Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Jason Segel

Episode Date: February 20, 2023

Actor Jason Segel feels very happy about being Conan O’Brien’s friend.Jason sits down with Conan to chat about the real-life inspiration behind Forgetting Sarah Marshall, joke texts from Anthony Hopkins, and his new tv series Shrinking. Later, Conan and his team get administered a professional hearing test.

Hi, my name is Jason Siegel, and I feel very happy about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Check this out, choppers. Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, and of course, no man is an island. No one can do this themselves. You started this by saying, check this out, choppers, like you're gonna lay something amazing on us, and that was it. Oh, before I went on mic, I said, check this out, choppers. My favorite thing is to say, check this out, and then do a very mundane thing. I think it's, it's always made me laugh to be, like, walking up to an elevator and turn to someone I don't even know and go, check this out, and then hit the down button. It, it amuses me to no end, probably nobody else.

Nobody else. But I am excited you're both with me, as I always am. I know, this is nice. Sonam of Sassian, Matt Gorley, good to have you guys here. It's nice to be here. You know, I am, there is something I want to bring up today, okay, and that is that the good news is, I think people listen to the podcast because I've had a bunch of friends reach out to me. More than one, I'd say it's three friends have reached out to me independently of each other, and they've said, I have a good doctor who could help you with your hearing loss. And I didn't know what they were talking about. And then I remembered we did the shows in New York. And you remember, there was a Q&A at the end, and a young, a young man stood up who was,

I think from Brooklyn, if I remember correctly. And he said, I asked him what he did, and he said that he is someone who checks for hearing loss. And I said, oh, I should get checked out. I should come in. It was all, you know, we weren't, we were kind of joking around, but I just was making conversation. And I've had a bunch of people reach out and say, you need to get your, I have a good doctor for you, because I realized that you're struggling with this hearing loss. And it's not true. I mean, I don't know that I am. I don't think that I am. But I realized that it was a good way to get sympathy. Oh, the story took a weird turn. Well, I just realized that all I have to do on the podcast is come up with some kind of malady, and then a lot of loving comes my way.

No, now you're going to get friends texting you going, I know a good therapist for you. You're a sociopath. So what's wrong with you now? Monster? Yeah, what's wrong with you now? What's my nipples? Oh, excuse me. My nipples are three times the size they used to be. Your nipples, not your areolas. Well, can't we just call them nipples? No, guys. This was such a stupid question. The areola is the pancake area around the nipple. Yes. The areola is the pepperoni. The nipple is the little piece of kibble. Yeah. Okay. The areola. It grew. They grew. Much larger. They're the size of hubcaps now. So they overlap? It's like a Mastercard logo? Like a Venn diagram.

One is happiness, the other's misery, and then when they come together is bliss. And that's your sternum, right there in the middle for your heart? Yeah, I've got crazily enlarged. I'm just going to put that out there because I want to start. I don't even know who treats that, but I want to see. I'll take care of it. I want to know. I want to see which listeners say, oh, I'm so worried about Conan's crazily enlarged hubcap areolas. Oh, my God. You know, we'll find out. And then they'll, because what I got from the, from my friends and from other people that didn't even really know that well, they were saying, oh, this doctor,

that doctor, there's a special kind of hearing aid you should use. And I thought, wow, this is, we were just, I'm just making conversation with that young man. What, go ahead. I was going to say, do you really think you don't need it? What do you mean? You are around me a lot. Maybe you do. My wife is always getting annoyed that I can't hear, but that could be just me tuning out

my partner of 21 years. Yeah, it could be. Because I can't hear that. Yeah, I can't anymore. To the moon. Now let's straight to the moon. So who knows, but maybe I do have to get it checked out. You never know. Like, what if you put on in a hearing aid and you're like, oh my God, new world. I could hear amazingly.

What if I put, I got a really good hearing aid and I put it in and I'm walking around and I just suddenly started to hear, that guy's an asshole. Don't worry, he can't hear it. He's deaf. Don't worry. And I just start to hear all of a sudden, I peaked in 98. But it's you saying it. His best work was on the Simpsons.

Top show was a blue light. That's all I hear. You get superhero hearing abilities, you think? Yeah, but all I'm hearing is my own negative inner voices. He thinks the podcast goes out and never goes out. Yeah, my cast is just something that they're keeping him busy with. Have you seen the size of his nipples? My God.

I hear that guy has giant flapjacks for nipples. Venn diagram, just like the MasterCard logo. That's all I'm hearing. They should. They should make a hearing aid that turns up your inner voice. Oh, no. That's awful. I don't like that.

Yeah. I get enough of me. I don't want to hear me. You seem like a very emotionally healthy person. Oh, no. Oh, no. You are. No, I don't.

I think I hide it. I think you're... What do you think, Sona? I think that's a... I thought you were... Yeah, I thought you were too... I think you're on an even keel. No, no, I'm more in league with like how you are.

I have exactly... You're that bad? Well, maybe not that bad. Yeah. Let's not get crazy here. No, that's true. You were just like, I've got the same problems as that guy,

and you're just like just son of Sam. I'm a little like that guy. Son of Sam? Oh, I guess maybe not. No, I just sometimes get a little cranky. I'm more like nephew of Sam. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't see that with you. No, well, I got all my shares of anxiety too. I carry it with me like you do, but I check it at the door because I'm a professional. You don't just blather on about it. Couple of freaks. Hey. Hey, take it easy.

I just thought that would be the worst response. Sorry, I didn't mean that. I care about you too. No, you don't. No kidding, I do. I do. I love you both. I do.

I care about you guys. Yeah. And I want you both to feel good. Because we helped you get a new kitchen. That's right. What? That's all you see. Why are you bringing up my kitchen?

Because right before the podcast, you were telling us, look at the new kitchen I got. And I thought, yeah, I bet I know what helped pay for that. Yeah. Well, you have my job. Exactly.

Yacking on the podcast. Which is my job. It's not a job you're here because you love us. Which is it? Which is it? What do you mean? Can it be both? Which is it?

No. I want it to be both. Choose. Pick a side. Pick one. Money. Sorry. I just did it without thinking.

