Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Jim Carrey

Episode Date: August 10, 2020

Actor Jim Carrey feels warm all over about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Jim sits down with Conan to talk about the prophecies in his new book ‘Memoirs and Misinformation,’ deliberately getting into a fight with the audience, and balancing the introvert with the extrovert throughout his legendary career. Later, Conan faces the pressure as he gives another State of the Podcast address. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone].For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is Jim Carrey, and I feel warm all over about being Conan O'Brien's friend, except when his hair blocks out the sun, then I can catch a chill. Hey, Conan O'Brien here, and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. True now, more than ever, we are, is the second episode of our third season. And boy, I think all of us are feeling like we need a friend this much into COVID. I think it's been seven years now. I'm not sure I lost track for a while. Actually, this, I have to say, we've had some very nice comments online about people

being happy that we're back. I think no one's happier than I am, because I'm so starved to be talking to people and interacting and to get to do the podcast feels like a real blessing. It really does. I mean, I know no one enjoys it when I'm sincere and it won't happen again, but it's been, I'm so happy that we're making these podcasts, because it really is fun, it's fun to get to make these. I'm joined, as always, by my skeptical assistant, Sonoma Sassian.

It's nice to hear that you missed me and Matt. I like the process of podcasting. There's ups and downs with the process. I like the technical aspect of it, the microphones, the machinery. Oh, you're real gearhead, huh? No, no, no, I am. You know me. You like the machinery more than your pals.

Please. I find you to be necessary evils, I guess is what we'll call you. No, I do. I'm so into the gear of podcasting. That's how good a podcaster I am, of course, using one of my favorite microphones right now. Right, what brand is that? This would be the Ruan 44, because the tenor of my voice, this has an 84 hexalite parabola

scan. So what it's able to do is really give me the resonance that I need. I'm sorry, did you say Ruan? I would have to listen to the playback to hear what I said, because you forgot what the brand of the microphone. I'm such an enthusiast that I get so excited that, but yeah, you're, you get so excited that you forgot the name of the microphone. Occasionally, you know, that happens sometimes, I'll really, like a Beatles song will come

on that I love and I so love the Beatles, it'll be like, these guys are great, I don't remember the name of the band, but you know, you know, that happens when you get really excited about, you're really, you know, happy to see your wife again after you haven't seen her for a while and you don't know her name just because of the excitement. Okay, what kind of microphone are you using over there, Matt? Oh, I'm working on a Sennheiser myself. Oh, the old Sennheiser, those are fantastic. I will tell you a true story that is one of the things that you have to engage in if

you are in late night television over the years is, and much more in the past than now, but I used to have to do a lot of photo shoots, you know, if a magazine was going to do a story about, you know, the red-hitted Quipster of late night, they would, they would set up a photo shoot and I would show up and I did one thing over and over and over again, it would always work. The photographer would come out and I'd say, hello, and the photographer would start taking pictures of me on this soundstage, you know, in New York or LA and be taking pictures. And very clearly on the front of the camera, it would say, Hasselblatt.

And I, the guy would be taking pictures, you've probably even seen me do this, Sona. And I'd be like, and the person would be taking pictures for a while and be doing the chit-chat and they always play kind of like cool music to put you in the mood and which always just made me self-conscious. But they'd be taking pictures and I would see that the guy had a camera, it says Hasselblatt right on it. And I'd go like, at some point, I'd just go like, what is that, is that a Hasselblatt? And they'd go be like, he'd lower his camera and go, what, you're into cameras, man?

I went, I love him. I love him. And then it would say next to it, and you could clearly see it. It would say like Hasselblatt, you know, 4.4 and I'd say, what is that, a 4.4 and be like, it is a 4.4. And I'd be like, yeah, it's just my thing. It's really my thing. I'd be like, shit, man.

And then he'd put it on, eventually they put it on sticks, you know, to get a, you know, a lock shot. And it would say right on the tripod, this is the actual name, Sackler. Sackler's the name of a tripod. And I'd be like, oh, using the Sackler, huh? And he'd be like, shit, man. And people would be like looking at each other and I'd be like, yeah, I love you, man, you've got a Hasselblatt, you've got a 4.4, you've got a Sackler.

And then I would always take it one, two, far, I'd go like, what is that? And it would say on the side some German thing like Miltenstein. And I'd say, so you're using the, what is that, Miltenstein? And then he'd always, that's when they would look and they'd be like, fuck you. But for a while, I'd be like, hey, man, that's my thing, you know, that's my thing. So that's a little peek into my life. I used to waste people's time. Yes, used to.

And now you've done it to our millions of listeners. Well, it's free, that's my, it's always my excuse for this bullshit. It didn't cost you anything. So what's the problem? Anyway, I don't think we can waste a lot of time today because we have an incredible guest on the show. My guest, of course, one of the funniest actors and comedians of all time. You can look it up.

That's just a fact. You know him from such movies as The Mask, Dumb and Dumber, The Truman Show, Ace Ventura, Pet Detective, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, just to name a few. Now he's authored the New York Times bestselling book Memoirs and Misinformation, a fascinating quasi-memoir. I am thrilled he is with us today. Before I introduce him, I want to mention one quick thing because we all know I'm talking about Jim Carrey.

