member of society. Quite a bit. Yeah.

I love it, I love it. But I think it's also the least you could do for me. Yeah. So you're welcome. It was always showed up on my Emix statements as least I could do. Least you could do for Sona. And then it would be like, oh my God, you dropped $1,800 at a bar.

Yeah, so we're done. It's a done deal now. You're getting that jacket. I will pay for it. You will wear it. And that is my way of making all of your loss go away. Oh! Jesus Christ. Does that cover it?

The one leather jacket you lost in your house. Yeah, the one leather, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Too bad he didn't make fun of your house. Yeah. That house is no house. All right, let's get into it. My guest today, starred in Arrested Development, now co-host the popular podcast, Smartless,

alongside my arch enemies, Will Arnett and Sean Hayes. I am very thrilled that this gentleman is joining us today. This is first time, this is very cool. I bullied him into coming here. Jason Bateman, welcome. You know, the question is, are you Conan O'Brien's friend if you aren't invited to his Christmas party? And you know, there's so many hundreds of people.

We've straightened this out. No, thousands are invited to the Christmas party. I invite thousands and about 50 come. Listen, we're gonna just, cause this has been a thing and then I went on smart lists recently, about you coming to the Christmas party and it was a thing for a while.

You claim you weren't invited. I was shocked that there was a Christmas party. That the Christmas party had been going on for years. But you were, I think you were shocked that Christmas was celebrated. I was shocked. Because you're such a Grinch. That Christmas had something to do

with your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I was like. Well, listen, the point is you, you know, let's talk about smart lists. It's a juggernaut, you guys are. It's a pretty hard pivot. It's a real, I mean, it was a four wheel slide. Can I say something?

Right? I just broke my hip pivoting. But no, the point I'm trying to make is, of you three guys, you got Will Arnett, you got Sean, is it Hayes? Yeah, I think it's H-A-Z-E. Okay. And then you're Jason-

Bateman. Bateman. Okay. And then you're Jason. Bateman. Bateman. Okay, there's the three of you. And you're the one that I have trouble getting a beat on. I gotta say. You're the one, you're squirrely. You're squirrely, Bateman.

I've always had a problem getting a beat on you. A huge fan of yours. I adore you, but I can't get a beat on the guy. I can't. Cause you can sense that I'm not sure why I'm there. And I don't really, I'm not really sure if I... I don't get it. I don't understand why people listen to it.

I get that Will and Sean are appealing fellas. That's why they're two of my best friends. And we're not doing anything more than just the drivel that happens when we're in a car more than just the drivel that happens when we're in a car together or at a dinner or how, I just don't think that that's monetizable. That you should ask for people's attention to listen to that. Yep. That you can monetize.

First of all, I agree with it about your podcast. I agree because I've checked it out and I'm like, I can't believe that this is something, I mean, this, what we're doing here. You've got a full, you've got an array of talent here. And you've probably done some- Hold on a second, let me put my glasses on. Jeez, even we would disagree with that. You've done some prep, right?

I can see questions there. No, no, no, this is your medical history. Oh. This is your medical history. You've got a handsome studio, you've got cameras around. This is very professional. Yeah, also. We're on a Zoom.

Also, can I just point out, I've been interviewing people around the clock since 1993. I'm a seasoned professional on what Muhammad Ali was to boxing, I am to interviewing. We can cut all this out. Yeah, well. You need lifts. Yeah.

Yeah. But, yeah, you guys with this Oh, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho He's got a darkness that's fun to follow. A voice that's not bad to listen to. No, I buy whatever truck he's selling. Right? I mean, as long as it's professional grade. He's got an opinion and he'll let you know it. Sean P. Hayes is sure is just pure sunshine and is curious and is warm. And I'm trying to find the lane

that I'm supposed to be in, which is the area in between those two, which I guess is just sort of listening and asking questions that I think the normal guy wants to know. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so I feel I'm easily replaceable.

Yes, yes, I was gonna say the same thing. Yeah, right. I was gonna say, I'm glad you said it. I'd be too. No, no, no, I think you could come, you could go, you know, whatever. Which is kind of what I do in whatever the hell I do on camera too. I'm trying to just kind of be us.

Okay, I'm gonna draw a parallel to what I maintain, and I've said this to Mr. Arnett many times, is one of the finest comedy television shows of all time. I maintain, and I've said this to Mr. Arnett many times, is one of the finest comedy television shows of all time. And I take this stuff, as you know, very seriously, my television comedy loves and my interests. I think Arrested Development is one of the finest, finest pieces of work done in television comedy.

And I think that you are hilarious and essential in that show because... I'm surrounded with funny folks. No, you're miss... But that's not it. You're not just the guy who's yes-ending all of the funny people. You're doing it in a hilarious way. You're taking it all in.

You're trying to understand. You do a beautiful job in that show. As being our proxy, right? Like if somebody says something wacky, you've got someone you can turn to and give a ground to bounce off of, right? I mean, like there's nothing funny about Martians on Mars. I'm like, I'm earth and they're the Martians

and now there's something that's popping, right? Yeah, but that is a very hard thing to do. It's in the history of comedy, straight men were always listed first. So it was Martin and Lewis. It was Abbott and Costello. And it was because a good straight man was actually harder to find than a good wacky person.

