Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Michael Keaton

Episode Date: August 16, 2021

Actor Michael Keaton feels so happy about being here and being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Michael sits down with Conan to talk about childhood acting games, portraying the original big-screen Batman, and looking back on his storied career with a different perspective. Plus, Matt Gourley makes a surprise announcement that catches Conan totally off-guard. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone].For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is Michael Keaton, Douglas, because my real name is Douglas. Is that true? Yes. And I feel so happy about being here and being Conor NoBrien's friend. The first part I feel a little stronger about, but I feel okay about the second part. Wait, the second part being being my friend and the first part being you're happy that you're Michael Keaton. I think anybody would be thrilled to be Michael Keaton.

And then the part about being Conor Brian's friend, it doesn't compare to being Michael Keaton. No. No. What does? Hey there, and welcome to Conor NoBrien Needs a Friend. I think we have a fantastic episode today. I really do.

I agree. I mean, I'm serious. I'm very jazzed about this episode and the guest we have on today. So I don't want to take too much time with my voice up front. I know usually we kill some time here, and sometimes if I loathe the guest, I really go on and on. Have you ever noticed that, Matt? Oh yeah.

Remember we had Joe the Plumber on and you just went for 50 minutes. Yeah. And I just read off the periodic table of elements and the time we had the My Pillow Guy on and I didn't want to talk to him and I thought it was a bad booking because he's clearly insane. I do remember that. But do you also remember how surprising it was that the My Pillow Guy was a great guest? He was fantastic.

And politically in line. And then he told the best stories about his times at sea. I didn't know he built his own boats and took them out into the North Atlantic and then that fight he had with the sea serpent. What a fantastic guest. So that was on me. I regret. And no free pillows.

Can you believe that shit? They're filled with asbestos. I suspect it, to be honest. Yeah. I guess when they tear down an old mill and they have to get rid of the asbestos, he stuffs it into pillows. Now listen, I don't know if that's actionable. The previous comment was meant as parody only and not to be taken seriously.

The views of Conan O'Brien do not reflect Matt Gorley, Sonam of Sessian, Adam Saxon. Matt Gorley is a huge fan of My Pillow and a known trumpet. Look, that's on you. The only guy I know has a tweed manka cap. Hello. That. You finally got me because that's how I actually dress. How are you, Matt?

I'm pretty good. Not too bad. How are you? I'm good. You know, it's a different dynamic when Son is not here. Yeah. You have, of course, raising these twins. She sent me a picture of both of them wearing suspenders.

What? And pants. Wait, long to their diapers? Oh, their pants. They're weeks old and they're wearing tiny little trousers with suspenders and they have comovers and they look like they're sitting at an old folks home. And they're pissed about this new rock and roll music. And I was howling and I was texting back and forth with her.

I try not to call Sonam because I'm always afraid that, I mean, she has twins. So what's, maybe one of them just got to sleep or the other one just got to sleep or they both just got to sleep and then the phone rings and it's me saying, where's my coffee? She's busy taking care of all those grandparents that are taking care of those two kids. I know. I didn't know that in their culture, you can have 60 grandchildren. That's something that can only happen if you're Armenian, but she has 60 Armenian grandparents and she has not held the child, either of the children herself yet.

Yeah. Her family multiplies the opposite way. They're like tribbles. They're like tribbles. Remember that episode where Kirk opens up a storage bin and 65 grand. 65 Armenian grandparents come falling out. The trouble with Armenian grandparents. But anyway, but yeah, by this point, if she was on the podcast, she would have probably

rolled her eyes. Sona rolls her eyes so forcefully, you can hear it on a podcast. Yeah. You can hear. I have to edit it out. You can actually hear the ocular jelly moving rapidly in its orbits. Did you know that I had access to the phrase ocular jelly? I don't think any human has unlocked that phrase before, so that's really impressive.

Ocular jelly. He was struck so hard in the back of the head. The ocular jelly evacuated its space. Here's another word that I'm fascinated with, another phrase. Yeah. Dynamic ad insertion. Oh, you're learning about podcasting. Yeah.

I don't know anything about podcasting. And then the other day, and I'm very proud of the fact that I really am just a chimp they put in a spacecraft, but I'm inside going, just, and you are furiously, you're an expert at these things, Gurley, so you and your team are expertly keeping us in orbit. I think it was Adam Sacks was talking, and he said, well, yes, and of course, now that we have dynamic ad insertion, and I said, what? And I guess that's the way that you guys put ads into a podcast.

I don't have anything to do with it. I think it's just as ridiculous as you do. Oh, you don't sell your hands. Oh, no. No, no, no, you're an artist, you're an artist. You don't sell yourself with filthy commerce. Even though behind you, I see 10 more guitars you've purchased and hung on the wall. Oh, me?

I don't like dynamic ad insertion. Now where's my fucking check for the podcast? Adam Sacks is actually available. Adam, and I know you hate being on mic. Do I have to know the term dynamic ad insertion? I think you should. Why? Because it's the lifeblood of this podcast.