Jim Carrey, of course, is unlike any other person I've interviewed on the podcast so far. He is a force of nature. So there may be some audio hits and glitches here and there. Why you ask? Because at one point in the interview, Jim picks up the microphone for the speaker and pastes it over his eye to turn himself into a pirate, I think. He is a whirling dervish, so he's not wearing headphones because I would literally be putting

him on a leash. And so you might hear some strange sounds. Sometimes the audio may be degraded. This is what happens when you try and record a creative hurricane. I've had the same problem sometimes. Anyway, made it about me at the end, even when I'm talking to Jim Carrey. That's pretty hard to do. Anyway, thrilled he's here.

Jim Carrey, welcome. This is the craziest experience because we're doing this over Zoom. You are not in the room with me because of this virus that I just heard about. But you're in the room with me. You know how? How? I wrote you a letter. I wrote you a letter from Conan O'Brien who writes letters, ladies and gentlemen.

I wrote you a letter and you framed it. I framed it, but here's the crazy thing. It's COVID, right? So I'm doing all my own framing. So check out the edge of it. It's really... Whoa! I did it with an X-Acto knife.

I did the edge there. I didn't think you can see it, but it's really uneven and horrible and that's how all my pictures are going to be in the house from now on. It looks terrible. You know, it was funny. Or what did you think of that? Wouldn't it be pompous if I had sent you that letter already framed? Like my assumption was that it would mean that much to you.

And if that's the way, whenever I sent anybody a letter because it was coming from me, I sent it framed. Yeah. With a lot of your hair in it. I can ask you how you're really doing. I'm doing fine. Like all bullshit aside. Okay.

Bullshit aside. I'm doing fairly well. I've, like all of us had ups and downs wondering what's going to be over. I'm going to narrate what Jim's doing. Jim is now peering into the lens. Into his soul. Of the zoom camera and he's holding what looks like an eye patch over one eye. And it's...

So clearly the bullshit's over. You really wanted an honest, emotional answer from me. No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Because you went right in... No, no. I'm in a deep depression, Jim. And yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, no. You're going to kid around now. Yeah. I'm sorry. This is when you tell me you have cancer. And I go, what an idiot I am. Yeah.

No, you would give it about 30 seconds and he'd be like, what kind of cancer? Yeah. One of the easy cancers. Yeah. Celebrity cancers. Celebrity cancers cost extra to treat. You know what I've done? I've grown my pompadour out so that now it's a giant...

I don't know if you can see. It's just a mop that's falling over my face. It's an incredible thing. One of the wonders of the world. I like walking behind the waterfall myself, just on your eyebrows. It's a famous scene in Last of the Mohicans where they're hiding behind a waterfall. You seem well. I'm doing fine.

I'm doing fine. I'm okay. You know, I'm doing all right. Yeah. We're hanging in there. We're part of something that's bigger than us. I think we're doing the best we can. Speak for yourself.

There's a big, bad bruiser up top who wants to make a name for himself. So... Well, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know either. I don't know either. I've forgotten the name. Head of General Electric, I suppose. It's just a guttural response now.

President... President... President gut punch. President daily outrage. When did you get your American citizenship? When did you become an American citizen? Was it just in time for Trump? Is this a nice thing?

Have they got some men? Your door's going to ring in about half an hour. They're doing the jobs that Americans aren't willing to do. We hadn't had a really good leading man in comedy until you came because... That was willing to do it. Everyone... No one wanted to do comedy. That's a shit job.

Yeah. Everyone just wanted to look good. And then you said, I'll do it. That's right. And then we villainized you and demonized you for coming from the north. Boy, oh boy. And taking... It's so bitter.

Taking our comedy. It's so worth it. You know why? Yeah. Why? Because we got a lot to talk about. There's a lot to cover here. And first of all, I want to take you down a couple of notches because you've been getting

away with murder way too long, in my opinion. Okay. No, seriously. We got to bring you down. Okay. Is that what this cast is about? That's what this is all about. This is a podcast.

It's called Rip You a New One. And I don't know... Rip you a new one with Conan O'Brien would be great. Yeah. It would be a pretty bad publicist because no one else does it. And then you were like, I'll do it. And then you rip your face off in your algae. And I'm like, come on.

Guys. You know, I find this to be very eerie. You wrote a book that I really enjoyed. And that's why I wrote you the letter that's framed and hangs behind you on the wall. Something you affixed to the wall seconds before this podcast began. It was in a toilet. Anyway, your memoir, Memoirs and Misinformation, which you co-wrote. You worked on it with this guy, Dana Vashon.

Yes, I did. Very terrific writer. Wonderful. And what's fascinating about this is anyone thinks a celebrity memoir, they all think the same thing. And this is because it's coming from you. It's not what anyone... Well, it's actually what I might expect, but a lot of...

This is not a Jim Carrey memoir that anyone would expect in the normal sense. No. And what I find amazing is that you must have been working on this for a long time. The writing, I think, is really quite good. And there's a lot of really funny and dark stuff in here. But you're basically writing about the end of the world, and it comes out during COVID. So I feel like you knew something that we didn't know. Well, it's amazing when we started working on this thing.

