Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Kumail Nanjiani Returns Again

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

Comedian and actor Kumail Nanjiani feels twitterpated about being Conan O’Brien’s friend.Kumail sits down with Conan to discuss his new special Kumail Nanjiani: Night Thoughts, old lady drug dealers, how he’s been received internationally, and the real-life coming of age experience that inspired a favorite Silicon Valley scene. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/conan. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi, my name is Kamel Nanjiani. And I feel Twitter-pated about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Oh, that's huge. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we aren't going to be friends. Because I can tell never we are going to be friends. Hello and welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a friend. I am sitting here with Sonom of Sessian, Matt Goorley.

What's that? I say hello. Yeah. You brought up an issue. You doodled this cool-looking guy. I doodled this guy. He's wearing, I don't know why I doodled him, but he's awesome. He's wearing farmers overalls.

I don't know that he has a shirt on. He's got a big mustache. I don't know why I drew this guy. I don't know who this guy is. You guys both love the 70s so much, which I think is very, like, mustache-heavy. And I'm just curious why you guys have never, like, you've never grown a mustache. I've had a mustache before. Just a mustache.

Just a mustache. Not for long. In theory, I really want to do it. In my mind, Sam Elliott. In the mirror, Ned Flanders. So you come out as Ned Flanders. I think so. I think that my mustache doesn't, well, first of all, I've had a beard and accompanying mustache.

But a mustache alone, I would look sort of like Michael Cain in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. You know, like it's- Oh, but that's not a horrible look. No, no, no. What I'm saying is it's Michael Cain so he can do anything because he's Michael Cain. I just, it would be kind of thin and I think I would come across as evil. I think my true evil would and purvey would come out. And I just did something, I did a shoot where they put a small mustache on me. And so I can show it to you.

And you know what? I look like a creep. I think it's just purve. But if you can indulge me for a second, which I know you can. Let me see if I have one too. Well, I'm just going to say my dad has always had a mustache and he's the coolest guy I know. So I just, if I was a guy, I feel like I'd have a mustache. Hey, if I had your dad's mustache, then fine.

Yeah. And I've tried to imitate your dad's mustache. mustache many times. You don't, taking a dinner napkin and putting it above your mouth is not, is not. How many times have I sent you pictures I've taken of me on a plane or just me out in the world where I put a very large white dinner napkin under my nose and say, look, it's your dad. Too many times, actually. Too many?

I think there's a decent amount of times and then there's too many times. But I think you're just obsessed with his mustache because you guys are, oh, we're both, we're all on our phones. Well, I'm trying to find something. That's a beard, though. Oh, here we go. Here we go. Look.

That's not bad. I don't know. That looks cool to me. That's like a... This looks cool to you. No. Hello. Hello.

I want to be friends with that. You have to do it that way, though. Look at this. It's like a line above the mouth. What an awful guy. I'm not kidding. I searched my photos for me with a mustache because you can do like AI search of your photos now. What is his name?

Gene Shallet. That's Jean Shalett. That's right. I'm sorry. This guy is constantly being arrested. This guy is being... I don't know. Look at that. He's being arrested. He's being... Right? That's a terrible guy. I don't want to be that guy.

I don't know. Well, Movember's coming up. Maybe you guys should grow mustaches. What do you think? You don't like that guy? Have a mustache for the podcast. What do you say? Tell me what you think of this guy. He's a bad man. He's a bad. Look, and his eyes are dead. The mustache takes the life out of my eyes. But you guys need bushy big salmon.

Elliott-style mustaches. Can't you make that happen? Like, figure it out. I don't know. Is there like a murkin for faces? Yeah, it's called a fake mustache. Yeah, I've got seven of those in my wallet. For other reasons, you don't need to know.

I have a picture of me of a mustache store. Oh, I got plenty of those in my car. I'm responsible for a series of unsolved crimes. I don't know. It would be cool if you guys just, you're so. into the 70s and Tom Selleck and cool guys. I think it's just like my dad if I had a mustache because in the 70s he had a mustache. Oh wow. Look at that guy. See? Yeah. Oh, not who's the who's the guy. Who's he died. He's, he died.

Oh, the guy that died. Yes. The mustache guy. No, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. What are you talking about? There's a mustache guys. There's a really cool guy with the mustache. Sam Elliott's still alive. Not just Sam Elliott. Theodore Roosevelt had a mustache. Feudor Roosevelt had a mustache and he's dead. He died. He died. He's a cool guy. Ver Reynolds. Oh, well, he died, yeah, like years ago.

Yeah. You act like the mustache kill. He had mustache cancer. Sir, there's nothing we can do. Well, you could shave it. I don't want to shave it. Oh, well, then you're going to die. Well, I guess my time is up if there was only a way.

Moustache cancer. You have mustache cancer. We don't think we can operate. Well, what if I just shaved? Well, that would save your life. But we don't recommend it. Why not? Because it looks cool.

What a weird thing to say. Oh, my God. All right. My guest today is an actor, writer, and comedian who started in the hit HBO series Silicon Valley. He now has a new stand-up special on Hulu called Kumail Nanjiani Night Thoughts. I am delighted with this fellow. He'd be cool. with mustache.

Oh, God. He's cool with anything, in my opinion. Kumail Nanjiani, welcome. Twitter, what? Twitter-pated. You know that word? No, I don't. It means like obsession, but not dark obsession.

Oh. But it could turn dark. It could turn very dark. Twitter-pated is like when you're like, you've done three dates and you're like, I think this is something, you know? I see. This is that.

Well, you and I have done more than a few dates. Yeah, that's right. I've been a fan of yours for a very long time. You were so kind to me. I'm going to thank you on Mike when I got this wonderful Mark Twain Award in Washington. And these amazing comedians came out, which is a big deal to get to what. No one goes to Washington, D.C. by accident. You have to go there with great intention.

You guys all showed up. And you came, and it was a, I didn't, I was not in charge. It's kind of like a surprise party. They don't tell you who's coming. They don't tell you. All I know is I'm going to speak at the end, so I thought about that. But I didn't think about, I mean, who's going to come to this? And I very, I think, correctly thought, I wouldn't go to this if I didn't have to.

