Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Marc Maron

Episode Date: January 7, 2019

Comedian, actor, and podcaster Marc Maron feels nervous about being Conan O’Brien’s friend.Marc and Conan sit down this week to chat about beginner podcast tips, difficult interviewees, health scares, and why they don’t hang out. Plus, Conan receives feedback on his showmanship from his assistant Sona during a new segment called Ways In Which Conan Is Like Freddie Mercury. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.This episode is sponsored by Campaign Monitor (www.campaignmonitor.com/CONAN), Athletic Greens (www.athleticgreens.com/CONAN), tasc Performance (www.tascperformance.com code: CONAN), and HotelTonight.

Hi, my name is Mark Marin and I feel nervous about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Hello there and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. Pretty simple idea. This is the show where I, Conan O'Brien, talk to people. A lot of them I've known for many years. They've been on my show many times. I'm just trying to find out, could we be real friends? Not just on the air talk show pals, but real friends. And I'm aided in my quest by my trusty assistant, Sonam of Sessian. Hello. I am Don Quixote and you're my Sancho Panza. Okay. I am Batman and you're my Robin. Okay. Right? I think that's fair. Sure. I don't, Robin's not as, he's not cool. He's not interesting. He's not brooding like Batman, but I'll take it. Yeah. No, you're, you're definitely a chipper. You're definitely Robin. Maybe you're Robin. And I'm Batman. You think you're Batman? I think I'm pretty cool. I do. Okay. It's weird. But okay. I guess I'm Robin to your Batman. Because I think of Robin as Batman's assistant. The way you're my assistant. Yeah, but I'm going more by personality. Like Batman is cool and Robin is like not as cool. Okay. We'll talk about that later. Okay. Also aided by my producer, Matt Gorley. Matt, you do all kinds of stuff and I don't understand it. You put things through filters. You touch various buttons. You have levels. What do you do? I'm the Alfred the Butler of this podcast. Oh, you're Alfred. Yeah. I'm living there in the podcast cave. Just keeping things, wearing a tux, keeping things tidy. So you're Alfred. Sona is Batman and I am Robin. Yes. Who seems to be doing a lot more work than Batman. That's for sure. Yes. In this context, yes.

Well, what a weird trio we are. But we're working together on this quest to find friends. Today we're going to talk to someone I've known for a really long time, Mark Marin. Mark has been struggling in the podcast space. And maybe this will give him a little bit of a boost. He could use it. Yeah. Anyway, I'm thrilled he's here, Mark Marin. Why would I make you nervous? Well, yeah, I think you're relatively nervous and I'm kind of a guy that has limited boundaries. So I pick up on your anxiety. You pick up on my anxiety? Yeah, you're making me. What are you yelling already? Because every time that you have come on the show. Yeah. And it's been 25 years. Yes. I think you've been on the show more than anyone else next to Al Roker. Yeah. You and you're in the Al Roker League. So congratulations. He's a lot more happy than me. Whenever you're on the show and after all these years, you're saying that I make you nervous. A little, yeah, but not like not in the way where I'm sort of like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this or if he likes me or something. It's just that you're pretty amped. So I got it. I got to get amped. And sometimes when I get amped, you know, it's hit or miss with me. But with Roker. Wait a minute. How dare you put that on me? You're putting your whole personality on me. You're a neurotic guy. Yeah. You're an anxious guy. Yes. You are not a settled zen guy.

That's right. And suddenly you're here saying, yeah, I'm that way because of you, Conan. No, I'm just saying that you amp it up low. I amp it up. I think I'm very calm. I'm a very calm guy. See, even how you say calm is making me anxious. Sona. Yes. Am I a calm guy? No, that's Sona. I'm not Sona. I'm Sona. Hi. Do I think, are you calm? Would you say I'm a calm, centered zen? No, I would not say you're a calm person.

There you go. Honestly. I think you're pretty, I agree with Mark. I'm sorry. I am, I'm sorry. You think I'm tightly wound? You're, yeah. Okay. I think you are. Maybe you should, well, that was nice, but maybe no more of you during this conversation. Do you remember one of the first times? I mean, I have to be honest that I think that I deserve,

I should be, even though me and Al Roker have been on roughly the same amount of times, maybe him a little more, is that he has this built in thing. Every other or every two appearances with Roker, you could go like, wow, you lost the weight. See, with me, fresh every time. Yes. Yeah. You, I have to come up with a new idea every single time I talk. Well, you kind of wait for me to kind of start it awkwardly.

Yes. I never, I never understood why that happened though, even though it became a thing with us, I do not understand why. Here's the brilliant thing about you. There are many brilliant things, but, and I'm, that was just a comment. I like it. I like it. Here's what is amazing about you.

Yeah. 25 years, you've been on so many times. Yeah. And every time you come out, every time you come out, and this is back way before WTF, way before you were Mark Marin, the podcast God, the Mark Marin. Before, before I became a mid-level celebrity that half the people knew. Yes. You were hot, you were above mid-level.

You were high mid-level. Yes. High mid, I'll take it. Yeah. Okay. Long before all that, you would come on my show, do panel, and you would always dig a hole. You would dig a hole in front of the audience.

Never intentionally though. I know. But you would dig a hole, the audience would turn on you, and you would always dig your way out. I know. And I don't know how you did it. Well, I mean, that's the way I work. That's how I create.