I mean, I love you guys, but the money keeps me coming back. I'm here because I'm a podcast artist. You are. I give all my money to charity. I do this for the love of the game. Oh. You know what I would say?

You're not a podcaster. You're a pod crafter. You are a true artisan. My anxiety levels have peaked. You are a true artisan of this form. No, there's no such thing. But let's get back to me. OK.

Which is just putting it out there. Rapid hearing loss and ariolas. So imagine you took all the batter and made one pancake, right? And then and then put. It's the whole pan? It's the whole pan. And then you put you just dropped

a little chiclet in the center. That's what we're dealing with here. It's as if Dolly Parton was wearing a kind of bespeckled salmon colored bra. And you just took that bra and flattened it out over your chest. Oh, you made Dolly Parton's boobs. Unlikable.

That's impossible. I don't know. You compared them to ariolas. I'm and I love her boobs. And you guys, you made it bad. No, I don't think you're crazy. Yeah. Anyway, I do appreciate the kind words.

I do think my hearing is fine. Yeah. So friends of the show reach out with your nipple doctors. So which doctor even handles that? I don't know who that is. There's ear, nose and throat. A gynecologist.

No. No. No, there's nipples, pits and bits. NPBs? I'm an MPB. Sir, what kind of doctor I'm an MPB? Nipples, pits and bits. So stupid.

Tits, pits and bits. That's a TPB. Who's our guest today? Mother who? No, I'm not going to do there. Which member? Are we not? You know, usually I'm worried that we've,

because of our filthy talk, we've scared our guest away. Yeah. Not today. Not today. Very excited about our guest today. My guest today has starred in such movies as Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Amazing classic.

I love you, man. And the Muppets, he also played Marshall for nine seasons on the hit series, How I Met Your Mother. Now you can see him in the Apple TV Plus series shrinking. Very excited he's here today. He's a true gentleman. Jason Siegel, welcome. I was upstairs.

We're here at our office complex. I'm going to make it sound bigger than it really is. Complex, yeah. It's a building. No, no, no. It's the old Howard Hughes aircraft company that I purchased. It's well over 85,000 square feet. And it's like stark industries here.

And, but I was upstairs and it's, I can hear everything and I heard you show up and instantly felt everybody here in the building got very happy. People are happy to see you. You must find that a lot. Okay, I think there's a couple of reasons. I've done a lot of things where I'm your best friend. For 10 years I was your best friend

on How I Met Your Mother in the House. And I've been Paul Rudd's best friend in movies a thousand times. So people feel relatable. I think also I have to personally work a little bit hard at happiness internally. Interesting. And so that manifests I think outwardly. So it's a conscious choice you think

that you're making every day to be a happy person. I wake up, I have to work like a little harder to get to zero. And then I like push, yeah. And then I push a little faster. You know, it's interesting. It's probably a lot of, a lot of people might say it's the last thing they would expect because you have, well, first of all, you brought,

you brought a lot of people, a lot of happiness, myself included. Thanks. I'm going to tell a personal story, which is when you were shooting your Muppet movie, you did the sweetest thing. I think I ran into you somewhere on the Warner Brothers lot. No one had ever done this for me before.

You said, hey, if you like, if you have any young kids, which I did, come on by and watch me shoot a scene. And my kids were electrified. And you couldn't have been nicer about it. So you're a genuinely nice person. So when I hear that you have to start a little below zero in the morning, it makes me, I wish that was not the case.

I wish, you know, but everyone has their semi struggles. Everyone's got their stuff. Yeah. Mine's not bad by, by any means, but I like, I found a note from my, that I wrote to my parents when I was like five years old. They actually had it framed for me. I guess I've always been this way.

It said, in like little kid chicken scrawl, now I know that no one likes me, hate Jason. I signed off real strong. I signed off, I signed off hate Jason. Wow. Now, where was this coming from? Was this, I don't know. Was there some sort of weird emotional dysmorphia

or do you think kids really didn't like it? I assume emotional dysmorphia. The thing that's like, moms get it so hard because at the top it said, dear mom and dad, but then I crossed out and dad. Oh no. Yeah, poor moms. I like to side at the last minute, not dad's okay.

Isn't it so, it's such an indictment when you find actual proof like that. I know. My parents found a letter that I wrote when I was six that said, stop me before I kill again. Yeah. And no, but it is, it is like, I remember, I kept journals in the seventies

when I was a really young kid and so much of it, as I recall, was about how anxious I was and how nervous I was. And I didn't want to go to school tomorrow and please help it be okay. And just, and I look at it now and I think, what was that kid so anxious for? Yeah.

Yeah, I look back and wish I could have said like, it all works out okay. But I was also like six four since I was 12. I was always just a little, things were just a little off. At least they felt that way. But you were a good athlete. You played basketball, right? Yeah.

Well, I idolized my brother who's like a star athlete. And so I set out to like try to impress him and I became pretty good as a result. Well, I just thought of something that's kind of funny about little kids writing stuff and the Muppets. We can tie them together. When we, I haven't thought about this in a long time. When we finished the Muppets, we did a test screening

just for little kids. That's great. It was so cool. It was an audience filled with little kids and then we had them fill out forms after about what they liked and didn't like. My character's name is Gary. And so they said, what did you like about the movie? Muppets are fun, the things like that.

Songs are nice. What didn't you like about the movie? And one kid wrote, Gary's face. Oh. It's like so specific. It's so specific. Well, what was that kid's face like? Yeah, damn right.

Yeah, exactly. Actually, I know that kid. That's a good looking kid. Really? Yeah. It was real easy. It was a young Timothy Shalame. He's at the screening.

He was like eight. And he's right. Compared to his face. That's right. Our face is soft. That's right. No matter how they do it. We can go after him.

Yeah, let's get him. That's fantastic. It's the best. This is the best. You know, it is, you do have those moments where no matter what you achieve in this business and you've achieved quite a bit, it doesn't matter. I'm always reminded there's something very humbling.