It was like an eight-year conversation that turned into a couple of years of intensive, you know, creative work, and we put our hearts and souls into it. Yeah, it was amazing as the time got nearer to releasing the book that we started noticing all these incredibly kind of weirdly prophetic things that are happening. And suddenly there is a riot on Rodeo Drive, and there is all of these things that are happening. And not to mention, I just think as a writer, when you let yourself actually write down and hone what's coming rather than what you think they might like, you know,

there's some weird clairvoyant thing that happens, you know, when you open yourself up to the universe, it knows better than you do what's about to happen. What I found to be really crazy is that, first of all, I love this device, I'll call it, I'll call it a device, but you use real celebrities in the book. So Jim Carrey is in the book. Real celebrities. What an oxymoron that. I'm just as real as anyone.

But you know what I loved is that, first of all, we've known each other for quite a long time. I've been to your house a bunch of times, so it's odd because you're describing Jim Carrey, who lives in this house. Shit has gone missing too, man, and I'm a little bit worried about it. I want to talk to you after the talk. I have to apologize. A couple things have gone missing. What am I going to do?

One of the gloves is not accounted for. I don't know what happened. You know what I found is very hard to sell at Jim Carrey Golden Globe. It's a very hard thing to sell. People are very worried about getting caught. You have to change it to Drew. I chiseled out the gym and I tried to write in Drew with a Sharpie, but a lot of the people were suspicious.

But I've been to your house and it's funny because when you're writing about Jim Carrey at home, it's very funny and surreal, but there are also elements that I think, I've been there and I feel like, yes, this is kind of a depiction of you at home, but it's also not. You've stretched it out and it's insane and you have this very powerful electric fence and you have these dogs that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars that are trained to show you affection and love because you can't get that anywhere else.

You got to buy it at this point. You got to buy it at this point. But one of the things I really loved is that you have your name dropping and name checking people left and right and you're hanging out with them and it's hilarious because the Jim Carrey in the book has this incredibly insane relationship with Nicholas Cage. And Kelsey Grammer is always... This isn't that far from reality.

No, it really isn't. Apparently, the one you created bought a dinosaur skull for a million dollars. It's a tiny stretch there, but... A tiny stretch, yeah. Being one of the most incredible eccentric characters living among us and always fun to have around and to exchange creative ideas with. So we've had a thing going for a lot of years. We have this thing called the Obi-Dobi Award that we hand back and forth

between just the two of us. A lot of tension about who's going to get it. There's a big tense moment and someone's announced. But yeah, that's been a fun part of this. It's like you got to do a book on persona and transcending persona, you have to use some personas in the ultimate process of Hollywood. Yes, but I loved... I was laughing out loud.

This is one of the things I wrote about as I was laughing out loud at you. Kelsey Grammer keeps appearing in the book. Yes. And we all know Kelsey's manner and his way of speaking and that he's that way in real life as well. So he keeps showing up in the book and there are moments where people are saying, Kelsey, shut the fuck up. There's like a guru who's saying, Kelsey, please.

And he keeps interrupting and saying, where are you? Cross talk. Yes, yes, yes. No cross talk, Kelsey. Well, Kelsey does this wonderful thing that I've loved for years. His pomp, his befuddled arrogance and whatever it is that he does is just amazing. So he was the perfect character to cast in that part. The guy that's such a dedicated thespian that he loves the sound of his own voice.

And he needs to express himself because he needs to hear himself. Yes. He needs to be heard, which is true of a lot of us. There's a lot of different characters and it's starting to trickle in now, the reactions and things. Nick Cage loves it. I gave him all the best lines, so whatever. No, but I was really happy because that could have really hurt if he didn't like it.

Have you heard from Kelsey? Not yet. But Joan Dangerfield emailed me and was effusively complimentary about it and loved what how I handled Rodney and our relationship going forward and everything and and said she had a ton of quotes in her mind. And but those are the people I kind of was a little closer to. And then I got a lovely email from Anthony Hopkins that he's he's great in the book too.

He's an amazing character. And we give him this sad, romantic background and all of these wonderful, dramatic things that, you know, I wondered if he would go like I really rather be asked if you'd like to expose my broken heart. Never asked. You know, never asked. Always beg forgiveness later. That's what he came.

He actually emailed me after he wrote it. He was thrilled to get it. And then I was biting my nails and he emailed me two days ago and said that he was just so happy to be a part of such a wild, wild ride and that we broke all the rules. And it reminded him of James Joyce. And, you know, for me, that's that that that makes my heart go a flutter. You know, the portrait of a portrait of an artist as a young man was a really important book.

And so he was just really happy to be part of it. And he said, thanks for including me with all the big shots. And he was just lovely and humble and isn't that nice that he doesn't think he's one of the big shots? That's that that makes me. I mean, I've always liked him. They're always like that. The best, the best people, I mean, you know, the best people know they're good.

They don't have to rub it in your face. But also, you know, that's security. I've always been amazed by him. He's one of the only guys I've ever seen in this world who I don't know where he is age wise. And he's in the 70s or early 70s. I hope I'm not doing him wrong. But he's kept his vitality in movies.

He can still be a leading man in movies. That's an extraordinary accomplishment. Jim, I hate to. This is awkward. I just Googled it. He is 44 years old. God damn. I'm so sorry.

Yeah. He's he's aged terribly. He's not vital at all. You need to do a rewrite. You need to do a rewrite. Yeah. He was he was in a bunch of silver spoons. He's not my problem.

You know what I mean? His real life is my problem. You know, there's something I want to ask you about, which is you wrote this book and I think there's a lot of bravery and. I did my own research, by the way. Mine says 82. Where's the fake news, man? Who's putting out the name?