But I never planned on it. I always thought when I got out there, whatever my idea was to start the thing with was just going to nail it. Every time I'm amazed, I get out there, see, I don't know if it's my energy or my reacting to your energy as we've already established, where if it's a tone thing, but I put the first thing out, and then nothing, and then you look at me, and then it's like, you did it again, and then I got to look at the audience and go, really? And then they like me.

Yes. But there's always that beat. You would turn on the audience. Yes. You would have the knowledge that you would start it badly, and you would do this every single time. Yes, every time. And I'm telling people out there listening to this, you can go online and look up Mark

Marin appearances. From the beginning. From 1993, almost to the present, it's always the same. You go out, you say something you shouldn't say. We planned it. Maybe we didn't. Maybe that was my problem. No, you would freestyle it.

At the very beginning. You would freestyle it, and you would say, you know, the Nazis, give them some credit for, and then bang. The Nazis were anti-abortion, right? Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. That was something like that.

You know, Hitler built the Autobahn. That's a good way to get around. Well, it would have been the other way. It would have been the Nazis were pro-abortion, like there was a good thing about the Nazis. You just revealed. Choice, pro-choice. You just revealed. I don't know if it's true, but I'm just trying to make an example.

Yeah. And now I just did what I did on the show. Yeah. Now everyone out there thinks, I just did it again. That you are anti-abortion. That's what they think right now. Just hearing that quip. I don't know.

That was not the point of it. See, this is how it happens. See the dynamic that's unfolding? Yeah. And then you have to save me, and then I can get back on track. That's why it happens. So you can save me. So you can look good.

I'm going to tell you something. What? I've been very happy for you because the podcast exploded. You are on the Mount Rushmore of podcasts. It's your face chiseled into a mountain next to Ira Glass, next to Sarah Koenig. I mean, this is huge. Ira started, he was a radio guy first. They just loaded up his radio show onto the podcast platform, and he found success because

he already had it. I would like him to be removed from that mountain. Wait, you're throwing shaded Ira Glass? Oh, hell yeah, I'll throw shaded Ira Glass. Okay. How can you just talk like that all the time and act like it's going to be good for 30 years? Anyways, no, I love Ira.

No, you don't. You should be. No, I feel you do. No, you have some resentment towards Ira Glass because he started in radio and then just shifted over into podcasts. He didn't shift. They just put his radio show on there. Yeah.

And so you really helped develop this format. Exactly. You helped create this format. I'll take it. Yeah. You are a giant in the podcast industry. That's right. Yeah, I'd say that on the mountain, a little more hiking up to me from where Ira's nose

is. Okay. That's all. No, no. Let me say this more clearly. Ira's sort of towards the bottom of the mountain. He's how you access the mountain. You step over his face to then start climbing the mountain.

And then when you get to the top, there you are, Mark Maron. I would say that everybody who like, I think what Ira did and what MPR has done, what everyone's done with podcasting is anything that brings people to the medium, to getting it, to the access. Because there's a whole generation of people to this day. My father, who I think is lying, can't figure out how to listen to one of my shows. But that's a whole other, you know, if we want to talk about that, we're going to have to get some of these people out of here.

So why? Because it's personal and I wanted, you know, but that's what you do. I know, man. You go deep. Sometimes. You go deep and you get inside. I'm not going to do that on this podcast. I'll do it naturally.

But, but no, I'm happy for anybody who brings people to the medium. So they have choices. Okay. Well, I was diplomatic and I love Ira. I've listened to a show several times. I get moved. It's always a good story. You never know where it's going.

He's obviously created something amazing, but it didn't start as a podcast, but I have respect for him. Sure. You ended with the passive aggressive resentment. Yeah. Okay. Here's what I want to say. Mark, you have this podcast and I had such respect for your podcast and I went on your

podcast and it's revered that for that reason, there were many people that said to me, Conan, you should have a podcast. You have a quick agile mind. You have a smooth speaking voice. You should have a podcast. And I said, no, I won't do it because I have a TV show. Mark has the podcast. Then you betrayed me.

You got, listen, you got Marin, the TV show. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That wasn't enough for you. Then glow. Right. Okay.

Yeah. You have two TV shows and a podcast. Yeah. That is why I'm starting this podcast. Out of spite. Out of spite. Yeah. Why should you have two TV shows and a podcast and me just a TV show?

Yeah. No, I get that. And I think, all right, checkmate, I guess. Yeah. I guess I win this round on it, buddy. I guess you got in at the right time. There's only 90,000 podcasts. And I think you're-

Is that true? I was told there are very few of these. Yeah. I was told by my people that- Your timing is perfect, right? Right at the point where people have had enough of podcasts, you're launching one. I think that's great. I was told, I was assured by my people that there was you and like one other and that

was it. Yeah. It's only, just the 10 on iTunes that are listed in the top 10, that's the only ones that exist. Don't ever scroll below that. No, it's going to be great. This is news to me. This is news to me.

You're doing a great job already. Listen. Yeah. I respect you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. What's your advice?