We're all about five seconds away from being brought right back down to how we felt about ourselves in third grade. Yeah, 100%. I don't think I, one of the really important things I learned and I learned it early, luckily, but it caused like a little, like a version of a breakdown was you're really indoctrinated to believe like these things are going to do it. Yes.

And then if you're like crazy lucky enough to achieve the things, then you find out, oh, it doesn't do it. It's like a scary moment, you know? Yeah, well, I have witnessed that with people time and time again. I've talked about this before, but I call it the revenge of the nerd syndrome where people grow up and they think, if you're unpopular or you don't feel very good about yourself, the fantasy is I'm going to become famous and it's going to fix everything.

And of course it doesn't. And then what you see sometimes is rage, which turns into depression. Yeah. Because rage turned inwards is depression. And that's what I think happens to a lot of people and it's just scientific. It's, they think, because I'm thinking about it, you had had so much success in your 20s.

And you know, really at an early age that you probably came up against it. You start to get into your early 30s and realize, well, wait a minute, I've been, I've made hit movies. I have, I think, done everything you can do in this medium. I'm a star of a huge sitcom for years, nine years. I can say I want to bring back the Muppets and it happens. You have that ability and yet you realize something I'm not thrilled. I think that I was like making a mistake where I bracketed those things from real life.

Like when this stuff is done and accomplished, I will then go live a great real life. But then you're doing this stuff every day for years and years and years. And then I started to realize, oh, I'm missing it. Like my friends are having brunch and kids and like all this stuff. And I'm like, I wrote another script, you know, like something, I'd miss something along the way. I think also like the very thing that makes you able to do it might be the thing that kills you if you don't like take your foot off the throttle.

Especially if you felt awkward as a kid, there's a real like, I will show them quality that is like really helpful motivation, like watch this. I don't know, am I allowed to swear here? Yeah. Yeah, cool. You're actually encouraged. Okay, oh great. Yeah, but you're like, watch this fuckers, you know.

Language. Yeah, sorry. I knew it. We didn't fucking knew it. I knew this trick. Jason, we didn't say the F-bomb. We meant like, damn it, doggone it. I thought you were going to swear like you were going to promise us.

Yeah. When I was wandering through these endless holes. I know, we thought you were going to take an O. Yes. We thought it was going to be, I swear upon my heart. Oh, damn it. On the 20 minute walk through this office, I knew that this was coming. Through our research and development.

It was, I got to take off. I knew it, I knew it. No, but like, so a really interesting, I tend to note these things and try to remember them, but my best friend is a really smart guy, Irish guy. And for you to call us best friends is very nice. It's really sweet. I meant it when I said that thing at the beginning. I am Irish.

Please continue. Yeah. I wrote something like seven years ago and it never got made. And you know how it goes. It's like a parabola, your relationship to the business and things are nice at the moment. And I got a call maybe, hey, maybe we can make that movie after all, right? And I was sitting with my friend. I have a really lovely house in an orchard in Ohio.

And I was sitting there and this thing came out of my mouth. I said, gosh, I hope I make this movie. That'll show him. And then my friend looked at me and he kind of like looked at the orange grove. And he said, Jason, at this point in our lives, who is them? And it was a really important thing. They like shook something loose. Yes.

Yeah. Who's them anymore? And they don't care. Right. Right. Well, first of all, I know exactly who they are. I am going to fucking show them. Damn, Chalamet.

Well, I'm sorry. But what has he got that I don't got? He couldn't be more your opposite. He couldn't be more. What are you talking about? In every single movie. We are both very good looking, talented, young actors. That's right.

He's a young actor. We are. You're a new girl. I am a very powerful actor in my 20s. And for you to fucking say it. You know, we actually had a complete side note. A good friend of mine is uncle to Mr. Timothée Chalamet. And years ago, we were doing this week of shows at Comic-Con.

And my friend, Rodman, said, is it OK if I bring my son and my nephew along? And I went, sure. And they came along. I don't even remember this. But they came to our rap party. And I was, you know, no one was talking to them. So I was chatting with them.

And then I swear to God, he hits like a year later or two years later. And I was telling people on our staff, Timothée Chalamet was at our rap party. And they were so enraged. And I said, I brought him around. I introduced him to all of you. And they were like, yeah, move along to work. Yeah, that's right.

So young. He was so young. But I mean, I think some of the people on our staff beat him. Yeah, they had cudgels. That's what we do. We beat people. Yeah. It was that kind of part.

You know, the parties where if you see someone who's young and doesn't belong there, you're welcome. Get him, you get him. So we really beat the shit out of him. Yeah, we fucked him up. And then they were like, oh, you think he'll come back? He used to be really good looking until you guys got on. Yeah, yeah.

No, no, he was really ugly. And our beating, we beat him. You beat him into beauty. Yeah, you beat him with a pretty stick. Yeah, we sure did. He owes his career to us. And our beat down at the rap party. He got radical plastic surgery after our beating.

And the doctor took off the bandages and like, oh my god. You're gorgeous. You're gorgeous. You can be in June. That's what the doctor said. I do think a lot of mental health is like doing sit-ups. You don't do them and then say, well, I cracked that. Right.

I'm, you know, these abs are here for life. And by the way, I'm just saying this as someone who's... Neither of us do sit-ups. I don't do sit-ups. Neither of us have done a sit-up. I've just... No, no, this morning I sat up in bed and thought I should start doing sit-ups.

And then I asked my wife to help me to the bathroom. No, but I only say this as someone who's heard tell of these sit-ups. But I do think that it is a practice. You have to get into the practice of saying... Because we all do that. There's a voice of, and I don't know what it is, but it's almost like there's this yin-yang part of your psyche. And there's another part that wants to say, wants to create these villains

who don't believe in Jason Siegel. They don't think he's accomplished enough. There's some part of you that wants to create them. So you can say, really? Well, watch this. Totally. But it's manufactured. Yeah.

And I think like one of the things that was important for me was I'm born and raised in Los Angeles. And then my job was here. And I didn't realize ever, I know this sounds naive, but it never occurred to me I had a choice of where you live. I was like, oh, I have to be in LA. And I never quite felt at ease.