And you were hilarious. You did a TED talk about me. And it was a fan fucking-tastic. Oh, thank you. And it meant so much to me. Thank you for being there. And you put so much thought. into it and you're such a smart comic. I loved it. Oh, thank you. It means so much to me. I was

going to thank you for having me, but I guess I should thank your team for having me there. Yeah. I was against you coming. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I had a list of people I don't want to see. They got a hold of that list and misunderstood. They didn't read the top. I don't want Letterman. I don't want Adam Sandler. No Will Ferrell. It really meant so much to me to be there. Yeah. It really, really did because I've told you, I do comedy because of you. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's so funny to me, by the way.

I was noting this because I was working and I just got done and I've been catching up on episodes of this show. Your whole thing, you're so like with them to calling yourself a comedy legend and stuff. And then when someone pays you a compliment, you cannot fucking handle it. Yeah, that's true. You totally crumble. You can't. You cannot change the subject quickly.

No, he can only brag downward. Yeah, exactly. You called yourself Beethoven. You called yourself Michelangelo. And then I'm like, hey, Conan, you're like a true legend in comedy. Why is he turning red? You are. I mean, I truly meant so much to me because I genuinely do comedy because of you.

And, you know, the fact that all these people were there, you know, Colbert, all the people who turned out, Letterman, Sarah Silverman. Yeah, Wolf Forte, Will Ferrell, everybody's there. It's a testament to how people see you. And also, like, I went up to, I'd never met Brian McCann. Yeah. And I didn't really meet him that night. I just went to him and said, I've had, I've got bulletproof legs stuck in my head for 30 years.

And he said, Brian McCann, one of our great writers, who was also a performer and did so many, he was the always disappointing FedEx Pope, which was his title. Yeah. And Bulletproof legs, which is one of my favorite. Bulletproof legs is so funny. I've had it stuck in my head for 30 years. I said that to him. And he was like, thanks, that's really helpful. But all those people being there.

and it was such a magical night. And I truly, for me, like, that day came at, like, this really weird time where I had, like, other stuff. And I flew in for that day. I flew out the next day. I wanted to hang out longer. But I was like, I have to be there for Conan because it's so important to me. And I kind of, to be honest, psyched myself out a little bit.

Really? Yeah. I, like, overthought it and got, like, way too nervous. And I wanted to be able to, like, I enjoyed watching everyone. I wanted to really, like, it meant too much to me for me to not be, like, super nervous. Oh, that's interesting. It didn't show at all. I mean, it was such a funny idea you had, which was a TED talk about, what a, what a non-compliment. You had a great idea. Well, no, you know what for me? The execution? Execution? We all know you're not an

execution guy. No, no, but that's my highest compliment. Oh, thank you. It's really fun when you come up or something when you're like, oh, this is a thing. This is something. I can't believe nobody's You got to wear the little headset. Yeah, I wanted to wear the little... You had the clicker. Yeah, it was really nice to get a very sweet message from Sona and nobody else right afterwards. No, you sent me. The message is a message from me.

No, you sent me a very nice text. Well, as well, but it meant so much to me to be there because you know what was interesting? So I've been catching up. I don't know how old this episode is. As you know, I'm a big fan of this podcast. I was listening to your interview with Andy Sandberg. And you guys were both talking about your love of like silly comedy and how you've always loved it.

When I was a kid, when I was a little, little kid I liked it. I liked Jerry Lewis and Lauren Hardy and Three Stooges. But as I started getting like 8, 9, 10, the last thing I wanted to do was be stupid. It was very important to me to feel smart. And so I didn't like anything that was silly. I really rejected it. My favorite things were like, you know, like something like Groundhog Day,

which was, it's an amazing movie. but it's sort of like, this is an intellectual thing to it, you know? And those were the things I really, like, loved. And the thing that made me fall back in love with silly comedy and realize that it can be very smart was your show. Oh, okay. And now I look up to it, you know, like silly comedy is so hard to pull off. But really, you made me fall in love with it.

Well, thank you. I think one of the things that I've always thought, and I talk about this on the last TBS show, there is this intersection between stupid and smart and it's this weird like Ghostbusters when they all cross their beams

like whatever there's this magical thing that happens I do think there's an intersection between really smart and really stupid and I've talked about that it's been my obsession of my life there's this little golden spot

and you can't hit it all the time it's hard to get it and when you do get it it's like holding onto a moon beam it's gone the minute you get it and you just have to content yourself with the hunt, that is my religion. My religion is every now and then there's something where there's, this is very silly. Oh, it's so stupid. Wait a minute. I know something

smart's happening here. There's a flicker of something smart happening here, but it doesn't last. It's just for a second. Yeah. And you can't explain it to anybody who doesn't get it. And I didn't, you know, so it was your, it was your comedy and Beavis and Butthead around the same time, but I was like, oh, really stupid stuff can be made by obviously very smart people. I want to talk about your work, and I'm going to edit this out and just make it all about my work. Just you talking about what it meant for you to get the marked weight price. Yeah, and how I think you're correct. And Conan does all his own editing.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm really good at it. I'm really good at editing. But I just watched your stand-up special Night Thoughts, and I really loved it. And one of the things that you talk about in the beginning was you started as a stand-up. And it's fascinating because it's very important to you up front to say, look, guys, I know you think I'm an actor who's now dabbling in stand-up, but I started as a stand-up.

And what's fascinating to me is I know you enough to know that you were petrified of getting in front of people, absolutely terrified of getting in front of people. And yet, I don't know if it was you took a lufa to your soul or something. You decided I'm going to do the thing that scares me the most and get in front of you. of people. Yeah. That was a huge hurdle for you. Yeah. I mean, I was a very, very shy kid. So people who know me as a kid, knew me as a kid, are very surprised I do this. There's really no way to describe it other than I love stand-up too much to not do it. Like, the only thing scarier than doing it was not doing it. And I remember, I have the sense, memory of what it felt like to go

to an open mic and sign up and go up in front of these people that I didn't know. And doing it in Chicago was a very intimidating comedy scene, too. Like, it was kind of like rough and tumble, And a lot of great stand-ups were from, like, my class there. But the only thing that hurt more than doing it was not doing it. So that's, I really, if there was any other way I could do stand-up, like, without people in front of me. Which I did do, actually, quite a bit. I just thought of a very dark story about that. Oh, my God.