But it sullies me. I'm just a nymph flitting through the forest, spreading my angel dust. You want to hang this giant money belt around me? It weighs me to the ground. No, sir. Here's what I've learned. Everything involves an algorithm. Does it involve an algorithm?

Yeah, I don't think this does. It does? It could. It could. Oh, wait. So, Matt, you don't know what it is. I do know what it is, and it doesn't involve. What is it then, Mr. Wise Guy?

It's you pre-program and add to run in a certain spot in the episode for a certain amount of downloads. So, you can put like a Magoo Shad for 250,000 downloads to go. Magoo Sh! Yes, but there could be an algorithm like geo-targeting, for example, if you wanted that Magoo Shad to run for people who live in the Northeast only. Wait a minute. Is this getting into that creepy Facebook area where we know that the person downloading

from this area or from this URL is probably a jogger, so, you know, we're going to run our ad for Joggy's underwear for when you're jogging. Is that the kind of creepy bullshit we're getting into? It's not nearly that sophisticated yet, but I think that's the goal, is that eventually it gets there. Oh, oh, so you're disappointed that we're not able to do that yet? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, I get it. I think the lead that's buried here is this product Joggy's underwear. This sounds like a goldmine to me. Well, I just, it just flew off the top of my head, but as I'm speaking, I am using my computer to file a patent for Joggy's underwear. I can see you on the Zoom. You have a pen and a yellow legal pad. I have no computer, I have a legal pad, and I have a pen, and that's what I have.

But to me, that is a computer. With my imagination, I can do just as much as any computer. Enough dynamic ad insertion, and I hope, I hope that we can keep this podcast pure. I agree. Let's keep it pure. Wait a minute. Adam, you're literally wearing a ball cap that says podcast on it. I had not seen this before.

Oh my God. And the S has a dollar sign on it. Is that a gold tooth? He's got a grill. Oh my God. Adam, when did you get a grill? After the Barack Obama episode. Yeah.

Oh no. Sorry. Oh. Lovely daughters on the Zoom. Oh, there's your daughter. Yes. And now Adam's thinking, oh, she's beautiful, and she just handed Adam a lovely drawing she made, and all Adam can think is, how do we monetize it?

His daughter's actually an algorithm. Yeah. Can you wave? Her name's Algorithma. Hi, Algorithma. How are you? Can you say hi? Yeah.

Can you wave? Adam's trying to figure out a way to dynamically insert her drawing into 700,000 episodes. Yes. We can't waste time. No, we can't. I say that all the time, and I say it when we have even guests like the MyPillow guy, who by the way, we did not have on. Stop looking.

We're reaching out though. Yeah. Oh, we're trying. I'm calling him nonstop. I am delighted that this gentleman is on the show today. My guest has starred in such iconic films as Batman, Beetlejuice, Night Shift, and Birdman, just to name a few. He has two new movies, The Protégé in Theatres Friday, which I saw and I really loved, and

Worth on Netflix September 3rd. He also has a new limited series, Dope Sick, premiering October 13th on Hulu. I really do love this guy. I love his work. Delighted. Absolutely delighted that he's here. I'm thrilled he's with us. Michael Keaton, welcome.

I'm going to say that I've long been a huge admirer of yours and your career arc, which is completely unique. I honestly don't think anyone has done what you've done, what you started in, and all the ways that you've defied expectations over time. Then I have the strange experience of bumping into you every now and then. Every time that's happened, I've been a little like, I mean, I meet a lot of people, but I step outside of myself a little bit and go like, oh, shit, that's Michael Keaton. Oh, cool.

Thanks. Yeah. And then I take a swing at you, which is me. Sure. Sure. An affection kind of. No. I don't know what it is.

It's me reacting to, in some way, I don't want to be the guy who fawns over you. Right. So I go too far the other way. Yeah. Yeah. You overreact. You overreact. Yeah.

I get it. That explains. Start pushing you and shoving you. Yeah. A number of years ago, I was walking down the street in my neighborhood, and this guy who's very fit goes jogging by and stops and says, hi to me, and it's you. You had a baseball cap on. Yeah.

You said, do you live in this neighborhood? And I said, yeah, I live right over there. And you went, specifically, what house? And I said, I'm that house over there near those hedges. And you went, I could get in there. And it was really funny. But kind of creepy, too. No, no, no.

It was purified. It was 95% funny and 5% creepy because I think you did come back. And then, but afterwards, I thought, OK, Michael Keaton, he runs. I'm going to start running. I started running because you run. I'm serious. And when people ask me why I run, I go, I saw Michael Keaton running. He always looks good.

He's always in shape. I got to start running. Wow. That's really good. Yeah. Seriously, good for you. Well, let me tell you something that you don't know because here's the other thing. Yeah, I was coming up the street.

It was COVID time and, hey, by the way, that's catchy, hey, it's COVID time. Yeah. You made it sound really nice. I did. Like a segment on Mr. Rogers. It sounded really friendly. Yeah. Yeah.