And I moved away finally. I finally moved away. I was walking down the street in this little town and someone said, hey, Jace, what are you up to? Because I had made friends. I was like, oh, I'm just going to the grocery store. I stopped because I realized that in LA, when someone says, what are you up to,

you're supposed to recite this thing of relevance. I've got a project set up here and this and that. And there, I'm going to the grocery store. That's what's happening. And I realized like I needed to be off campus a little bit. Yeah. It's like because if you, I mean, it is, Los Angeles is a very self-conscious town.

New York, Manhattan less so, because so many people are making it in so many different ways that it's almost kind of a novelty if you're, when you're in show business in New York, it's a little bit more of an oddity. Whereas here in Los Angeles, it's what so many people do that if someone asks you, what are you up to,

you think you have to say, I've got a three-picture deal. Even if you are just going to the grocery store, you have to say, I'm going to the, at Ralph's, I have a three-picture deal. Yeah, no kidding. No, it's true. I have a three-picture deal with Ralph's. With Ralph's.

It's the Ralph's story. They're streaming now, Ralph's story. By the way, everyone's getting into streaming. Everyone's into streaming, yeah. Ikea is streaming. Ralph's, Ralph's, Ralph's, it deluxe Ralph's. You know, it's interesting because I don't know if this is true, but I heard one of my favorite comedies of the last,

you know, whatever 15 years is for getting Sarah Marshall. Oh, thanks. I think it is such a perfect comedy. And I think many comedies come close, or they can come, they get halfway there. That is so sweet and so nice and so funny every time I watch it. Oh, thank you. And so my wife and I, that's one of our,

like if that movie's on, we are watching it. Cool. And I like seeing you naked. Yes. That movie is really honest. I honestly, like I think that that's why I wasn't trying to be funny as crazy as that sounds. I got dumped while I was naked.

And so I put that into a movie. Okay, this is what I want to ask you about because I've always heard that you wrote, you were 24, I think, when you wrote the screenplay and that you wrote it very quickly based on a real breakup. Is that true? Yeah, I was dating somebody who was amazing and like super in love. And they had to go away for a little while

and they came back and called me from the airport and said, hey, can I come over? And as an adolescent young man, I thought that meant like we've been apart. I need to have sex. Yeah. So, oh man, she arrived at the house and I had decided that the way to really like kick off this sex

was that I was waiting on the couch totally naked, like posed, like comedically. Posed like a body shell, a woman in a body shelly painting. Or burranos. Yes, like burranos. Yes, all of you. I'm going with body shell. Yeah, yes.

Rubens. Yes. You go with your burranos. Yeah, I will at the time. I can remember, like I'm remembering it viscerally now because so she walked in and there I am laying and I said, I've got a surprise for you. And then she said, we need to talk.

And you are as vulnerable. Yeah. As any mammal can be. Yeah, yeah. And I'm fairly confident that it's not the end of the sentences. We need to talk. This sex is going to be wonderful. Right, right.

And so this like breakup starts and I'm naked and the whole time I think this is like maybe the problem. I'm thinking like this is so funny. This is going to be amazing when I write it. As it's happening. As it's happening. You are thinking this is screenwriter's goal. It was absurd.

Like it was absurd what was happening. And then a part that didn't make the movie. I wrote it in, but it was too long when we made it. I stopped in the breakup. I said, I need to put on clothes. And she said, okay. And so I went into my bedroom and then I spent like 25 minutes picking out an outfit.

I was like, yes. I'm like taking shirts off and throwing them on the ground and trying pants on that don't quite fit right. And I was out in the tucks. I came out. I came out six times and came out. It was pretty woman. I came out in a button up blue shirt and khaki pants.

Oh, a blockbuster. And then I said, I'm wearing your favorite outfit. Body blow after body blow. Yeah. And so there was that. And then simultaneously like during that period, I am admittedly like a weird dude and I've loved puppets since I was young.

And I was writing a Dracula puppet musical to be like, this is, this will show them. Right. And I remember going over, I finished my first draft of the Dracula puppet musical. I recorded all the music by myself in my apartment. Sure. It was really special.

And I called Judd Apatow and I said, I have to show you something. And I went to his house. Naked. Gotta stop doing that. It's not helping. I played him the CD and he listened really patiently. And then he said, you can't show this to anybody ever.

Oh, wow. And yeah. And then it just like stayed in, you know, on the computer. And then years later when I wrote for getting Sarah Marshall, I said, I'm ending it with this puppet musical, Judd. And he said, it's your movie. Do it. And like everything about that movie is really authentic

to who I was. I love the cast so much. Yeah. I mean, I love everybody in the cast. And Mila, who I know personally, she's such a lovely person. She's a life force. And she's so fantastic in that film. But I have to tell you, every time I watch that,

I want to see more of the musical. Yeah. Because the musical, I mean, the music is really good. And I always want to see more of the Dracula puppet movie. And Van Helsing. Yeah. I mean, the whole thing is really fun. I had a plan recently.

Remember when Lin-Manuel Miranda released the making of Hamilton? I wanted to do like a kind of a mockumentary of the making of A Taste for Love that showed Peter bringing it to Broadway and like all the behind the scenes. Maybe one day. You should do that. Yeah.

It would be fun. That'd be fantastic. So you wrote that movie very quickly. And how soon afterwards did it get made? Did a bunch of years go by? Or was it? It got made the next year. Knocked Up came out while I was writing that.

And then basically, I think that Judd, when Freaks and Geeks got canceled, had a like kind of Monte Cristo revenge mission. Like I'll show him. It was kind of a recurring theme. You know, you were wrong to cancel the show. I'm going to systematically make these people stars to show you how dumb you are.

I think that that like really was part of the motivation. Yeah. I think he also felt some responsibility because we were, you know, just out of high school or high school kids who he kind of plucked out and some people didn't go to school, you know, as a result of doing Freaks and Geeks. So that movie got made like the year after I wrote it.

