Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Jesse Eisenberg

Episode Date: January 27, 2020

Actor, author, and playwright Jesse Eisenberg feels desperate to be Conan O’Brien’s friend. Jesse and Conan sit down to discuss the better ways of humbling oneself, being driven by anthropological curiosity, avoiding online negativity, and the odd homogeneity of Los Angeles. Later, Conan attempts to inspire a pregnant listener as he and his team Review the Reviewers. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone].

Oh, hi, my name is Jesse Eisenberg, and I feel desperate to be Conan O'Brien's friend. Really? There's a desperation there? Usually. Hey there, and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. This has been just a joy. It's been really fun. Had no idea I was going to do a podcast.

And here I am doing it and meeting all kinds of people that come up to me and say, hey, I really like the podcast, and I have to apologize because my security usually roughs them up. I travel with a pretty rough crew. I do apologize if my security has beaten or thrashed you, because you've tried to say hi to me, that's on me, I apologize, and they will do a better job. I'm just, you know, that level, that level of star. Are you? What's that?

No, I've been out there with you, and you're completely exposed by yourself. Hard to miss, too, because you're very tall. You're his security, basically. You know what? I am. When I go places, yes, and this is, of course, my assistant, Sona. Sona, you've had to try and be my security, but it never works, right? You always step in to try and get things to move along more quickly, and right?

You will talk to someone for 20 minutes. Sometimes it's frustrating, and then a mob will start to build around you, and then there won't be any way to get you out of there. It's funny, I will talk to people sometimes, and then, you know, people just come up to me in a restaurant, or on the street, and they'll say, they're fans, and they'll start talking to me, and then they'll come a point in the conversation where they clearly want out, and I keep it going. You do.

There's a picture one of the writers took, where you're, I think we're at San Diego for Comic-Con, and you're getting, like, around, it's behind me, you're just, you're surrounded by people, and I'm just drinking wine, because there's nothing I can do about it. I'm surrounded by, like, 30 people that want selfies, and you're in the foreground, and you're drinking, and it's not just that you're drinking glass of wine, it's the tallest pour I've ever seen. You could soak your foot in this glass of wine, as soon as, as soon as drinking some wine while I'm back there working the flesh.

Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, that's, I, I don't know if that's, comes from a need on my part, whatever, I just start talking to people and I can't stop. Gorely. Matt Gorely, our producer, diagnosed me. You've known me for a while. Oh, wow. What do you see?

Do you see a man who's crippled by a need, or do you think I shouldn't look at it in a critical way? Should I? And, Sony, you can weigh in at any point. I think you just love your fans. And you're crippled by a need. They don't, they're not majorly exclusive. You know what?

I think that's, I think that's fair. Now, Gorely, the old me, the 2019 me, would have torn you a new one right now. But I'm not going to be that guy anymore. I'm nervous. Yeah. No, I'm like Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven. You know, I was an amazing gunfighter in my day. I killed a lot of people, but I'm not like that anymore.

Wow. Yeah. But then I remember what happens at the end of the movie. Yeah. He has to go back to it. And he kills, yeah. So you're going to be slaughtered. Spoiler alert.

Spoiler alert, the movie's been out since 1993. I was going to watch it tonight and now there's no point. That's not true. Oh, this is getting back to when you spoiled the glassblowing show. Remember? That's the same. Oh, that's right. Yeah.

That was a segment from a couple episodes ago. You blew. And you know what? I got so mad in the moment because I was like, I was going to watch that glassblowing show maybe and I completely forgot about it. Yeah. You were never going to watch it. I was never going to watch it.

I got triggered. What do you mean? You accused me of spoiling it. I remember, my brother actually said to me, he's like, you sounded really mad in that. Yeah. I don't know why. That's all right. Let's move on.

You're a little crazy. A little bit. A little crazy. Okay, we're fine. Which side of you is the crazy side? What are you talking about? Was it, you know, the Armenian side? There's the Greek side.

Well, the Armenian side takes more of that. Yeah. You never know. They're both loud. I don't get to play that game because I am completely 100 percent higher. So there's no question when I'm, when people pretty much decide that I'm insane and that I have terrible mental problems, it's not like I can question, gee, is it the Irish people that lived here in this village or the ones that lived six feet over in that

village? You're so Irish. You're so Irish you've come from the same village. No. Both sides. No, the villages were just crammed together really closely because there was one keg in the middle. We're, now, so Gourley, you've watched me for a while and I know that you admire me

and... What? What? No, no, no, keep going. No, you can do this. Okay. You, I know that you love to be the guy who gives it back, you know what I'm saying? You, you know me.

No, first of all, I do not. You do. I actually put me in an uncomfortable position. You like it. I don't like it. I hate it as a matter of fact. You like walking around your cool neighborhood and having people who are strumming a... Yeah, Pasadena.

You're strumming a lute in the corner, having an aperitif, yeah, oh, I heard you really. You gave it back to Conan. Good for you, young lad Gourley. Here's a shiny buffalo knuckle for you. That's probably true. Yeah, you got him good. You really gave me old razzmatazz. I don't want to take you down.

I just want to be your friend. No, come on, Gourley. The people that listen to this, I want to know what their version of me they have in their heads is. Well, you're very twee. You are... I'm wearing a baseball cap. Yeah, you're wearing it as if to prove a point.

No, I'm not. No one's looked less natural wearing... That's true. You look like Mahatma Gandhi wearing a baseball cap. That's true because I know nothing about sports. Can't we all be friends? That's true. You know, no.

But I was just running late and... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and you couldn't decide which of your pork pie hats to wear. I don't own a single pork pie hat. Oh, for God's sake. I swear to God. I swear to God. You are a man who has his unique fashion sense.