I'm telling you, I got this off Fox. This is solid. This is very solid and we don't have to wear masks. Straight from the mouth of the manatee. No, you know, it's funny because you there's like a duality that you encompass that I find really fascinating, which is on the one side, you can take these big risks and really go for it in a way where, as you just said, you try and connect with what you want to do and what makes you vibrate and not worry about how people will react.

But at the same time, nobody can be a great comedian without an incredible need to please. Yeah. And you've got to have both of those. I mean, I mean, and when I look at you and the early work in the early years, I think one of the things that was so dynamic is that you would literally, if it made the audience laugh, you would swallow silverware and hurt yourself. Do you know what I mean? It's this.

Sure. But I also have another side to me, which is the rebelliousness against that. So every 20 shows at the comedy store, I would go with the, you know, expressed determination of getting in a fight with the audience on purpose. Yeah. I would actually purposely get up on stage and start being derogatory and negative and whatever. And self-indulgent and singing songs and doing whatever until there were things flying through

the crowd, you know, chairs some nights. And you know, some, some nights it was like New Year's Eve was swizzle sticks and whatever is in just the angry, bloody faces going, fuck you. Get off. The end of my mind. You know. That's what we all want. In comedy.

Yeah. And of course that made me go even further. And one night I stayed up at the comedy store on stage for two hours and by the time I left, they cheered. They gave me a standing ovation for leaving and then I crawled through the crowd and stood up and behind or sat up behind the piano during the next person's act and started banging on the keys and singing, I hate you all. You gave me cancer and until the entire audience left.

So there's this weird double thing going on where I want to disrespect the world enough that I can tell the truth, you know, but I am willing to do anything to get, to get a laugh for sure. You know, it's, it's interesting to me that a bunch of things come to mind. One, Ace Ventura, you, you went into it with an idea about what you wanted to do to the leading man in a movie. It's so fascinating because you've said you wanted to destroy the leading man, the concept of the leading man in a movie.

The guy with the answers. Yes. Yes. Yes. And all the cool moves. Yeah. And all the cool moves, you wanted to blow that up, but at the same time, people loved it.

So it's this crazy thing where you loved it too, Tom Shadyak and I were like sitting there in the dailies every day, howling with laughter, out of control with laughter. And then, and then walking out and going, we're finished, we're finished. Right. This is either going to be a cult classic or we're done forever, we'll never work again. You know, I think one of the things that I responded to so much in, you know, right away was I've always loved comedy and it's one of the things that I always loved is someone behaving comedy where someone's behaving outrageously, outrageously.

And people notice and make kind of an, you know, yes, well, anyway, Mr. Ventura, right this way. And it's like, if someone behaved the way Ace Ventura behaved when he walked in the door for six seconds, they'd say, you got to get the fuck out of here. You got to go. You got to go. Twisting your nipples and things like that. Yeah.

Yes. You were no longer needed here. But what I love about that kind of comedy, and you see it with Clouseau, with Peter Sellers, someone coming in and doing something completely outrageous and people are like, and he's just destroyed a suit of armor and an antique piano and the house is flooding and they're like, this way, Inspector, no, let's go meet, you know what, it's not that untrue. I mean, it's a conceit in movies that people don't notice certain things or they just go like, okay, I'll deal with this later or something.

But you know, real life is like that. People come in with an agenda and you'll find that all the time, especially being interviewed and stuff like that. There's a lot of times people aren't actually listening. There's an agenda and they're going like, okay, finish your line. And you know, they're ready to go to the next, but they don't want to be thrown off the plan. So you can get away with quite a bit. I think Ali G, not Ali G, Sasha Cohn proves that a lot.

How far you can push a person into absurdity, into a land of absolute absurdity and unacceptability. And they will try to cling to an idea of normal. Yes. Yes. Which is always funny. Exactly. Harpo Marx can walk up to somebody at the matriot D at a restaurant and he can take out a giant scissors from his pocket and cut the guy's tie off.

And the guy will go, anyway, this way to your table, like, no, that's where everything would stop in real life. But it is true that one of the things I've really enjoyed. And I feel like you more than most anyone I can think of, maybe anybody I can think of has, you're always pushing, you're always pushing, what can this person do that still allows him to barely exist in society? Because no one wants to, they need something from you. They need something from your character.

They need, you know, like you said, Cluzelle, Peter Sellers got away with a lot of that. You know, chaplain to me was inspiring in that direction because he changed every moment into something magical, you know, he made magic happen with every little mundane moment. So I, you know, I think that way. I also think in the way of like not pandering, you know, of like, I have a pandering switch, you know, that I not only try not to do that, but I try to go in the opposite direction, which is, you know, and I've challenged my audience a lot, you know, I've gone off on these tangents in my life and my creative career and stuff, and left them kind of scratching

their heads while I develop a new limb to bring back to the tree, you know, but it's happened that way. And I've been able to explore all these different areas like this is, this is such new ground for me, man. This is writing a novel is just an extraordinary accomplishment for anybody. You know, I can say that for myself because I'm only half responsible for this book. But you know, the book is a ton of blood, sweat and tears and a ton of fun. You know, I do feel like there are moments in the book, because you're talking about

Jim Carrey and Jim Carrey's living Jim Carrey's life in the book, it bears a lot of similarity to your own life. And then there are insane departures, there are just crazy departures from it. But there are truths in there, like the pressure the Jim Carrey in the book is getting to stay relevant from powerful industry types and you need to make this movie and that stuff, you know, you keep wanting to go and make this incredibly artistic project where you play Chairman Mao and people are saying, of course, the studios don't want that and they want you in the Hungry Hungry Hippos movie.