It was season two of How I Met Your Mother. Okay. That's unbelievable to me that you wrote it that quickly and then got it made. And then again, you know, not to harp on this, but to have all of that success. It's funny because when you brought up Knocked Up, your character, there were so many original takes

in that movie. And the way that your character talks to Leslie Mann, you know, and the way you talk about women's pregnancies and things. And it was so, it's funny because I found you to be really charming and it's right on the edge of very inappropriate and creepy, but I still was delighted by your character. And also I could see the women not being sure,

like he's on the line, but he's also strangely comforting and lovely. You found my secret weapon. Is that like I can walk the line between charming and creepy and like somehow land in charming. And we try to like, I'm doing this new show and we try to like utilize that because it's a guy going through a breakdown.

This is not an segue, but we're trying. This guy's going through a breakdown. He's still practicing therapy on people. And I said to them at the beginning, like make him, you can push him into unlikeability. I'm like pretty confident I can land him back in likable. It's fun. It's like, it's fun to get pretty close to creepy.

Well, I mean, you brought the subs and I want to talk about it because you're playing a shrink. You're playing as, and the show is called shrinking. Shrinking, yeah. And it is, I mean, it sounds like to me, what I've understood about the show so far is that you're doing the one thing that a shrink is not supposed to do,

which is because of your breakdown, you're telling your clients, you're telling the people that you're treating exactly what they should do. As opposed to the classic, tell me how you're feeling. What do you think you should do? Yeah, this kind of exercise in keeping somebody in therapy. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Endlessly, like tell me your problem and we'll just kind of pontificate on it. There's a scene where I'm with Harrison Ford and we have this conversation that I think is really true. It's like true when you're talking to a friend too, like dating somebody terrible,

and you can see so clearly that they're terrible, you know, like just break up with the guy. You know, you can say it as a friend, but in therapists, I'm sure having that same experience, like, oh, I know how to handle this. Like I could solve this like that. And so he just starts, he just starts doing it to varying degrees of success and failure.

What made you, because I would, you know, you obviously have a lot of clout and time, you can pick what you want to do. What made you say this is it? Because I, was it some of it your struggle, or now I wouldn't say struggle because everyone goes through it, but your own relationship to I want to be happy

that made you interested in playing a psychiatrist? Yeah, I think it was that. And also after how I met your mother ended, and I did like a string of romantic comedies, I hit this period where, like I said, I realized that wasn't, whatever, everyone was telling me I had one life, I didn't feel that way.

I was trying to figure it out. So then I started doing some dramas. I did a movie called End of the Tour that you and I talked about on your show once, and I did a few others. And I delved pretty hard into drama and got, I like to think pretty good at it. But at the same time, I was like, maybe you're also weird and funny.

Like you're not supposed to just throw that part out. And so then I got this call from Bill Lawrence out of the blue saying, hey, I'd like to make a show together. And when he and Brett Goldstein pitched me that, it felt like the end of an M Night Shyamalan movie when it all makes sense. Because it's a drama and a comedy kind of mushed together.

This guy's going through the death of his wife and his own nervous breakdown. But at the same time, it has like big set comedy pieces. And I felt like, oh, if I'm going to do comedies again, this is how to do it. It's like- You know, I do love that we're in this era. It used to be, remember that,

was it like a fast food sandwich? I don't know if it was the quarter pound or something, but they said we keep the cold, cold and the hot hot. That's the McDLT, bro. Come on, man. Get with it. Get with it, dawg. That's the McDLT, bro.

Okay, why did everyone- You both knew that, right? Why did you both- You both jumped down my throat. Because every American should know that. Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah. I was Canadian.

Yeah. And came here a few years ago. I didn't know that either, Conan, if it makes you feel better. Yeah, and you are the kind of fast food. Yes, I am. You are. Oh, I thought you were going to say, I'm not from this country, so-

No, oh God, I would never do that. That's terrible. Terrible, you're from- I almost said it. The island of Altadena. But anyway, a storm, a storm-scarred island. But anyway, it keeps, they keep, the whole idea is like, the tomatoes and the lettuce are kept cold and-

Yeah, we know how it works. No, excuse me. God, it got hostile in here. Yeah. Anywho, the analogy I was trying to make is that there used to be an era where there's comedy and then there's drama and whoever the twain shall meet. And I started recently as an exercise.

I just, I don't know what came over me, but it was around the holidays. I thought, I want to start rewatching The Sopranos because I watched it when it was originally on, but I want to see it again and try and figure out what made it so groundbreaking at the time. And one of the things that really hits me hard is, it is so dramatic, but also so funny,

and you never know which is coming. And the comedy is really very funny. They don't indicate the comedy too much, but the characters are absurd. And some of the situations are absolutely laugh out loud, insane. And then, of course, it gets extremely heavy. And I like that we live in this era where the two coexist.

You can make a show that is, you know, I mean, I'm thinking of like a show like Severance where there are times where I'm really laughing and then it couldn't be more deadly serious. I like that we're now in that world where that's allowed. Yeah, I feel like Prime James Brooks was that very much, like broadcast news to me. It's like a perfect movie.

And even within one scene, Albert Brooks is like imploring Holly Hunter to see how much he loves her and to recognize it. And then it's filled with like comedic assassination punchlines. You know, that's always been, to me, that's always been the sweet spot. Yeah, and almost impossible to hit. Judd told me when I was writing for reading Sarah Marshall, I asked him because I pitched it to him first.

And he said, this is a really good idea. My advice to you is write a drama. Because of the way you see the world, this thing is going to end up funny. Even in the way you're describing it, it's going to be funny. Write a drama. That's what's going to keep people interested. And if we need to layer jokes on top, we will.

And I think that that's true. Like I see the world funny, even when I'm like having tough moments, like even when I'm getting dumped naked, I'm like, God damn, this is funny. Right, and I can step outside yourself, see the silliness of it, and say, I'm going to record this for later.

Yeah, well, and I try to experience it that way too, because I don't know. Otherwise, there's a version of life being a real bummer. I mean, life's hard, you know. So finding the fun stuff is important. I don't think a day goes by when I don't realize that, oh, I'm using my sense of humor to cope. It is not my profession.

It's actually just my coping mechanism that I somehow, in a Houdini-like manner, figure out a way to get paid for my coping mechanism. Yeah. Which for most people is like getting paid to drink. Totally. Totally. How old were you when you got Freaks and Geeks?