Okay. So, Anna, will you describe what I'm wearing right now? Yes, he is wearing khaki pants. Yeah. Well, first of all, let's be honest, khaki pants, but with very old Brogan shoes from a... Sneakers. Yeah.

They look like Brogan's to me. Yes. And then a red flannel shirt and a baseball cap with the LA Dodgers logo on it. I look like a dad in a car commercial or like I'm in the CIA trying to blend in. You're trying very hard not to be the man... You're dressing this way. I have to admit. So then I won't pick on you.

That's true. You are. I have to admit, sometimes I come in, I'll like pick up a normal piece of clothing out and go like, am I going to get rid of cool for this? No, you wore like a tweed vest once and you have... I've never worn a tweed vest. Yes, you did. I don't even own a tweed vest.

For two, like for two podcasts, you wore a tweed vest and he had a big watch fob. No. Yes, he did. This guy comes in in full Crocodile Dundee. You came in with a crocodile hat on. You had the hat from Australia. From Australia because I visited there. It doesn't give you the right to come in looking like that.

Of course it does. It was a gift from the Australian people and I was honoring them. How dare you, sir? Why were you dressed? It's ridiculous. Like Boss Tweed, you look like the campaign manager for some turn of the century politician. 2020 Conan's really nailing it. What are you talking about?

You said you were going to be 2020 Conan where you don't do this kind of thing. He really did. Like two minutes ago. This is worse than 2019. This is like 2010 Conan. Well I'm sorry. I'm sick of you going back to Pasadena and walking around trying to get a high five from all the oldies that live on your block.

Oh my God. You know what I mean? Those people with high five, their shoulder comes off but you're always like, you got him. We listened to the radio program. Conan tried to get you but you give him the old flimflap. Conan, just tag me out. I don't want to do this. I don't know what to do.

What do you think? I got him pretty good, huh? I thought we weren't going to do this anymore but we are. Back to it. My nose is running. I feel like my nose is bleeding. Gourly has a cell phone that he's had modified to look like a 1940s Bakelite phone and he carries it.

And I'm not kidding. It's a giant phone that you'd see like Jimmy Olsen pick up and go, hello? Is that you? Superman? You know, from the 50s and you had it modified, it's the most twee thing I've ever seen. It's ridiculous. Yes, you are absolutely right. I don't want to pile on but did you use a handkerchief just now?

I have to because my nose, no. Matt, why? We're a handkerchief. Why? Thank you. It's not a handkerchief. It's just not like, I just bought it. Look at that.

No one uses those. No one. Okay, I don't, Jordan Slansky read because I, this is just, I just bought this at like a, like a, like a, a department store. Yeah. Oh, I went to the department store to buy a handkerchief. Oh, fuck. I went to the hot, excuse me, I'd like to talk to your top lady.

Oh, don't throw at it. He just threw it at me and it hit me in my open mouth. Why do you have this? Because I have a problem with my nose on my lap. In case you might need to surrender quickly. I give up. I give up. I have a body nose.

Yes. But no, everyone else uses clean hands. Who cares? Who cares? But you can't because you're Matt Gorley. No, that's not why. Of the Pasadena Gorleys. Oh, for fuck's sake, I want to crawl in a hole.

Oh, God. He threw that at me and it went to my open mouth. I'm going to get his disease and I'll be buying curved top radios in a week. Oh, God. I'm so sorry, Matt. I quit. I quit. I didn't mean to do that.

I really didn't mean it. You probably also don't have a normal cold. You probably have a 19th century ailment. Yeah. Like Biddler's Flux. I have consumption. Yes. I have Kepler's Palsy.

Listen. Hey, who's on the show today? I'm glad you asked. My guest today is an Academy Award nominated actor, as well as an author and playwright. You know him from such films as The Social Network, Zombieland, Batman V Superman, Dawn of Justice, and Zombieland 2, Double Tap. I really love this guy. He is inordinately talented and also an incredibly nice and genteel fellow.

Ladies and gentlemen, our good friend, Jesse Eisenberg. I want to apologize first. I think I owe you an apology because we showed up very early in the morning for this podcast in Hollywood. And I showed up, you were in your car right behind me. We met our way upstairs and we were locked out of the building. And we stood on the second floor and we were locked out for, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes. It seemed like that, yeah.

Yeah. In which case we had an amazing conversation, which we will never be able to reproduce now. I wrote it all down. Yeah. Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah. As you do, I saw you, you sat like a scribe, an Egyptian scribe, and you were just writing

everything I said down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the first time I interviewed you, you were a young lad, and I had the nicest connection with you. This is years ago on The Old Late Night Show. And then, I think a week later, I received a beautiful, artistic, handwritten note from you thanking me for having you on the show. And I thought, who is this guy?

He's so creative and thoughtful. And as I was feeding the note into the shredder, because, you know, I... You receive so many, it's just... Yeah. And it just really... I can't have my office cluttered up. Yeah, yeah. No, no.

I think you had done like... Done origami or something. I mean, it was... You had done something very artistic. Oh, I think that was probably my wife, or girlfriend at the time. Yeah. She's the... Yeah, but I did...

The sentiment was mine. Yeah. And I received this, and I actually do still have it somewhere. The shredder, I mean. It's just a really good shredder in those versions. But I was really taken with your character. I would call it like a milestone for me, but that implies that I expected to be on it at some point.

I was obsessed with you since I'm young. And so, to like get to be on your show, it was like, you know, this kind of surreal experience. Oh, that's sweet. That's true. Yeah. So it was... It was so nice. And then, you know, subsequently, your career has gone so well, and you've done such great

work. So this morning, when I'm driving here to the studio, not knowing that we'd both be locked out. Sure. I was talking to you as a, just as a person, not as a, oh, I've got to do this podcast. I'm supposed to do this. And I said I would. And this is what's slated.