Or a good, good morning to you. Hey, it's COVID time. Let's check out the COVID, a lot of COVID on the 405 freeway coming up north. Right. Right. I was on the street and I was either on a bike or on the sidewalk and it was COVID time and I thought I need to be respectful of everyone here and get out of the way. And I see a person walking to me, a tall person, and with another person who was pretty tall,

younger. And I go, well, I'm just going to get to this point and then I'm going to get out of their way and let them come through and be polite and get out in the street and move around. And then this person turned out to be you and I think your son. Yes. I had a mask on and you had masks on, I think, and I go, and I didn't. I thought, this is, this is really one of those weird things. I go, well, was I just the dick because I made them move off and am I going to have to have

the conversation about that? I thought, just keep running and shut the fuck up. Just keep running and don't make this issue. I remember that and I was really offended. You should have said something. I know. And my son said, what was that all about? And I said, that was Michael Keaton.

Because he vibed it. He felt it. Yeah. And he was, he was past tense, a big fan. But he's been affected by in terms of schooling and everything, I'm sure. He probably, his grades dropped off after that. Yeah. And they've opened his school up.

He's allowed to go back. He never went back. And it was all because he got dissed by Michael Keaton in a COVID tense situation. So now you know what it's like to be me. I know what it's very much like to be you. I know exactly what, you know, I will say this and I've gotten to know you a little bit and you've hung out at my house sometimes. And hung around your house, which is different than it is.

No one peers through a hedge like you. You've got those eyes that just haunt me. But seriously, I have to tell you something that I almost didn't. I thought, now, if this doesn't work and if it's not funny, it is uncomfortable. But one day I thought I heard as I was running by, I thought, by the way, just way too much information from people out there. People need to hear, people need to hear exactly what our lives are like. And I thought I heard your voice and I thought, well, if it's him, I know what I want to do,

but what if it's not him or what if he doesn't? And I was going to say something like, hey, hey, hey, hey. I was assuming you'd stop and there'd be uncomfortable silence. And I'd say something like, you know, hey, this is a nice neighborhood. Keep it down. And then keep on going and just never say anything until later and you go, who the fuck? Who tells me?

No, no, no, I would know it was you. You're fairly recognizable, you know, and I would be delighted by it, you know? Well, I didn't do it. You didn't do it. No, I didn't go for the gag. Well, I've always thought that you would have been a really fun kid to hang out with if I was a kid. I bet you were a fun kid.

That is such a compliment. I'm not kidding you because I think like that. I think like you're thinking right now because I hope I was, yeah, because I still am friends with some guys that I was like ultra boys with and even some of my, yeah, guys I grew up with. This back in like rural Pennsylvania. Yeah. Like I grew up outside of Pittsburgh between mill, what are known as mill towns, you know,

like one was a kind of like there were steel mills and, you know, something like that. And then what people would in the old days would call it railroad town. And in between it was pretty rural, you know, we've kind of country kids, but my mom was from this one section of very, you know, very tough part of just outside of Pittsburgh, you know, hardcore Roman Catholic. Wow. I didn't know I was going to talk about this, but I like it. So my dad was kind of a country guy, country boy, and he was Protestant.

And so I grew up in this right there just outside of Pittsburgh and I really, really good memories. And I went to Catholic school, but, you know, back then that was kind of, I talked to my kid Sean about this all the time, that was a big deal that my mom married a Protestant. I think it was bigger on the Catholic side. Oh, that was huge, huge, huge back in the day. Yeah, man. I mean, today it sounds ridiculous.

Anyone listening right now thinks, what are you talking about? Yes. People have bridged so many gaps, but, you know, my grandmother lived with us when we were growing up and in her generation and my mom's generation for a Catholic, there was no choice. No. My mom was going to marry another Catholic, which she did. Right.

And in the day, I mean, I always joke that I'm the one that went wild in my family. You know, I got jungle fever because my wife is Episcopalian, you know, and that I went to the, I went to the crazy side and I really went, you know, and I was ostracized, but that's back in the day was not done until fairly recently. And do you think it was bigger on the, it would have been bigger on the product? Well, I'll say the Protestant side, you know, the Presbyterian side than it was on the Catholic side. Like, I don't know.

I'm pretty sure it was bigger to my mother's father and mother than it was to my dad's mother and father. Yes. But I don't know that. I'm going to guess it would be a bigger deal for Catholics because Catholics really hardcore go down with the idea of hell, damnation, forever writhing in a lava of flames. So if you transgress, it's going to be worse for the Catholic. You know, the Protestant is going to be, he's going to die and probably go to heaven and

maybe get one less gin and tonic. No, no, we can't. That's the big punishment. Perfect choice of a drink. Yeah. So you grow up, so you grow up and you're a kid, I mean, because you have, you've always had in all your performances, you have so much energy and you have so much light in your eyes and even like when I see you on the street or talking to you now, you've got this light

in your eyes that I think has always sort of defined you and this seemingly, this seeming sense of fun. I got to think Michael Keaton is a kid with his friends. What are you doing? Are you out playing? Yeah. What we're doing is I'm up in the morning, I'm the youngest of seven. And so there was a period where it was just me out playing out in the yard or just take

off and the independence was unbelievable, an unbelievable gift to me. But there were also some local kids that I would play and just mostly out in the woods or inventing things. It's kind of frightening if I started to think about, not frightening, but when I think about, well, I'll tell you, and this is true, and you might say, wow, he needs serious help. I distinctly remember being with this one kid who couldn't play as hard as I could. He couldn't go the distance of imagination, of putting in the hours all day. I wouldn't even go home for lunch.