I was young. I was like maybe 19 or 20. Yeah. Yeah, I was just out of high school. It is amazing how that show is such a kind of Rosetta Stone, in a way, for so many great, not just a style of comedy, but so many of the performers have gone on to be kind of pillars, comedic pillars, and have these great careers.

It's fascinating that that happened. It is. I look back at that period. There are other comedic groups who have had this, but I think that we really had, the biggest gift was we had the naivety of youth. Like we did not understand how hard any of this stuff is, and we were just determined to make the thing great.

And then like Seth Franco and I would go to my house on weekends and rehearse alone, like unprompted, rehearse the scenes for the next week and improv them, and like try every different version of them. I've never done that since. Like you don't do that on a movie. Yeah, we can't get you out of your trailer. No, Harrison Ford's not coming over to my house

and I can run these lines, but I think that there was something really, there was something really special about that period. We all, and then something else happened where, because look, they did like an international search for freaks and geeks to cast that show. Like none of us were even that focused on like an acting trajectory at that point. We were all just figuring it out. Then when we realized it was going to be hard,

this other thing happened where when one person would do well, they would put the other people in the other people's movies and then slowly everyone's becoming a little bit more successful and then everyone has their own movies. It was really special. Yeah, yeah. It's like you had started a crime syndicate. Totally, totally.

Do you ever, did you have, can I ask you a couple of questions? Yeah, yeah. Did you ever have interviews? I'm sure the answer is yes, but where it just like, it felt like the person was just not good at this. Like, of course. Yeah. What, how do you handle it?

You know, I came to the conclusion at a certain point, don't try to make a circle a square, meaning if someone's coming on and they're a terrific actor, I used to tell the segment producers, don't try to say, come on, what's your funny, what's your funny story where you bought the bathtub and it didn't fit you and you took a shit. Come on.

Come on, Dame Judy Dench. Chalamet. Chalamet. It's got to end where you take a shit. You know, it just, but I, I just, I came to this conclusion that if someone comes out and the audience can tell that I have real respect and reverence for them and we're,

and we have a conversation, sometimes you could hear a pin drop and they would leave and go like, oh my God, that must have been terrible because there were no laughs and I'm thinking, no, people just liked hearing you, they liked hearing the conversation to try and make everything but a bing, but a bing, but a bing, but a bing, but a bing is a mistake if it's not there. And if you have someone who's talented in that regard

and can do that, then fine. But trying to make things something they're not is very uncomfortable to watch in any medium, especially television. And that's what I left after all these years is what I learned fairly early on is don't try to, you know, don't have Anthony Hopkins on and then try through segment producing

to have him tell 75 pre-prepared stories and jokes. It's a waste of Anthony Hopkins. Yes. Talk to him and he'll be fascinating and he is fascinating. You want to know weird thing? It's so weird that you say that. I made friends with Anthony Hopkins really like briefly. Yeah, real prick, by the way.

Yeah, no. Randomly, he would text me jokes. Really? Yeah, we'd just get these jokes from Anthony Hopkins like written out like from a joke book. What? Yeah. Is that a weird detail of my life?

It's so cool. I love it. It's just so funny too that. Well, you really blew it with your segments with him and you could have had some great jokes. I blew it. Yeah, he really likes old-fashioned jokes. Remember, he kept asking me,

when should I go to the dentist? What time? And I'm like, Sir Anthony Hopkins, you're a great actor. You should go to the dentist any time you want because you're such a great actor. And he'd go like, no Conan, what time should I go to the dentist? It really was like that kind of joke for sure. And he just wanted me to say 230 and I wouldn't do it.

He loves it. And you love that joke. Oh, it's such a good joke because with your tooth is hurting. Yeah. You understand? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a good time. Yeah.

Thanks, Sona. You're always there for me. I'm a good hype woman. I'll tell you something. There's a restaurant my wife and I go to and it's. Is it McDonald's? It's not McDonald's. You don't get that McDLT.

I don't get the McDLT. It's canceled. So is the McRib. They just pulled it. You know what? That should be. Oh. Oh.

No, I thought you said it was canceled because it said something. Yeah. It said something. Yeah. Racial strife that was totally uncool. It said respect. Today the McDLT said some stuff about sexuality.

Yeah. Wait, we go to this restaurant, my wife and I, and this is unbelievable, but like we're, oh my God, there in the corner is David Mamet and we've seen him a couple of times. And it's David fucking Mamet. And we're just, you know, both revere this man and he's, you know, it's that classic thing

of he's doing, he's the real talent. You know, he's doing the re, he's writing these, he's written these great works that will endure forever. And I remember one night he came over to say hi to us and he started telling me jokes. This is fascinating to me that David Mamet has a bunch of jokes

and saw me and thought, well, that guy, I'll try them out on that guy and it was really fun. But he was sort of doing it like a stand-up. And I loved it. I thought it was fantastic. But at the same time, I thought, this is really funny how everybody's intrigued. It's that old saying, not that the grass is always greener,

but they're intrigued. So there's part of him that was intrigued by that whole, oh yeah, that joke-telling thing. There's that guy over there. I know he does this. I'll go over and I'll do some of that. Yes, well, I think we all feel like we have unseen parts of ourselves that people don't appreciate.

Yes. You know what I mean? Well, there was, okay, this is reminding me, I don't know when this airs, but just days ago we lost one of the great guitarists of all time, Jeff Beck, passed away. And I was talking to a musician friend of mine and he was saying, did you ever meet Jeff Beck?

And I thought, I don't think Jeff Beck was on our show as a music guest, but I do remember one time where I came out, I used to warm up the crowd myself in the early 90s. I'd go out and I would warm up the crowd and actually break a sweat warming up the crowd myself. Not so cool, because then I'd do the monologue.