And today it's just the Eisenberg. I was really looking forward to hanging with you in this very forced way. It's pretty strange. It's pretty strange. Yeah. I don't know why I'm strapped into the seat. Yeah, I know. You can struggle all you want, but you can't get out.

No, I tried. No one's gotten out. You're not going anywhere. You know, so so many things to talk about, first of all, is you've had a lot of conventional success. I mean, you are a very successful actor and you're very well regarded and you've been in a lot of great projects. And at the same time, you've managed to just be you as a human being.

You don't live in town. You live, I know you want to keep secret, but I want a specific address. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Ninth floor. No, you live in the Midwest, I believe.

Yeah. We live between Indiana and New York. Yeah. And you've just managed to, I think, do this your way. Oh, thanks. Does that feel like it resonates with you? Yes. Although when you describe it, it sounds like this great decision of somebody with a perfectly

healthy attitude towards life. And for me, I view it from the inside, which is somebody constantly terrified, anxious and trying to survive in a world that feels like totally unstable and tenuous. And so like these decisions that you describe as these like wonderfully healthy ideals of staying true to oneself, to me, are just pure coping and defense mechanisms. So you're in the Midwest because you think it's less likely to receive a nuclear attack. Not out of some noble. Especially there are fewer movie posters.

Yeah. I mean, my fears are far more petty than nuclear attack. In fact, I almost love a nuclear attack because then it could explain away why I wasn't in a movie this year. Well, of course, because of the nuclear attack, otherwise, the film would have been great. Oh, yeah. Well, of course. If not for the nuclear attack, you would have seen me in Avatar, you know.

I think you have 30 more years to be in an Avatar movie. They're rolling out very slowly. And I think- It's a bad example, but you understand the essence of the point. I didn't understand the essence. You know, it's funny that I didn't set out, when I started doing this podcast, I literally didn't set out to do anything, but what has happened over the, I don't know, 40 interviews I've done or so, very few, but 40 interviews with very successful people is I keep hearing

the same thing over and over again, which is there's so many people that would look at you, Jesse, and say, oh, he's got it made. He cracked it. He figured it out. Right. Yeah. No. I'm constantly pivoting.

I'm trying to figure this out. There's some level of desperation. And I think maybe if this podcast achieves nothing else, and it may not, I'd like it known that many famous people, if not most famous people, feel that way most of the time. What do you think the value is to people listening? Because I kind of hesitate to talk about this stuff because it feels like, why would- Does somebody want to hear me complain about feeling anxious about a career or about a movie industry?

I mean- Right, right. I guess it's not. Here's very specifically why I think it's valuable. We have a culture built on envy. Everybody's photoshopped. Everybody looks better than they really are. I've gone out of my way in my career to look as crappy on television as I do in real life.

And it's been an amazing success. Well, our time's up. Our time is up. Sign the table, leave. Yeah. I meet so many people that want to be famous. They come up to me and say, oh, Mr. O'Brien, and I say it's Admiral O'Brien. Sure, sure, sure.

I prefer- Mr. O'Brien's my mom. Yeah. Yeah. Now, you could say, you can disagree with me and say, no, this has no intrinsic value. You're wasting people's time. No, I think it does have value. I wonder if we overestimate the amount of people who want that from, who want a reality

from the people they watch on TV. I think probably you and I want that. But I do feel probably like a lot of people don't want that, and maybe it feels cloying to them. But I don't know. Yeah. Maybe that's just my own self-deprecation manifesting as these theoretical people's ideas. But I don't know-

Well, we could. I mean, to offset that, we could also talk about all the amazing stuff we have. Let's do that now. I mean, you have acquired an immense fortune. I have a Toyota. Yeah. Yeah, but you're not- It's a rental.

It's a rental. Yeah, it's not even a lease. It's a rental. Yeah. It's a day-to-day thing. I don't know what you're talking about. Sorry about the future. Yeah.

It's got a hurts day-to-day rental with no insurance. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Couldn't afford the LDW. Wait a minute. You didn't get the insurance. Of course you did. I did get the insurance.

Yeah. I saw you pulling behind me. Yeah. That's the rental. And I saw this very unimpressive car. Yeah. I was enraged. Yeah.

I just assumed- You know what I do drive? I thought it was someone who was not of my social status, and I almost thrashed you with a stick. Okay, I drive a Lexus, and that's my car, but it's not my car. It's a 15-year-old Lexus from my aunt who made a lot of money. She's a brilliant woman. I grew up regular.

You know what I mean? Sure. And now I drive this Lexus, and I find it absolutely humiliating to drive a fancy car. And so I try to emphasize how old it is by, you know, when I get out of the car, kind of casually mentioning to my wife, okay, just make sure we lock the old Lexus. Yeah. Yeah. I have this little Fiat 500.

It's literally like two years old. My wife got it for me. It's the size of a chiclet, a piece of gum. It looks like a party favor, but I drive around in it, and people mock me because I am a large man, and I unfold myself and get out of this tiny clown car. And so I'm in my little Fiat, and it's a nice little putt-putt four-cylinder, or maybe, if that, it might have just one cylinder and a squirrel. Right.

It's not even a cylinder. It's a rhombus. It's the wrong shape, but I get out of that car and I notice that there was some fancy restaurant next to me. And I think I saw like two Bentley's and a Rolls Royce. Wow. I mean, cars that I don't even, who sees a Rolls Royce? Right.

These are novelty items. But I just thought I would be incapable of stepping out of a car like that. I would feel like such a shithead. Now, how much do you think that, I, of course, of course, and you're right. I mean, we would all think that of you. But do you think part of that is because you're so recognizable and everybody already, you know, there's no need for you to tell strangers about your status because you are your status, right?

