Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Jon Bernthal

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

Actor Jon Bernthal feels extraordinarily lucky about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Jon sits down with Conan to discuss his unique introduction to acting, the importance of discipline and well-roundedness, and speaking with life-without-parole inmates on his podcast Real Ones. Later, Conan recalls just a few of his greatest fighting victories. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hello, my name is John Berndahl and I feel extraordinarily lucky about being Conan O'Brien's friend. That is really nice. Hello, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I had to take a second there before we started because Sona was yelling in the podcast studio. Because you two are being dicks. Well, I don't think that's the right energy to start a friendly show that basically is meant for children. Oh. This is a show by children for children.

On an intellectual level. Yeah, exactly. Sona, you and Gourley were shouting about something and I was just trying to get you to stop talking long enough and shouting so that I could start the program. That's all. First of all, it's hard to have a human moment in this room because every time we talk about something fun, you're like, let's record it. Because I want to capture the essence. Can't some things just be between us? Yeah.

No, no. It almost be recorded and then monetized. Filthy, filthy riches. Ruby's. Gold. Yeah. Well, Sona, you and Gourley were shouting about your eyebrows. What was that all about?

The hair removal. Right. I don't want to talk about this because I upset Sona and I feel bad. Oh, that's nice. I don't know. You know what? I shouldn't have gotten upset. No, I think you were in the right.

No, that's not true. I shouldn't, but I reacted. I always react at a 10 when I should react at like a two. But you had reason to react. I know. Can we at least let people know what the nature of the disagreement was? Well, I started off by saying, you know, listen. I have certain, there's.

What? Just say it. I'm a hairy person and I have eyebrows that if I don't take care of them, they become a unibrow. That's just. Oh, is that true? Your eyebrows are beautiful. Thank you.

That's because Alma shapes them and takes care of them. Who's Alma? Alma's my girl. Oh, she does it with your permission. It's not like she comes in the night. You wake up. Alma. I wouldn't mind it.

And then Matt says, you also said you have a unibrow. And then I was like, oh, do you just take care of it yourself? And then you said the way you said it. Right. Yeah. So what you have. Your eyebrows would grow together if you didn't intervene. Yeah.

I have what would connect. Like I wouldn't call it like a London bridge, but it's like a rope bridge. You know, like it gets. It has a little bit of a sag to it. Yeah. It's like a Raiders of the Lost Ark. Exactly. Yes.

Yeah. It's like a. Actually, it's templative. But let's, you know, go ahead. Let's go with the man who would be King kind of bridge. There we go. Yeah. Yeah.

With Sean Connery. And Michael Cain. Michael Cain. Oh, and Michael Cain. Yeah. That's amazing. That's a great movie. I agree.

What year? What year? 64. Of course it is. Oh no. Much later than that. I don't know. That's a movie from the 70s.

Someone check please. I'm going to say that's 19. Oh boy. That could be 74. Raiders of the Lost Ark? No. No. No.

I'm going to say 74. I'll say 73. 1975. Oh. God. And your first guest was 64. Interesting. So anyway.

You were wrong too though. You were wrong also. Oh yeah. Off my whole year. But you were still wrong. Still wrong. Movie I haven't seen in many years. Still was able to name the cast.

And Sean Connery in it. Who you claim to love but don't even know the year of one of his great movies. Anyway, my point is this. I don't even have eyebrows. If you two are complaining about your eyebrows. You can have some of mine. I'm the Dick Gephart of comedy. Look it up kids.

It's a funny reference. Who's Dick Gephart? Exactly. Why can't you guys be better? 1964? Dick Gephart. No. I'm one of those guys who have my eyebrows are so faint.

Yeah. That whenever this morning I had to do a thing. A friend asked if I would appear on a little short segment with him for a morning show. And I said sure. Eyebrow talk? No. It wasn't called eyebrow talk. That should have been canceled.

Okay. Eyebrow corner. But I went on the show. And of course they spend the first 10 minutes giving me eyebrows I don't have. And one of the things is that sometimes they overdo it. And I come out of there and it looks like someone has taken two pieces of electrical tape and put them over my eyes. Groucho. Yeah.

I'm suddenly groucho marks. No, not be done away. Who's the eye? Joan Crawford. Joan Crawford. Yeah. So anyway, you were saying Sona and back to the important part that you need constant management of your eyebrows. Yes.

How often does this woman need to tend to them? Every four weeks, I think. Wow. Okay. Three or four weeks. Would you ever want to just let them go just to see what happened? I did. I'd like to see that.

I bet you'd look good. During the pandemic. Really? Yeah. And what happened? They just, you got crazy. They just, they were all over the place. Right.

You probably didn't know when it was raining. Like they just, they caught all, they caught all the water. You're like, you just looked at me like am I okay? Come on. Let me out, please. No, no, no. I just was like, you're outside. And everyone's like, we got to get inside.

It's pouring on you. Like what are you talking about? It's not raining. These giant barriers. And your friends are huddled under. Yeah. That's when you notice people. Have you ever noticed people?

Don't stare at me. Sona, in a rainstorm, have you ever noticed friends of yours gathering underneath you? Hello? I don't want to be a part of this. Is this thing on? Why are you getting me to do this? I apologize. I know.

And I appreciate that. That's why I like Matt Moore. And I'm glad that I captured this moment because this was an argument that was going to go unheard by the public. I'm also glad that I brought back the memory of Dick Gephardt, a famous politician a long time ago who had no eyebrows. Yeah. What an incredible thing for me to remember. Do you want to say anything to me about that joke about people gathering under my eyebrows when it rains? Yeah.

I think it's a good visual. I think it's a funny gag. I think it's a solid joke. Wait, oh, you wanted an apology. I do. Oh, oh, oh, yes. I'm not asking, rate your joke. When are you ever going to rate your joke poor?

Eduardo, what did you think about huddling under the eyebrows? Larry. It's the same. But the friends comment was, I thought Gordy made that comment. What are you doing? Who do you think you are throwing me under the bus? You're new here. I'm talking about a vulnerable situation where I'm hearing.

You guys are just making jokes about it. Well, I kind of can because I have a unibrow. Yeah. So I'm not joking. So you feel like I see you're a victim too. Yeah. And that's why we got in a bit of a fight. Yeah.

That's true. Yeah. You don't even have eyebrows, loser. I know. Matt Smith. Yeah. I'm a real dick get part. I'm telling you, it's a funny reference.

Look it up. If it didn't work the first time, it's not going to work the second time. It's a podcast. How do we know it's not working? I hear so many laughs out there. It hasn't gone out yet. It will. And I hear so many future laughs out there.

People in rental cars all across America are howling at this one. People on their pods. What? Ear buds. Oh, God. What is happening? Okay. We got to get started.