And that is the history of comedy, is that the act was controlled by the straight man, Burns and Allen. It was always controlled by the straight man who was, it was a skill that was seen as more appreciated. So without getting too heavy, too serious, which I've probably done, I thought you did an absolutely stellar,

remarkable job on that show. Thank you, sir. And you're underselling yourself when you say- Thank you. I'm just looking to get you to continue talking in a flattering way about me. I'm trying to continue to tee you up. I'm just- So I'm not really sure what you...

Explain, I sound confused. What you did. Yeah. Like Picasso. No, you know what's really nice? It's been, I've told this to Arnett a million times, but that show was a very key bonding element for my son and I because my son has a very keen eye

for comedy and really liked certain shows. And when he discovered Arrested Development, that was it. He was 58. Yeah. I had him a long time ago. You look great by the way. I've had so much done to me and for me. No, I wanna say he was 11, 12, and chapter and verse.

There's not an episode I can name and we've watched them repeatedly. So sometimes when he's blue or we'd be somewhere, it would be, okay, there are certain specific episodes that we would watch. Was the medicine. Just was the medicine. Yeah, and it's nice because we all knew what's coming

because we've seen them a thousand times. And I bet, how old is he now? He is 19. Yeah, I'll bet. I bet if he old is he now? He is 19. Yeah, I'll bet if he watched them again, that you'd see, I still see stuff, you know, like I've been seeing it for a few years, but I saw a clip of something. I was just like, it's just kind of noticing,

like Mitch, Mitch Hurwitz, who's the reason the whole thing is so funny. He just has a sort of this appetite for humor that exists on more than even the standard two levels. Like he's not even happy if it doesn't work on like four or five levels. Right. And so the older you get or the more jaded you get or whatever, you start to see like level four and five or whatever the hell it would be to to the point where, I mean, me personally,

I started to just think it was too confusing for my little bird brain towards the end there. Like, there were just layers and layers and layers. He would have to come to the set and explain to us, me particularly, what the relevance of this line was, or this scene was, and sometimes it was because certain scripts weren't available, which paid off what I was

trying to either establish through some of this exposition, because I was usually the exposition guy, or I was the guy that had to give a knowing look, signifying relevance about something that was a little opaque. I would need to know what that means to give a knowing look, signifying relevance about something that was a little opaque. So like, I would need to know what that means to dial in whatever the hell that look would be. And so he would need to come down and sort of like decipher things for me,

go, oh, you need to raise an eyebrow there because the reason that she said eggplant instead of cashew is because of, you know, like you gotta really, like that's gonna mean something to you, you know, anyway. Can't you just give the same knowing look every time? No, I'm not an actor, but, and maybe there's a reason I'm not an actor, but I would just every single time go,

ooh. And just leave it up to the editor to slot it in there. Right. Fix it. Fix it or use some CGI or do something, but you're getting one ooh from me And just leave it up to the editor to slot it in there right at the right time. Fix it or use some CGI or do something, but you're getting one ooh from me and then I'm out the door. I wouldn't take that from Mitch Hurwitz, not for a second. I know. We almost did the movie for a long time.

Remember all that talk? Do you remember that talk about the movie? Yes, I do remember the movie. I was so excited about that. I thought, oh my God, we're going to do it. I remember Matt Damon coming up to me at I think it was like a Golden Globes or something. And I was so excited to meet him.

And he was like, hey, he was a huge fan of Rusted Development. And he was saying, you know, I really think I could play because I hear you guys are doing the, I think I could, can I do you? Can I play? It was just like, oh my God. I like, I went right back to Mitch.

I said, this thing is moving. You know, like, come on. Wait a minute. Why can't you be you? Just be, and I said- Is everybody getting recast? Well, because- I love that there'd be an Arrested Development movie

and all of you would be recast with real actors. Well, that was the sort of the story that Mitch was thinking the story of the Arrested Development movie would be that in the show, Hollywood wanted to make a movie about us. And so we certainly couldn't play ourselves because we're not actors.

But you still get to be yourselves, but yes, I see that. Right, yeah. So like, yeah, Michael Bluth would be on set watching Matt Damon play Michael Bluth and be so excited. Of course, David Cross would play Tobias in the film as well because he was an actor. Tobias was an actor, yeah.

And I think our net was pretty close to getting Farrell to play Jobe and it would have been pretty cool. It could still happen. No, I don't think anybody gives a shit. I think they do. I think it's done. I think one call from me and it's happening. Oh, I don't think anybody gives a shit. I think they do. I think it's done. I think one call from me and it's happening. Oh.