Is there anything you could tell me about a podcast? Are there things I should avoid or are there things I should be doing or how do you prepare? Give me some advice. We've been friends a long- Well, not friends, but we've known each other professionally. Do you remember the advice I gave you right like the first year of your show, like one of my first appearances? It was so funny because I was in a different place in my life there and I told you before

I go on, I told you my mantra, which was hide the hate. Yes. I sort of took that with you. Hide the hate. Hide the hate. Well, that's also, that's a very Irish-Catholic thing. We hide the hate. If you hate someone, you tell everyone but that person that you hate them, but you never

tell that person. No, hide the hate and display the shame. That's the Irish-Catholic, right? Yes. Yes. Advice for podcasting. I don't know. For me, I prepare, I see your notes.

My notes look more like just your handwritten ones. There's never any typed things with me. And I usually just do bullet points or scattered, I do almost like a weird collage of bits and pieces I want to know about. So it starts to look like the inside of my brain. So I don't have any ordered way of sort of asking questions. I just have a bunch of ideas about the person or bits. Like if somebody cured cancer, you don't want to miss that one.

That you should probably involve that in the conversation. Like I tried big achievements or things they're known for. I'll throw that on the list. I'm looking through here for big achievements or cancer and a lot of cone ends. You already did it. You did it naturally. Hold on a second. I don't see any.

You don't have any curing cancer? No. Let's see. It says here you got a Latin Grammy. Yeah. See, this is good podcasting. You're not prepared. It's a human moment.

You're looking through your pages. I... There's a rough edge to it. Yes. A lot of times you hear my neighbor working on his yard, occasionally people would knock on the door. Sometimes when Andy Richter was on, that was what got me to get an air conditioner. Like Andy came on and it was summer and it was in the garage and I had not put a unit

in the window yet and Andy almost died. I don't know if he's talked about that publicly, but I'd never seen a person sweat more than that. Well... And after that I got an air conditioner. Ed Helms had a cat allergy. I didn't think that the cats would trans... There was no cat ever in the garage, but he was wheezing 40 minutes in and I needed an

hour. So it was hard to listen to Ed wheeze and watch his throat tighten up. There are two things you should know. Yeah. Okay? Because you're carrying a lot of guilt here. No, I think we're okay. I got an air purifier is what I'm saying.

That's what got me to do that. Andy... Someone sent it in. Andy Richter sweats in a snowstorm. You should know that. Yeah, good. And number two is Ed Helms has tuberculosis. Oh my God.

Yes. I don't feel bad anymore. No. Great. He played banjo, I think, and he was like... It was... Ed Helms played banjo. I believe so.

Am I making that up? No. He does play banjo. That's what he does. That's his thing. Yeah. Is he plays banjo? Yeah, he did.

He played some banjo in my recollection. Nice collection. Steve Martin, I believe. Yeah. That's all Steve does now. Right, apparently. I wanted to have him on the show, but he was like, if we only talk about banjo. And I'm like, I'm not doing that.

You said no to Steve Martin? I did. No, you don't do that. I did. Wait a minute. What? No, you say yes to Steve Martin. And then he gets it in.

Exactly. No, I know. I know the game. But there's something about him that intimidates me. There's a few people that I have on. I don't think it's ever going to happen. Steve, I think, would have a good conversation with, but he was just in this period where he'd written the book about stand-up, and that was the end of it.

Now it was all about banjo. And I got nothing against banjo, but then I got a fight, then I got to have a Steve Martin, who seems a little depressed anyways. We're talking about banjo, and then I go like, when you first got on stage as a stand-up, he's like... Like, I didn't want to deal with that. Usually, what happens with older artists, I found, like, let's take Roger Waters, for example, from Pink Floyd.

Yeah. Some of these guys, they're out promoting a record, which is sometimes the only way I can get them. And he gets in there, he's like, well, I want to talk about Pink Floyd. And I'm like, God, Christ. All right. So this happens all the time on my show. Yeah.

I don't want to talk about the only thing I'm known for. Right. Right. The only thing. And you've only got like 11 minutes. Yeah. And so it's like Eli Whitney invented the cotton chip. No cotton.

And then he comes on, and just before, just one thing, let's just not talk about the cotton chip. That's all anybody knows about you, Eli. No, no, no, no, no. I'm working on something new. It's a shoe. No one cares. Yeah.

No one cares about your shoe, Eli. Is it a cotton shoe? No. I've had so many times. Yeah. And it's the publicist. Right. People have publicists.

I know. The publicist always says... The first line of defense. The publicist always says, you know that thing that's really funny that my client was going to say that it's hilarious, and it's going to totally kill, and it's going to go viral. We're killing that because we're going in a different direction. Yeah.

They're going to talk about linoleum. Exactly. Well, no. What Roger, what ultimately happens is you realize that they do want to talk about it because they've been talking about it their whole life. And for some reason, they just think that the new thing they're doing is the best thing they've ever done because they have to. And you know, you just work it around.

And like within seconds, you know, Roger Waters was throwing David Gilmore under the bus. And I'm like, I didn't even ask for this. Right. Did you find him to be a little bit of a sour ball? He's an angry guy. Yes. That's the same thing?

Yes. I interviewed him once, and he was incredibly sour. Intense. Serious. And then... Daddy stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

He's sour. He was no fun to talk to. I'll throw him out of the bus. I don't care. I'm not going to run into him again. You will. And so I... Yeah, but I won't recognize him.

Yeah. That's one of the problems. Could you recognize any of Pink Floyd? Almost every band that you've liked your entire life, you would recognize. But like him... Yeah, I don't... You wouldn't recognize David Gilmore on the street, would you? No, I wouldn't.