We got to play a show. We haven't even covered why we got in a fight in the first place. Isn't that not important? I don't care. That's true. Because I said, oh, do you do them yourself? And then I need you to replicate the tone. I got snarky.

Okay. So say what happens. Recreate. And I was saying, I was like, Hey, do you tweeze your own middle of the eyebrows? And I said, no, my wife does it. Because I thought you were saying like, do you have some fancy schmancy person that comes and does it? Well, turns out that's a real thing.

I didn't really realize. So I was making a joke about, no, I take care of my eyebrows like the common man. What kind of tool do you use? I don't know. Sometimes if I'm just trimming my beard, I'll just razor it off with electric razor. Sometimes I'll just shave it with a razor razor. If I'm shaving. I mean, I'm just, you know, devil may care.

I'm a common man, a blue collar worker. Yeah. You have eyebrows. They're just blonde. Yeah. I do have eyebrows. They're just very, very light. And that must be hard because most of your whole like life is you're doing weird feces.

Yeah. You know, like you're like, you're less a get part more of a Mondale. Wow. You too. Wow. You too. Welcome to 80s a go go. These are 80s references that even weren't even funny in the 80s.

Next year you're going to be doing, where's the beef? Yeah. We lost so many of our young listeners just now. Yeah. But that's okay. We lost them a long time ago. We never had them. That's not true.

I'm really down with the kids. I'm really down with the kids. Yeah. Who people don't say things like that? It's true. When they're off in the clubs, listening to Bex, you know, loser baby. Loser baby. Okay.

Let's get going. Okay. My guest today, I'm excited about this gentleman. He's a very talented actor. Yeah. This is Shane in The Walking Dead. I'm starting the Netflix series, The Punisher. He also has his own podcast.

I really like it. It's called Real Ones. And it's available wherever you get your podcasts. I said it before. I'm excited to talk to him today. He's a good man. A very talented gentleman. John Bernthal.

Welcome. You know, I've always liked you. You came on our show a couple of times. We clicked and I was all excited. You were coming on the show. And then I suddenly had an attitude about it this morning. An attitude? Yeah.

And I'll tell you why. Tell me. Because the guy who works here, Aaron Blair, we call him Blay. Yeah. It's just before you're going to be here. And everyone's excited that you're coming in. Oh, Blay. Everyone here is a big fan.

Oh, man. And I'm excited that you're coming in. I'm excited that you're coming in. And then Blay says, yeah, he's such a, he's man. He's just amazing. He's saying, you know, it's weird. And he wasn't doing a joke. He said, Conan, in a lot of ways, he's your opposite.

What? And I was like, what? And he went, you know, cause he's so cool. And he's like a real man's man. And I was like, no, no, seriously, seriously. And everyone in the room was like, yeah, yeah. No. Yeah.

He's like, he's like the alternate. And they meant it in the nicest way about you. And then I suddenly, I was like, shit, I think they're right. I strongly disagree. Listen. So I was just going to say, I was very tempted when you came in to fight me, to fight you. But to wait until some moment when you were vulnerable, you know, I want to do it. I want to come at you when you don't expect it.

I wanted a girly to distract you. And I wanted to, I wanted to have like a large stick or something. So I was going to wait in it completely. And still you would have taken the broken stick out of my hand. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. You know what's crazy is I have these memories of doing your show. And you were, you know, it's such a horrifying thing to do those shows, you know,

when you're, you're starting out and you were so good to me. And one time I forgot my shoes. I don't know if you have it. You probably have no, no memory of that, but you gave me your own personal shoot. They were way too big. And I wore them on the show. And you're so good to me. And, and then I saw you left with my fucking shoes and ever since then, and you wear them

even as the punisher, you were wearing my shoes, which didn't even fit the character. That's not what Frank Castle would wear. And I was like, why the fuck is he wearing my shoes? But I remember seeing you at, I think it was, it was at one of these Hollywood, I never go to these things, but it was at Lizzie Kaplan's birthday party. The great Lizzie Kaplan. The best in the world. And I love Lizzie.

So smart, so funny. And I saw you there. And I was literally like, can I, I've been on your show. Can I go say hello to you? What? And I did. I was too shy to do it, man. That's ridiculous.

There it goes for Blay or whatever his name is. Nah, man. It's right over there in the corner. Oh, that's you, dude. Nah, man. Me and him are the same. I'm as insecure as they get, man. I was like, shit, I wish I could go.

And I literally was one of those like, should I, should I, should. And I totally, totally went down. Okay. So here's how we, here's how one of the ways we're different. Just before we started rolling on this, we were chatting and the conversation started to get really good. And I thought, wait a minute, why aren't we rolling it on this podcast? That's how fun it is to talk to John.

And I was like, we gotta, we gotta get going on this. And the reason I wanted to start rolling is that you were telling a story that I can't tell. Yes. Like, you know, it's the day before a wedding. Oh, it's so caring. And you got hit. Yep.

You got into a fight and somebody hit you with a bar stool from behind. Guess what? I don't have a story like that. It's not, but look, by the way, just, just to be clear, I was, I was trying to break up a fight and, and, and, and, and I got hit over there. We were talking about doctors and getting hurt on things like motorcycles when you make bad decisions. Yeah.

And I will never forget, I did, we had gotten into a fight. A lot of ex-pro fighters or pro fighters in Sean's family. And I was trying to break up the fight, not fight. And a guy hit me from behind with one of those outdoor bar stools. And, and I got knocked out for a second. And I, I, I got, I had to get all these staples across my head and they shaved that part of my head. And I had all this dried blood because I couldn't shower, you know, and then I had to do my

best man speech looking like freaking Frankenstein. But I will never forget the look of disgust in the doctors. You know, I was, I went there to be treated and it was just like, you fucking idiot. Like, like, I don't, I have to spend my time. He was mad at you. Of course he was. Cause I'm out there probably he thinks I'm talking smack at a bar and guy probably thought I totally had it coming.

And you know, I tried to sort of, you know, sell my side of the story to him. He wasn't interested at all. But John, John, you don't understand. You have a story about getting, breaking up a bar fight. By the way, if a bar fight breaks out, I don't break it up. I quickly run and I start swiping for an Uber. Okay. All my stories, all my stories involve going to the hospital, revolve around like the

medication they prescribed. I put a little too much cream on my hand. Slightly raised reddish area. And yours is a man trying to break up a bar fight. I get hit with a stool. Yeah. That's how we're different. I don't know.

I've got to be more like you. I think you would have done the same thing. Teach me to be like you. Oh no, man. Oh no. You teach me, man. I'm not the least bit proud of that. But I will say that doctor, I could feel the palpable disgust.

And that is why I do ride my motorcycle. And my wife did sort of make a deal with me years ago. She said it's either boxing or the motorcycle. And that day I rolled my motorcycle down the street and I gave it to, there was a guy, old Phil, who lived down the street, an old army vet, I gave him my motorcycle. But now, because I think because of that bar stool, I get such terrible headaches when I box, I've quit sparring and I've quit mixing it up in the ring. So I'm back to the motorcycle now.