Sometimes my parents wouldn't worry about me. I'd show up at some point because they were, by the time I came around, they went, you know, whatever. Yeah. When you have six, seven kids, that's what was the thing in my family too is they were, I think they said, okay, we've got volume here, and if the middle one, Conan wanders off and doesn't come back, we've got a lot of backup. We wouldn't even go looking for it.

Plus there's the understood thing of one of your brothers and sisters will cover for you or look out for you to some degree and look out for you, by the way, as in air quotes, because that's a relative thing. But I would do that, and one day I said to him, hey, help this one kid I'd play with. We're always quit early, and I wanted to go, man. I either had like little six shooters or army guns or something I was playing. And I go, wait, wait, don't go yet. I made him.

I said, stay here. We're going to act out what is now called a trailer, but in the old days it was called a previews to what we're going to do tomorrow. So you said to this kid, you're like 10, 12 years old. Not even. Not even. Okay, you're younger than that. You're like eight.

And you said, wait a minute, before you go, we've got to figure out what the highlights are for tomorrow's episode. Like stay tuned. How nuts is that? How crazy. Well, I can kind of relate because I distinctly remember not doing that, but I remembered playing with other kids. And again, we had a neighbor who you could run around and play and your parents didn't

have to know exactly where you were. And I remembered when the day was over and I was walking home, imagining credits coming down. And I honestly did. I'm not kidding. I imagined credits coming down and I'm thinking, well, who's in these fucking credits? Like, there is no Gaffer. There is no grip.

No. There is no wardrobe by Botany 500. There's no, I mean, like there's none of that. Botany 500. Remember that? It was so perfect. On the end of shows, it used to say, Sick Van Dyke's Wardrobe by Botany 500. And I'd always think, I've got to get a suit from Botany 500.

That's such a great observation because you're right. That's right. That was considered, wow, Botany 500. That's sophisticated and cool. And I never, you don't know what that was, but I just knew that. But at the end of shows, there used to be very few credits and they used to be written by this is the person who played the neighbor. And then it would say Wardrobe for Mr. Van Dyke or Wardrobe for whatever show you're

watching and it would say, you know, and I remember Botany 500 always coming up and thinking, I actually put it into a Simpsons episode once. That's funny. I showed the end of a, I wrote a Simpsons script and at the end it, there's a little thing where Bart's, it says, and it says Wardrobe, I think by Botany 500. And I remembered one of the writers at the Simpsons who was, who's my boss at the time who I'm like, yeah, Botany 500. Yeah.

Totally. But that's, and honestly, then we relate because I actually think that's cool for a little kid image credits coming down because that means your head is working on, like, didn't you always kind of feel like, yeah, I'm, I am part of my pals or my group, but I'm not really like you, and I, I hate to blow up that kind of why I wasn't outside or, or I never felt like, but there, to some degree, I'll bet you felt like, I'm not quite in sync with everything quite. Oh, and guess what?

Oh. Coffee's here. How about that? Come on in and you're going to hear this. This is happening right now in the studio. Yeah. A coffee is being bought in for Michael Keaton. He can't get in because he's locked up.

No, no, no, no. No, I'm not going to open the door. You have to try and, David, you have to figure out a way to get into the door with Mr. Michael Keaton's coffee and you have 30 seconds. I love that you were. We should have made you have to bang your way in. Just keep going. Yeah.

What if you heard glass breaking? Yeah. But it was unrelated. He was just robbing jewels next door. Let's give him a lot. Yes. You just got a coffee. You got here and you needed some caffeine.

So David Hopping, my temporary assistant, went running out and brought you back this Starbucks coffee and they filled it up. As far as? I mean, if I had a photo, if I had a camera, I'd take a photo of it. It is completely right up to the rim. Yeah. Well, let me put it this way. My hands are bandaged.

He does have third degree chemical burns from your coffee. Seriously. You're not going to be able to drink that without spilling. Do you think the thinking is, let's just give him a lot. Let's just give this guy as much. Like the mentality of a lot of foods and a lot of food and restaurants. I have a brother who loves that idea. He loves the concept of, look how much I get.

All you can eat. Let's just fill that plate. I mean, it's what they do at Cheesecake Factory. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. We did some of that. How did I do?