I might recognize Gilmore. I don't even know what the drummer's name is. And they're a huge band. Isn't that weird? It's weird that we don't know their faces. Yeah. But I want to throw Roger Waters under the bus because he was a sour ball, and then we go to commercial.

And you know in commercial, that's usually when most guests... There's a friendliest change or two of a line, at least enough. You always say to lean over and go like, that was pretty good, right? That was okay. But you always do. Because I was... I was wondering if you were listening. Dude, was that okay?

Was that good? What did you think? Was that okay? And I was always like, okay, I got to take care of Mark here. Yeah, exactly. But... But... So we throw to commercial.

But that band's playing, and Roger Waters turns to me and he goes, that's it? And I said, yeah, that was the end of the interview when he went, then this is me leaving. And he stood up and walked out. Oh, so I see why you have a problem. And I was like, what is that? What is that? And that's a guy that got tricked into doing your show, didn't really want to do it to begin with.

I think he thought he was doing Ellen. Yeah. A lot of people, I can look like Ellen from a distance. But I find that with these guys, those guys, those older dudes, especially musicians. But some of them except it, like Neil Young, I didn't know was a difficult interview. No one told me I should have done some homework, right? So now I got to pull teeth and thank God he tried to figure out mathematically how many nicotine lozenges I do and he got a real kick out of the equation and we were kind of rolling

from there. It turned out to be a good interview. That's the key to podcasting. Don't plan the conversation. Don't plan the conversation and nicotine lozenges. I was off him for a while and back on him, we don't need to talk about it. Oh, when someone says, don't talk about it, I say, let's talk about it. Oh, well, yeah, it's just a cycle with me.

I got off him. I haven't smoked a cigarette in like over a decade, it's been a long time. I was on the nicotine lozenges for a long time because I enjoy them. And then I found myself dipping and just getting any nicotine any way I could and then I'm like, this has got to stop. And I stopped everything for a few months and I thought, well, maybe I'll have a cigar. That would be nice. And then within weeks, I'm smoking two a day, I can't breathe.

And then I got to get off the cigars and then we're back on the lozenges and it all starts again, Conan. Good God. It's the joy. It's the joy of compulsive, addictive behavior. Just end it now. No, no, no, no. Just end it now.

It's just time to get off it. Just end it now. And what? The addiction or all of it? The whole thing. Oh, no. It's just time. You do it, I'll do it.

It's time to shuffle off that more quote. You do it, I'll do it. You suffered enough. What was I going to tell you, man? I was going to tell you some other things. I'm going to help you take your life. That's what I'm going to do. I'm on it.

I'm doing it. I've been exercising a lot. I went to the doctor. Everything's pretty good. Wait. So you went to the doctor. I know that you were very phobic about your health. Not bad.

Not bad. Not as bad as it used to be. Well, wait a minute. You had a big prostate scare. You told me that. I did? Yeah. I thought I had it.

That's the fear about life. What made you feel that you had a prostate scare? Just too much time on my hands. But was there any symptom? What have I got to think about? I'm probably dying of something. I'm at that age. Maybe I should go to the doctor and get one of those exams.

Now, wake me up. You voluntarily went and had a guy put his hand up your ass. Not the whole hand. Where do you go? Oh, I have a guy that does two hands if you tip him. Oh, wow. That's a hell of a doctor. Yeah, he gets all kinds of stuff in there.

I pay him top quality. Is he sure it's a doctor? You know what? It's funny. He's not dressed like a doctor. You want me to check his diploma? It's really weird. Take a look at that diploma.

There's no diploma. Yeah. You got me thinking that. You know what we have to do? What? Take a break. We have to take an ad break. Is that how you're going to do it?

We're going to take an ad break. You can do your own reads or you're going to drop ads in. I do my own ads. Yeah. But you can do them later? You can do it now. I'm not going to do it now. I don't want you looking at me while I do an ad break because the only way I can do

it and really feel good is I'm naked. I get it. But that's the difference between radio and podcasting is like when you do a radio show you got to sit there and watch them do the thing. Hey, how's everybody? Want a Vermont teddy bear? You like teddy bears? Vermont teddy bear is a big advertiser back in the day.

Oh, is that true? Yeah. Vermont teddy bears. Alex Bennett used to do it when I was doing that show in San Francisco. I did radio for a while. You know, I tried to take an ad break and it's impossible with you. You tried to take an ad break. No, no, no.

You tried to take an ad break but you've had 45 nicotine lozenges. Let's throw to the ad break. You're going to throw to the ad break. You think you can do it? You think you can stop for a second? Hey, what is, what is, what would you like your audience to buy, Conan? Oh my God. I can't wait to tell you.

But it seems like you've got more to say about something. Oh, I have a lot more to say. Boom. Ad break right there. I've got it. You know what? Yeah. I just set you up.

I did it. And I screwed it up. Yeah, I was trying to help out. See, he can't be the last, he can't let me be the last one to talk. They can just cut it. There's guys over there. No, no. Half of this is going to go away.

No, no, no. What? I'm keeping all of this. Well, just give us the ad copy. Let's read it now. Let's go. They don't have it. What?