But I am so afraid that if I do get hurt, the doctor is going to look at me with that same level of disgust because this is a decision that I made myself. Right. Stop going to that doctor. Maybe this doctor is like this with everybody. You think that's right? Yeah. A 75-year-old woman comes in and says, I think I have chest pains.

You disgust me weekly. You suck it up with your weak third ventricle. Lupus, how dare you. A blood disease. You know, it's funny because I'm a massive fan of yours. And I first, like a lot of people, I first saw you on The Walking Dead and that's when you started coming on the show and you just pop on the screen. You're so authentic.

And you have such powers and actor and it surprised me when I learned later on. You didn't figure that out that you had this, that acting was a possibility. So a little later in the game, you were in college, right? Yeah. Yeah. It was, you know, there just wasn't really anything kind of around me growing up that made me, you know, I had nobody really in my life that did it. Right.

You know, I don't know, I think now, you know, being a dad and seeing my kids and, you know, my kids like to play with action figures a lot. Right. And I saw my oldest son, Henry, the other day kind of doing, I used to do that a lot. I used to play these little games and act out parts. And so I guess I was doing a lot of that. I think I had a pretty wild imagination, but yeah, no, no, no real, no, no real window and didn't do a lot of youth theater.

That's for sure. Right. We were very heavily into, you know, boxing. Yeah, I was into some martial arts and some boxing, a lot of sports, baseball, football, and just I was just kind of a knucklehead. I just kind of was getting into trouble left and right and really kind of lost honestly. I had really good friends, but yeah, I think I lacked, I think I lacked direction. So you feel like it could have gone badly for you, but you got off on the wrong exit

or you took the right turn and that got you into acting. Yeah, look, I mean, I met a woman, I was blessed to meet a woman in college. I took an acting class literally by accident. I thought I was signing up to Intro to Theater, which was going to be 150 people in a big theater. I thought I could maybe drop ass and watch movies. That's what I heard. That was pretty sweet. But I ended up being the complete…

I took so many courses because of that. You know what I mean? Yeah, so being the shitbag that I was, I ended up in this small Intro to Acting class with very serious acting majors and kids who really took it seriously. And I'd never really been around kids like that before. And there was an exercise that we had to talk about. We had to bring in something that was really important to us and share it with the class, like a game of show and tell on steroids and the level of emotion that these kids had sharing these objects.

I just couldn't believe it. Going on for 10 minutes about some corn cob pipe that their pap-pap had given them, some blue-shroubler CD that their boyfriend had given them. And then it got to me and I forgot, I just didn't have anything. I totally, as always, just totally botched the assignment. So I just grabbed my catcher's glove before I was going to baseball practice and I launched into this story about how my mom had died and she gave me this glove on her deathbed. And my mom is totally alive and well.

And as I was telling the story, I'm crying my freaking eyes out and everybody in the room is crying their eyes out. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on, y'all. I'm just doing the acting. And this woman, Alma Becker, I have her tattooed here. She cleared the class out and ripped me apart for violating the sanctity of her studio. But then she was like, you've got something. And your punishment is you've got to audition for this play that I'm directing.

And that was my first show. And then after, you know, I didn't finish school. I got in some pretty big trouble. And Alma came to me again and she said, look, if you really want to do this, I'll get you an audition to go to Moscow, the Moscow art theater. And that's the reason why I went out there. And she really, she really saved my life and ended up marrying my wife and I. And I mean, it's a true testament to, I just think that the power of educators and teachers

and believing in somebody, especially somebody who's lost and who has no real great talent or no, you know, I could fight a little bit. I could play a little bit of sports, but I wasn't going to do anything special with them. But she saw something in me and she jumped on it. And I think now as a parent, I'm even more, there's this new profound kind of understanding or gratitude that I have for her and for teachers in general who do that. And I just, I hope that these people, you know, come into my kids' lives, you know? They will.

I mean, that's the other thing too is my reflect on my life. There's several key people along the way. And I think the fact is, is that I don't know what I love most about this is how often you fail and how often you don't know what the hell you're doing and how terrified you are before something starts. And I think, you know, embracing that and diving into that is, at least for me, that's something that I try to do. But I'm also really, really aware that this could have gone either way so many times.

And I think that the humility of understanding that it's really the buoys along the path. It's these great people that led you this way or this way. If you're not really aware of that, you're not going to see them, you know, as you keep going. And for me, it's not just the great teachers that I had in Russia, those great coaches that I had. I mean, my best friend, Dougie Thornell, we grew up watching movies together. That's what we did. And we would sneak into Goodfellas and watch it over and over again. We snuck into the sounds of the lambs, watched it over and over again.

And it was so long, so long. I mean, decades before I'd ever be able to, you know, sort of exercise those kinds of muscles as an artist. I mean, my first five, 10 years, I was a tree or I was, you know, I was these old sort of avant-garde, you know, Bertolt Brett characters that had nothing to do with the stuff that I was raised on. But it was always, I still to this day, anything I do, I try to take it back to the Dougie Thornell test. The two of us sitting on his couch used to duct tape the remote control to a ping pong paddle. And he would laugh his ass off at stuff. And I'm like, would this make Dougie laugh?

You know, what would this do to Dougie? And it's a huge part of everything that I do. And I want to find the next person. And you never know who that person's going to be. And it's oftentimes, I think, not the genius that we think we're going to cross. It's this person that comes into our life. And if our hearts are open, our eyes are open, we'll see it. You know, it's interesting to me that you get on The Walking Dead and you're on it from the beginning.

And it's such this iconic character you get to play. And you really nail it. And then famously, you're killed not just once, but twice. Because you can't take John Berndtall out with just one. Trust me, I've tried. This man will not die. And so you get off the series. And so there are a lot of people that might think, and then that's just obviously the series is just starting to gain momentum.

And so there might be some people that would think, well, shit, that was, I wish I could have stayed on for 10 years, 11 years. But actually, I think for someone like you, that frees you up in its own way. It's a gift because then you get to go on and do all these other things and show who you are and show different sides of yourself. Of course. Yeah, it's always, I really try to exercise not calling it, not saying it's one way or the other. You know, sure, at the time, I was like, well, this is right. This is just in line with everything else that's ever happened in my life. You know, it's like, here we are.

I finally got on the show. It's finally taken off and boom, they got me the hell out of there, you know, like pack up your shit and go. And I remember going back to the walking dead to go pick up my truck. And I remember like walking out and seeing them sort of shoot this first episode that I wasn't going to be in. And I wanted to go say goodbye to everyone. And instead of saying goodbye, I just sat on this rock in the woods and just watched this beautiful sort of symphony of the barn was on fire. And there were all these zombies and I saw Norman doing this thing and Scott Wilson resting in peace, just standing out on the, you know, bellowing and just this beautiful, you know, crew and these people there in my family. And I saw them all working and I just palpably understood that's that that's, you know, I'm not part of that anymore.