People know who you are right away. So in a way, you kind of check that box and then walking out of this tiny car as you're saying, in a way, offsets and humbles you. Yes. I think the car, I go out of my way not to wash the car sometimes. Now you, going out of your way, do you ever find yourself going to ridiculous lengths? Yes. Like you've gone too far.

Like for example, you're showing up at a movie that you have a premiere in and you're wearing a threadbare clothing. The example I was going to give you was exactly the theoretical cliche example you just gave, which is that I was told to not wear the shirt I got from Target at the premiere of Zombie Land last night. I was given a stylist and she said, just don't wear the shirt you bought at Target last week. I went to Target last week to buy my son clothes.

He's three years old. I bought him nice clothes for three years old because they're going to grow. So take it to Target. I find a shirt that I like and I decide I'm going to wear this shirt for the entire press junket. I'm going to wear it every day. I wore it on the Jimmy Fallon show and I was about to wear it to the premiere and they said, don't do that.

Don't do it. I said, is it because you have a deal with the company? They said, no, it's because you look bad. And I said, this is precisely what I'm going for. What I look right now is precisely what I'm going for. And anyway, I was bullied into wearing what was Christian Dior. Christian Dior. You believe that?

A Christian Dior suit? You believe that? Well, I'm wearing all Christian Dior right now, so I don't see the problem with this. I know I can smell it. That's why I wear it. It's the smell of Christian Dior clothing. Yes. No, it's...

I also do feel New York City, unlike Los Angeles, New York City is a heterogeneous city. You walk outside, you're surrounded by people from all walks of life, unlike LA. You're not sequestered in a car and all that. I don't like wearing nice, expensive clothing in a city where I feel self-conscious to be part of the elite. I didn't grow up that way. I feel embarrassed to be part of that tax bracket now because it's something that I would have railed against had it not affected me.

My wife is a liberal activist and her family is liberal intellectuals. Her brother is Noam Chomsky's editor and Howard Zinsko writer. I feel mortified to be in this class that I accidentally wound up in by virtue of pursuing a life in the arts. And so, yes, I try to upset it in every possible aspect of my life. You seem very well raised, well bred. That's something you don't hear about anymore. No one talks about that.

My mother, when I was a kid, would talk a lot about... I'm always being held to account every minute of every day that, remember who you are. I feel like you have that. I do, but I also don't feel like I'm asked to be swept along that much. I don't feel... I get invited to a lot of big deal parties. More parties than I do. More parties than I do.

I just want to make that... If we get nothing else out of today, yeah. Yeah. Just know that you have a lot of invitations and RSVP'd RSVPs. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Okay.

Probably, and I'm just thinking about this for the first time, I probably offset the thing that you're talking about by just assuming that I'm rejected by... I don't know. You're constantly in the industry, you have a day and a day and a day job, yeah. I think it's probably impossible to not feel a part of it, whereas when you're acting in movies, you'd have six months off and you have to choose what you want to do with that six months. Now, you could do that in pursuit of other movie jobs.

You can do drugs and sleep through it. You could travel to some obscure place. For me, I like writing in New York or being with my family in Indiana. I just choose to do these things that have nothing to do with this part of it, and therefore, I guess I don't feel like I'm constantly being swept along. In fact, these days that I'm out here doing press feels like such a strange anomaly, unpart of my real life, feels totally fake, and to quote Woody Allen when we were doing press together, he goes, let's be over in a day and we can go back to our real lives.

Nice. Okay. You do a very good Woody Allen. I have no choice. Because you are him. Yeah. If you look like me and not do a Woody Allen impression, be looking like you and not being recruited by the middle school basketball team, it just happens whether you want to

do it or not. It just happens. Yeah, it's funny. I had that same, I would say I borrowed some from Woody Allen. I borrowed some from early Bob Hope movies, the kind of self-deprecating, nice fellas, always around people that are much stronger and bigger, and I adopted that comedic attitude because that was really funny, and then I got kind of tall and kind of big. But I still, you know, so I act like Don Knot.

I act like, not, you know, sorry fellas, I realized that, oh boy, look at the muscles on this guy. Nice. Nice. With the muscles. All right, if you'll just excuse me, and I'm adjusting glasses that I'm usually not wearing. Yes, of course, of course.

And people are looking at me like. You're a context. Yeah. A finger in your eye and adjusting them. I'm adjusting my context. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fellas, good to see you. But you are, you're an unusual height.

You're not like 6'1", and like a good height, and you're like an unusual height. So the awkward thing still applies, you know, because you're, you're noticeable. You're in dangerous territory. I know that. I know that. You said you're not a good height. No, no, no. And then you said you're an unusual height, and you, you made sure that you said it's

not good to be my height. Well, I'm, yeah. My son does not want to be my height. How tall is he? Well, he's still, he's still growing. He is about to turn 14. I don't actually, he probably comes up to my shoulder, but. Oh, he's going to be very tall.

Well, I think so. Yeah. Unless he stops right now. He smokes a lot. And he's taking a lot of weird chemicals. It's a program we got involved in. Just to experiment. Yeah.

No. Sounds like you're raising him just in line with your mother's victim. My mother said you should be polite. She didn't say I couldn't feed my, my son strange chemicals to perform, you know, experiments. No, he, I don't, I think he looks at me and he thinks, six, four, I don't know if I want to be that. I think he'd be more comfortable being, you know, like five, 11 or six feet tall. It's just interesting.

He doesn't want to stand out. But that's what I'm saying. So with you, it actually is this really funny juxtaposition of like a guy who's kind of like uncomfortable with this thing that he's been given. And that's why it's a funny juxtaposition. Yeah. It's, I was down in Santa Monica once and I was with my daughter. This is a couple of years, a bunch of years ago, but I want to say she was about 10 or

11 at the time. And we were walking and we saw, I saw on the window, these sunglasses that just covered most of your face. They just were giant sunglasses. And I said, Vista Viano. Yeah, exactly. And they was like a giant windshield, like something Yoko Ono would have worn in like 1986, like these giant black.