Let's hear it. You really want to hear it? Yeah. It's a little funny, but it's also sad. Are we ready for this? Yeah. You just described my life. Yeah, I know.

That's my autobiography. A little bit funny and very sad. Okay, well, let me try and find a palatable way through this. Inherently very sad story. So my scene in Chicago, you know, was it was me, Pete Holmes, Hannibal Burris, Kyle Kinane, Matt Brong, like all these, Beth Stelling, like all these really, really, really funny people. And the funniest one of us was this guy, his name was Pad Price.

And he was, like, better looking than us. He was cooler than us. He was funnier than us. The girls liked him more. He had, like, a great job. He was just, and he was, like, a great guy. And he was just, like, naturally very, very funny. And he told this one story once, a very funny story about,

he did, like, this bar show outside Chicago, and there were just, like, four people, and two of them were facing away. And his friend was like, his friend was, like, he was telling his friend this, and his friend was like, yeah, it's going to be a great story when you make it. Like, I did a show for four people and two people were turning away. And Pat was like, yeah, but what if I don't make it? Then that's just what I did in my 20s. And then Pat Bryce passed away in his early 30s.

We were all in Chicago when that happened. He was like 31 or 32. And it's weird to think that is what happened. And I only say that because he would think that was really funny. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Jesus. I told you. Not the part where he passes away. He wouldn't find that fun. No, no, no. I assume he hated that part. Yeah.

But he was, I see you trying to get out of this. He was a really funny guy. We talk about him still all the time. And it's just one of the, you know, you probably, I don't know if you have this where it happens a lot where you're like, I'm sure you know this too, where you're like, well, the funniest, the most talented person was that person. And now they're like a school teacher somewhere, you know?

That happens all the time. They just didn't want to do it. I mean, in my case, there wasn't someone who was funnier than me. Oh, Jesus. I mean, I just have to get the record straight. Well, there wasn't. I mean, there really wasn't. I mean, I think what's funny is usually...

Okay, I'll invent a guy. Bill Googaboo. You know what? Gugaboo. He interrupted me for that. He was great, and he was so much funnier than me. Is it funny? But then one day, he ate a big sandwich made of me, and he's gone.

Are you happy now? I'll bring you back. You really are a comedy legend that is an inspiration. to everyone who's doing comedy my age. No, of course. And that's why it's moving away. No, but it's like, no, but it's so funny how, I mean, it's all the things. It's funny.

It's sad. But of course, you come up through life. And I have learned to embrace the fact that I met so many people who are just absolutely incredible and some don't seem to move up the ladder. And you can, some aren't alive. are and it just never quite happened. Yeah. And there isn't a reason.

There just isn't. Yeah, it is. I mean, we're very lucky that we get to be here right now. You know, there's a guy, there was one guy, I won't say his name, who is like truly like, just so brilliant, would kill every time, new ideas every time. He was also an artist. He was a painter. And he was like, I kind of like doing that more than this.

And it was, we were, it's like, this is the most important thing in the world to me. And the fact that you can have that talent and just not really want to do it. I couldn't ever relate to that. No. Well, you hit the nail on the head when you said we're lucky. Yeah. You have, I was talking earlier about how ideas having a great, like a weight. One of the thing I noticed in your special is you have imagery is really important to me.

When someone has an image that really resonates with me and in one part of your special, you're talking about your cat bagel and how it's impossible. A veterinarian says, just give the cat these pills, like these four. these pills and you're saying how because I've had this experience recently we have three cats and trying to get a cat to eat a pill is impossible and you had this great image which is you're saying to the vet like how is that going to happen I mean um if you put a big play of spaghetti in front of a human and it has four Tylenol sitting on top of it they know yeah that is like that is such someone and I could in that moment see you I mean I could see the image I could see the image of a big play

of spaghetti being put in front of some marinara sauce and there are these big big big Tylenol or relief pills, I'd be like, what the fuck? Yeah, what are you doing? What is this? That's what Bagel did. She would like eat around the pill. Of course they do. Because she's like, this is obviously not food.

They're like us. They're absolutely like us. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I had a long bit about my, you have a cat too. Yeah, and that's funny. We're just giving her pills, but she will eat anything. So she will not eat around anything.

She eats the pills. Really? Yeah, she's crazy. Our cat, well, since then, can't get away from this. our cat did die. Oh, fuck. Oh, God. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A couple of downer stories. Sorry, no, no, no. She was, and to be fair, that cat was much more talented than either one. She did open mics in front of four people and was like, someday this will be funny. She just didn't care.

Yeah. She wanted to lick her own ass. That's all she wanted to do. Exactly. That was her, licked my ass. That was her true passion. Yeah. I mean, I had a beautiful, beautiful cat.

Her butthole was the ugliest thing. I've ever seen. And it was always, it's all, it's like all she wanted us to see. She was like, you like my face, but what about my butthole? Yeah. What about like the entirety of it? Like, put your tail down, ma'am. I have some respect.

They have no, they have no respect. They don't. They don't. She'd sort of prop up a magnifying glass and just walk behind it. It's like, yeah, she has like a periscope to it somehow, wherever I'm looking. It's like whenever I looked in my house, her, her butthole was the thing I saw first. Yeah. The observation I had, just watching you do stand-up was it's that combination of you have great ideas and images.

You have great images. You talked about, I mean, I'm not going to give away your whole special, but there was one specific thing. where you're talking about in the old days when you would have a weed dealer and you were talking about the experience of you know when you went to buy it you need to hang out with them it was just a thing where you hang out with

and you said like and you know they'd want to you'd have to watch a little bit of the Matrix with them and again that's true but that image like you picked you picked the perfect movie and I can see you sitting on a shitty couch yeah in the Chicago

watching some of the Matrix and I remember going to this guy's house and it was always like too many guys there or not enough guys there. So it's like 17 guys with backwards baseball hats hanging out watching the Matrix or just you

and this guy watching the Matrix. I don't know which is worse. And it's also this thing where you're like pretending to be friends with them and then they bring out the weighing scale and all pretense that this is a friendship is gone. Right. Now it's suddenly very much a business transaction. Right. Right.