That's they're they're doing their thing. And I sat there and I wept and, you know, I felt sorry for myself and I knew it was over. And look, you know, the only thing I can I can look at with walking dead is just unbelievable, just full gratitude and just full gratitude. Like what a what a privilege. What an honor. What a what a thing to play a character with a real beginning, middle and end. But more than anything, you know, Steven and Norman and Scott and Melissa and irony and Sarah and Andy. I mean, these are like lifelong friends who really taught me how to be an artist and a father and a husband all at the same time and to trim so much fat off your life and whittle it down.

And those are the guys. Those are my closest friends, you know, in this business. And you I mean, you know, those guys, I mean, they're they're beautiful human beings. Yeah, we've interviewed just I think I've interviewed everyone you've mentioned. They're great people. Great people. But differently, I would have been sitting on the truck and watching them shoot a scene without me now that I'm gone. And I would have just started screaming.

I don't fucking need you every day. You need me. I'm going to be like, hi. Conan, can you please you had two good years and roll? Let's go action. Can we get him out? Fuck you. And then I do like donuts in my truck.

I'd be knocking over zombies and be like, come on, man. Right. Right. Playing some Danzig. I don't know, man. I'll say it. I just like, you know, regret this. And anyway, you know, like, I think it's it's also OK to feel a second of that pain or to wonder.

And and but you're looking back at it without a doubt, you know, doing that show was the best thing that ever happened to me in my career. And I think getting killed off was the best thing that ever happened to me in my career. And I'm just I'm flabbergasted and grateful for all of it. I want to ask you about your podcast because I've been listening to it and I really like it. And I think one of the things you're doing on it, which I think is great is, you know, obviously we do two versions of this. One is I talk to people like you, people in the business, people who are known celebrities. And then we do another one where I talk to fans that have a question for me just around the world. And I found that it's not that I prefer one to the other.

But but when I'm talking to just, you know, I could be talking to someone in eastern Africa or someone in living literally in like Wales. And they have a question for me. I find that there's so much discovery there just talking to folk out in the world. And I know that a big thing on on your podcast is trying to find people that have like a compelling story. But it's not about whether anyone would know them or not. Yeah. And look, I love that. I love that about your podcast. And I think unlike you, you know, you're incredible at this. You're, you know, people look, there might be a few people that listen to this because they're John Berndtall fans of this episode.

But the people are listening for you because you're hilarious and you're on your iPhone, you know, how to get great. Well, as we've learned, there's a lot of people that are listening for Sona and for Matt, too. Which, by the way, frustrates me to no end. I'm sure it does. We're trying to weed those people out. You're welcome to. Are we? Yeah. Yeah.

You know, but you know, it's interesting because, I mean, this is one of the reasons I want to talk to you as I was listening to your podcast. And you have the thing that I think is so important, which is you really are curious. You really do want to talk to these people. And your, your kind of mission statement, I think, is let's find common ground. Let's find stuff that we can talk about. And I mean, I've heard you talk to, you know, on your podcast, like Lena Dunham, like a celebrity. But I've also heard you talk to people who've done time in prison, people who've been through some stuff that, you know, maybe a lot of people don't would never encounter someone like this. And you're talking to them, you're really listening and you're really trying to connect.

And to me, that's what makes it work. Thanks, man. I mean, look, I'm so deeply grateful for the people that come on. And the fact of the matter is, is the vast majority of the folks that I have come on have never done anything like this before. And I know I'm asking a lot. And almost every single person that I've had on, I have a very, very deep, a close relationship with. And we have real history with each other. So I understand that I'm asking them to do something that they're not entirely comfortable with.

But I do genuinely believe in each person in their story. I think I've just been so, the sort of kernel of it just came out of being deeply, deeply frustrated with just the state of discourse in this country. I felt that everything is agenda driven. So many of the major issues that we talk about are sort of being led and discussed by people of no real experience in that issue. And, you know, a big part of it was coming out of COVID. You know, my cousin, Adam Schlesinger, from the band of, from the band Founds of Wayne, he passed really early in COVID. Way too young, left two daughters behind. And it really kind of, it hit our family very, very quickly and right off the bat.

So we were very serious, of course, staying, staying isolated up in Ojai and we really weren't leaving for any reason. And then, you know, when George Floyd came around, you know, and that uprising started, I really wanted to be a part of it. And I saw what happened to Mr. Floyd as we all did and I was disgusted. I was horrified. And look, I'm someone who's been beat up by the police before. You know, I'm someone who has a little bit of experience with that. And I remember exactly where I was when I saw the Rodney King tape. I remember exactly where I was when I heard that verdict.

And these were sort of key moments in my life. So I was out there and I wanted to be out there. But at the same time I turn on CNN and I turn on Fox News and I would see these protests and I would see people throwing bottles at police officers and people in riot gear. And each person under that mask to me is also a father, a mother, a brother and sister. I have really, really good friends in law enforcement, close lifelong friends. So every time I'd go out, I'd also go by a district or a police station and show my support there. And it just seemed like there was this vacuum where I couldn't be for both things, where you had to pick a side. And for me, folks who really walk the walk, they don't just talk about it.

They have deep respect and even reverence for folks that are on the quote-unquote other side because they're rubbing elbows with them. They're working with them every day. My friends who are police officers down in Newton have deep, deep respect for the community. My friends who are in the community down in South Central, down in the Pueblos, they see things that police officers do every day that they have deep respect for. Of course, there's times where they're completely on the other side and there's a lot of anger and there's a lot of hostility. But these people are actually in the middle of it. And my whole idea was let's bring folks on that walk the walk. Don't just talk about it and let's hear their stories and let's see that they care about what their kids are doing.

They care about their families. They want what's best for this country, too. And what I find is all this agenda-driven war on one side or the other, that's really a discussion for people who have the luxury of sort of staying in the safe sidelines. But the folks that are there in the middle, they've got way bigger fish to fry. And again, they're constantly looking for these points of connection. And it's been a fascinating ride. We have teachers and surgeons and police officers and inmates and special forces soldiers and nurses and firefighters. But again, each one of them are people that are deeply, deeply respected from the community that they're in.

I think their stories are fascinating. And most of all, we're really connected. There are people I really, really know. And so the sort of leap of faith I'm asking you to take is that when I say this person is a quote-unquote real one, you got to trust me on it. Well, that's the thing is I've noticed when I listened to it and this is what I found compelling. Sometimes you'd be talking to somebody and I could tell they weren't familiar with microphone. I mean, most everybody I talk to knows how to speak into a microphone. Not that it's a hard thing to know, but there's a shyness almost that comes when you're talking to a firefighter or a nurse or someone who's just come out of prison.