And you know, I have to say, Because my managers as well, they're like, look, we made the box, the box works. Get it back in it, get inside the box. When you're describing it, first of all, first of all, I know that you and Dana Vachon created this. The flip side to the artistic project is the Hungry Hungry Hippos movie, which is already pre-sold and guaranteed to make a billion dollars and everyone wants it and they want you.

And so you're getting all this pressure to do it and you don't want to do it. So you clearly have loathing for that project. When I was reading the book, I thought this actually sounds like a good movie. I think I would go see it, which makes me, which makes me a moron, maybe a spin off. I was interested that that felt like that's true, like I'm sure that you've had pressure before. It's a constant. It's a constant.

You know, every decision you make has to be weighed against like, am I artistically selling out? Is this cool to be doing? And then you've got your people you want to take care of, there's a whole consideration that goes on with everything. I generally find myself a lot flying in the face of what's expected or at least delving in a new territory that is risky. And that, that to me is life, that to me is what makes life worth living, man.

It's like Jacques Cousteau doesn't stop in the tide pools, man. He keeps exploring. Well, he doesn't anymore. He's dead. Yeah, he died. He died because he, he went, he went too deep. Yeah, that's right. He went too deep.

He died. He explored and he shouldn't have, and he should have stayed in the tide pool and creatively been safe. That's right. So your own example is a fucking terrible example. Exactly. He should have just sat on the pool. Jacques Cousteau, no, I think he was like hit by a sob coming out of a restaurant.

I think he was. What a way to go. No, I made that up. I'm just pretending I have a fake Google here. Yes, it says here, hit by a sob at the age of 32. Let's start some fake news. Wow. Incredible.

He was very young and he had never actually didn't, never, never learned how to swim. They always CGI'd that part. Was he on the Epstein list, by the way, can we say that? You can't. You can't just exclude somebody on that. Oh, hi. I don't think you can retroactively start adding people to the Epstein list. Oh, okay.

It's another part of the book where when you go to make this movie, basically what they do is they put you in the ultimate motion capture suit and they capture the essence of Jim Carrey and then they're basically saying, we don't need you anymore, but you're going to make a ton of money. And you realize that what would have been completely absurd 15 years ago if you had written that now seems 95% possible. It's that question that's being raised now. Do you even own yourself, you know, the IP and the corporal rights to your personality?

It's like, what will happen to the things like sad or done? You know, I mean, right now you're seeing an atmosphere where you're going to worry about what you said 30 years ago or what creative joke you had 30 years ago might come back to haunt you or whatever it is. Who knows what's going to happen to us as personalities. I just, I loved that idea and I love the idea that in order to, like one of my favorite things in the book is the idea that, you know, if you just leave Jim Carrey alone for 48 hours without a compliment, he'll sign the papers.

There's got to be some, see, that's what I wanted to say is that there's a bunch of little clues in this book that I do feel resonate with the real you because it felt like, yeah, there's a grain of truth in there, which would certainly, and I say this, that would certainly ring true for me is if, if no one paid attention to me for 48 hours, I would literally do anything they told me to. And the other thing is you talk a lot about the people that are managing you or trying to control you. They're constantly floating in name of another actor who could get the part, another A-lister.

And what's funny is I thought that's funny and also I'm sure somewhat true. I'm sure people are saying, Hey, Jim, if you don't do it, that's going to jump right in there. That's going to do it. And then there's a part of you and you admit this in the book that's thinking. Fishing bills without afraid of nothing. He chased it all fucking day. Exactly.

One of the things I've always really appreciated in all the time I've known you is that anytime over the many years you came on my show or did anything when I toured and you said you wanted to show up and do something, I didn't know anybody who would go that far and put that much work into it. And I'll never forget you came once and you wanted to do a biopic called the Conan O'Brien story where you played me and you spent hours, you spent hours getting the makeup and the giant wig and it was you playing this incredible, I don't know where you got the idea for this character, incredibly narcissistic freak who's abusive, abusive to everybody around him and

you throw hot coffee. You did a muted version of Conan O'Brien, but what was amazing is that's one of my favorite things that we ever did on The Late Night Show and it's a photograph that I have up in my study. I have like some photos on the wall of cool moments and it's you and the giant wig and me standing next to you as we were taping it. See, in my mind, I'm looking at a room that looks like some kind of psycho murderer with a bunch of pictures and stuff and strings that go to different things and stuff.

It's the room they break into and they realize that your life is in danger. They break into that room. They've always wanted to be me. And in a way, I am, in a way, I am. But anyway, you would go, you came when we did shows in, we did a week of shows in Toronto and you came and you, I mean, you sang a song, you saw the lady in half, you climbed up in the ceiling and then at the end, the crowd was going insane and you were with the band playing bongos after the show was over and people were like, no one would leave because

you were there playing bongos with the band. And I thought, I always appreciate people who, to them, it's like a religion. The comedy is a religion, meaning, no, you keep doing it or your art, whatever you want to consider it, you do it when no one's looking. Do you know what I mean? I'm sure I get the sense that you. I do plenty of that. Yes.