No one in America saw that part. I'd start the monologue and I looked kind of sweaty and damp and people thought he's a nervous wreck. I'm like, no, no, I just warmed up the crowd, but no one knew. Anyway, I mean, the crowd warming up the crowd, and there was even a part where I used to sing

Elvis's Burning Love as like a joke and people really liked it because it was so over the top. And I'm doing it and I finish and I'm like down on one knee and Jeff Beck is sitting in the crowd just to watch the talk show. Oh my God. And he had, I think, stood in line

or maybe nobody, I don't know, but he went to see the show. And so I'm freaking out. The whole show, we get through it. At the end of the show, I'm talking to him out in the hallway and he's saying things like, must be great to have a talk show. And I said, what?

Anyway, you get to have chats with all kinds of people and you control it. And I was like, you're Jeff Beck. Yeah. You're what we all want to be. And he'd be like, ah. And he was sort of shrugging it aside like, I know I play a little guitar bit.

And then he's like, to be able to have different entertainers and you chat with them and then there's a commercial and then you come back. And then there's more of you chatting and it's just a nice milieu. I love it. I'm like, no.

I would love to hear him describe the McDLT. They keep the code code and they keep the hot pot lettuce, tomato, sesame seed bun. And then he goes to the McDonald's training facility where they came up with it. And they're like, fuck your Jeff Beck. I mean, you are originally, I mean, yard birds and the, I mean, you're just the original good God.

It's you page and clapped and that's it. Hold on. That may be so, but you, someone had the foresight to make the tomato crispy and cold by putting it in its own container. But still each chamber has its own integrity to preserve the varying temperatures. You're right.

Let's call it even. Well, let's talk about, I just want to make sure I get the word out on shrinking. Yeah, sure. It's on Apple TV plus. Yeah. Super cool. 10 episodes, of course.

And it's executive produced by you and Ted Lasso's co-creator Bill Lawrence and star writer, Brett Goldstein. And it drops on the 27th. I say drops. That's cool. Because I'm out there in the streets and I know how people talk.

That is cool, man. Yeah. I know they're listening to kid and play right now. Absolutely. And everybody's doing the crisscross. Everybody's doing the crisscross. They're all doing the worm out there in the playground. And Shabadoo Shrimp is coming by in half an hour.

Oh no, you didn't. You didn't. Wow. Well, you know, it's so funny. This is called Conan O'Brenney's A Friend. And this is one of those moments where I'm thinking, why aren't we friends? Right.

But seriously, like I know the area you live in. I could come over there. I would love that. And that's a weird way to say it. I know the area you live in. I can come over there. I know. You know what?

When I say this to women, they get all upset. Yeah. Because it's weird. And then a publicist calls. Yeah. I know your gate code. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. So weird. Come on. Well, is that a weird thing to say? You get so close and then you say I know the area you live in. Yeah. I could just come. I could just come over there.

And I did that a lot in my, I said that a lot in my 20s, long before I was even interviewing them. Yeah. It didn't go well. I thought it went great. I thought it went great. Don't let them bully you. Thank you.

I'll show them. You know what? When I say, Jason, when I say, I'll show them these two assholes right here, I'll show them. There's always a gorely circling around my head. And I'm like, I'll show them. He thinks I'm nothing. I'll show them.

It is so nice talking to you. You too. You're, you're, you're so crazy talented, but you're also humble and a sweet soul and honest about all of it. So I will come to your house. Yeah. I'm going to surprise you naked. Yes, it's on.

Because I got a surprise. I think men should start doing that with men and not making it a whole sexual thing. That's really cool. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. I hope not. I've done it a lot.

Oh. We'll talk. All right. No, we don't have to. We're good. No, no, we're not. I think that's all I need to know. Hey, Jason, seriously, thank you so much.

Thank you so much. This has been a fantastic time. Yeah. Awesome. Hey, earlier in this episode, we were talking about hearing loss. So we thought we'd just on the fly, try to test out some frequencies

and see where we're all at. Are we prepared to do this? No. Oh. Can I turn my headphones up all the way? Is that cheating? Oh, I wouldn't recommend it. We have to.

Oh. OK. Eduardo, you're the one I think who is captaining this. What have you done? This is kind of unofficial, but I just got curious and I looked up on YouTube how to conduct a hearing test. And so somebody posted a hearing test that I imagine is going to play different frequencies.

You'll hear a long beep. I think the scenario is you have to hopefully hear these. As it gets higher, typically people start to lose their hearing. What's your degree in? Audio engineering. OK. You know, that's all the doctor I need. You guys, we all have to put our headphone monitors

to the 11 o'clock position. Extra credit for anybody who can guess what hurts it is. Oh, fuck you. Eduardo. Since you brought up the 11 o'clock meaning, so just off of. Yeah, just left of center. OK.

OK, so here's a quick test just to make sure that you guys are starting with the same control. OK. That's. Duh. Yeah. Yeah. OK.

We hear that. Now, how loud. Is that to kill the president? From your volume standpoint. From your volume standpoint, did that feel like too loud? Too loud. OK, OK. So does it just keep going?

It'll keep going and it's going to get higher. Yeah, yeah. That was just the beginning, Sona. I get so nervous. I feel like we're taking a real test. We are. In a way we are. What could be more real?

What could be more real than a test of our own health? All right. Here we go. Why don't you console? Got it. You're it. Feel good about that? Yeah.

Got it. The call you've tried to make is not. Mm-hmm. Good? Yep. Sorry about that. This is a test, guys. OK.

Got it. I'm comfortable, but got it. Yeah. I hear it. I got it. How many of these are there? We're not even halfway there. Sure.

OK, got it. I hear it. T's ready. Yep. Got it still. Yeah. I'm still here. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Which one of us is going to be the first one to go out? I think we all know. This feels like Russian roulette. Uh-huh. Got it. Got it.

These all sound like you suck to me. Yeah, I'm still here. Yes, I still here at the time. Get the jokes. Yeah. This is like the time we said hi back and forth a bunch of times. Yeah. Only much shittier.

I got that one. Got this. Got it. I'm feeling good so far. I'm hearing all of these. We're not halfway doing that. Shit. OK, just Eduardo, don't be the voice of doom and gloom.

Still in. Why can I hear you? Yeah. OK, still here. I'm feeling good. We're not halfway. Stop it. OK.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. He's getting up there. Yeah. Yeah, but it's quiet. Is it quiet to you guys? Is it quieter?