Their approach to it is not like a broadcast or a performer or someone who's been on a press junket. They're approaching the microphone sometimes in a little bit of a different way and quieter. And I find that that pulls me in because I know that what I'm, you're capturing an authentic person here and you're not trying to get them to be something they're not. And their motive is not, you know, they're not selling anything. They're not selling anything. Yeah, and I think it's a very trepidatious. I mean, a lot of these folks, I mean, my one friend who's a smoke jumper, you know, a career force firefighter, you know, we've been talking for weeks about coming on and look, he's a guy who, you know, when the forest fires come up in Ojai, you know, I flee from the forest fires, fled.

What is it? Flee? Fled? Just get your, get the fuck out of it. We can all agree that that's the correct terminology. That's what you do. That's what one does. But he goes right into it and was really part of the reason that kept our town safe from the Thomas fire. But he's very, very trepidatious and worried about coming on. He has something that he wants to say. He wants to talk about the PTSD that's run rampant in firefighters. And that there's really not been, you know, we talk about in soldiers, we're starting to talk about it a lot in law enforcement,

but not for these guys and what they see every single day and that they're sent right back out to the field. And so he's got something he wants to share. But yeah, there's no, there's no, there's not a lot of practice. There's not a lot, there's, there's nothing slick about it. And look, it's part of the reason why, you know, we, we also make it doubly hard because there's cameras too. And I think that that's part of the experience, you know, really seeing these people open up, seeing what's really important to them. And again, I just have so much respect and reverence and genuine love for the, for the people that I come, that come on. The other thing is when you're talking to people like that, the fact that they're not always eager is a sign to me of also authenticity.

Because there are so many people in our culture that are like, come on, I want my camera time or I want my podcast time because I've got a story to tell. And that's fine. But there are so many people out there who are incredibly courageous people with amazing stories to tell. And almost their reticence to me makes them more valuable, more special somehow because they're not promoting themselves. Could agree with you more. Could agree with you more. I've tried many times to go on the real ones and they said, I've done nothing brave. No, you haven't. I have. No, John has said you've done, you've exhibited no bravery and you're not an authentic person.

Come on, come on, man. And I said, you know, I'm very right. I think I've... You're braving your, your self-promotion, you know. Yes, thank you. You're shamelessness. Yes, thank you. See, and you know what, John, that's, John, that's a form, I think that's what you're missing. You know, you look at me and you see a guy who, yes, flees long before the fire even broke out.

Yeah. And probably started the fire. Yeah, maybe started it. And also, I'm just constantly fleeing in case there is danger. And you're looking at a guy and you're thinking like, yeah, he's not. But I think in my shameless self-promotion, I am a hero. Whoa, I didn't say hero. Oh, hero.

I'm just outrageous. You know what I'm saying? No one said hero. Oh, I thought, I heard hero. No one said that. You know, I think it's the... Eduardo, check the microphones because I... Sometimes I hear hero when someone's saying coward.

Stop that. You would love that, your honor. You would love it. You know, I would like to just like completely changing topics. Sure. But I know that you've been, you know, trained as a fighter, and I've just been thinking to myself, I know I'm long in the tooth, but there are times in my life where I think, maybe now I could, I could pick it up.

Maybe I could pick it up now. I'm not even kidding. Are you being serious? Because it's such a great workout. You absolutely could. Analyze me as a fighter. I've got the height and the reach. That reach, you got those long arms.

Right. I would want nothing to do with you, man. But wait a minute. I've seen you in the gym. If you just walked in, I would look at the length as a serious, serious thing. And here's what I'll tell you. I am, but you can punch someone in the face. John Berthal is telling me that I have it to...

Why do you have to punch someone in the face? Why can't he just punch a bag or hit a handbag and start training? No, there are some people I really want to hit. We'll get there. That's always one of them's in this room. But I'm scrappy. I love to do it. I would love to see the two of you punch.

My problem is I think it would be, could I take a punch? I think you could, man. I think you could. I think it's a lot of... I got my nose smashed in. I got jumped by a bunch of people when I was a graduated high school and it was before I started college. And I wandered into sort of a dicey neighborhood in Boston and I realized I was in a neighborhood

I was supposed to be in. And I was wearing a t-shirt that had the Irish flag on it, which I'm not kidding. It had been a gift from my uncle who had been to Ireland and it had the Irish flag on it. I wasn't thinking about it, but apparently I was in an Italian neighborhood. So I got my nose smashed in by some fellows who didn't like the cut of my jib. That's how I describe them to the police. Who hit you, Mr. Bunny? The police fellows.

They didn't like the cut of my jib. But after that I thought, man, and the police were asking me, what would you do when you realize you're about to get hit? What stance did you go into when I went stance? Because I'm told I had been a little bit of a wise guy. You know what's crazy about that is you actually told me that the first time I ever did your show, because we talked about the size of my deform, just a disgusting excuse for a nose and how many times it had been broken.

And then you said to me, and then in the pause, in the commercial break, I leaned over to, and I've always been so intrigued about what the hell people actually talk about in those moments. Because besides with you, it's always been a super, super awkward conversation I've had. No, we had a great conversation. But that one, I went over to you and I said, hey man, those guys that hit you, do you think they now know that they hit you? And you looked at me like I was, and you were like, dude, it was before I was in college.

I just said that. And then the next time I saw you, I tried to bring it up with you, but I think I kind of failed again, man. Beautiful. And then failed. No, no, I think I just was thinking like, no, those guys have no idea. But you don't think now? That they beat up Conor Bryant.

And if they did, they'd be like, good. You are a memorable figure. A memorable figure. And it's cool. Thank you. We beat up a giant, very pale, kind of redheaded guy. They beat so many people up that they don't remember. They might.

They don't know. That's the rub. If they're hitting them just for the flood, but you know, there could have been other reasons that they hit you, which could have been, you know, your size, you know, other things. Also, they asked for money. And I said, no. And they said, why not?

And I said, I don't feel like it. And the time between me putting the period on don't feel like, the team don't feel like it. I didn't see it coming. It was like, bang, bang, bang. And then the anti-Italian word that you threw at him right before you did that. I swear to God, I did not do that. Then I would have had it coming.

But the funny part of the story to me is that my mom got called and she was at work. And the person who called her from like the emergency room, because I just walked to an emergency room and just blood everywhere. And the person who called her said, we have your son here, Conan. He was attacked by a mob. And she said, attacked by a mob. And my mom went, yeah, okay, I'm coming. Didn't even question, knew they're like, yeah, that wise guy, I'm sure I'm up.