But I'm serious, people that do comedy when there's no one around and there's no camera and you're complete alone in isolation, but something occurs to you, you might do a bit with a tree. Yeah. I talk to myself all the time. It's amazing. I'm worried about you. Yeah.

Well, you know, see, here's the thing, I am, I am equally shut in and social butterfly. I love energy of people. I love being face to face with people. I love talking to people. I love entertaining people. I also love to be alone, you know, like I have two worlds. And when I get out in that world and I get around your energy and I get around the energy of the band, I love artists, musicians, you know, any, any time I have contact with people

that that make a living and making a song out of life, you know what I mean? Just like going, OK, I'm going to turn all this disparate, all these disparate worries and, you know, problems and, and, and alchemize them into something totally cool and beautiful that people can laugh at and refuse everything. Yeah. You said you want to free people from concern like that. That's a quote of yours. If, if, if it's a serious role, I mean, even if it's a serious role, if it's a serious

role or a comedic role, that's what your aim is. I think you, you must have like a Hippocratic oath, which is you, you embody all of these to me, you embody all of these dualities and one is part of you wants to blow it up and the other part wants to do no harm like the Hippocratic oath. You don't want to hurt anybody's feelings and I get the sense that if you, someone told you, you know, you kind of hurt that person's feelings, you would be devastated. Yeah. I would absolutely be hurt.

Yeah. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. There's, there's no malice in my game. The only hints of malice, I believe, are just me making fun of human quirks and ego, you know, and it's not making fun of the celebrity themselves, but it's making fun of the system and the ego system. You know, there's, there's no malice in it. The only bit of malice I might have is towards giant, you know, corporate entities that hide

in the shadows, you know, and control everything, you know, so I will take my potshots at them. And Dana and I wanted to like make sure that we didn't kill the sacred cows, but we took them for a nice fucking joy ride. Right. Well, let's watch the language. This is a show primarily for kids. Is it for kids? Yeah.

Nickelodeon Radio Network. I believe the children are our future. I had an amazing experience with you, which is I was at your house one time and then not that long afterwards, you invited me back over and I came over and I want to say like six months had gone by. The house was completely different and it was filled with your artwork, all of which you had made in the span of time. I mean, it was clearly coming from a kind of manic place, but I was really stunned by

how much stuff you put up. Who are you? And I judged you. I judged you. And that's remember when I put a dart. You diagnosed me on the air with no credentials whatsoever. I've been on television for 27 years, which gives me the right to prescribe it. I've seen a lot of idiots in my time.

I put you, remember? I'm the one that puts you on Ritalin and against your will. I gave you little injections in the carotid and you calmed right down. And I started forming sentences, which is wonderful. I want to say one other thing about the book, which is that there's so much that it could be farcical or it could be seen as crazy impressionistic extrapolation, but also I could really get a sense of your dad in the book, like your connection to your dad and made me think that I could relate to because my own experience, I think, mirrored years, which is when I was

a kid, I watched my dad like a hawk. If something made him laugh, when I was like three, I was like, that's the way in because you're connected. Did you watch Sullivan? Yeah. I used to watch Sullivan with my dad and I used to watch Rodney Dangerfield on at Sullivan with my dad. And so Rodney would make your dad laugh and then you would think.

My dad laugh and I'd act along with it and just love it every minute of it until I started understanding the jokes and then I laughed for real, but yeah, it was, it is that it is a mirror thing. It's like my father was the funniest man on the face of the earth. Just absolutely hilarious and animated in every way. Like he was a living cartoon. When he told a story, it was like, let's just, and then the guy comes in and goes, hey, I'm a tech baker.

I just looked at myself for a second and I looked like a tech baker. I don't know why, but just like, I'm falling out of a window. That's funny, Valentine. Yeah. Funniest man you ever met. Rodney Dangerfield loved him. He was absolutely insane around Rodney. One liner.

Because let me explain to anyone who doesn't know you opened for Rodney for years and he was sort of your mentor. Yeah. I used to stand off the side of the stage in his robe, the classic Rodney in his robe, stand off the side of the stage with his, you know, his balls hanging, you know, basically like, like, like a, like a perfect timekeeping pendulum. Oh, you had to reset it every once in a while, but you know, it was pretty accurate, constantly 12 o'clock.

Yeah. I, he found me, he saw me up in Canada and we had a completely different view of things from up there. I think that it might be one of the reasons so much brilliant comedy has come out of Canada is that you guys are close, but you're not here and you're smart. It's very literate, smart country. And you guys are, you're watching us and you're like sleeping in the next bed watching your brother have a nervous breakdown and so you get to, do you think there's some truth to

that maybe? Yeah. That's the feeling. The feeling is powerlessness right across the board, man. I'm equally with the good and the bad in this, you know, I just think we should all be honest about what's going on, you know, and that's, that's all. I wish there was a way to let the people know that don't agree with me that disagreement isn't hatred.

We can disagree without hating each other and we need to, we need to broom the White House, man. We just need to broom the White House. I don't know. I think I was talking to my kids about it today. They're in their mid fifties and I was, I had them during when I was three and but I, I was talking to them today and I was, I keep going back to the same thing, which is my anger is also directed at enablers, people around him who are saying, Oh, they're worse.