I think you're... When I say call, I mean on an old 1940s phone. Because I'm so out of touch with what kind of pull I have in this town. Your son would be the only guy in the theater. That's not true. Tons of fans. At least nine fans. There's one image I have in my head which is Will Arnett is trying to sneak in Jeffrey Timbure in a stretch limo and of course he has his stupid puppet Franklin with him who

is- Which you couldn't do today. Couldn't do today or maybe racially insensitive puppet. But at one point there's this second where you think the guard's not gonna let him in that the guard's been offended by this puppet and then the guard says, and the guard says, wait a minute, you're all gonna have to step out of the car and there is a zoom and there's a zoom in on a terrified Arnett, there's a zoom on a terrified in the back seat, Jeffrey Tambor,

and then a zoom in on the ventriloquist dummy Franklin. And I think I've watched that with my son 75 times. And it's just, I've memorized it. It spends, I don't know. It just fills me with delight over and over and over again. So that's, I mean, to a larger point, you've had with Smartless, Arrested Development, Ozark, you've been able to play in this very rich environment

and have this crazy success. And every now and then I get to talk to people on this podcast who sort of, they got to have their cake and eat it too. And you're one of those people who I think has had this lovely arc where you start as a child actor, which is not a promising start for many people. And it really doesn't work to the point

where there've been times where I thought, should they just make it illegal to be a child actor? Or force them to go into secondary education. Yeah. Like, you know, I didn't even, I didn't- How old were you when you got your first, you did a serial commercial when you were 10? Yeah.

I mean, it was a very tangible, I don't remember a lot, but I do remember being really filled with anxiety about being able to continue to make a living in a business that I was pretty aware that it was tenuous at best, you know, that it was fickle. Even as a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even as a kid, you're, I think you did

Little House on the Prairie, some commercials. You're on Silver Spoons. I could see kids having two reactions to that. One, oh, I've landed in Candy Land. I'm in Oz. This is just amazing. But you had the emotional intelligence to be anxious about it and think,

I don't know if this is going anywhere. Yeah, I mean, and I apologize to any listeners that have heard me twat on about this before, but it was, you know, my parents were my managers and they were making more money doing that than what they were, my mom was a flight attendant for Pan Am, my dad was a freelance writer, director, producer, and you know, 15% of what I was making

at that time just ended up being more than what they were making in their careers. And so it became an important component to our nut, our overhead. Like we were living in a certain condo that we wouldn't be able to live in if they were just using their salaries. And so you need a work permit to work as a little kid wouldn't be able to live in if they were just using their salaries.

You need a work permit to work as a little kid before you're 18. That work permit is renewed every six months based on you maintaining a C average in school. The pressure on midterms and finals every year was immense for me because it was 60% of your grade. And so studying for those and making those, and if I fail a midterm, I don't get my work permit, which means I'm kicked off the show, which means everyone on the show loses their job, we lose our house. Right. And plus I was also seeing just the churn of folks that were hosting Saturday Night Live

one week and then a year later you just never hear from them or maybe even a few months. I was aware, I was consuming pop culture. All of these touch points of adult responsibility were really tangible for me, which is curious then why I didn't get my high school diploma. I didn't go to college. I just doubled down. Thankfully, I was still doing a show until I was about 21, 22, I think, called The Hogan Family.

This was after Silver Spoons, after It's Your Move. Then when that ended, then there was this arid plane of my 20s of employment. Like I'd get like one job a year and I'd kind of keep my head above water, but there was no cash cushion whatsoever because I was trying to catch up for all the time I'd lost being a kid too. So I was playing really hard in my 20s. And I'm flying all over the place and paying for my friends' tickets. And, you know, so I didn't have a lot of money at all.

In fact, I was in debt by the time I was in my 30s by the time Arrested Development came around. And I was really thinking at that point, so the acting thing isn't gonna work for me anymore, kind of like used goods. Television comedy was going in the direction of single-camera comedy. I was known for multi-camera comedy, you know, in front of a live audience.

And so I was kind of, I was just kind of damaged, you know, and especially when I heard about Arrested Development, like here's a single camera comedy, and it's kind of a mockumentary, and it's Ron Howard's behind it, and like they don't want my garbage on that. But managed to guess right and get that job, and it was embraced embraced by the industry and it was that huge reset button for me. But prior to that, I had really, really was, my 20s were not a comfortable period. I was really petrified about being able to support myself and have the rest of my career not be anti-climactic.

I thought about liquidating what little I did have, literally cashing out and literally putting what cash I had in a duffel bag, driving to the Bradley Terminal at LAX, looking up on that board, picking a city, and going and just kind of unplugging from this kind of, not rat race, but competition. Every night's entertainment tonight, who's doing great? Who's on your show?

I wasn't, and I had been. And so I thought, well, I don't want to continue playing at a game that I'm gonna be losing every single year, so why don't I go to like Tuscany and learn fucking Italian, French, whatever, buy a coffee shop and just start over at the age of 25. I don't have a wife, don't have kids, have a bunch of friends,

but let's go drink into more of those in Europe. So I was very, very getting it back to risk development. That was a total paddles on the chest for me. Do you ever think you blew it, that maybe you should have done that? Gone, yeah. Exactly. I mean, I'm just seriously, this coffee shop thing.

Sounds nice. It sounds like a good coffee shop. It worked out for Starbucks. Really nice. Yeah. Well, whatever. Le Starbucks. Can't go back, I guess.