And I said, I bet if I wore those, people wouldn't recognize me. So we went inside. They weren't that much. I bought these sunglasses, I put them on and I walked out with my, I said to my daughter, it was, it was like a comedy, a well-directed comedy moment. And I said, it's going to be nice to walk around and not constantly talk to everybody. And I put them on and we stepped outside and the guy went, Conan! It's like, there's no, it is like Big Bird from Sesame Street putting on glasses and

saying, no one's going to bother me now on Sesame Street. I'm wearing this tie. Right. No one will. Yeah, exactly. When you get recognized, I'm just, I guess, are you good at establishing boundaries? Are you good at saying, you know, I'm not comfortable with a selfie right now or? You know, my degree in school is anthropology.

And I've always been curious to ask people questions, especially where are they from? Because I was cultural anthropology. Yeah. I'm curious about where people are from. I live in New York City half the time, which is like an amazingly diverse place. So when people come up to me, I just immediately ask them a question. That's interesting. It's my nature of deflection anyway, but also it gives me an opportunity to pry into their

lives. That's the only way I can cope with this very uncomfortable thing of like strangers stopping you and, you know, so, so I always just ask people where they're from and genuinely fascinated. I like to know things about the entire world, different countries. I'm curious about that. And so this is my coping mechanism, but it's also really interesting for me and gives you an opportunity to pry. Yeah.

I forgot that you studied anthropology and I would think that I'm in the zombie land movie. How could you? Yeah, you're right. Yeah. You're studying anthropology. So then you become an actor, I would think that would be invaluable to you, like to just look at people and try and figure out what makes them tick.

Yeah. Well, my dad taught sociology and my mom was a birthday party clown. And so she was like this very kind of like silly entertainer who, you know, wore face pain to do these crazy songs. Did she get a lot of work as a birthday party clown? She worked on the weekends in the tri-state area. It was not, you know, when you say get a lot of work. That's how serial killers are described, by the way.

They roamed the tri-state area often dressed as a clown. Yes, you're right. You're right. You're right. The difference with her is that she didn't kill anybody and she did parties instead. But otherwise. Otherwise. Exactly the same thing.

Yeah, exactly. And my dad was like a kind of very, he's a funny person and everything, but he's very serious like social behavior analyst, you know, analyst. And so, you know, I would have a friend come over after school and we'd be eating snacks and after the friend would leave, my dad would say, you know, it's so interesting that Michael asked for a snack as soon as he came over. I wonder if he's eating at home. And, you know, I wonder if that was kind of a power move, you know, that he was asking

us for a snack, kind of asserting his dominance here at the house, which is a new place for him. And my mom would, you know, do some crazy thing and sing a song. So I probably am a, only in retrospect that I realize I'm a real combination of both of them because I do kind of like more serious performance than a birthday party clown. But with the kind of similar social curiosity that I got. Sure. You're a blend.

I'm a sociologist and clown. I'm the sociologist clown. Yeah. I was going to ask you about, you have a very intelligent way of speaking. You also speak very quickly. Yes. My, yeah. Yeah.

My dad is so slow, so thoughtful and so bright, but and so contemplative that he speaks so slowly. So I think my, yes, my horrible affectation was purely to get a word in edgewise because I had to sneak into his pauses. And so this is all you trying to get a word in. Yeah. I speak quickly. And compensate.

Yeah. Of course. I speak quickly. I've tried to slow it down. Why? Just so I can be heard. Okay. Sometimes if I get going really quickly, it can sound a little bit like when you play,

listen to a podcast and it's on one and a half. Yeah. Yeah. Double speed. Yeah. Sometimes when you listen to those, I think that that's approaching the speed that I can get to sometimes if I'm really intense and I'm really speaking about something. Right.

I'm talking about Luke who speaks very quickly, so quickly that people think he's from Ireland. They really do. People think he's from Ireland because he talks really quickly and so it, it, it sounds a little bit like, sometimes he can sound like a little bit like, you know, I'll tell you something right now. And people will be like, well, tell me, are you from Dublin? And he'll be like, no, no, I'm from Boston. But if you speed up a Massachusetts speech pattern, just a little bit, it starts to sound

interesting. Sing Song, Kate and some Ireland. And then you can get a little bit, it's getting going quickly and people say, oh, well, tell me, you know, so you have an Irish passport. That must be where, no, no, no, I don't, I live here in Boston. Have you ever been asked to slow down by network executives? I got a lot of notes early on, notes like, don't be on television. Sure.

And then that was the umbrella note and everything else that followed was kind of in retrospect. Do you think like, what, there was like six months where like it was, didn't, wasn't great? Oh, so it was longer. There was, I have a lot of younger fans that have no idea we ever went through any difficulty. Really? And I say, oh, no, no, you don't understand. I can show you articles that were written in 93.94 that, you know, have headlines like, wouldn't it be great if he died?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was weird that the Times put that above the fold, I thought. Yeah. I mean, and on a day, especially during the first Gulf War, I mean, the same day as the invasion, it was the same day as the invasion and it was the lead story. Yeah. And then Conan died. And then in other news, we've invaded the Gulf, committed our forces in much lesser news.

And Osama bin Laden determined to attack US. But I still framed it. How do you deal with criticism? Cry? I don't know. How does one deal with criticism? Well, some people, there's many different reactions to criticism. One is F them.

Yeah. They have no idea what they're talking about. Oh, no. No, that's not mine. No, I mean, I validate the worst, I validate the worst criticism and disregard anything good. Like a normal person. Yes.