Yeah. It's an advertiser that's on the fence until we got Marin. It's true. Okay. You know what it is? What? It's a company that sells nicotine lozenges. Oh, good.

Can I? They wanted you. They send you swag? Yeah, they did. And now it's time for a segment called Conan O'Brien Pays Off the Mortgage on His Beach House. Yep. I'm an adult.

Took out a big mortgage. Made some sketchy financial choices, but I'm a big boy and I'm going to pay the piper and I'm going to pay them bills down. Yeah, pay them bills. Pay them bills. Bang. We're back. Wow.

That was quick. Yeah. Great job on that ad read. Didn't I do a good job? Excellent. I put my own personality into it. It was great. I wish I could remember what I wanted to bring up earlier.

It doesn't matter. Let's get back to it. No, it does as I get older. You? I forget a lot of things. I walk into rooms a lot now and I don't know why I came into the room. Then my wife comes in the room and I'm like, who are you? It's just, it's scary.

It's frightening. Yeah, that's a little scary. Might want to go back to that doctor. Oh my God, I love that doctor. He put an alarm clock up there once. Is that how you wake up? Yeah. I walked around with it for four weeks.

It was a fantastic experience. I wonder why and maybe you can answer this because this is part of the point of my podcast. We've known each other 25 years. I like you. I have a lot of respect for you. You always make me laugh, but we're not friends. We're not friends. No, I've talked about that in particular with you.

Yeah. We don't hang. We don't hang. Do you hang with anybody? I mean, you get to a certain age, you've got kids, you've got a wife, you've got a house, you've got other things to worry about, you probably need time just to kind of freak out about shit. Yeah.

Yeah. But you've got to really make time for people. But I remember when you did my show, it was near the beginning and I appreciate you doing it. And I had done your show many times. You've always been good to me. I've always been loyal to the show and we had that dynamic. And then you come over and you do the podcast and afterwards, because I wrote about this,

I think, or I talked about on the show, you kind of hung out for a little while. And after a certain point, I'm like, oh, he's got to get out of the house. Yes. Yeah, okay. Like, I don't, we don't do this. I picked up on that. I picked up on that because I did your podcast, I enjoy your company, I'm in your home. I am in your home and you started to get anxious and then you started trying to get me to the

door. And I was offended. You were? I was offended. Yes. Because I thought, why not sit down? Did you really? And offer me a piece of pumpkin pie.

I would have. If I had pie. You're not a guy that has pumpkin pie around. I used to have cream, I used to have ice cream back then. I might have had pie. I've had to feed people before. I've had to feed people. It's supposed to be something that you do with love and generosity.

No, I do. It's not a chore. Well, people come over, they don't eat properly. John Glaser came over once and he was starving. I made him a sandwich. Roseanne came over once and she needed something. I gave her cantaloupe. People hated it because she was eating cantaloupe on the, on the mic.

That's a disgusting sound when someone eats cantaloupe. Roseanne talking or? You know what? That was very good. That was very good. I'll give you points for that. I'll tell you, why did you want me out of the house? I'm a good guy.

I clean up nice. Oh, no, no. It was nothing like, I didn't want you out of the house. I just didn't know what, you know, I'd never been in that situation with you. Like every time, like here's what my experience at you. I come, I go to the dressing room, Jimmy gives me a guitar, I play, you come in, say hi, what's going on. I'll see you out there.

I go out there. We say thanks. And yeah, over the years it's gotten warmer and then, and then I go away. So there we just talked for an hour about your life and your childhood and then you're in my house and I'm like, I've never had much taller here than he is on the set. And we were just talking and it was awkward and I thought like, okay. You ushered me out. You ushered me out.

No, but then we actually acknowledge it. It's like, it's weird that we don't hang out. I don't know why we don't hang out. You want to hang out? I got a lot of people on my phone that have been on the show, that have been on the show, but do I call them? No, the only guy. This is why I want to talk to you is that for 25 years, I've been talking to three guests

tonight. Yeah. They're there to promote whatever they're promoting. And we look friendly on the air, but then I don't hang out with them afterwards. Plus, I had a party not long ago and I looked around and everyone at the party is someone on my payroll. The only people that came to my party are people I pay. Did you invite other people?

I didn't get an invitation. See, maybe this is the problem. No, I didn't invite you. You didn't. Well, because here's my theory. My theory is that we aren't peanut butter and jelly. We're peanut butter and then a more acidic peanut butter. We're like, like Skippy with sugar and then just the chunky rock kind.

Yes. Yeah. And you put both of those together and there isn't even bread. There isn't even bread. You're just eating it with your hands and it's a freak show. And your mouth is clicking. Yeah. You have no water.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's true. I think we have a certain similar energy. Yeah. I think. You have a lot more in your head than me.

I think. Do you think so? I think naturally your brain, like mine is completely, everything that's going on in my head, you know, I'm the center of, I think that you sometimes can kind of look at other things and improvise on that. With me, I have to be like, how does that affect me? And then I have to go through that way. So I think you have a more active imagination that's probably a little more palatable.

I just looked that up online. That's called narcissism. Yeah. Well, I fight that. You're losing. No, I'm not. You're losing that. I'm not a narcissist.

My father was. No. Wait. So you think you are not a narcissist. I think anytime you want to talk about anything, you have to relate it to yourself and how you're the center of the universe. Yeah. But I'm aware of that.