Can't go back. It guess. Can't go back. It's funny that you talk about that period of time. I had my own experience working on the late night show. We were constantly doing sketches and we would employ, there'd be a sketch that needed a kid to play me from 20 years ago, constantly or a kid who is in the audience, who doesn't understand something,

constantly doing these sketches where we need kids. I remember very clearly sometimes there were kids that came up to me, maybe eight years old. This happened more than once, but they would come up to me and go, excuse me, Mr. Brian, I am Billy. Hi, Billy. Thanks for helping us out today. You're doing a great job at rehearsal.

I just want to say you are a formidable talent. And I could look in the background and see the mother peering out of the dressing room, like, it's formidable, we went over this. Say it. You know, say it so that you're booked again, you fucker. And I was, it bummed me out. Seriously, every now and then, one of those child actors,

one was a little kid who nailed it and turned, who grew up into Scarlett Johansson. Oh yeah? And you're like, okay, that's great. We've, I think we had one or two of those, but for the most part, it is a perilous thing to be a child actor and it's so fickle. And even as adults, full on aging adults for myself,

it's still hard not to pay attention to who's up, who's down, who's where. It takes, and that's with, I didn't have anybody recognize me on the street until I was 30 years old. That's when I got the late night show. And I had a lot of grounding before then. So I have no idea, I think if I had been recognized

or had any kind of cache when I was 11 years old, I'd be a mass murderer. So I, and a mass murderer. So I- Yeah. And a very good one, methodical. It is a very permissive culture that if you have some sort of success as a kid, you kind of get used to, you know, it's like,

it's junk food and, you know, kids don't have any self-control for junk food. They eat it all up. Right. And you're also learning how to be, how to convincingly be somebody else at the exact time you're trying to figure out who you are. So it's just a big mind fuck too.

And it's a big, it's a minefield to go through. And I'm really fortunate that somehow my sort of, stock engine came out able to kind of navigate that, you know, somewhat decently. I mean, I am nuts. I'm crazy, but I'm functional. I said you're squirrely. I didn't say you were crazy.

Squirrely, hard to get a beat on you. I know there's a lot of stuff there. I don't want to go near. You can get near the cage, just don't start poking around in it. I would drive cross country with Arnett, Sean in a second, you, that's not happening unless, yeah, like you say, there's like a barrier,

a caged barrier. You could be in the back. I'm driving a police car. Be in the back with a privacy glass. No, you're in the back, I'm driving you. I'm dressed as a sheriff and I'm driving you cross country but there's a cage and you're shackled. Every now and then I pass you some green tea. But that's about it, that's all that's happening.

It is interesting to me that a important linchpin of your turnaround, which you say is Arrested Development, the guy behind that, one of the guys behind it and the narrator of the show, Ron Howard, famously one of the few examples of a child star who just nailed it in his adult life and seemed to make every right call. Did he ever give you any insight into that world?

Only by example. Like during the vast wasteland of my 20s, in an attempt to try to self-educate, I'd watch a lot of news. I was a big fan of Charlie Rose. I'd watch that show religiously. And Ron Howard was on it once. And I remember watching his interview and Ron Howard is,

at all times it seems, just the most gracious, magnanimous guy you'd ever find. So I'm watching him just be incredibly warm and kind. He's not doing that because he needs to kiss Charlie Rose's ass or that he's nervous about being on the show or golly gosh or what. He's just genuinely that and is not worried about coming

across as an ass kisser or eager or he's just being as kind as he is and is not worried about masking that. Because if you grew up in the sort of cynical environment I grew up in, it's like, well, make sure you look like you don't want it, or make sure that girl can't tell that you like her. Like, be mean, or when you go on an audition, make it seem like you don't really want it,

or that it's an inconvenience. Whatever toxic crap I was listening to as a kid, he was completely at odds with that, with his. So anyway, so I remember sitting there watching that interview and going, if I ever get relevance again, any sort of industry capital again, the greatest thing about it will be

that I will be able to be as kind as I want to be and not worry about it coming across as being too eager and wanting the job or, you know? And then I got Arrested Development, like working for this guy. And, you know, he did all the voiceovers. He was never really on set. So I never really met him until after the show

had been going for a while. And eventually I, and I think it was pretty late, maybe four or five years into, I finally had dinner with him and I told him the story and I told him the story and I told him about what- Did he narrate the dinner? He should have.

And then he told you to fuck off. He did, yeah. He pulled the mask back. He said, yeah, fooled another one. Jason seemed perplexed. He wanted the eggplant risotto, but he didn't know if it was gonna be too heavy. Yeah, I think he understood what I was saying,

that not only his example kind of provided this North Star for me, but the actual show itself gave me the capital that I was reaching for, hoping for, that I could stop kind of acting twice going into interview, auditions, kind of like trying to be like, kind of like, oh yeah, what's up everybody, you know? And it's fucking such a douche bag.

I was just like, and of course it would make me incredibly nervous because I've got to pull off that performance and now it's time to do the audition. And you know, now I got to pull off this one. I was just like exhausted. Well, they say it's exhausting to be a pathological liar because you have to keep all of your stories straight.