The other thing I talk about there was this old lady used to like sell like weed muffins in Chicago at like certain bars on the weekend. And you'd go and you'd hope she would show up. And it was always a magical mystery. You don't know how much weed she'd put in. So you wouldn't know if it was going to be like, I don't feel anything or like I'm going to be in bed for five days. I say this in the special thinking about every email I've sent in the last five years. I don't want to like do things from the special, but, but it's, it's, and now it's all, you know, very, this is exactly how much what you're going to feel. Yeah. I mean, that's a little bit of what you're talking about is this

concept that if you, you can have a favorite song and it's just magical to you. If you start to really break down what the song is and you listen to it a thousand times and you understand what the changes are and how they work, some of the magic starts to rub off and, and erode. And I think you're talking about this thing in our culture where once things are legalized and then labels are put on them and everything's explained to you very thoroughly. This is exactly how high you're going to get. And these are probably the images and fantasies you're going to have. And this has all been signed off by RFK Jr. You know, he's approved him at all.

And how did he sign? How did he sound when he signed it off? Well, I wouldn't be able to sign off. No, he's voiced by Catherine Hepburn. We all know that. Today. You're an old poop. Yeah, exactly.

I was telling someone, I think I was telling Rose Burn this, Rose By the way, I'm so excited for that movie. One of the all-time great titles, by the way. Yeah. Thank you for promoting my movie on. I'm so excited for it. It's great. But I say my movie, it really is the superstar.

of this project are Mary Bronstein, who's the writer-director, and Rose Byrne, who just is a phenomenon. She can do anything. She can do anything, and I love her to death. But she texted me, I think, yesterday and said, you know, yeah, I'm doing hot ones. And I thought, what is it about our culture where, in order to promote her movie, she needs to ingest 40 pounds of toxins. It's self-flagellation. Yeah. And so I said, I texted her back and I said, if Catherine Hepburn were alive today, she'd have to do a web, a web talk show where she sits on a toilet and eats a chili dog. Like, you know, well, I think was Spencer in the scene, shut up, Catherine, we'll get to that in a minute. You haven't pooped yet. You got to poop, Catherine. Well, all right, I'll try. I'm not feeling it just yet. Don't you had a big opening weekend, Catherine? Yeah. You're not going to go via. all right i'll eat the chili dog and so it's it's but that's what would happen today you're like well marlin brando what do you win well i'm in this you know thing called uh you know on the waterfront now hold on marlin you know you've got to drink 10 bottles of this diuretic

whatever you're about to say he's done on his own anyway so he's doing it his private life better than any of us yeah you know what you were saying about how the imagery and bits and stuff What I'd love about doing what we get to do is, you're right, we're in a world where there isn't that much mystery anymore. You know, I know exactly if I eat this gummy, I know exactly the level of high I'm going to be. But I think when you watch movies, TVs, watch great stand-up jokes, whatever it is,

there is like new stuff in there. It's so hard to get any new stuff, like, walking through the world. But then I watched, you know, I just did a show this week with Largo and at Largo with Mullaney and Nick Kroll and watching their bits. I'm like, that's new. I've never heard that. I don't know how you thought of that.

And if you explain it to me, it wouldn't make any sense. But it's like magical new things that you get to experience. No, that's what, that's why I'm, I love seeing younger talent. I love hearing what they have to say because I get surprised. It's just so nice to be surprised at my age. When I can be surprised, it just tickles me pink, you know. Yeah. I know the phrase is, I'm tickled pink, but I wasn't pink.

It tickles you pink? It tickles me to the point where I become pink. Okay. Buddy, you start off pink. Yeah, I was going to say, it tickles you, you. It tickles you, you. It tickles me, me. I'm tickled.

I'm tickled to me. So nothing changes. You're just tickled. Tickled to me. I say I'm tickled Conan when it happens. No, this is just reminding me that whenever I just got back from shooting an episode of my travel show in the Philippines. But whenever I've been, and, you know,

if I've been in when I was in Ghana, when I go to these places, Cuba, people come up to me and they are concerned from my health. Because they, I'm not just white. I'm translucent. Yeah. And there is a caring, like, are you okay?

I'm like, this is just what my people look like. Should we be able to see the bones through? A lot of other layers. It conveys a weakness. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. They're concerned. I know.

I think it's very sweet. You're concerned. Every time you travel, I'm legitimately concerned when you come back, especially if it's like a hot climate, I'm worried about you. I feel like for you, it's always like, you know, when people get the bends when they come up out of water? I feel like for you traveling every time on a plane is that. Well, you have to, like, you know what they should probably do?

They should probably anytime I do a travel show, the plane, before it takes me back to Los Angeles, it should first take me. to a field in Ireland. Yeah. And I have to be there for a week. Deep pressure. You're like Superman. You have to like get power from your, from your land.

It's definitely not like Superman. Sorry. That's the only way. It's kind of an inverse. I think he meant an inverse. The only way you like Superman is that it's like everything is kryptonite to you. Yes. I have to get back to my super weakness.

Including sun, which gives him power. But it hurts you. It's clouds and rain. Yeah. Exactly. You know, I have to ask you because you bring. brought it up at the very beginning of your special where you walk out and you say,

don't let these muscles freak you out. These are just decoration. They're decorative. They're for show. I have to say, very impressive. Very impressive guns. Thank you. And I'm glad someone else in comedy

is not afraid to get jacked. What do you mean by that? What do you mean? What do I mean by that? Are you talking about you? I'm fucking jacked, man. Yeah, I'm jacked. No one talks about it.

It is weird because now people perceive me differently and they think I'm a different person and I know I'm not. I'm exactly the same person I've always been. I just really like working out a lot now. But so all this other stuff that goes with it. And it was interesting when I was

so I hadn't done stand-up in like six to eight years. Right. And during the actors' writers' strike a couple years ago I was like freak. I was like, what do I? I was like feeling very creatively, frustrated so I was like, I'll try stand up and I'll see if I still like it. So I did a bunch of shows at Largo, the place

we love. And Emily was like, people experience looking at you very differently than they used to. So the way you are on stage has to change. Like, she was the one who really was like, you can't be the same comedian. You have to do something different because you look very different. Right. And so that's something I had to be very

aware of when I was doing stuff. The last thing I want to do is talk about how I look. Yes. But she was like, you kind of have to address it. Yeah. No, it's good. You come out, you mention it right away, and you're very self-deprecating about it. Yeah. These are decorative. I've never been in a fight. No. It is funny, there's this misconception that people, if you work out a lot, then you would be good in a fight. Nothing is further from the truth. The best person in a fight is just someone who, you know, has that mentality. And they probably don't, they don't need to have lifted a single weight in their life. Yeah. They just have that, I'm going to punch your face in, Matt Goreley.