She didn't question it at all. I'm on my way. Were you by yourself? I was with a friend of mine who I later, who I didn't see for many, many, many, many, many years. And then a couple of years ago, my friend John and I reconnected. And one of the first things we talked about was, I said, you were there that day. And he's like, oh yeah, I remember, you know, you were, you're being a little bit of a wise

guy. So it was you skinny, tall, you in an Irish flag t-shirt walking through. What I imagine is like the Robert De Niro version of God. Yeah, it was 1917. That's right. And Finucci drove by in a, in a, in a Model A. And he just wanted to wet his beak. He just wanted to wet his beak, you know, he didn't want too much. Yeah, we were, it was true.

That's amazing. That's amazing. But anyway, I think that's when I realized like, no, I, I, I, it is a great form of exercise. And I've always, I grew up as one of six, a couple of brothers and constant, like fake fighting, but also real fighting, wrestling. And so that has been my relationship with a lot of other males in my life has been, and my son, even when he was a little kid, I would, when I see him, I would chase him and tackle him in a rough house.

I don't do it now because over COVID, he grew to be exactly my height. He's six, four, and he's really fucking strong. And so now when I quote, have a fun wrestle with my son, suddenly my head is going through a wall. And I'm like, okay, maybe we're going to, let's play a hundred hundred repose. That's our training. Yeah. That's our training.

Take it to him. So I need you to help me. Yeah. You're going to be my, just tell me where to, you know, you're encouraging me. You're saying I could go, I could work on a speed bag. There is literally a gym right down, Steve Petromolley's gym is right down the street. He's the best in the world. You could start training there.

You, you would, you would never regret it and you would whoop the snot out of your son when you're done. You know what? This is the best podcast episode we've ever done. You should not be empowered anymore than you are. I know. I'm going to be on your corner. But also John, keep in mind, I use the old style.

I am a turn of the century boxer. You're a full-on pugilist. I can see it. I have a sash tied around my waist. I'm bare-chested. Mustache. It curls up on the side. Yeah.

Yeah. I, I years ago when I hosted Sarnat Live, I had a night, there was, I told them the writers beforehand, there's one sketch I want to do. I want to play an Irish boxer. I think you can look at it. It was being, I think it was in the year 2000, but I play a boxer who boxes this style, but I'm going against a real boxer and it's just me getting pummeled, you know, but I'm, I'm doing this and bouncing up and I've always thought, what would it be like if a guy tried

to do that, tried to do that today against like Floyd Mayweather. Come here, Floyd. I'll give you a pasting, come on step in, Floyd, I'll show you, I'll give you some creamed corn, you know, that kind of bullshit. Oh my God. I love it, man. I love it. Creamed corn.

Yeah. That's, that's my favorite insult. I'll give you some creamed corn. Okay. You're going to get beat up so bad. That's what you said to me. That's probably what I said to the Italian. Step up, fellows.

Yeah. I'll give you some creamed corn. Ka-bang! Ka-bang! Ka-bang! Mrs. O'Brien, your son's been attacked. I know. The creamed corn thing.

Yeah. It sounds like John didn't do a damn thing, huh? Yeah, really. John was smart. It happened fast. Yeah. So there wasn't much, not on John at all because this was not a long fight. Yeah, yeah, fair enough.

This was not a fight. This was not a fight at all. Fair enough. This was, I was at a giant Hummel figurine and I think there was one or two punches and I shattered and then John had a dust pen, picked up the pieces and took me to the emergency room. Got it. And I said, John, John was very nice.

He took good care of me after I had quickly inflicted all the damage on myself. Listen, if you're one of these Italian youths that remember him and Conan O'Brien back then, if you want to come on the real ones, by the way. Yes! Yes! Yes! By the way, yeah. That's right.

I'm going to, and John's not even going to call me and say they tracked him down. Yeah, I'm going to just hear like, we got someone on today, he took some wrong turns back in the day in Boston, he punched out Conan O'Brien, but you know what, he's a guy who made his mistakes, he's owned up and you're not even going to give me a heads up, right? Anyway, just to show our appreciation for you coming on the show, we bought you a Dodge Charger. It's out front. They're going to call you, wait, you gave him a car, hey, he's from like a good guy.

It's going through it. Yeah. Now you do, you do your podcast wherever, right? Do you go to them, do you do your podcast? A little of everything. So there's a biker bar restaurant called the Deer Lodge in Ojai, which is wonderful. We've done a lot there, and then we've done some out of my house, but yeah, we go a lot. We've been doing a series out of Calipatria State Prison, which has just been fascinating.

We've had full- Do you go to the prison? We go to the prison, we've had full access of all the yards and we've been able to go into the housing units, and that's just been, most of what we've been doing there is talking to this community of guys there. It's called the Elwap community, guys who are serving life without parole. And it's really beautiful what these guys have done. They've kind of all banded together.

They just really push each other and encourage each other to sort of try to find some sort of hope. And they're in classes, they're in program, and it's really changed the entire kind of culture and mindset of the prison. I mean, these are guys who literally have living death sentences. One of them, Brett May, he's gone and gotten all his degrees, he's now paralegal. He's just constantly working to make his family proud. And what I've seen more than anything is they just have this unbelievably cogent and intimate

relationship with the crime that they committed and with their victims. They've gone through this real process of shame and explored every single ripple effect of the horrible things that they've done and who it's had an effect on. And every breath they take, every moment of their life now is sort of living in service of that and in awareness of that. And they wear their crimes really with them. And I think, again, it goes back to fatherhood, I'm sure you're sort of the same way. But for me, I know what it's like to be separated from my kids when I'm working and that kind

of pain. And it's a special kind of, I go do a movie and I got to be all in because that's kind of how I work. And there's this pain because you're missing out. There's also this shame with it because you're not there and this guilt. It's really taught me so much about parenthood. There's no way you can tell me that these folks don't love their kids and they aren't completely committed.

And even though they literally can only see them in these sort of mandated, termed visiting hours, every single second, these families and these men have their kids on their minds and it's a beautiful thing to see and it's a real exploration of redemption. And in no way am I trying with any of these people to say, hey, this is the way or hey, let's get, it's just hearing people talk and hearing their stories and hearing where they're coming from. They really feel, all of us feel hopeless at some times and let's look at somebody who really experiences it in a daily way and they're finding hope and they're using certain techniques

to find that hope. And again, that's now permeated all through the prison community and it's been a beautiful thing to behold and I really feel honored that I get to be there. It's interesting because when you talk about trying to bridge these gaps and seeing how polarized things are, I think we all notice that someone used a really good word for it, which is people are siloed, meaning the way a missile is in a silo. If you're on the far right, you're in your silo and if you're on the far left, you're in your silo and there's no interaction between the two.

And I think, I keep thinking, what is the basis of that? And what I keep thinking, I have this idea recently that I'm thinking about, which is I'm tired of people pretending that it's simple when it's, life is extremely complicated. And I think more and more that, and I'm talking about both sides, if you're on the far right and you're watching that kind of media, everyone is saying, it's really simple. Here's what we have to do. We have to get back to the good old days and it can be, you know, here are the six things we have to do and it's very simple and that feels wrong to me.