And it is exhausting to have to put on a persona to then audition for something where you're then another persona. But then if you don't get it, you have to switch into the persona, which is I didn't really need it anyway. I'm cool, I'm good. It's just garbage.

So thankfully I kind of got through that to a certain extent, but it was painful. I mean, my twenties were just like, it was fun, but a real sort of head trip for me, because I'm transitioning from like all of that fame and success and easy road to not making as much money, not having the actual sustenance to, because my confidence came from my work.

Now that I don't have the work, now what do I have the confidence on? And I was just like, ay, ay, ay. Nine people out of 10 who went through what you went through would not, it would not have worked out. Can you identify something in you that helped you say, okay, I'm partying too much, this has to stop, I need to.

There is an inner resource that you have that 90% of people in your situation would not have. But I, and I, perhaps, but I think everybody's got it because all it was was just goals and foresight and vision. And, you know, everybody has a way they like to think of themselves. And there are certain things that you can't do

and certain things that you want to achieve and incorporate that make that vision legit. I knew I wanted to be a dad, I wanted to be a father, and I'm sorry, I wanted to be a husband, a dad, and I wanted to direct a movie as an adult. That was what I always said to myself as a kid. And so I knew I had to do certain things to make those three things happen.

I had to build up sort of acting capital to be able to say, hey, now I want to direct the famous T-shirt, right? I couldn't be like, you know, a fucking drug addict and a drunk and expect to have any sort of relationship that had any legs. And then being a father follows that.

So I knew I had to kind of wind down the 20s fun at some point. And I didn't know, do you get rid of all that stuff and then the work will come or should I wait for the work to come to be sort of like, you know, the little pacifier that allows me to like stop doing all the other stuff. It ended up kind of all happening at the same time,

which was nice. But yeah, I guess it would just be that. So I don't think I'm not that special. I think everybody wants certain things for themselves in the future. And I think it's just be that. So I don't think I'm not that special. I think everybody wants certain things for themselves in the future. And I think it's just about having perhaps the discipline to say, okay, kind of got to do X, Y, and Z to get to A, B, and C.

And at what point do you want to start to implement that plan? I've never ever had any ambition to direct anything. I admire that skill immensely. And I think part of me is a little curious if someone put a gun to my head and said, you have to direct something, what I would do. You'd be great. But I don't understand what it is,

but I know that you directed quite a bit on Ozark. You must have been watching the whole time. I mean, this was go back to when you were a kid where you're watching other people make these decisions. Someone explained to me once a lot of directing is making choices. Do you want this or do you want that? So you're watching that and saying,

I wanna be doing that. Yeah, it was Michael Landon on Little House on the Prairie. So right as I was starting to like, I'd done a couple of years of commercials and stuff like that, but I was starting to really kind you know, I'd done a couple of years of commercials and stuff like that. But, um, but I was starting to really kind of notice what, what this magic trick is of making fake life. Like, okay. So you point like, you know, cause we all look through the paper towel tube when we're a kid, you know,

and like, you know, you kind of like, you know, you make that little tunnel that you're seeing stuff through and outside that tunnel that stuff you can't see, like that's where all the gap can be right. Like the microphone and the lights and all that stuff. And so just inside that tube needs to be pristine. And so I started to watch directors and crews kind of create this fake life. And Michael Landon was the director, executive producer, star, writer.

Everybody loved him. What did you, what was he like? I just, because I grew up. He was George Clooney. My brother's obsessed with Bonanza and has been his whole life and has made sure that all of us around him watched almost every episode of Bonanza.

So even though, yes, I know he went on to Little House in the Prayer and everything, I just can't believe that's Joe Cartwright. I can't believe you even knew him. Right, right, right. What was he like as a person? He was, George Clooney would be like the perfect comparison today.

His ease with people, with the process, with the business, with just Joe on the street. Women are crazy about him, guys wanna be his buddy. And so watching him juggle all those balls and kind of be this leader and presence on a set and be kind with people, but also be kind of a, you know, stern boss if he needs to, that was pretty inspirational.

And so that's kind of where it started that. And my dad never really took me to the park to throw the ball. He'd take me to art houses, to like watch foreign films and show me what directing is and what acting is and what's good and what's bad. What if he only took you to art houses and showed you bonanzas?

Here's one where this, these cattle rustlers come to town. Michael, there we're gonna show a Truffaut film here, but we shut that down. This is gonna be the Bonanza where, okay, all right. But that's beautiful that he did that. Yeah, yeah, I mean, in retrospect it was because it kind of planted the seed.

Yeah. Yeah, and then it just kind of went on from there and I was always sort of tracking it and wanting to do it and so paying attention to every set I was on after Little House. And then I actually went and spoke to the producers of the Hogan family when I was 18 to see if there could be a slot

for my dad to direct an episode. And while I was talking to the producers about that, they said, yeah, for sure, and do you want to direct one? And I said, yes, please, and ended up doing that. And then that was just sort of like, well, I guess now I can do this. It's a different thing directing stuff in front of a studio. It's more like directing a stuff in front of a studio.