I hear it just fine. This is not a bragging thing. I hear that one. I hear it, but it's. Loud as a bell. It's starting to sound like airplane background noise. Uh-oh. That's gone.

That's gone for me, too. It's gone. OK, so we all went out at the same time? None of us are dogs. None of you are dogs. No, you got all the way to 12,000 hertz. What does that mean? Fairness.

Well, so the human ear, see now I'm getting too brainy about it. No, that's OK. That's OK. What's your- The human ear is conditioned to hear up to 20,000. Hear up to 20,000 hertz. Perfect ears. Anything past 20,000.

But as you get older, it goes down from 20,000 to about 16,000. Well, now I feel like shit. Wait, can you hear? I'm the youngest. I can't hear 20,000 hertz. Eduardo, how old are you? 35. OK, can you hear?

We dropped out at 12,000 hertz. I can hear up to about 17,000. So it's still playing for you? No, no, no, I stopped it. Eduardo, can you hear this? You're fired. Wait, but I'm younger than everybody else. Yeah.

I wanted better ears than you two. Well, first of all, there's about 60 pounds of hair covering your ears. Well, to be fair, you've got very, very thick locks, beautiful hair. Thank you. It's a compliment. Oh, is it? But very thick and sort of matted, not styled in any way. Wow, but it's a compliment.

Well, it is. But you have giant, giant curtains hanging over your ears. It's not like on my ears now, but I'm the youngest. I'm obviously in the best condition physically. Wait a minute. Sonia, you didn't take care of yourself. I've known you for a long time and you partied hardy for many years. Yeah, but, you know, I mean.

You were into clubs, weren't you? I was into, why'd you say duck clubs? Do you always just say with a DA whenever you say clubs? Whatever, if, you know, DA, send me a DM. I know what the kids are talking about and I know what time it is. Our kids are sending you DMs. Just so you guys don't go home concerned, I'm going to play the higher frequencies now.

Okay. Let's see if you can still hear these. Here we go. Yeah. No, and frankly, I'm not interested. I heard a little bit. Can you still hear that? Wait a minute.

Let me see. Turn it off and then turn it and then point and turn it on. Okay, here we go. Ready? See if I can hear the difference. No. No, I don't hear it either. And what's-

Oh, I heard that. You could hear it, Sona? I could hear it. So that was 13,000 hertz. Oh. So I cut out, my cut off is 12. About 12 and a half is where you cut off. Yeah.

How am I going to edit this if I can't hear anything over 12 hertz? Sona, well, since you're still in this, can you hear? Yeah, I can hear that. I heard a little bit of that one. She's just lying. Yeah. I can't hear anything. That's 15,000 hertz.

Wait, can you give me 13 again? I've- You can hear it. Here we go. Here's 11.5. Okay. Here's 12. Wait, I'm not hearing any of this.

I'm not hearing 11.5 and I'm not hearing 12. You're fucking with us. Are you joking? I'm not hearing anything. I am 100% hearing it too. Wait a minute, that could be the headphone. I thought we already proved we heard 12,000 hertz. I'm going to turn the volume up to see if you hear it now.

Okay. And you'll- This will be the true test. And then get an audiologist on the phone. All right, here we go. 10. Here's 10. Oh, yeah.

Okay, here's 10. Here's 10. Yeah. And what's that? That's 11. That's 11, yeah. Hear that. All right.

Yeah, I hear that. That's- We're at 13. But wait, you're just turning up the volume. I turned it up because you guys said a second ago, you couldn't hear it. So he's too- He's mimicking a hearing aid.

Correct. Hey! You know what I'm going to do? Hey! You know what Gorley and I are going to do? Gorley and I are going to get those giant earhorns. Oh, the deaf aids? Yeah.

Yeah. Because you know that you and I would both love to go to a vintage store and get really great old- You know they're out there. Yeah, I want to get two of them. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Doctor would be like, here are these like very discreet hearing aids. And you'd be like, no, we have these giant cones.

We have these A horns. Yeah. A? The Kaiser did what? The Kaiser did what? Lindenburg accomplished who? Yeah. All you can do is hear stories from the early 20th century.

Who has the vapors? For real though, call your audiologist. Yeah. Is that- Really? Why does it become problematic? Is that a concern? I mean, when you get below 10,000 hertz.

Wait, but we're not. We heard 13. Yeah. Well, wait a minute. We heard 13 boosted. She was turned up. Yeah. I mean, it was way up.

13's a sheet? It is. Because I heard it. That's crazy. That's shit. That's cause for concern. But that's a high frequency. We can otherwise hear like human voices.

Correct. Nobody. Can we check urine stream now? I'll let play take over. But how? Mine is like- I'm going to go to a different site for YouTube for that one. Arizona Creek in August.

And can I urinate into a Devid? Yeah. Okay. You lost it. It's just dust. I lost it? How are we going to check the- You're going to pee right now?

I think there should be a little paddle wheel that you put in the urinal. It's like a little- We can market this. Let's get a model of a little cottage with a water wheel. Yes, with a little water wheel. And there's like a little Dutch people that are on the porch.

And then it installs in the urinal, you pee onto the water wheel, and if it plays a nice little song, then you know that your stream is okay. It's a grain mill. So if bread gets made- If you can hear loaves of bread, you can smell loaves of bread being baked.

And the little people are waving at you, then you're fine. And those different models, and one's a hydroelectric plant, and there's a little village in the bathroom that the lights all go off. Yeah. I swear to God, this is an idea that could be marketed.

It easily installs in the urinal or your toilet, and you check the power of your stream, and you watch all these cool little lights go off. Yeah, I want toilet bread. And there's a little voice that goes, get your toilet bread. Get your urine bread right here. Get your urine bread.

Oh, no use jokes. That's a turn. All right, that's a wrap. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gorely. Produced by me, Matt Gorely. Executive produced by Adam Sacks,

Joanna Solotarov, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Yearwolf. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer

is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan?

Call the Team Coco Hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been

A Team Coco Production in association with Earwolf.