You did pretty well. That is the fullest cup of coffee I've ever seen and it's terrifying to watch you try to drink it without being burnt. How would this have gone down in your, in the O'Brien family across too, if your mom had heard this? Oh my God. My mother was, she was Margaret Dumont from the Marks Brothers movies. The reason I'm in comedy is my mother, there was six kids and our grandmother and my dad

and dogs and parrots and she was always saying, now listen here, now see here. And that would always make me want to act like either Groucho Marks or Harpo or one of the three Stooges. Me. Oh my God. Is that your phone? Yeah. This is really important.

That's hilarious. Hold on. It's Biden. Just a minute. Joe. You can't pretend to talk into the phone while it's still ringing. Well, yes, Mr. President. So Biden's playing.

Congratulations. Playing the acoustic guitar. Yeah. Is that a, is that a Gibson? Hey. All right. Congratulations on the infrastructure. I think we talked about this one.

When that would happen, Margaret Dumont or whomever, like my friends would come in and do impressions like do the thing, there were certain comedies where I was locked in, man. I just thought we're so good. And I thought, how come I'm not laughing at those things? And one of them was the three Stooges. I didn't get it. But when they, I never laugh, but what didn't, does in retrospect make me laugh is when the actors, the other actors on the, on an episode of the three Stooges, the three Stooges

would be doing insane things doing another. Right. But the other actors would, had to play someone like a Margaret Dumont would go, I think there was actually an episode where she said something like, now we'll be gone for three days. Make sure you take good care of the house and our daughters or something like that. After they just smacked each other and poked each other's eyes, she would say, yeah, these guys are good enough to watch the house. Yes.

Well, that's the most amazing thing to me. And I, you know, I am endlessly fascinated with it. And it's in all comedy, but especially the three Stooges is a great example of it where it's a very, very wealthy person is having a big important party. And they call the three biggest idiots in the world and they always demonstrate within seconds of showing up, within seconds, within seconds, they've broken five things. And she says, well, be that as it may. My priceless collection of clocks is upstairs and I hope you'll repair it.

Yeah, sure. Smash, smash, smash. No, no, no, no. You'd say, I think you should go. There's been a mistake. There's been a mistake. And also, why are those fucking guys even in the phone book? Why are the three Stooges in the yellow pages?

Exactly. And, you know, I love, I always think of what the three Stooges survived because every, in the era of Yelp reviews, would the three Stooges survive in an era where people were giving ratings because they go on Yelp and you'd say, I want to hire the three Stooges to do my plumbing. And the first one would be, I hired these three jackasses, they hit and slap each other, then destroyed my house and leveled it. I've called the police, but we can't find them.

A three Stooges Yelp review is such a great act. That's so fucking funny. There's a million things we could talk about and I feel like a million points of commonality. Like I know that you were also a huge Jimmy Cagney fan growing up. And this is a thing that people don't understand, I think, today as much. But when we're coming up, they didn't have enough television. I know that sounds crazy today, but there wasn't enough television. They made some prime time television, but then there was all these other hours.

And so what they would do is they would fill, especially local television, with old movies. So when I was young, I was watching and there was nothing to do, I was watching Angels with Dirty Faces. I was watching, you know, I'm a Yankee Doodle dandy. That was what I thought show business was. The only difference is it was 1975. I didn't know, no, show business now is Led Zeppelin, but I was looking at these guys from the 30s and I thought to be an entertainer, I had to know how to tap dance and I also

thought that I had to be able to talk like this, like, hey there, Michael, what do you say? Yeah, yeah. Where's the Padre? Let's go upstairs. Right, right, right. So that Johnny Dangerously way of talking and I thought that was necessary. Yeah.

So I went upstairs to the movies I saw were on a television screen, not at a movie theater because we had one car, my dad usually worked two jobs, have all these kids, my dad had the car. So we were just wherever we were and the car was elsewhere. And so it's not like we were going to the movies all the time, occasionally we would. But I saw everything on a television screen like that and I also was attracted to that stuff because that was what was on, you know, and man, there's so many things to talk about. Like I also used to like John Garfield because he was kind of like the underdog guy, you

know. He wasn't hanging out that snap and Garfield always, he was like long suffering or something. That's really where that whole thing I used to do about lying, but 30s movies, 40s movies lying came from where John Garfield did it better than anybody, better than you go. I'll tell you, I never knew anything, I never, what horse? I never knew anything. Why'd you say a horse, Johnny? Well, I read about it, I read about it, I'm just trying the idea out on people.

I read about it in paper. Yeah. Yeah. And then he likes it. Yeah, sure. That's it. I read about it in paper. That's all.

Yeah. I've also loved that it would happen in, you saw it all the time, even when I was growing up on soap operas, not that I liked soap operas, but literally when there was nothing else to watch, on television, people would, you'd come into a room and I would go like, you, and then you'd look at me and say, not happy to see me, Conan, I'd go, no, Michael, delighted to see you. I have a seat and you'd, in real life, you know, on the show, you're like, oh, good, yeah, good to see you too, Conan, but in real life, you'd be, no, what was I all about?