It's more like directing a play, to be fair. But still it was, it got me my DGA card. And I thought, you know, and then I was really pursuing that career when Arrested Development came around. I was following James Burroughs around, Jimmy Burroughs around and watching, he's a, for the listeners who don't know,

he was like the most famous. The Babe Ruth of all the great, Cheers. Yeah, sitcom directors. Sitcom directors, friends. Yeah, I was like, well, I want to turn my history of doing sitcoms into a positive instead of the negative that I felt it was at the time and let all that experience maybe get me hired

as a director. And so I wanted to be like the new Jimmy Burroughs. And then Arrested Development came along. My quick, this just popped in my head, but literally a couple of months ago, I had to go back to Boston quickly, see my family, and I always stay in the same hotel, and I get on my elevator to go down to the lobby,

and it stops on another floor, and Jimmy Burroughs gets on. Really? And this is a hotel that's right on the park, literally maybe 60 feet from the Cheers Bar. Yeah. And I'm headed down and Jimmy and I are talking and I said, hey Jimmy, wanna go over to the Cheers Bar? Hang out?

And he went, no. I don't know why that popped into my head. I've been in there. That's a cool spot. Sure. People go there. It's like people that go to the central, one of the central coffee shops

and think they're gonna see Jennifer Aniston. They feel cheated that they're not. It's a bar. But, yeah, I think the salvation is, if you get into the work, like for me, when I hear you talk about all this, is that you were very interested in making the stuff and the work.

And to me, that was always the salvation. I wanted my goal. If you asked me when I was 20, what's your goal? I would say, I would like to have a body of work, which sounds incredibly pretentious, but that's what I wanted. People could like it, they could hate it, but I just wanted when I was done

to have stuff that I had made that- As a writer. As a writer, as a whatever, just as a performer, as a whatever. Did you have on-camera aspirations at that time? I, you know, it's so funny. I knew that I could get a job as a writer, but I always was a performer as a writer.

So I was always the guy that would get up and do stuff. At Saturday Night Live, I would do things in front of the other writers, start doing something and they would be laughing. And Lauren would notice this. And Lauren would notice it, but also the writers would say, that's a sketch that guy you're doing right now.

And I'm just doing it because something's wrong with me. Or you're trying to make it more, you're trying to get your point across to the other writers that this is what it needs to be, or that this sketch works if you make it more, you're trying to get your point across to the other writers that this is what it needs to be, or that this sketch works if you play it paranoid. And so you've got to like do it. Not even that, there were oftentimes when I wasn't pitching a sketch, I was just doing.

Yeah. You've seen it, Sona, where I'll just come in and I'll just be doing something that strikes me as funny or odd and- That's all you do. That's kind of all I do. I don't know the real you. Right. And then we got to SNL and I was doing that for someone

like Odenkirk or Smigel and they said, no, that's a sketch. That's a sketch. And I was like, oh, that's just a thing that I do. Right. And then that was- I could just write that that I do. Right. And then that was- I could just write that down and make a living.

Many of the things that I've, over the years that I wrote for SNL or any of the things that I over the years did on late night were just things that I did. Sometimes I would do them in the shower. Right. And my wife to this day will hear me in the shower saying, you've got some nerves.

And um. Well, Dave, I've just grown accustomed to it, but that's where that came from. MUSIC Have you ever, and I apologize if it exists, and I haven't seen it, but have you ever spent time doing multiple characters along with your writing as you would have done had you been on camera at SNL?

What do you mean? Well, like inhabiting multiple characters, playing some French pastry chef and then playing a mechanic and then as you do as a cast member. I think we've done bits where I've been different people, but. Not on the talk show, no, right?

Where you like dress up in costume and there's a wig and there's prosthetic, just like an SNL cast member. Yeah, it's interesting because I always, when I was at SNL, I never looked at Dana Carvey or any of those guys and thought, I could be doing that. Because I always knew the difference. I always knew, there have been things where we would shoot something,

we did something with Lee of Shriver once, which was a parody of that show, Studio 60. Remember there was a show that was a very serious. Yeah, the Aaron Sorkin show. Aaron Sorkin show, kind of a, he took a West Wing approach to like a Saturday Night Live and people were giving him a hard time for it. We decided to do a parody of it.

And so Liev Schreiber, we got him to play me. So Liev Schreiber has the Conan hair. And my favorite thing is, we got me a thin mustache, and you could probably see it online, and waxed back my hair, and I played the producer. And I'm talking to Conan, and I'm saying, God damn it, Conan! You know, women want to be with you, men want to be you, you've got it all, the looks, the chucks, and Leif Schreiber's brooding. And I'm talking about Conan in this, you know.