You know, this is, he's helping us get what we want and he's getting us a tax break. So let's pretend he's at, let's pretend the bus isn't out of control. I want to see all of those Republican senators lined up in hell, fluffing the devil, getting them ready for Trump. Well, that would mean you're in hell with them, Jim. I get to visit. Oh, you're just visit quickly and you, you get it like a nice stuff, man. A mango iced tea and you, the devil's like, no, you're just here for a short time.

I got a backstage pass. I got a backstage pass. You've got a pass. I got two sixes and a five. Not quite there. Jim, will you be staying? You know what? I have some things I got to do.

Of course. Of course. Would you like something cool to drink? So we're not going to be sorry. Is that a bell I just heard ring? All right. Well, listen. You know, I can't go with you on these, you know, I can't go with you on these, you

know, anti-Republican rants, I just can't, you know, it's very simple. Bob Dylan said it. Yeah. But no one understood it. He was mumbling. No, Bob Dylan said it. He said. That's all.

It just doesn't work this way. It doesn't work. Right. It doesn't work this way. When we hate each other, it doesn't work this way. We don't understand each other. When we can't go as far as like removing painful reminders of slavery to people. You know, you know, that's not that far to go.

You know, that's not your culture. That's that's that's a dark part of the culture that reasserted itself during civil rights movement. And, you know, and that's just not right. And I think it would all of those Confederate statues would make a wonderful marine environment for sea life. Yes. Right at the bottom of the fucking Marianist trade.

Yeah. Well, also, I, you know, I'm going to go a little further. I think all those statues should come down. And I think the minute you put up a statue of any human being, it's problematic. I mean, I do idolizing anybody is a strange thing. Yeah. Let's hope it never ends. No, I don't.

I think only celebrities should be idolized. I feel strongly about that. People that have worked in film and people that have worked in television, people that have primarily worked in comedy. Those are the idols. Those are the people that should always be paid the most. Those are the people that should always be preserved in the culture. And considered seriously as philosophers.

Yes. Well, I think we've done a lot of great philosophizing here. Listen, Jim, I've kept you for a long time, but please do a follow up to this book where I get a Conan O'Brien gets to be in it and I'm an incredible womanizer. Okay. That's all I want. An incredible womanizer who's insatiable. I give you permission to go.

I'm stating the obvious. Jim, always lovely to talk to you. Great talking to you, man. I love you. And you're wonderful. And I love you as a person and as an artist and as a friend. And I want you to protect me because you're bigger. I am slightly bigger.

And you know what? I will say a genuine thanks for you've been incredibly nice to me since the very beginning and always generous with me. It's a pity. It's a pity. But I've always appreciated that. There's a real kindness in you and we don't get to see it much. Well, you bring the best out in me, man.

You bring the best out. You do in people. So anyway. All right, Jim. God bless you, sir. Be well. And I look forward to seeing you soon when the madness is over. Yeah, brother.

Only six more years to go. That's it, man. That's it. We can do it. This time stand on our heads. It is time now for us to review the state of the podcast. You know, there's a state of the union address. Yeah.

I think of myself as the president of the podcast, the commander in chief. It's constitutionally required that I every year give a state of the podcast and I address my minions. Okay. Those with less power than me. No, no, they're all different branches of government. They just don't have power. And then there's me.

And what I'm saying is that the state of the podcast is good. The podcast flourishes and thrives. We are in our third season of the podcast. You know, the rising tide has lifted all boats. We are coping during this time of pandemic. We have pulled together. And I think the podcast is stronger than ever. You're not the real president.

Well, no, thank God. No, you're, you're pulling quotes, inspirational quotes from actual. No, I'm just saying I like to win. As you know, I am someone I'm a fan of history and I like to project confidence and calm. And I am saying don't, don't you agree with me, Matt? That the state of the podcast is good. As much as I hate to agree with you. Yes, I do.

Yes. Yes. It is flourishing. We started out. Early on, people said Conan can't have a podcast. It'll never work. Yeah. I don't think anyone said that.

But I'm one of those people that likes to invent in my mind that people were against me. It helps me. Remember the Michael Jordan documentary? He was always fabricating that someone had dissed him so that then he could destroy them in a game. I'm so much like Michael Jordan. What? No. Yeah.

Listen, it's more shocking than you'd think. The tyrannical kind of thing. No, no, no. We're similar ages, both very naturally gifted athletes. Both an incredible desire to win at any cost. Win what? Both the face of the 90s. He was the face of the winning in the 90s and I was the face of winning in the 90s.

What were you winning? I was winning. What was I winning? Man, I was winning across the board. I had the late night show killing it. I was just hitting it with the ladies. Oh, no, though. I really wasn't.

You weren't, though, right? No. No, but listen, what I'm saying is... I was hitting it with the ladies, no one says that. Hitting it with the ladies. I was hitting it with the ladies. Let's just break that down. What were you hitting exactly?

It sounds like we were at some sort of state fair and they had whack-a-mole and they had two mallets. And there was a woman there who didn't want me to, who was like, well, I'll just, he can play alongside me. So I was technically hitting it with the lady. Oh, okay. That's my explanation for that one. But anyway, no, no, please don't get me off track. The state of the podcast. In the beginning, everybody was against us.

Everyone said, you can't make it. There's no way. There's no way. He's too good looking. That's why he's on TV, he can't be on radio. And so then this happens. Not only do we succeed, but we excel. We exceed people's expectations.