And then you would never forget it and you would lose my number and you would tell your friends, he did this weird thing with you. Oh, Michael Keaton, I mean, Michael Keaton, I love that stuff. But you know what's so funny is that you had, I talked earlier about your arc and it really fascinates me because I don't know where you got the moxie to use, if we're going to talk about old language or the balls, but you started out a more sophisticated language. Yeah, exactly. We start out and you establish yourself as this comic actor and then, and people don't

know this now because your role or your performance was so iconic that at the time I remember when they said, well, we got a new, the guy is going to play the new Batman is Michael Keaton. Yeah. And people acted as if they had just made a dog president. Yeah. They acted like, not that they had anything against you, they just thought, no, he can't be bad.

This is impossible. Yeah. It's a complete impossibility. And now in a way, and I don't mean just in a way, but you and working with Tim Burton, you guys reimagined what a superhero could be and that's what the superheroes have been for the last 30 years. How crazy is that? But at the time.

Oh man, Tim, I mean, we were all out on a limb, but you're right. At that time, when that happened and you have to credit Tim for, and to me and Tim, we went, yeah, I don't know. What do you think? And I said, yeah, I get it. What do you think? I think he's this guy, don't you? And we had a long discussion about who that guy really is, which was based on the Dark

Night series that changed everything. And so at the time, I just remember thinking, wait, I'm not even offended. Like what do you mean I can't, it was more of, I can't believe people think about this that much. Honestly, I went, what would it matter anyway? Who's sitting around thinking about that? And then I started to think. You mean the fans who were up in arms about how can this comic actor play Batman on a

serious Dark Night. And I remember at the time there being this huge disconnect with people and I lived through something kind of like that when I replaced David Letterman. I had the feeling of your response was I didn't think people cared that much. I knew people cared and I kind of agreed with them. Like my response was, yeah, I don't think I should replace David Letterman either. That guy's fucking awesome. And who am I?

But you hadn't thought of it until they brought it up, right? You probably thought, no, I want to do something pretty good at it. I'd like to give it a shot. And then they did what they did and you went, oh, geez, okay. What happens is everybody's thinking changes retroactively. So now, oh my God, yeah. Michael Keaton, Batman, actually the Batman. And then there are all these Batman's after that.

But you're in the firmament of like, no, you were the guy that brought it back and redefined what the action hero is. I wish more people would say, I got to say, at the time, I thought it was absolutely stupid and Michael Keaton and Tim Burton proved me absolutely wrong. But no one says that. No one's going to say that. I know. And do you know what's interesting?

I'm out talking about it because I went and did the flash and I almost have more of an appreciate, well, I do have more of an appreciation of, because it's become such a cultural thing. And then, let's be honest, you have to add the corporate element to it, just the massive monetary part of all that, not just all the Marvel stuff and all the stuff. It's a franchise. There's merchandising. Yes. I mean, it's like Exxon Mobile deciding where to put an oil rig.

Yeah. Really, it's not as simple as we're going to make a new Batman or we're going to make a new flash or we have a new idea for Superman. People are saying that this is billions of dollars. Billions upon billions. And so therefore you look at it and go, okay, it is so much a thing that I have to, not that it happened yesterday, I've slowly kind of come around. And I went, yeah, okay, and oddly, I appreciate it more in some weird way, I go, well, this

is really a thing. I mean, not that I didn't think it was, I knew it was risky and I knew we could fail terribly and I was glad it worked and I knew Tim was a pioneer in this stuff. But now that I do, I go, wow, this is kind of extraordinary that it is such a thing culturally that I now look at it differently and in an odd way, not with more respect, just I take it a little more seriously, I think, okay, well, this is big and I think I'm pretty good at it. So don't be a jerk, don't just kind of not blow it up, don't not take it serious.

First of all, I don't know how to not take things too seriously sometimes. But I look at it oddly differently now and it's kind of hard to explain and so when I went to do it, I really in some ways enjoyed it more because I kind of had another perspective on it. Once you go to work, you just show up and go, what's the scene? What do you think? What do you want to do here? Should I come in like that?

Whatever, you do all that. But I didn't expect that really. Not that I expected to go, yeah, whatever, I'm just going to pick up a check because I'm kind of incapable, I'm too afraid that I'll screw things up. The only reason I don't phone things in, I'm just afraid I'll screw it up too much. I think time has to go by. I just now made my peace with my early career and it's taken years and years and years from able to be able to look back and go, okay, you worked hard and you worked out well

and good, I had no access to any of that in the 90s or even the early 2000s, I just couldn't access it. It could be an Irish thing too, though, by the way. Could be a thing like, you're not so hot, you're not so, you know, that thing. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. Oh, definitely. Don't go talking about yourself too much.

Yeah, and you do it to yourself. Yeah. The voice is in you saying, oh, oh, pretty fancy, huh? Yeah. That's so weird. Yeah. Play Batman, did you? Yeah.