Yeah. No, I mean. It's so funny because that's, that is what I do. I, I do the exact same thing. Yeah, of course. I find the one person in the crowd who's not laughing and think, they're right. They see. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I, yeah, I don't, I, but I also, I mean, the other thing, which is true, which is that I just, I just isolate myself to such a strange degree that I'm really not aware of a lot of it. I think I was in probably, I was 20 years old, probably around the same time I visited your show. I Googled my name, I was before Google, I Yahooed my name.

And the first thing that came up was, he reminds me of Ben Stiller. And then the person underneath went, you mean ugly and Jewish? And I closed the computer and I never looked up my name again. And since then, really, I've, I'm so, I live such an insular strain of life. I regret writing that. Yeah. I know. And it was right as you were taking off too.

So it was. And instead of using an avatar, you use your real name and several pictures to indicate who you are. A fingerprint. I was, I was having a down moment and my anti-Semitism was at a boil. Yeah. No, I, I, I can't believe, I've had people tell me, man, I was going through internet comments about myself last night.

I cannot believe people do that. And I think, what are you, what are you doing? Why are you looking up comments of yourself? Because my wife always says the internet is a bathroom wall. Why would you want to know the very worst of what a human being could think of you? Yes, yes, yes. And see it. Yeah.

My wife always tells me the internet hates you. I said, really? They said, yes, yes. I found stuff that hates you. Why would she tell you that? I don't know. Can we get her? I don't know.

I don't know. Because I, because from her perspective, she feels like protective over me. She thinks I say too much at interviews and I put my foot in my mouth and she is a political activist and she thinks that I'm not being as explicitly progressive in my interviews about my entertainment things. And I say, I don't want that. I feel it's not my place. I feel it's, I feel things like that are overdone and add to the kind of strange discourse

we have in culture anyway. You're saying that you don't like to get political. You don't like to wear your opinions on your sleeve. Because this is something that I wanted to jump on quickly. I feel very strongly about things. I have very strong feelings, but I always have this sense that no one elected me to anything. Exactly.

And, and sometimes I think we live in a culture where people think, well, you're a coward. If you're not on the ramparts right now, you know, throwing flaming arrows at the enemy. And I think I, A, I don't think it's that simple. Right. I don't, I sometimes do think that the discourse has been poisoned a bit when every single person who has any kind of notoriety feels a bit elected to tell us what they think. I completely agree. And for me, the kind of the compromise or the solution is, you know, my mother-in-law

ran a domestic violence shelter for 35 years. She passed away two years ago. My wife and I helped to fund it. I did a major like campaign to raise money for it. And I talk about domestic violence and issues of domestic violence and try to raise awareness for the shelter, middle way house in Bloomington, Indiana. To me, this is like a wonderful thing to do. No one's going to disagree with this.

This is not going to upset anybody. And this is a way, you know, just in terms of like the political discourse of people in entertainment, that seems like a wonderful solution. Talk about a thing that, that you feel could be helpful rather than I feel kind of, you know, add to just give other people reasons to look at entertainment, the entertainment industry as further alienated from mainstream society. Which is kind of the way I feel, even though I'm part of it. And you know, especially, you know, I'm kind of in the Midwest.

Not that I have some, not that my finger is on the cultural pulse there, but like, you know, I think like if you live here or into a lesser, much lesser degree in New York, you know, you have a sense that like everybody kind of, you know, really thinks the way you do. There's a bit of like a homogenous culture out here, which I never noticed or never really fully, it never crystallized for me until I got a juice this morning. And the guy said, hey, Brian, your juice is ready. Thanks, Jess.

I'll see you soon. And I realized no one would ever do that in New York because there are too many competing kind of cultures there that have held on to their cultures. And here in Los Angeles, it's a newer thing. People come here rather than are born here. And therefore, like there's a kind of homogeneity to the culture here where people feel comfortable saying, hey, bro, your juice is ready. As though like, I mean, I'm the last person who could authentically go by bro.

And so I realized, oh, there's a bit of a homogeneity here. And so I can understand why people feel they should say something because it feels kind of safe here to be able to say something. But if you leave here, you know, you realize not everybody thinks like you. And I think kind of being so explicit sometimes I think will further alienate the people you're trying to convince. Yeah. I agree with you 100%.

Children have the benefit. They have the luxury of thinking everything is simple. And growing into adulthood is realizing that things are complicated, nuanced. They can contain the good and the bad, the salty and the sweet. And that's what being an adult is. And there's something about our national discourse now where everyone wants to be a child again. The other side sucks, they're bad, we're good, they're evil, they're the death star. We're, you know, we're the rebels that are fighting them, that are fighting for freedom.

And each side can look at the other side that way. And I think, well, that's just adults wanting to be children. Yeah. Does that sound? Oh, it does. I mean. Can you praise what I just said? I mean, I think you're a genius and I've loved you for a really long time, like up until

that moment. No, no, I think you're right. The truth is like, I come from, you know, a very liberal New York Jewish family. I don't think there's been any person in my family in three generations in this country that has voted for a Republican on any state, local, national level. And so I actually do come from a place of feeling that we're right and that, you know, the liberal position is would benefit more people. That's I genuinely feel that way and very strongly and I do what I can to promote that

in my personal life. That said, so the feelings you just described, I think are actually probably, I maybe feel that way a bit, you know, that there, but I just don't talk about it in that way because I don't think that's the correct way to do it. And if I were to talk about it in a way, I would either do it in like the fiction that I write in a kind of, you know, veiled way that's not, you know, my own personal or just in a way that feels more measured and thought out. I don't have a Twitter account, so I don't have like any kind of way to have a knee jerk

reaction that's public. And I don't, I'm not a really public enough person to feel like it's even warranted. I do have a Twitter account, but to me, the only way I can do the internet, and I mean do the internet, which just saying that just lost a huge demographic. Lost 80% of the people that would ever want to hear what I have to say. The only way I can participate is that if it's a one-way street, meaning I don't then go look. I like to put funny, what I think are funny things out there.