You don't have to get so specific. I don't know. I'm just going with this. I'm going to flow state right. now, and I just want to describe beating you to death. Oh, gosh. Death. Yeah, that's, boy, that escalated quickly. Just pounding and pounding away at that. Okay. At that, uh, insoucissons.

Excuse me? Just that face that looks at me like I dare you to hit me. I feel very confident saying that's not a word. It's not. It's in sweat. It's in, it's watch on. I'll smash you. But your punch is what hurt more, right?

If you had to fight, if you had muscles. I don't know. Eduardo's with me on that. Yeah, I agree with Conan. I think so, too. because you've got nothing to lose. It's people that are just, they fight because they've probably been punching people

since they were eight years old. And they've got nothing to lose. And it's their whole life. I mean, can you imagine bringing yourself to punch someone like full force? I assume none of us can't. Just a couple minutes ago. I see Gourley regularly running through that.

Eduardo's shaking or nodding. I punched somebody full force before. When I was a kid, this was a middle school. And did you punch a grubly? No, I've never, never punched the grown-up before. So how old were you- He punched a kid when he was an adult? Who and why?

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, who and why? I was 13, I was wearing glasses. This was a classic bully story where somebody pinned me up against the wall, took my glasses off. Just try to play keep away, basically. And my first instinct, when I tried to ask for them back, my first instinct were just pop them straight into the face. And you did?

And I did. And how did that go down? Did you get your glasses back? back and it was never bothered again by by this guy and his friend oh that's a good lesson yeah you don't the people you don't like yes yeah full for yeah thank you at war no but but i mean everyone comes in with some sage advice worthy of gondy but no but be great if that happened to gondi when he was in high school and he just beat this shit out of somebody and then not proud of it fully you should be but first of all yes you should be because that guy had it coming and you probably did

him a favor. I don't think he did that to anybody else. Actually, we were friends after that not too long after. So, yeah, it did change. I noticed you're not wearing glasses anymore. I learned my lesson. And I don't want to bring it back to this, but that guy now is dead. He was funny, though.

He was the funniest of all of us. He was just trying to do a funny routine about glasses and he needed your prop to, yeah, that's all. He was just borrowing them. Yeah, I don't know. I've not done that. And I don't Imagine I could do it.

No, I don't think I could. I mean, I am, I look strong. I can barely move. Like, I'm genuinely useless in any practical situation. Right, right. I noticed that you had to be carried in here. You came with five people and they carried you in. They made like a chair, a basket chair with their hands.

Oh, my God. It's crazy. It's weird. Then they rubbed all these oils into you. It's strange. They were chanting. They were chanting. They had huge ostrich feathers.

They were cooling you with. My writer has gone insane. we had to meet all these crazy demands I did find out you know I was I was I was like I always get like whenever I do a show or I'm somewhere very specific like snacks and stuff

yeah and then at one point someone was like I don't remember exactly what it was someone was like by the way that thing was very hard to find I'm like well yeah why did you do that they're like it says in your writer you have to like have this thing and like clearly my writer got messed up with someone else because it's a thing that I don't have like any connection to I don't enjoy. One thing I've experienced, which is if you have a slight preference without you doing

anything, that becomes a demand. And so what happens is I'll say, well, I like a Coke zero before I go on because it's the caffeine and that's, you know, and so you'll just say that and then you'll show up some places. This sounds like a humble brag or it's not. it's just very strange to show up and there's a refrigerator filled with that thing and you're thinking

this could, this is a restaurant should have this on hand and it would last them a month you know and then it becomes like oh my God if Conan shows up and there's not a Coke Zero there we're all dead yeah and it just feels odd it just became well if there's one I'll take one

if there's one around but that can it's a game of telephone I just saw Jay Kelly which is an amazing movie with George Clooney and your buddy Adam Sandler. Phenomenal movie. Jay Kelly is basically a version of George Clooney, a guy who's been a movie star his whole life. And at one point, he's in a dressing room

under the cheesecake. And he's like, why is there always a cheesecake? And Adam Sandler says it's a new writer because you like cheesecake. He's like, I've never liked cheesecakes. And the entire movie, every other scene, there's a close-up of a cheesecake. In almost every frame, there's like a slice of cheesecake somewhere.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess I'm Clooney-esque. That's what I take away from that story Yeah, you mean a lot to all of us comedians Who started out as actors And then we're on ER and became I want to ask you something about Because I know this about you

That you're a cricket fan I am And it's a it's I don't think I'm a dumb person But I've watched cricket many times When I've seen it Have you? Well, I've just not live But when I see it

I'm kind of fascinated by it And I watch it I cannot decipher cricket I just can't decipher it and I don't understand it. I could watch a game with you. Like, it's about the length, the shortest one is about the length

of a basketball game. Right. And you would know cricket very well by the end of it. And I just, I just talked to these, the rest is history podcasters who are amazing,

and they're from the UK and from Britain, and they love cricket. Yeah. And they might as well say, I love watching glip-glop. I don't know what it is. I don't understand it. It's like Quidditch, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Here's the big problem with cricket when people, American people try and understand it. They're trying to equate it to baseball. Yes, I superimpose baseball over it. You have to forget baseball. It's a ball and a bat. And then people make fun of me for like, it's almost similar.

It's really not. You have to let go of baseball. And that's when you'll like understand what. So I think I have to unknow baseball, which I've been watching my whole life. Are you a big... Just for like a little bit. You don't have to like eternal sunshine baseball out of them all.

No, it has to completely go. That would be like, we have amazing technology. What do you want to forget? I want to forget the rules of baseball. I want to forget every association or memory I have. It's $300,000. Are you sure that's what you want to spend it on? Yes, yes.

It's either this or that G-Wagon Mercedes, and this is what I want. And then I'm explaining it to my accountant. Wait, what is this? This is a lot. I need to forget baseball. Every association I have watching the Red Sox from when I was a little boy in Boston. Boston, it has to be removed completely from my cortex. Are you a big baseball fan?