Wow, fuck you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who is this? Why does it sound like my father? Who is this? Excuse me. Yeah, you know, it's also, I mean, that role, that Batman role, you were able to figure it out so well for yourself and it's been such a trap for other people, like it's such

a tricky thing. Really tricky. There's just, I watched a documentary the other day about Val Kilmer and who I admire, he's obviously a very talented guy, but man, that was a nightmare for him replacing you and he loathed every second of it and it's a similar suit and everything. It's just, he couldn't find his way through it and he'll admit that and it's been so painful for other people. I wouldn't want to walk in after that, regardless of who that was, because you go, well, now

I got that burden. I'm just a guy who just wants to be good. He's a good actor and just was a guy who wanted to be good in something, but somebody was laying all that stuff on him. Man, I never want to walk into that situation. I mean, I guess the lecture I had was, I go, yeah, I know how I'm going to play it and I don't know, I think we're right and Tim and I, and we just said, yeah, let's go. Let's commit.

Let's make it. So I didn't have the burden of having to be compared to anybody else, you know, short of the television version. And that was, you know, kind of a- Yeah, no one went to the theater thinking, what's his take going to be on Adam West's performance? Yeah. And much as I love Adam West and I worked with Adam West and was friends with Adam West, but no, no one at the time thought, well, wait a minute, how does this figure

into the 60s TV show like- Hey, what about Bert Ward? We need a very heavy middle-aged Robin to help Batman in this scene. But then I'm going to go further than that because what I find so nice about your career and why I said earlier, it's got to be very nice, be Mike Keaton, is that you're now in this situation where you created enough space for yourself and what you can do that no one questions anything. You know, you can do Birdman, you look at that performance, which I absolutely loved and that was my favorite movie that year and your performance, that was my favorite performance

that year. And I just thought, you've created so much space for yourself that you can do that. You can also play a reporter who's investigating child abuse. I watched your upcoming film, The Protégé, last night where you're battling Maggie Q in these great fight scenes, but also being an excellent villain where I can't quite figure you out. Yeah. I don't hate you, but I should hate you, but you're really likable.

Maggie Q's character should hate you and wants to kill you, but also likes you. There's something going on there and I think you have created a world where you can do whatever you want, which is very rare. Really rare. I mean, I know I'm breathing rarefire there. I know I'm in a tiny percentile and you hit it. I don't think I've heard anybody put it like that and I'm not quite thought, that is it. You created the space, you know.

So you're right. I don't really know, but as you're saying that, there's some kind of image popped in my head where people, there must be some offices where somebody has a script and go, I don't know, and they just go, I don't know, throw it to him, see what happens, you know. And because what have we got to lose, that's kind of, I mean, it's an unbelievable situation to be in for me who has a low boredom level. That's a good way to put it. I created the space or a space was created where I can now afford to do this kind of

stuff. Like, look at this one. It's a prototype. I mean, it's fun. First of all, when I read the script, I went, oh, this is kind of, this is good. I mean, this setup is, there was a great setup with Sam Jackson and Maggie. And I go, oh, this could be really cool. And have I ever done that?

And I went, I don't think I ever did that. And also, can I get away with that? Can I pull that fucker off? Because I'm not going to get a chance at this again. Once you've done Mr. Mom, and then you carve out all this other crazy space for yourself with Beetlejuice, then Batman, and I think right after the Batman's two movies, you were, you carved out space for yourself because I saw you starting to play darker roles. Yeah.

I remember the first time I saw you in a movie that I really loved, I'm blanking on the name, but it was took place in San Francisco. Pacific Heights. Yeah, Pacific Heights. And you were so menacing, and then you tackle, okay, addiction. You think, okay, once you've done all that, and still relatively early in your career, you've laid down the gauntlet and said, I defy you to find something I can't take a shot at.

Do you know what I mean? First of all, those are just two movies that people said, Pacific Heights and Clean It Sober. I wouldn't do that if I were you. And I went, yeah, I kind of think I'm gone too, though. And those are the perfect examples because there's no real money. First of all, Pacific Heights was directed by John Sluss and your Midnight Cowboy, ladies and gentlemen.

So, you know, how do you not say, man, first of all, I want to do it just because I want to ask him a bunch of questions about Midnight Cowboy. And he was a wonderful director. So you're in business with a real movie maker, a real filmmaker. So don't do something stupid just to do it, but don't just go make mistakes. Don't think about them whether they're mistakes or not. Just go. Right.

Right. Because you only have a limited amount of time to do it. So just do it. And you're right. No one's really sitting around thinking about you. You're thinking about you. You think people are thinking about you. So just go do it because it's going to be a quicker route.

Yes. Just go, oh, fuck that up. Okay. Like they have done stuff. And doing that again. I want to make sure that I also get this in because this speaks to kind of the theme of what I wanted to talk to you about and there's so many things to talk about. And I swear to God, I could do 35 hours talking to you.