And then I look at the, sometimes the far left and they're saying the same thing, which is it's really very simple. These are the six things we have to do and I think it is incredibly complicated. And so I just like it when I talk to people who admit it's complicated, life is complicated, solutions are complicated, so we need to be listening to each other, maybe let the person finish their sentence before you cut them off and say, no, you're wrong. It's really simple. People don't have the answers and there's something really refreshing in hearing that.

And I think, you know, when we go into that prison, again, you start talking to some of the guards, some of the people that have worked there for years, years, decades, wounds, stab wounds all over for when it was a really violent place and when things were all completely divided racially, they still can point to times where they saw things in the inmate population that they have deep, deep respect for and vice versa. It's a community. Those people, they don't have the luxury of not working it out. They have to work it out.

And to me, I think, you know, we've been reduced, as you said, I love the way you say it about silos. It's so easy. It's so comfortable just saying, okay, well, they're the bad guys. They're the good guys. They're idiots. And we're smart. It's so easy.

And, you know, human beings were driven for things to be comfortable, but anything in this, your career, you know, any athlete's career, fighter's career, a doctor, a lawyer, anybody that's achieved anything, you know, has gone through a little bit of pain. It's been difficult. It's been, you got to dig into that. You got to dig into the wound. And I think all this sort of flag waving from either side, all this bombast and this rhetoric saying it's them, it's them, it's them.

I can't think of, I can't think of anything less American. And I think the thing that frustrates me is that patriotism and masculinity for that matter is getting confused with being completely steadfast in your views, saying, I'm not going to bend. I'm not going to change. It's my way or the highway. When to me, that is literally the definition of cowardice. That is literally the most un-American, well, that's sit down with somebody.

That's one of the things that I think is really good as you talk about masculinity a lot that comes up a lot. It does not come up on this podcast for reasons that still escape me. No, but seriously, John, you talk about it and I think you have, it's a great vantage point you have because you can talk about it from this place of having experienced or having experienced with toxic masculinity or people thinking that about you because of whatever difficulties you've had in the past or the fighting or whatever. They can just think like, oh, this guy's, this is the point of view.

This guy's going to be coming at me from, and then for you to talk about how that can be a toxic formula and is not the answer gives you an authority in that, I think, that other people, it gives you a power to talk about that subject that maybe other people don't have. Look, I don't know if I have any power and honestly, with the sort of terms that people throw out there, I don't know. I'm no authority on that. I know that I'm a father and I'm a father of two boys and I know the kind of men that

I want them to grow up to be and the kind of young men I want them to be and I know the kind of models of masculinity that I want them to see. And I think sometimes I've talked about this before and I think sometimes it gets confusing and I think that I don't know, I do believe in discipline. I'm somebody, my kids, they practice martial arts. They know how to handle themselves in the woods. I really think it's enormously important, not for them, but also just as equally important for my daughter to be able to defend themselves and to be able to handle themselves.

These things are, these sort of cornerstones of I think classic masculinity are super, super important, but equally important is being kind, is being empathetic, is to stand up for somebody who has less rights than you, somebody who's being picked on, somebody who's being put into the corner, somebody who's just sad, getting in touch with a side of them that's softer, having the courage to do that. I had a guy on my show that I've just learned so much from a dear friend of mine named Kevin Vance who's a Navy SEAL and a firefighter and just this wonderful human being and he talks about the code of the samurai and how they, yeah, they knew how to fight and they

knew how to use swords and they were warriors, but they also had to get in touch with their quote unquote feminine side and their ability to do calligraphy and to dance and to cook and to garden and that these things are all equally important and to be well-rounded. But again, when it's confused with being hardened or being a picking on somebody or again saying it's my way or the highway, to me that is, that reeks of such fear and such insecurity. It's a classic rule in the boxing gym. I've said it before, when you come into Steve Petramalli's gym, you're going to see, I know you are.

And I'm coming in hard. I know, man. Well, my point is, is that in any boxing gym in this country, you can see it, the guy who's the loudest, the guy with the brightest color clothes, the guy who's kind of dancing around. That's me. That's all three. And that will change because I think that that is almost always the guy you don't need

to worry about. But it is the guy who smiles at you and shakes your hand and nods and says, hey, man, you want to move a little bit like, you got to deal with this guy. I'm coming in wearing a bright shamrock shorts. Let's go. And an actual peacock tail. Let's go. Yeah, a peacock tail.

And a monocle. I love it, man. Listen, I want to make sure I get, help get the word out because your podcast is doing well, Real Ones is available wherever people get their podcasts, right? Yeah, everywhere. Yes, Spotify. And John Berndtall, Real Ones, and it's very refreshing because you're talking to real people about real things and you do have the touch.

You are able to connect with these people. I think that's very cool. And you know, if you ever need help out there in the world, you know, if you get into a tight corner and you need a guy to come in and swing these, these meat hooks around. Yeah. Don't call me. Don't call me because I'm a terrible, I do not have your back. I don't.

Come on, man. That is beautiful. That is beautiful. I'm being honest. I want to end honestly. I love it. I love it. I'm a kicker.

I'm a guy who kicks and then runs. That's great. Yeah. A little scratch maybe. A slap. I can't make a fist, but I slap and then I run. I'm a slap and run guy. I love it.

But anyway, John, just a huge fan. Thanks. So nice of you to come in and proud to know you really. You're doing good work. Right back at you, man. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you guys.

Well, I just have to say it. Everybody here in the studio has what I call burnthal fever. Yeah. Ladies, very happy that he stopped by, but I gotta say this, he's a man's man. So the men are very pleased to have him here, Eduardo. I saw you. Yeah. I was impressed.

Okay. Now, tell us what impressed you by John Burnthal. Very charismatic dude. The veins that stuck out of this guy's neck when he was relaxed. Yes. Right. Right. He's so strong.

Taught. Taught that he has just veins protruding out of his neck and it's just there. I've never heard. I'm sorry. I'm a thing and I'm constantly, my life has been a series of humiliations, obviously, but I'm constantly hearing about aspects that a dude that women like that a guy has. And I think, wait, we have to have that. Like I knew we're supposed to have broad shoulders and we're supposed to work out and have arms

and all these things that I neglected to do. But then when I hear, oh yeah, he has veins in his neck. I don't even know. Okay. I'm sorry. I don't have veins in my neck. You know, that's what we wanted until we saw John Berthal in here and he had them. And then I was like, okay.

Not only do I not. Well, maybe he's got high blood pressure. Should we be worried about it? Right. No. You know he doesn't. You know he doesn't. Not only do I not have neck veins at show, I might not even have veins in my neck.