Well, I am, I grew up. Baseball was the biggest sport. Was it? Right. When I was growing up, because the Patriots weren't a thing yet. They existed, but they weren't a thing. The Bruins were huge, and we all knew Bobby Orr and the Bruins, but I didn't sit and watch hockey a lot.

It never, but it's a religion. Baseball is a religion in Boston, the Red Sox, specifically the Red Sox. Right. So that was the thing that entered my bloodstream. Right. So that's good because that's kind of why cricket, I really love it because it makes it feel connected to Pakistan. You know, like I haven't been back in a long time. I've been here more longer than I was there. But it's really where I'm from. I am Pakistani. But sometimes I can feel disconnected from it. When I watch cricket, it makes me feel like I'm back home. How are you perceived in Pakistan? Do they clearly?

you as a native son? I think it's complicated. I don't really have a good sense of it, to be honest. I think there are certain things about me that they're proud of, and then there are certain things about me that they have complicated feelings about, like the fact that I'm married to a white American woman. I think that that's seen in a complicated way. I think they like that I'm successful, but, you know, I think it's complicated.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it, I think that makes sense. And I think it's usually complicated for, you know, for because I'm 100% Irish genetically. But if I go back to, yeah. But if I go back to Ireland, I can't claim that I'm one of them because I'm not. I've been gone. We've been gone for, you know, 120 years. And so. Do you feel connected to it culturally? I do. You do. Well, I feel. connected to that air. I mean, we were joking earlier, but every cell in my body when I'm in that climate is saying, oh, thank God, you know, what were you doing living near the Mexican border? Right. I'm, you know, I'm, that's right. I want it to be about 40 degrees or 45 degrees. I want it to be raining. Yeah. And these are not things I actively want. This is my body telling me you're supposed to live in a bog. Right. And you're supposed to have died about 30 years ago.

That's how I feel about when like when I lived in Chicago, my body in the winter was like, you are not made for this. No one's made for that. Go to the equator. No one's made for that. This is not about you. No one is made for that. I don't, I mean, I don't know the history of anything you do.

When people first settled there, weren't they like when it hit October, like, we got to go somewhere else? They should have been. Why did this stick it out? I think there's those big lakes and they thought, this is, um, Someone started grilling sausage, and they're like, this is amazing. We could block off whole streets and just eat sausage. Yeah, and arteries.

Simultaneously. I don't know. I think that all the time because Chicago is not, I was there for a summer in 1988 with Robert Smigel and Bob Odenkirk. You guys did that show. We did happy, happy, good show there. And what I remember is, oh, I know Chicago is brutally cold in the winter, but it's going to be really nice in the summer. It's the most uncomfortable I've been in my life was the summer of 88. I was living in a tiny apartment with no way.

My room had no window. And I was, I would practically weep at night. I was just sleeping on a futon. And I would rush down to my car, down like three flights of stairs and sit in the car and run the air conditioning in my, 1973 Plymouth Valiant. And then turn it off and run upstairs to try and go to sleep. But by the time I got up there, I was just as hot as I had been before because I ran up three lights of steps. So you've never felt a Chicago winter.

It's not like a New York winter. No, no, no. It's that wind coming. I have. I've been there in the winter and I've felt that wind coming off those lakes. Yeah. It's like the world is trying to kill you every single moment. It feels genuinely like tiny monkeys with knives are attacking you every time you're outside.

I've been attacked by monkeys with knives and now I completely get what you're saying. As it was happening, you were like, I feel cold. I said, this feels like Chicago. And they're like, what? What? That's what I'm stupid. That's not stupid. It's a combination of stupid and really smart.

Is it? It's a gold ingot. I missed the smart part. Wait a minute. No, I'm looking. I'm checking. That was just stupid. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Yeah. had an incredible career. You started out and stand-up, and then you do this work as an actor. You didn't just have success. You had terrific success, you know? And I've told you this before, and I was...

If it's nice, you could say it again. Okay, I'm good. I absolutely love Silicon Valley. And I just, there were scenes in that that I think about to this day. And I just had lunch recently with Alec Berg. And I was reciting things to him. I was reciting.

I didn't know. How do you know Alec Berg? He and Jeff Schaefer worked on my late night show for a very short time. I did not know that. Before they wised up and got themselves to Seinfeld. Yeah, we know each other, but he finally said, hey, let's have lunch. Because we never really got to sit down and talk about everything. Yeah, and he's such a smart, funny writer.

And we were talking. And all I kept doing was, you know, fanboying out about Silicon Valley. I loved your character on that show. Would you say he was your favorite? No. No, I wouldn't. I hate that honesty. I love the show.

I don't even respect you. No, no, I love the show. I love the show and I'm going to say you were my least favorite, but because the show was so good. Still pretty good. It was, no, it wasn't even pretty good. No, okay. Hey, thanks again for doing Twain.

Well, no, you got to play such great and you did it really well, but you didn't get to, but you played so well the insecurity of that character. Yes, he's like, he's a wise ass who's also very insecure. Insecure, right. And when someone makes fun

of the little necklace you're wearing, the next scene it's covered up. Yeah. And then they call you on that and you're denying that you're covering it up. I love, so that happened. So there's a, there's a story in the show where we get a little bit of money,

we're a little bit successful. So I go and buy a gold chain and I put it on and I'm all peacock it and then Martin Starr's character, Gilfoyle, who are always going at each other, starts making fun of me for it. And there's like a really funny scene where everybody's just going around and making fun of me. And T.J. Miller's character, Erlick, says, he calls me Bell Biv Dinesh, and sings, sings, that chain

is poison. Yeah. And then there's a part where like the whole episode builds up to, we're going to go in, it's called Skunk Works and we're going to go in and we're going to sabotage this. There's like a whole scheme we have. and we're going to, we have like stuff where that we're sneaking into our own workspace and we're like, okay, so to really feel like nothing is a mess, we have to keep making fun of Dinesh's gold chain.

Otherwise, people will know. So as we're walking in Zach Woods' character goes really loud for everyone to hear. He goes, nice chain, Dinesh. Do you choke your mother with it when you fuck her in the butthole? He goes too far. He goes way too far. And then... It's like he's trying this comedy thing

he's watched other people play with but he doesn't know what it is. Yeah, exactly. Doesn't really what it is. And Thomas Middleich's character, Richard is so thrown by that he falls down in all the papers that we're trying to sneak in, come out.