So that makes me not a narcissist. So what? A serial killer can know. I'm a narcissist. I'm a narcissist. Yeah. You can know a serial killer can know he's a serial killer, but if he continues to kill in the Pacific Northwest, he's still a serial killer.

Yeah. But like he likes that. I don't particularly like this part of myself. Okay. You don't like it? No, because like, you know, my dad, I think is really actually a pathological narcissist. I think everyone's a little self-centered and a little narcissistic. So I have shrapnel from that upbringing and behaviors from it, but it's not, I don't have

a blind spot. You know, I'm not, you know, I have shame. I have guilt. I have a conscience. You have an awareness. I'm capable of empathy. So all that stuff. The self-centeredness element is that I tend to think about myself a lot because I'm neurotic,

right? So when I think about things outside of me, it has to do with its effect on me. And I think it's helped my comedy, to be honest with you, because there was a point, you know this to be true. When you're doing jokes and they're written and they're topical, you know that the other talk shows are going to do similar theme jokes. So that's the same with stand-up. So once I was able to untether myself from observational or political comedy and just

focus on me, no one's going to steal. I defy someone to do my material because it's all about me. And if you're that much like me, then I'll talk to you after the show. I have to say, this is totally making sense to me because it's the thing I like the least about doing a show right now is when there's this pressure to be topical and talk about Trump because everybody's doing it. So I find much more joy in comedy that has nothing to do with what's going on. Talk about your own experience, right?

So that's what I started to do on a very conscious level. And maybe I took to it pretty well and I can integrate a lot of cultural criticism or whatever and talk about current events, but I have to do it from my point of view and not from jokes. So it was a great, it was good for me to realize that. Yes. Can I be really honest with you? The other reason I don't think we hang out is that over the years, you introduced me,

oh, this is the woman I'm with, you know? And I sort of start to try and form a bond with her and then she's gone. Oh. Has that happened over the years? Pretty clever transition. Well. I saw what he did there. No, but hasn't it?

There was a period of time where you were like. You've met a few of my, maybe two of the wives and most of the girlfriends I think have come. I've met them all. I've met them all. And you know what? I'm afraid to form a bond with them because I don't know what's going to happen. Yeah, but you bet. What about me?

What about the bond with me? Let's see. We still got it. You know, I think you've dealt with friends who have had women, I happen to know. You definitely know people who've had a few women come and go. Yes, I have. But yeah, believe me, I had as hard of a time maintaining the bond with those women that you did, but you were much quicker in making a judgment.

I think I formed a deeper bond with those women in the 40 seconds we talked and you managed. Yeah. Well, whatever you found out in 40 seconds sometimes took me years and a lot of money to figure out. Yeah. Yeah. It's a liability, you know, the relationship thing.

Anytime you're with someone, and this is maybe could be the foundation of a new friendship, anytime you start to date someone, have me meet them. Have me meet them alone. Like the third date. Look, I just have, Conan's going to meet us at the restaurant. No, first date. First date. First date.

You say, before I can see you, you have to meet Conan O'Brien's. Oh man, if I was single, this could be a segment, dude. It could have been a segment. Well, could be again. You never know. Oh, thank you for the vote of confidence. Sorry, I've just been through this too many times with you, you know. But no, I've been with the one now for like four years.

It's great. That's been going pretty good. I'm very happy for you. But that's not, like it's a good sign, but the two wives, those were about eight, eight and a half years. Right. And then there was a few... That's about as long as a marriage should last, I believe.

Then there was the one before this one, the three-year one. That was probably what, that would, she would have made me not want to be someone's friend. Really? Yeah. I don't know what happened to her. But you know, I'm sure she... Wait, were both wives eight years, did you say? About, yeah, three and a half married, and then I was with them for a few years before,

yeah. Yeah. That's interesting because I'm married and eight years into my marriage, my wife looked at me and said, I think I'm good. Yeah. I'm out. I think I'm good. Oh.

But we're still together, you know? You're still together now. Yeah. So how'd you get past that hump? Well, she just realized I'm a good earner. Yeah. Did you get to everything you wanted to on your notes? I, you know, you keep saying I have notes and I really don't.

These are recipes. Oh, can I have one? These are so popular. I'm looking for some new recipes for Thanksgiving. Yeah. I'm gonna... You know what? You would be awful on Thanksgiving.

I'm great. You'd be terrible. I cook for 22 people. Do you even know them? Yeah, their family. And I didn't do it for a couple of years because I was shooting Glow and also I didn't want to deal with the Republican contingent. But I'm going back for the first time in like three years this year and we've brought the

number down. But I'm the guy who cooks the entire thing. That's so crazy because you don't have, you have the opposite of a holiday energy. Here's how I get into the holiday spirit. I make this amazing spread and then I walk around and this will ring true with you. I walk around because you know me this way. I walk around and go like, how was it this year? Pretty good.

How was the stuffing? Right. It was the best. Yeah. How did I do? Exactly. Did I do okay at Thanksgiving? Not that I did.

What did you think of me doing my Thanksgiving? Right. How did it go over? I don't have to say it anymore though because I've gotten some confidence. I'm not as insecure as I used to be. So I don't fish for it. I wait for it. You understand?