I know you feel that way. It's a one-way street here, pal. Yeah. You'll listen to me, Eisenberg, but I will put funny things out there, and then if you like it or don't like it, it's not, I can't help you. That was what I made in that moment. So are you tempted to respond to things and don't? No, not really, because to respond to it, I would have to know, I'm not actively looking

for what people thought about every second of what I was doing. I just think it's with that noise in your head, how can you make anything? That's exactly how I feel. This is why I don't watch the movies I've been in, because I feel like it just stifles my own creativity. I don't read reviews of the plays I do or the stuff I write, because I just feel like how could you do anything if you're kind of coming from a place of reacting to somebody telling you how to do your job?

So when you're at a premiere or at some event where you need to watch one of your movies and you come on camera for the first time, you don't stand and say, boom, there he is. I don't go to those. I never go to those. In fact, I was like... That would be the only reason I would be in a movie. I'm not a movie figure, but I would go. And I would, as myself, I wouldn't disguise myself for anything, and the second I walked

on, I'd be like, yeah, boom, bring the cone in. And I would stand. Do you think people would know it was you? Yes. They would know it was me. I'd be removed, forcibly removed, but I'd make my way back in, and then when I entered the scene again, I'd be like, there he is again. Do you think anybody's been non-forcibly removed?

I think some people who have shame are told to leave, but I think being forcibly ejected is much funnier. Yeah, no, of course, of course, but it also seems like the only way to be removed. What about you should go? I think you should go. That's ejected. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. You're right. That's complying with an ejection. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, so just if you can take it back and just not say the forcibly, because it's redundant. I think if you were I, we're on a long road trip. One of us would kill the other.

Yeah. Or we'd stop in Long Island and decide to take separate modes of transportation. I think we're far enough, this is Bergen County. I think we're far enough here and I'll see you in LA for the proposed appointment. Yes. Very good. I'm summoning my private jet now. Yes, exactly.

I'm going to go get it. It's coated with gold. You dropped me off at Westchester Airport and I'm going to take a small plane there. What's the rest of your day? What's going on? I mean, you know. Going to Los Angeles Comic-Con? I didn't know there was a Los Angeles Comic-Con.

There's a Comic-Con everywhere. I didn't realize that. Yeah. It's sort of like Burger King. Yeah. Oh, okay. Wow. Interesting that you chose Burger King.

Do you have a deal with them or something? McDonald's is the correct answer. I don't yet, but if I keep hammering away, I figured McDonald's would be going after two big of fish. Got it. But if I hit Burger King and I hit it enough, you know, I think something good is my way will come. You've always aimed low and look at where it's got you.

We were locked out of the studio this morning. We were locked out of the studio. I've never felt my position in show business more dearly than standing on the second floor balcony of a pretty pedestrian, sad-looking building. There was one of those giant locks on the door that has a code you have to push into it. Like they're trying to rent it out to a college kid. Exactly.

And this is supposed to be, I mean, this is a very successful podcast. I hate to toot my own horn, but let's just say, yes, of course, is there, is it bringing in some revenue? I'm sure it is somewhere. But no, creatively, it's a very successful podcast. It's a juggernaut. No one uses the... Let's call it what it is.

It's a juggernaut. It's a juggernaut. It is a black hole that's devouring all other podcasts and no light can shine around it. It is a devourer of worlds. It is an apocalyptic show, a show that will destroy anything that gets in its way. Do you feel threatened by the Chuck Todd cast? I do. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The fact that he could just take his name and go right in there and cast Todd cast. I'm fair. You know, I could have done cone cast, but I didn't. Yeah. I could have done thread of dignity and then Todd cast.

And I'll say you're sued by Comcast. Well, yes. Exactly. I didn't, I didn't think about that at the time, but... Is there a parallel universe where you're hosting Meet the Press? I think there should be. But they'd be like in that Star Trek episode, whenever there's a parallel universe, the people in the other universe have little goatees.

Like Spock has a goatee and, you know, everyone has a slight difference. So I think there's a parallel universe where I host Meet the Press, but I have a little goatee and slightly evil eyebrows. I think you're going to give me an answer about your political proclivities and why actually, you know, yes, why you could have pursued that route and, you know, if you could only go back, but no, instead you have a goatee and different eyebrows. Yes. Okay, cool.

Yeah. I'm not going to waste your time with, you know... I mean, do you have a curiosity about that stuff in a way that would... I do. I have a lot. I have curiosity. I mean, I think you and I are both curious souls. You've...

I think you've asked me as many questions today as I've asked you. Most people are content to let me do all the questioning. You are a curious man. I'm a curious man. I think there's an alternate universe where you and I have like a very sophisticated, like Huntley Brinkley. This is a very old reference, kids, but look it up, kind of show where you and I are dissecting the national discourse every night and people really admire us.

Right, sure. You're vaguely aware that you have a big movie career in another universe and you're... Pretty pumped about that. Yeah. But you're pissed that you're not in that universe. Oh, right, that I'm not in that one. Yeah. I'm stuck with this goatee.

Yeah, and you have a weird goatee. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm actually happy that I'm in the universe because I'm getting a break from my family. This is fascinating. We're both aware of our parallel lives, but one person is happy to be in this other situation and the other person will immense the fact that they're in this body. I'm happy that I'm in the other universe because my cholesterol is slightly lower there, too. Right, right, right.

And my cholesterol is like a solid 130. Right, exactly. And then in the universe where I'm Conan O'Brien, the talk show host comedian, it's pushing 200. Right, right. My hair does better in humidity in the other body, for example. Exactly. Yeah.