And the whole scheme falls out. And you think we're setting up the whole season and it's completely like destroyed by that one line? That storyline happened because over the summers they would meet with us, the writers would Alec, would have a meeting with us

to be like, do you have any stories that might be good for like you being like a loser. And so that story is from my real life. I was like at one point in high school, I bought a silver chain and I thought it would be cool. And people like started making fun of me mercilessly. And then I couldn't take it off until I was off their radar

because then they knew that they'd know that's why I was taking it off. Right. So it looked like every morning like put on this fucking gold chain. That would get heavier every day and like burn my skin. That's great that that's from your life. So that's from my life. And it's funny because they, like, changed it from silver to gold. Like, my real life was too lame to be the lamest character on a show with just lame characters.

They had to make it slightly cooler. Otherwise, it was too sad. Yes. My real life was too sad. So great. It's so great. There's also a line where the... I guess it was my...

I guess it was Thomas Middletch reveals his, the logo that he wants to use. This is very early on. Oh, yeah. And it's one of my favorite lines, which is delivered by you, this is he reveals the character and it's like a Peter Pan that's wearing a Pied Piper. Yeah. It's got like kind of a Peter Pan sort of hat. He's got like a feather in his hat and he's got a flute.

And you, you talk about how it looks like he's holding a dick. Yeah. It's something like, it looks like he's sucking a dick and he's got another one tucked behind his ear for later. For later. Like a snack dick. He says a snack dick. He says he has it tucked in for later.

And I'm like, for later. I just loved, I mean, I love the whole thing. But you just said it looks like he has an extra dick tucked in his hat for later. And I'm just like, I'm just going to keep this dick for later. And I'm still laughing about that. I'm reciting it to Alec Berg. We're having lunch.

Um, and, uh, I'm just very, I'm very pleased for you that you've been able to, uh, have this kind of, it's unusual for people to, you can do it and stand up and then you can explore this world and I think really nail it. And then decide, I'm going to go back and do a standup special. Yeah. After all, it's been, what, 10 years since you do? Yeah, it's been close to 10 years. It was right when you started making the big sick, which was 20, 2016 that I stopped doing stand-up. And it was really exciting to go back, but it was also like scary because I had to learn to do it again. I'd sort of forgotten. And the performance, I don't know how interesting this is. Maybe it's not interesting at all. But the first, I was like, I'm going to go see if I still like it, and I'm going to try and recreate the conditions of when I was really doing it. So I set up seven shows over the course of two weeks.

And I was like, I'm going to do all seven of these and see if I could still enjoy it. And then the seventh one felt a little bit like old times. And I was like, oh, fuck, I think this is back. So the first two weeks went really well because, you know, I hadn't done standup. People were excited to see me. I felt nervous. I felt really present. And then after that, the next few weeks were not as good.

I wasn't, as I got more comfortable on stage, I was getting, I wasn't doing as well on stage. And I was like, why is this happening? And I realized it's because as I was getting comfortable, I was defaulting to how I was on stage 10 years ago. And I wasn't the same person now. And it was, and it felt disingenuous to the audience. The audience could feel that I was doing something that was different from who I am as a person now. And so I had to sort of go out and be like, okay, I'm going to go out on stage and not be beholden to any, like, not even try and do well. Just really try and see how I want

to be on stage and just like really lean back and see what comes out. So I'd like relearn how to do it. And then I'd relearn how to write it. It's very different from writing anything else. It's interesting because the one thing I've noticed about my own experience recently is I'm always been myself. I've been, I'm just myself. And when people don't like what I'm doing, they don't like me. Do you know what I mean? So, you know, it's true.

It's just like I don't I don't like Conan. They're not talking about that Conan guy. That's me. Yeah. I'm so, this is who I am. I'm the comedy comes out of my sense of who I. am. If you don't like it, that's me you don't like, which can be very painful. And I found doing this movie role recently, that's not me. That's a different person. Oh, yeah. Was that

the first time in your career? You've done that? Really, yeah, most times when people want me to be in something, it's as Conan O'Brien saying, you know, this character is on our next guest, whatever, which, you know, is not that fulfilling. But I had this weird detachment from it like well if they don't like that guy that's not my business and by the way my thing is so immediate i do it and then it comes out hours later some you know sometimes with the podcast a week later but most of my career has been do it say it and then two hours later people are seeing it at home yeah there's not like a tremendous amount of prep going into it like i assume you were doing your late night show yeah it's that day you prep for that night and then next day it starts

And so it's all immediate, or if you're doing live shows, I got to go out there right now and I'm very like, oh, my God, here we go. And then there's this experience where, you know, that thing you made where you had to be somebody else and you made it two and a half years ago? Yeah. It's coming out now. And I'm very, oh, I hope people like that fellow in that thing. It's this feeling of that's not really me. So you've had it the other way where you're very much, I think one of the hardest things about stand up is that they don't like you. They don't like you.

Yeah. But then you've worked this other field where... Well, I figured out a way that even if they're rejecting a character of me, I'm playing in a movie, it still feels like they don't like me. Yeah. It still feels very personal. Yeah. And it's also...

So how did it feel to have your performance in someone else's hands? You've never had that. Yeah. You have to trust the director. I would maybe not have liked it if I didn't... Mary Bronstein, the director, is one of the most confident clear-eyed people I've worked with and she just

she wrote this. This is a story she knows backwards and forward. She's very much in control and I just thought I will I completely gave myself over to her and I was completely trusting of her. That's the best thing you can have as an actor is the feeling of safety with the director

where you're like I trust them to make me I'm in their hand. That's why I'm very interested in never doing this again because I thought that was an incredible experience. I'm with Rose Byrne in scenes, people seem to really like this. I'm out. I don't want to have the other experience. It's a really truly horrible feeling to be making something that you're going to be doing for four months with the director and you're like, I don't think this person knows what they're doing.

There's truly one of the, that's the worst feeling I've ever had. And my wife was in a coma for a week. I can't get away from this. Sorry, take that out. No, no. That stays too. What was your prep going into it? A lot of prep.