You don't get it. And I know when you're waiting for it, your legs jiggling, you're popping, you know, you're popping mentholated lozenges. Cinnamon ones or cinnamon? Walgreens. Yeah. Four milligrams. Did you ever smoke a lozenge just out of desperation?

Oh, sure man. I got a crack pipe. You ever light up a lozenge and just suck on it? No, I snorted them. I snorted the lozenge. Jesus, we should do that sometime in an hour. Snorted a lozenge? I'd do that with you.

It's the saddest thing. I remember years ago, this is a story that I've never told. Man, maybe I've told it once. Years ago, back in the day, Conan, this might not make the cut. We have a very low bar. Well, when I was with Matt, I was back when I was still using drugs, and we had been drinking all night, me and this guy Matt, and we were back at the house where I lived with a bunch of other dudes, and we'd run out of drugs, and we had run out of liquor, and we were

chopping up, we were grinding up, you remember Viverin, what's it called, Viverin, the yellow pills, which at best is equal to two cups of coffee, and we were snorting Viverin. So we had yellowness, caked in our nostrils, and it was like two in the morning, and Bob comes home from work after being a waiter, and he walks into the kitchen and he's like, are you snorting Viverin? But you're snorting Viverin, and he just shakes his head and goes to bed. It was one of those moments where it was like, oh yeah, this is stupid. This is a new, this is a new low.

We just apparently wanted to snort something, it didn't matter what. So I'm glad you mentioned Viverin because the good folks at Viverin have an amazing product. A Viverin Lawson. They bought in to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, and that was perfect the way you segueed into it. I love talking to you, I really do, and I'm very honored that you would stop by my podcast, as I said, you were the master of this form, and I basically got you here to ask you one

simple question, which is, will I make money on this? I think you will. I'm going to start out with a pretty good crowd, and like, you know, it's over there, your guy. Yeah, that. But you think I'm going to make some cash here? I do. I do.

I don't know if it's cash you're used to, but I think that you'll see what the numbers are, and then you sell the numbers. Because I need. You can't need money. I fucked some stuff up. What? You did? I fucked some stuff up.

You're one of those guys? You overextended? Where's the second house? It was a few problems. Boat, you got a boat? There was a boat. There was a boat? There was.

There was. They'll say that. I got excited about two years ago about theme restaurants, and I went into, I went in big on theme restaurants. I did not consult anybody. I did not consult my wife. I did not consult my business manager and lost it all. I'm sorry.

There was a theme restaurant in the valley, a whole chain of them. It was a new idea, and the whole idea was, you know, some of them were like 1950s themes. This was a depression era themed restaurant. Did you have to go wearing a barrel? Did the wait staff wear a barrel? That was one of the ideas. We rejected that because we thought it was impractical, but it was a lot of just depression era themed music was playing, and we mostly just served apples.

And it tanked. No good, huh? And I went in. I didn't know you're not supposed to put your own money in it, you're supposed to get other people. Oh, yeah. So I'm here. I'm sorry.

No, I think you'll do okay. You know what would happen if I said to you, I think you'll do okay? You'd spiral. But wait a minute. You would spiral, wouldn't you? If, hey, hey, next time you're on the show, if I went back behind backstage in the green room, and you went, I was a crowd, and I went, I think you'll do okay. You would just turn into a puddle, a Mark Maron puddle.

I think you're going to do great. I feel like that you're engaged. That stuff doesn't count now. I think I'll do okay. I'm honored to have you. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. That was fun.

You covered everything? You didn't dig a hole. No, I didn't. I just, you know, as again, these are just Paula Deen recipes. I'm trying to figure out if I ever have any questions for you. You can ask me a question. Why don't you ask me a question? You're the podcast guy.

That's not necessary. It's not necessary. Wow. What a good work ethic. Yeah. I think it was. Is that how you approach everything in your life? Huh?

That's not necessary. I have a question. I should flush that toilet. No, that's not necessary. I have a question, but it's sort of serious, and I don't think there's an answer to it. And I think that, you know, I've processed it and it's a little heavy. There is a God. There is a heavy.

It's a little heavy. It's a little personal and it's a little heavy. You want me to ask it? Yeah. Okay. So when you hosted the Tonight Show, why didn't you have me on? Why didn't I have you on the Tonight Show? Because it only lasted for 45 minutes.

Okay. I didn't get to you. Okay. There's just so many people that weren't on that Tonight Show because, I mean- It was a bad time. I understand. I understand. There are an apple will rot faster.

Well, I think like what it was like for me at that time, you know, it's probably not great. You realize we didn't get, there was not a lot of time that we were on the air. Right. And you took, this is amazing, you took my losing the Tonight Show and made it about a year. Wait, that's how you- That's, that, no.

That is not an interpretation. No, it is. That is what you did. I was excited you got the show. I was always on the other show. I was like, this is going to be great. I've waited. I didn't do the Tonight Show with anybody else and I'm going to do it with my pal Conan

and I should be on the first week. No. See, no. Why? Well, because we had Pearl Jam, Will Ferrell, we had, I mean, I'm sorry, I'm sorry you weren't on the first week and I think in my head, I was thinking, can't wait to have Mark on because you know what they say about Tonight Show hosts? Once you name a Tonight Show host, he lasts as long as he wants and then you know what

happened? What? That didn't happen. Okay. All right. And so I never got to you. Okay. Because there wasn't enough time and I apologize.