Again, were you and I to take a long car trip? Sure. I think there'd be a few hours where we're the closest to friends. Sure. And then I think as we started to get out to the Badlands... You think we'd make it to the Badlands? Yes. I'm flattered.

Thank you. Honored. We get to the Badlands. I'm sorry, are we going west to east or east to west? East to west is how I would want to do it. That's flattering. Thank you. Yeah.

We get all the way to the Badlands. I'm sorry, the Badlands of Massachusetts. Oh, got it, got it, got it. Yeah. There's some desert areas. It's a bad area. Western Massachusetts is just not a good neighborhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But anyway, I think I might contrive a way to lure you into the woods and try and end you. Sure, sure, sure. Sure. I think you'd win, but I'd bite. You're a biter. Yeah. You're kind of silly, but if we get one thing out of this, I would love to have your address.

Not here on the air, but you are a great fellow. I have a lot of admiration for you. And I would like to occasionally write you a stupid note. Oh, thank you so much. And so if that happens, you will shred it. Well, Jesse, congratulations on everything. Thank you for being here. Thanks.

When this airs, you'll be very pleased because I'm going to lower both of our voices electronically. Sure, sure, sure. We're quite masculine. Yeah, to sound like a regular person. Thank you. Thanks you so much. How about another round of Review the Reviewers? These are real comments from listeners, and we must accept their opinions and respond.

Yeah, on Apple Podcast. Okay. All right. This is from Not So Red Sonia. It's five stars. The title is The Podcast Is Helping Me Survive a Move. I am eight months pregnant with my third kid, and the husband and I got this crazy idea to move houses.

I am currently in a whale state where I'd rather lie around and not move, but listening to Conan's podcast somehow makes me want to unpack our crap. The only problem now is that I'm all cut up and have no new episodes to listen to, but I still have to unpack the master bedroom and dining room. Conan, get on it and get this pregnant woman new episode stat so she can finish unpacking her house before the baby comes. You have one month. Oh my God.

This is Sonia. Is her name? Red Sonia. Red Sonia. Not So Red Sonia. Oh, Not So Red Sonia. Well, whatever. Listen, Not So Red Sonia.

Conan to the rescue, I suppose. I want to help you get through this move. First of all, congratulations, a third child. My wife, after the birth of our second child, turned to me and said, never touch me again. And I haven't. We have two beautiful children, but she just wasn't up for a third. Third is intimidating. That's amazing.

So I could see this is quite a task for you, and I'm glad that I'm able to help. I really am glad. How much of the house is unpacked, and why should you have to help at all if you're eight months pregnant? Oh, good question. Right? I thought she could be breastfeeding or like it's a newborn or something. Right.

By the time this comes out. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think she should be helping at all. No. I don't think she should be doing any unpacking. Now, very few people know this, but I am a trained and licensed obstetrician. And I, seriously, and I don't think it was what I majored in in college.

And I don't think it was history and literature of America and obstetrics. I don't think that's, OK. Yeah. If you replay that, you'll hear that I didn't say obstetrics correctly, which might be a giveaway that I'm lying. No, I don't think in the eight months she should be moving around, and I wonder what's her husband doing? Yeah.

Good question. Maybe by the third one, you're, you know what's up. Yeah. So you're like, I can unpack a house. I can do this. That's true. Maybe. Depends on how much stuff they have.

Listen, I don't know what it is about the sound of my voice that makes you want to physically take things out of boxes and move them and keep busy. Yeah, that you could take it as a compliment that, oh, this is so nice. She likes listening to the podcast, but she doesn't find it soothing clearly because you don't listen to a soothing podcast when you unpack. You listen to something that agitates, excites, maybe even angers, gives you the energy to unpack that lava lab, to unpack that beanbag chair. That's right.

Those things have to be packed carefully so they're not damaged. You have to unpack all that stuff. And so my voice might be an irritant. This may not be a compliment. Maybe she wants to listen to you because you might induce her labor. Yes. Maybe your voice agitates her to the point where the baby just wants to come out. Yeah, like acts of trauma can induce labor.

You guys are joking around, but both of our children were a long time coming out and the doctor said that I should speak as much as possible. They said the child will come out eventually just to end your, he called it a nasally twang, a reedy, irritating twang. The baby wants to evacuate the womb. Yes. The baby wanted out of the womb for the relative harmony of a room that you might not be in. So I was then asked after both our children were born, could I stick around and could

I read from Melville's Moby Dick's and try and induce other women. And I did that and I made $600 a pop. And that's why I wasn't on the air for a lot of pretty much 2006 to 2008. You'll notice there's like a two-year gap where I was just reading to women who needed a baby out. Since this podcast came out, there's been a spike in birth rate early premature birth. People are giving birth who weren't even pregnant. Oh, my water broke.

Yeah. Look, that tumor just left my body. Why? What happened? Did you take some kind of miracle chemo? No. Conan O'Brien's voice played and the cancerous cells said, you know what? We'll take our chances on that hot concrete sidewalk over there rather than listen to this

needy freak for another second. So that's why sometimes when I'm walking down the street, you see little cancers crawling as they die. Move across the sidewalk. You can move? Yeah. They're crawling on little amoebic legs and saying, we'll take our chances here. Maybe a bus will come.

You've got cancer-afraid. I didn't say afraid. Irritated. Okay. No one fears me, but I can irritate. That's going to be the tagline on my poster. Yeah. So anyway, I'm sure you've had the baby now just listening to my voice and congratulations

to all the new parents out there. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Sonamov Sessian and Conan O'Brien as himself. Produced by me, Matt Gorley, executive produced by Adam Sacks and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf, theme song by the White Stripes, incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. The show is engineered by Will Bekton.

You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review featured on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.