What did you do? I worked with Mary Bronstine really hard. Did you like come up with like this guy's backstory? She was suggesting that we do that. And when she first suggested, I thought, come on, you don't need to do this. And then she was right. It really helps. I mean, a lot of the prep that actors have to do is so stupid.

And it feels so, like, pathetic. but it really is very helpful. But one thing I will maintain is stupid are the warm-ups that people do before an improv show. I've always thought those were stupid, and whenever I've been asked to come back and do some improv

and they want to bring me out to an alley behind, you know, it's a benefit. We're all going to do improv to raise money for an important cause. Can I just give the money? No, buddy, it's going to, everyone's going to love seeing you out there again. And when you're back there and they go,

let's play liby-labby-lubra hubba-hubra hevita hevida I'm like nope this is doesn't not help you no I've never done that so no no I'm I doesn't help me it just irritates me yeah and I think it's a hidden prank show I think that's the thing that comedians have that is hardest for me to that was the most challenging thing for me with acting is that there's always part of you that's so so self-aware and knows are you like and it's a great thing to have because you hear so many actors talk and they are not self-aware at all. And it's like, I'm sure that's what you did, but I wouldn't tell anybody. Yeah. But comedians have, so there's like a part of you that's always like,

this is a little bit stupid. And acting at its core is like very stupid. Oh. It's really stupid. Like, I'm going to, oh, you say this now. I say this. Oh, yeah. I'm an architect today. It's so stupid. I'm glad you said that. I did not like my father because he did not, you know, whatever it is. Yeah. My career in baseball did not work. And now I'm sad. something I'll say the same thing back to you 40 times it's so stupid and you have to like forget how absolutely fucking stupid it is you know what I love that's why I love doing a late night show all those years or doing this is that I can always be present with and honest about this is stupid but I love it you're absolutely right that you never gave me what I wanted yeah is at its core very

silly it's so silly you can't you can't see it cut are the donuts here yet That thing is so weird. And then you're talking, you're hanging out with the actor that it's action and now you're a different person and I'm a different. It's so, but I do love it so much. Oh, good. And I love it because so much, and I'm sure you have this too. It's one of the challenges is to be like really present in the moment, really like listening

to someone and reacting in life. I was thinking about what I said, that was stupid. Or I think this thing I did a week ago, I hope they don't think it was, I should email them right now. Or I have to do this thing later. So much of my life is thinking about what I did or what I'm going to do. That when I'm acting, I truly feel very, very present in the moment. You have to be.

You have to be. Yeah. Well, I'm going to wrap this up because you've been talking and talking and talking. And I mean, it's just awful. It's just awful. It's just going to be you the whole time. Take me out. Well, you know, we do a line with it.

We do this a lot when I'm not happy with the way something went. And this is, of course, today. We take you out. And then it's just, we have lots of extra tape of me just talking about me. And we fill that in with your, you know. Well, you already have stuff ready to go. You've already recorded stuff that they take, okay. Yeah.

And so it's just going to be, people will be confused because they'll hear, oh, this is great. Conan's talking to Camel. This can be really funny. And then there'll be some confusion that it's me talking. And then when the parts where you were talking, it's just more me talking about me. But I love those episodes. God, stop listening. Hey, is that it?

We're the end of it? Yeah. Wow. This was great. Did we talk about anything? We talked about, I think we kind of talked about everything. It really did fly by. I have fun.

My special. Yeah. Are you saying it? I am going to say that it's on Hulu and it's called Kumal Nangjiani Night Thoughts. And it is really funny because you're really funny. You're one of those people I just always enjoy. I'm crazy jet lagged with, I'll tell you this behind the scene story, crazy jet lag. crazy jet lag from this trip I took for my travel show and I was on the other side of the

world. I just got back and I'm completely out of it and my staff was saying, you know, you're so tired and out of it. We should probably move this podcast and I said, who is it? And he says, it's Kumel. And I was like, no. That is someone, that's like a treat for me. That's like saying we canceled your birthday cake. So that is not happening. So sweet. Thank you. Thank you. But thank you so much continue to thrive and I just I really love being your friend. Oh my God. That's so, I want to also mention really quickly before I go back to saying what I want to say about you is I'm also in the new series of Fallout, which is a show I love.

Oh, God. I love Fallout. Isn't it a great show? Yes. So I have a little part in that season two that's also out on Amazon Prime probably right. But you said acting is stupid. Yeah, but I'm really good at it. Yes.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. Take that out. It means so much to me that I get to be your friend and text you and have you respond. Like, truly genuinely, I do comedy because of you. And I've talked to other friends of mine who say the same thing. They're like, we do comedy because of Conan. Like, what you mean to us is, I mean, and the fact that you're still, like, around and you engage with us. And you keep, like, reinventing yourself and changing who you are while still think true to what we love about.

It's very rare for comedians to grow up and still be like, you know, you lose a lot of heroes as they grow up. And I feel very, very grateful that we don't lose you. That's so nice. I have to say, my big fear always was, oh, my God, you get older and please someone tell me, like, stop, stop. Worley says it all the time. But I try. And then I have my people that I look to and one of them is Martin Short. I'm just like, and I'm like, okay, that guy is the generation ahead of me.

and he's still as funny as a person can be and Steve Martin and I just say okay you know they can do it you can see if you yeah I don't know we're your Selena Gomez

you're welcome yeah truly I'm definitely your Selena Gomez you're our lighthouse you really are you really are like the person we look to to be like

all right it's possible to not turn into a giant asshole as you age we shall see I was with my friends last night. This is a story that's still in Brooklyn. He just makes some notes here. Corley is not buying any of this shit.

I was having out with friends last night, and I mentioned I was doing this podcast, and people started quoting your bits, and someone said this joke that was so, it was from the year 2000. I want to get it right, and it was you and Jim Carrey, and you tried to make him laugh with something,

with the mask, the movie that he was in with the green face. I forget what, but he, like, kept, together and it was his turn he said to you i heard you're going to be in the mask too the return of rocky dennis it's such good writing it's such a good show yeah oh my god all too true all right well thrive and i'll see you soon i hope thank you yes conan o'brien needs a friend with conan o'brien sonum of cessian and mac goarly produced by me matt goarly executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leow. Theme song by The White Stripes.

Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brick Con. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts,

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