What was this on? It was on the late night show, you know. I mean, we did thousands and thousands of hours of late night shows and we would fill. So I guess the point is that for me, it's always been, I'm gonna quote my dad, and I've quoted him many times on the show with this exact same line, but he always said, you're making your living off of something

that should probably be treated, because it's very manic and I can't not do it. And I do it, I just got back from a vacation with my wife and kids, I did it there. They just tune it out. They're not interested. As kids, I would call my kids together when my wife was not around and I would say,

kids, kids, your mother's gone and I need to talk to you. And they would gather around me and they would look up at me and go, is this real or is this a bit? And I'd go, it's just that I think, and they'd go, it's a bit, and walk away. So it's that 24 seven. I love that, I love being just a total whack job

with my kids sometimes, but it's such an unreliable audience. I mean, they're determined not to laugh. Of course. Right? So it's pain for you and for me to do that. But also I love it and it's- Because if you can crack them, you've got something.

But also it's as it should be. If your children are laughing and saying, God, dad, you're the greatest. You got a problem. You have a real problem. They want something. Yeah, Dad. You're the greatest. You're the greatest. You got a problem. You have a real problem. They want something. Yeah, exactly. My eldest, Franny, she's 18.

She's just recently, I don't know, like in the last year, gotten into directing. Like she's starting to really look at films and kind of understand what a director does. And so she wants to pursue that. And I guess some, and she's never watched anything I've done. Not maybe one, I think it's weird for her to see me pretending to be somebody else,

or she also has a real hard time with me getting hurt. And I'm often getting the pie in the face. And so I guess somebody in her class or somebody started watching Ozark or something and went up to her and said, hey, you know, you're dead and this thing's really good. I just remember like a year or so ago she came home and she was like, she basically, well I don't remember

the words, but she basically said for the first time kind of, so you do this, you do this thing that I'm interested in. Tell me about what- But that is so healthy. Well, it's healthy, yes, but it was also so exciting for me that like she has an appreciation, she thinks what I do is cooler, that she might realize, oh, dad can answer a question for me.

How do you do that shot? Is that a steady cam? Is that Dolly Track? Anyway, so now we've been having an incredible time bonding over films and directing and things like that. But it's great that they don't give it up until it's something that's really kind of interesting. And in other words, she's not fascinated with my fucking job that I just go off and go do.

Just like any kid wouldn't be like, hey, dad, tell me about your day at work today. How was, you know, what was it like at the office? Like, who cares? You know, it's just be my dad. And I appreciate that because it's kind of, I had a bit of a hybrid experience of that at best as a kid. There wasn't really that really healthy dynamic

of deference to parents as you're sort of the adults you aspire to be and you could only ever reach for and you'll never be as old as them. Like I was colleagues with my parents at a very early age. You were peers. Yeah, exactly. You worked with each other. Exactly, and so that was sort of,

I had to learn to adapt and not, you know, live a childhood that didn't really have that. So I love that she has sort of kept me at this place. It was like, yeah, dad goes to work, who gives a shit? You know, like he's just my dad. I remember doing the late night show and Bruce Springsteen was performing on the show and Patty's there, his wife is there.

And then at one point he's talking and then he leaves the room. And I said something like, he had just told a joke or something and she like rolled her eyes and I was, she said, yeah, when he does his jokes around the kids, they're like, God, dad. And I was like, that's Bruce Springsteen. Yeah.

But no. No. In the very best way, they're annoyed. Right. Oh, God. Yeah. He's actually starting underwater, actually. You know?

Yeah. Well, he talks about the iconic dancing in the dark video where he pulls Courtney Cox on the stage at the end. In his biography, his autobiography, he talks about pulling her up on stage and he does the dance with her. His kids finally saw that years later and they were horrified.

At that dance move. At his dance move. And they just relentlessly gave him shit for it. Like went back on it and kept showing it to him and going, what the fuck are you? But you know, in 1985, that was it. It was amazing. And he was Bruce Springsteen,

but no, it doesn't matter anymore. Now it's just this embarrassing footage you found of your dad. How old are your kids? My son is 19 and my daughter's 21. And how, so then when you started doing the late night show, that was, what was that? 93.

So I was 30 years old. I didn't meet my wife. I didn't meet my wife for another 10 years. So how would they, I mean, when they started, when they were old enough to kind of intellectualize that that's my dad up on that billboard, how did that go? I think they just, they took it really well, but I'll never forget, I did it shows at Comic-Con,

Spreckles Theater, huge theater. My wife, Wiza came down, she brought my son, who's kind of interested in sci-fi. He was a little kid at the time, maybe five. He sat in the theater, he saw the band playing, he saw fans. I mean, place is packed, three tiered theater. I mean-

And up until now, you've just been just that annoying dork around the house. Yeah, and so he's watching it, and then I come out and I do the show, and he sees people getting really excited and laughing and having a good time. And then he's walking out with his mom, my wife, and we're walking out.

He's walking out and he said to her, "'When I grow up, I wanna do something where there's no stage and no audience. No. And it was just like, I wanna do the opposite of what that guy's doing. Because he thought that was sort of, it was scary. I think for whatever reason, he just knew,

whatever that guy's doing, that's not what I'm gonna do. And he's highly intelligent and very good and has a completely different skill set than gonna do. And he's highly intelligent and very good and has a completely different skillset than I do. Not interested in doing anything. No, no, not at all. But he'll actually have a legitimate life. Right, exactly. Exactly.