You know what? You know. I'm with you on this. Yeah. I went and had an MRI recently. They found no veins in my body. They said the blood is just sloshing around loosely and they said that I was, they did. They said I was technically more jellyfish than man.

They said I'm a big bag, a six foot four bag and stuff is sloshing around inside. And then John Berndthal comes in here with actual veins and suddenly I'm the loser. Well, do you think John Berndthal would compare himself to a jellyfish? The things that you say sometimes it's like, come on dude. Okay. Well, so I understand I'm no Berndthal. I get it. I was impressed too.

I really liked the guy a lot. And you know, that's a guy, I want him at my side when the apocalypse comes because I've seen him in action in all these different shows that he's done and all these different roles that he's done. This guy knows how to handle himself. He's the real deal. He's the real deal. I want him at my side.

Right. My friends now who I love, I love my friends, they've been my friends for like 30 years. But you know that like Rodman, Greg, if trouble breaks out, all three of us are gonna faint at the same time. You're gonna faint. And then how are you gonna like, how are you gonna contribute to society? Like a sitcom? Yeah.

With no cameras. Yeah. There'll be no cameras left and no actors. And the three of us will be in the woods making something kind of arch and witty. And we'll say, this is what we have to, and then three, like three arrows go into us simultaneously and we're eating, we're eating our protein is robbed from our bodies. But my thing is that, yeah, he's, I saw Eduardo Blay, I saw you gazing at him and Blay, you were the one who, to be fair, before he showed up, and I'm trying to psych myself up for

the interview, you said, you know what? I love him. He's so the opposite of you, Conan. Why would you say that? Well, you know, I love his work, obviously. Oh, so that's why he's the opposite of me. No, no, no, no. But I will say, and I don't, I'm trying to think of a way to say this that's not gonna

come off. Just go for it. Just go for it. He's got such like, first of all, he's also very funny. Very chill, cool energy. He just smiles at you and your chest just opens up. Now, I'm not saying around you that I'm not always on my guard and you give off this energy that maybe is, it's like being near high voltage lines.

Yeah, yeah. But he's just, I felt just like, I would just melt it. Didn't he? Like, just being around him, he's just tense. He did. Blay did say if they were gonna do a remake of twins, they would do it with you and Jon Bernthal. So instead of Schwarzenegger and DeVito, Jon Bernthal would be the Schwarzenegger and

I would be the DeVito. That's correct. Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't take that as an insult at all. I admire DeVito a great deal. I think he's a terrific performer and actor and I'd be happy to fill his shoes. Completely agree.

I just think it's, what you're saying is that I give off an electrical charge that makes you tense and right now you're clenching. I'm nervous. Your whole body is clenching. I'm nervous. You're gonna like, I know you're, I'm out of arms reach, but I'm still nervous. You're gonna come around the table. Hold on.

I'm trying to see if I could reach you. No, I can. I'm nervous. No, I know exactly what you're talking about. I always identify people who, we always look towards what we're not and I'm like looking at Jon Bernthal and I'm thinking, yeah, he's got some groundedness that I don't have. And I'm sure, please God, have this be true, that there are some qualities I have that Jon wishes he had.

That's not happening, though, is it? No, very hard. Jon's driving home. Jon's driving home. Jon's driving home right now. Jon's driving home. Something like, there's no quality Conan has that I want. No, no, no.

But what I'm saying is, I do understand why everyone here is smitten with Jon Bernthal. It's the same thing with Goldbloom. There's an otherworldly X factor, like he's been, Bernthal's got old school Hollywood charisma. Yes, yes, he does. Bogey or even, he reminds me of Fred Ward. Do you remember that actor, the rest of you? Reno Williams strikes again.

Well, actually. Well, I'll give that to you. It's Reno Williams. Actually, no. It's Reno Williams. The adventure begins. Okay. I think I took my own life right there.

Wow. I think of him in the right stuff. Yeah, exactly. Tremors. Tremors, yeah. Tremors, yeah. Great actor. Oh.

Yeah, no, he has that kind of energy. And you also see it in Reno Williams. Here we go. Oh, sorry. It's not real. Wait, what are you talking about? It's not what it's called. Don't even joke about it.

No, what is it called? It's called Reno Williams' Adventure Begins. I think that's what I said. Oh, that's not what you said. No. Anyway, he's in Tremors. He's in right stuff. And Reno Williams, one more time, cast a deadly spell.

Okay, fine. But let's just go back a little and correct our errors here. Reno Williams gets it done every time and let's have fun. Fun's fun. We're having fun. Okay. But let's take this seriously. Okay.

I think what I thought was cool about him, I mean, a lot of the actors are like, oh, I had a theater background and I went to like school for it and stuff, but then he comes and he's like, oh, I got beat up by people. I got beat up. I fought a lot of people. And that's just like, that's just cool. Well, can I say something? And I want to just stress to our listeners, I don't think one should try to get beat

up. I just don't. I think, and Sona is putting the message out there to a lot of impressionable young people listening. That's just cool to get just beat up. No, I didn't mean it like that. No, but you know what I mean? You know that I've been in many a scrape in my day.

No, you haven't. You talk about the one fight you've been in all of it. No, no, no, I've been in countless, because I can't remember them all. So many times I've woken up on a floor with glass in my ear. No, that's a different. It's the one where they smashed your nose in, that's the one fight you've been in. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

You're going to fight and he's going to turn out later on that I fell asleep in front of an Acer computer. I remember one time you told us and fell on the keyboard, you got a big gas in your leg because I was carrying trash and somebody put a tuna fish can in the oh my God. That doesn't count. Oh my God. You shouldn't say that story. You got punched like John Berndtahl.

I got punched once. One time my mother said you have to take out the trash. I was wearing shorts and someone had put a tuna fish can in the trash bag. Like you do. It chunked up against my, I still have the scar there and I had appendicitis and I had shingles in one eye. These are, so don't tell me I haven't been in my share of scrapes in my time. How do you not know the authentic title to Remo Williams?

Yeah. I've constantly, I've constantly been in this shit constantly, constantly been in the shit. There's shingles in one eye. Yes, I did. So you had shingle? I had shingle in one eye and tell me that wasn't the equivalent of being in a massive prison brawl.

You know, I've gotten into it and I'll get into it again. I'm a real brawler, a king mixer. Once I use the, once you see these ham hocks coming your way, you best find cover. That's what I say. Oh man. I'm getting the sign to wrap. Nothing more intimidating than a rhymer. That guy just rhymed.

We better get the fuck out of here. Hey, it worked for Ali. That's all they feared was his rhymes. That's true. Oh my God. All right. Trust me. I'm an amazing brawler.

Let's just leave it at that. Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gorely. Produced by me, Matt Gorely. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solotarov, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson, and Cody Fisher at Year Wolf. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Will Beckton. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brick Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message.

It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.