We sell an incredible number of fracture frames. They haven't advertised on this show in 60 episodes. Is that true? Something like that. We did so many ads for them in the beginning. How come they went away? I think because they're getting all kinds of free ads every time you mention it. Well, fracture.

Hey, listen, if you have a photograph and it's not laser printed on glass, then you're a fucking moron. And then there's a fracture guy just going, can you believe this guy? He does it for us for free. Just let him roll. It's because early on in the podcast, I had to do so many ads for fracture that now all I do is walk around our house

and there'll be a picture of my son on the wall when he was first born. And it's hanging up in a nice frame, but it's a photographic print. Yeah, gross. And I tear it off the wall and smash it. If this is either on glass or I'll wipe my ass, it rhymes. Okay. Anyway, fracture. I don't know why I keep mentioning them.

You're saying that as your legs are just bouncing up and down. I know. Like you have restless leg syndrome. I have restless. I'm so zen. My mom, I tell you this at the dinner table. My leg, I always had restless leg syndrome and my leg would be going and my mom sat next to me.

We'd all six of us, seven of us, whatever there were, six kids, two parents, six kids, two parents and a grandmother would all be sitting around this table the way Murphy Brown, they all crammed together on a small table and ate their lunch. We were all crammed around this table and my leg would be going and my mother would take her hand and she would put it on my leg and say, stop it. People will think something's wrong with you. Oh no. Yes.

Stop it. People will think something's wrong with you. And something was. And something was. That's what's going to make people think that something's wrong. Yeah. Not the, not the muttering. I am the least, I am the least zen person that's ever lived.

That leg is like the metaphor. You're the perpetual motion machine. It's always running and you fuel this thing. I do. That's why the state of the podcast is good. It's because I love doing the podcast. I really do. I enjoy it.

Matt, do you enjoy doing it? Be honest. Yeah. Sometimes it's a little scary. Why is it scary? Well, you know, I never know what you're going to say to me and I just have to be ready for everything. You know.

Well, but Matt, you should know that this is a safe space. It's the most unsafe space I've ever been to and I was in Vietnam. No, no, no, Matt. Matt, listen. This is creepy. This is scary. Matt, I joke and I, I suppose I Josh, but you should always feel safe, Matt. You should always feel safe.

I would never, ever snap at you or try to demean you in any way on this podcast. And if I have in the past and I don't think these things are, there's no record of them, so we'll never know. There's no way to go back and listen. But no, you're my friend. And when I say friend, someone I've been forced to work with. No, the way you said that to me and the way you looked, I'm going to share my screen with you right now.

You're looking at me so non plus, like you're going to kill me. Non plus. That's my real face. That's just my face. So I hope you're having a good time on the podcast. We just heard from Matt that he sometimes feels afraid. Yeah. I have to say, I feel like I really lucked out because I do the least amount of work

on this podcast. Oh, you do. Yeah. Next to nothing. I get to just, you know, come in and talk with, you know, my pal, Matt, and you, and it's nice. And then, you know, you have way more pressure than I do. And then Matt has to produce it.

So I'm, I really do the least and it's, it's a great position to be in. I have a theory that, you know, like all humans, I'm made primarily of carbon. Carbon when pressurized turns into, Matt, tell us diamonds, diamonds. That's right. I have a theory that when I die, the coroner is going to cut open my chest and I'm going to be all diamond inside. I'm carbon and I've been under incredible pressure. Yeah.

During my entire lifetime. What do you think of that? I think that's a pretty accurate assessment, but I also think you put yourself under all that pressure. You don't have to. Yeah. I've got to be. No, you don't, Conan.

No. What's the movie where Al Pacino says it keeps me on the edge where I got to be? Heat. Oh, yeah. He's talking to his wife, former wife, and he says it keeps me on the edge. That's also the movie where he goes, she's got a great ass. Wait, is that true? Yeah.

Which one? He says that in heat. Yeah. He's having like a talk with like some street informant and you can tell he's just kind of improvised it and the look on the actor's face is not acting where he's like looking at the director going, what the fuck is going on right now? Yeah. It's got a great ass.

Yeah. Sometimes I love an odd choice in a movie that's there for all of time. I think I may have mentioned this, but on Wall Street, talk about odd choices. There's a scene where Charlie Sheen and Martin Sheen are riding down in an elevator together and Charlie Sheen's really mad at his dad because his dad just blew the big deal he had by speaking the truth and not going along with Gordon Gekko's plan and he's like, dad, dad, that was such a great plan. How come you did this?

How come you did this? And Martin Sheen's line is supposed to be, well, sometimes some of us care more than just what's in our wallet and he goes, well, some of us, sometimes we care more than just what's in our wallet. I want to play these. We should get the audio. It's in our wallet. And it's just like, you swear to God, the audio people would have said, yeah, we got to go

again. And then the director go like, yeah, yeah, let's just get one more of those. I'll play the clips. This is heat. I want to get mixed up with that bitch. Because she got a great ass. And this is Wall Street. What you see is a guy who never measured a man's success by the size of his wallet.

Okay, the state of the podcast is secure. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Sonam of Sessian and Conan O'Brien as himself, produced by me, Matt Gorely, executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Salatarov, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf, theme song by the White Stripes, incidental music by Jimmy Vavino. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. The show is engineered by Will Bekton.

You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review featured on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.