One that's built on credentials. Yes, and actual knowledge. Right, yeah. Knowledge of real things, not like us. No, we're show folk. And I've always kind of liked that for some reason, bizarre reason in the mid 20th century, being in show business started to have cache

and then it has only grown. And I'm someone who reads a lot of history and I studied history before the 20th century for hundreds and hundreds of years, people that worked in show business were thought of as, just use the back door. And no, you're not, you cannot, you can't come in. You do your thing and then get the fuck out of here

and take your little, you know, and I've always thought, I do think that's the way we should be treated. Right. Instead of throwing ourselves award shows and like... You know, exactly, I've always thought, no, we're show folk, we're damaged. We're pure entertainment, we're the jesters, you know, that should come in and out through the back door. Yeah.

Yeah, right after the food comes. I should not be, I should not be given the food that the other people are getting, I should get some cold food. Well, I mean, you're right. I mean, we're not doing anything that complicated, you know? We're not doing things that are vital. We're not building infrastructure, you know?

We're like, we're not solving problems. We're creating problems. We're creating problems. We're pacifying people in between their thoughts, you know? I'm glad I got you to admit that your life is a sham. Oh my God. But it's certainly not like, you know. You've gone too far, you've gone too far.

I think what you and I do is vitally important and I'll also posit more important than anything being done in science, in medicine. You're right about that. Yeah. So you've completely changed your mind from 15 seconds ago. I wanna wrap this up,

but I do wanna tell you that you started off this interview by selling yourself very short in a way that I found kind of appalling, which is I think what you do on smart lists and also what you did so beautifully on Arrested Development and what you've really done in your career is you're channeling something that to me is very essential. You're fucking so smart as a performer, as an actor.

And seriously, I think, I mean, Arrested Development is a great example of where you're fucking so smart as a performer, as an actor. And seriously, I think, I mean, Arrested Development is a great example of where you're holding, you are the center of all of that. You're seeing everything and yes, that is a huge job. That is, and that could have been done wrong a billion different ways. And so- I appreciate you saying that for sure.

But I also think, I would know if, you know, Arnett and Hayes babbling the two of them, I couldn't listen to that for six seconds. You know? Just to- Without, yeah, without the third color going in there, you've just got red and green. You've got red, and then also a very annoying red

and a very annoying green. And then you're this like essential taupe. Yes. It's just, it's surrounding it. Sweating azure. It's, no, I'm, we fuck around a lot. And, but I, anytime that you would come to my home, be at a Christmas party or anytime would be a big deal.

It'd be a huge deal. No, no, no, I know. A huge deal. It's a a huge deal. A huge deal. It would be a big deal for me. And my son's hair would fall out and his teeth. And before you kick me out, I would like to thank you for being so nice to us at Smartless and helping us out repeatedly. It's really, you know, you learn a lot about people when it's so easy to say no in our business.

You know, there's layers of people between the ask and the answer that you can easily slide in a no or I'm busy or something. You never have. I'll be honest with you. I love playing with you guys. It is that simple. I've never had a real conversation with Will Arnett.

We only play to the point where we were scolded once. I think. By one of your wives? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, knock it off you two. Before we even got started, it was knock it off you two. My wife says the same thing,

what's with the fucking bits? Do you guys ever really, guys just suck. Do you guys ever really, she'll come home all the time and she'll say, yeah, what did Will feel about the party last night or the dinner yesterday? I don't know, he liked the food. No, no, no, did he talk about, no, you guys never, you guys never process anything.

No, it's all bits. It's like, well that, but like, dudes don't really process shit. Like if there's a problem, we figure it out. But we're not sitting in there just like needing the bread about yesterday, figuring out what the side door might think of it. It's just always through the front door on everything.

That's why anytime there's been any kind of smartless ask from the very beginning, I thought that's being asked to go play ball with three people who you love to play ball with. And I'm using that analogy because I'm a terrible athlete. And so I'm being very vague about play ball. Jesus. Which ball?

Shut up, Sona. Go pass the old puck around with your mitt. But anyway. You've always been an easy play. You were always my favorite talk show to do because you can do those pre-interviews till the cows come home and most shows stick on them, always when you sit down and start talking with you,

you would just start a conversation. We just wanna have fun. And then all of a sudden, the 10 minutes would go by. Yeah. It's such a nerve wracking thing for me doing talk shows. It's like crazy. That's why this format. Or at least it used to be why this format is so much fun.

Truly starting to do your show was like, oh, it can be like this. It was great. It was great, great, great. Well, I'm glad we like each other now. Let's just throw a two man party. Yes, just the two of us. Make sure everyone knows about it.

It's just you and I. It's just you and I. Even Aniston can't get in. No. She can serve us. She can bring us the food. Jennifer's outside. Yeah, yeah, tell her we're good.

We're good. God bless you, Jason Bateman. Go forth, continue to do amazing stuff. My best to the gang over at Smartless. I will tell them. I'm feeling now even better about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Wow, we've notched from an 11% acceptance of me to an 18%. It was pretty good at the beginning.

Even better now. All right, take care. Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam Avsesian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross and Nick Leow. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burins. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnik. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan?

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