Thank you. Thank you. And I wish now, if I could get in a time machine, that you were my first guest on that Tonight Show. Thank you. I didn't mean it. I know. You do okay here.

I feel terrible. No, you feel solid. We're friends now. I didn't want to bring it up, but I just, I just like, I don't know, I wanted some closure or something. I forgot that I had the resentment until this morning. You present that I didn't have you on the show. It's over now.

It was on for, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry about that. Yeah. Yeah, you seem all choked up about it. No.

No, this is better. You know, if I had my choice between a Tonight Show or a podcast, this is clearly the one I'd take. This is clearly the way I'd go. This is the hardest I've seen you laugh actually in a while. Well, I'm honored to be one of the first guests on the podcast. Well, if this is, if this is anything like, hey, you know what, this may be one of four episodes.

I got in under the wire. You know what's going to happen in six weeks? What? Jay Leno's going to get this podcast. It's going to do it from, it's going to do it from a fire engine or a car. Well, this is an interesting format. Yeah. So how does it work?

I just talking. So how do they see me? Oh, they don't see me? Oh, that's interesting. Oh, now they're going to see the car. I got a Dutzenberg. That's a Dutzenberg. They have nine cylinders.

No one knows why. Doesn't it? It runs on Piedmont. This is good. We're sweating it out. We're sweating out the toxins. All right. I don't say this often, but I love you.

You're a great man. Thank you. And I thank you so much. I really am honored. Thank you very much. Really am honored. Thank you so much. Me too.

Leave that last part in. And now it's time for another installment of Conan O'Brien pays off the mortgage on his beach house. Okay. It's time for a new segment called ways in which Conan is like Freddie Mercury. Now I'm bringing this up because Sony is absolute hero in show business is Freddie Mercury. Yes. And I'm hard.

And I'm guessing I'm number two. And so what are the ways in which I'm like Freddie Mercury? Not at all. Not even in a little bit. What are you talking about? I'm a great. Not even in the slightest. I'm a great showman.

Well, I mean, the way you're a great showman and the way Freddie Mercury was a great showman are very different. What's the difference? He was the best front man of a band ever and you dance like a clown in front of an audience. Oh my God. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, you are great at what you do, but you can't compare yourself to Freddie Mercury.

I saw the movie about Freddie Mercury, the biopic Bohemian Rhapsody. Okay. I saw Bohemian Rhapsody and I watched it and what I thought when I was watching it was they're telling my story. Oh boy. That's what I felt. How do you think you are like Freddie Mercury? He was born with extra teeth and that gave him this incredible, which felt like a disadvantage,

but then it also gave him this incredible multi-octave range. Okay. I was born with a certain body and certain fidgety mannerisms and strange hair and a weird first name that all were disadvantages when I was a child, but then made me the greatest front man in the history of rock and roll. You almost had me until the very end and I think, you know what? Here's what I'm going to say. I think you would be just as funny in a different body because it's your brain that makes you

funny, but it's hard to argue that it's not his teeth that gave him the range that he has. I think that my career has gone through many of the ups and downs that Freddie Mercury's did. I think that I was the voice of a generation in worldwide in the 70s and into the 80s. You think you were a voice of a generation in the 70s? You were like in your teens. I didn't say anyone was listening.

You were just talking to yourself? Yeah. I have my version of, I think when I go to Comic-Con and do shows there, it's like Wembley. Oh, okay. And I think it means as much to a worldwide audience. Do you think you make comparisons? You compare yourself to people like, I don't know, I mean, just going off memory, people like Jesus and William Shakespeare and the Beatles.

Biodysmilarities. Oh, you think, okay. Yeah. All right. Well, I feel like I'm talking. My father could have been a carpenter. I have apostles, meaning writers. You look at your writers as apostles?

Yeah. My best is my sermon. Okay. A lot of similarities. Do you think you're a little ill? Yeah. Ill the way Picasso was ill. Oh, God.

Ill the way Mozart was ill. Oh, God. So you're saying I'm sort of like Freddie Mercury, just not completely like Freddie Mercury? No, I said you're nothing like Freddie Mercury. I can sing like him. Do you have parties that are just full of debauchery? Where are you like, here's my wine?

Well, if it's an appropriate amount of wine, you don't want to have more than a glass. Maybe two glasses at most because then there's the sugar and also it's dehydrates. So make sure that you drink three glasses of water for every glass of wine. I'm sure that's something Freddie Mercury did and I'm sure he watched his glass for all the way I do. And I'm sure he was really good friends with his college roommate and they talked about theater Roosevelt a lot. These are things, ways in which Freddie Mercury and I are very similar.

Oh, boy. Anyway, I get it. Two best showmen that you've known in your life, Freddie Mercury, Conan O'Brien, who's to say who is actually the better showman? Freddie Mercury. Well, you can think about it more. Freddie Mercury. Give it a little more.

Freddie Mercury. Thought. Freddie Mercury. So we'll get your final decision. Final decision. Freddie Mercury. Okay. Freddie Mercury.

Hmm. Freddie Mercury. Well, she's mulling it over. Freddie Mercury. Freddie Mercury. A wait for decision. Freddie Mercury. Patiently.

Freddie Mercury. Freddie Mercury. Becoming Sam. Freddie Mercury. So it's a tie. You've got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode.

And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco Production in association with Earwarp.