I admire you that much and I think we have a lot in common and a lot to talk about. So just have to come back 34 times. But you know, I was looking at even just the things that the projects that you're working on now and this idea that you've created space for yourself, what the work you're doing in Projet and then the work you're doing on this limited series Dope Sick is completely 180 degrees apart, you know, which I think is kind of fascinating. Because you're tackling that there's a light comedic aspect along with thriller and action adventure in Projet and then in Dope Sick, you're talking about the opioid crisis.

Yeah. Based on the book, Dope Sick. And I'm going to, so since we're talking, I'll just throw this in as well. I'm also an exec cruiser on that and I'm an exec cruiser on, which sometimes means nothing by the way, but on now Worth, which is based on the Ken Feinberg, it actually Ken Feinberg had written a book based on the, you know, Victim's Compensation Fund, 9-11. 9-11. Man, you and I, you and I were just talking about that alone, but, but, you know.

I would love to do that. I mean, seriously. No, I mean, even 9-11, not even me in a movie about 9-11, just that's a whole other thing. So I am doing those things and I love, I really love those things. They mean something to me and I'm not going to act like they don't and I'm not going to act like I thought, well, they just kind of happened. They didn't just kind of happen, but I'm not on any kind of mission exactly, but I'm blessed that I had this up.

Honestly, I don't, I don't throw the word blessed around. I'm truly like, I have great fortune that I have a job where I can do something that someone can watch and it could conceivably change something somewhere down the line. You know, I have a personal situation with Dope Sick because I lost my nephew to fentanyl. I mean, people say heroin, but it was really fentanyl. So there was a reason, a personal reason why I wanted to do this, but I would not have done it if it wasn't really well written and great, like Danny Strong behind it, the great, great people behind it.

I don't want to act like that. And worth men a lot means a lot to me because I was like you and everybody really. The 9-11 thing just changed me in certain ways about how I look at things. It just shook me and like everybody, I didn't shake me any more than it shook anyone else. There's a dividing line. I think for all of us, there's pre-9-11 and post-9-11. We had a glimpse at, maybe this is how the real world works. You know what I mean?

Maybe I thought I knew how the real world works, but maybe I'm seeing something now, but that's a whole other conversation. So yeah, I have these things and I'm glad to be out talking. I admit that I'm out talking about them and talking about them with you because it's all great stuff. I'm glad I'm in a cool spot now, man. I'm digging it. It's a lot of work.

This is like a breath of fresh air to come and do this stuff. I'm blown away by all this. First of all, we've covered so much ground and in a relatively short time. How do you like this? I love this. I thought- Because you know what? There's something, I can't do this, which I think deep down is what I've always wanted

to do. I loved doing The Late Night Show all the years, 28 years of doing that show. I loved it. And then the minute I started doing this, I thought, I get to really talk to people. And also, do you know how long it takes them to make me up? You've got sort of a more dark Irish. I've got- Yeah.

I'm an invisible model of a human being, where you see the circuitry system. You're translucent. So not doing the makeup. So yeah, I love doing this. I have to say this too. This is not a day at work to sit here and talk to you for an hour and shoot the shit and compare notes is an absolute joy for me. It really is.

Thank you. And so- And an honor. So the idea that this is also a gig is absurd to me. It shouldn't be a gig. It should just be something I force people to do for my pleasure. Well, thank you. This is only the second one I've done, I think.

I did Mark Marin this, and I really like it. I do. I'm not just saying this to be nice, but this is more fun. This is more interesting. Well, first of all, it depends on who you're sitting across from, but there's something easier about this. I can't put my finger on it. And I thought, when I heard you were doing this, I thought, oh yeah, of course, of course.

This would be a huge sigh of relief for you to go. I love this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm thinking to get one myself. Well, no, that's not going to happen. Okay.

All right. No, I'll crush you. Yeah. I'm just thinking about it. Don't come to your podcasting. Michael, you've had so much. Why do you need to take this away? Why?

Mine would be based on, like I hit someone the other day, I asked someone how they met. And I thought, oh, kidding, somebody did say, hey, do you think you have a podcast? My immediate thing was, yeah. And then I thought, no, I probably don't. I probably don't have any. One was how you meet. And I thought, yeah, that wouldn't be, because someone said, I get tired of people asking me how you meet.

And I thought, well, there's some bad starts to the question of how'd you two kids meet, by the way? You're such a cute couple. How'd you guys meet? And a bad start would be, well, Connie was just coming off a pretty serious yeast infection. I'm in this strip club. And I thought, can I ask her out? And I decided, yes, I can.

And she said, yes. Yeah. Well, I was just given a restraining order, but I got it overturned and she said, OK. Great stories of how we met. Well, let's do this again sometime whenever you want, whenever you want anytime and stay off my street. Yeah. You're creeping me out.

OK, dude. Thanks, man. Well, this is exciting. Our own Matt Gorely has, I believe, some important news to relate to us, Matt. The floor is yours. Well, it looks like the family here is going to get a little bit bigger coming in on the heels of Sona's twin boys. It looks like my wife and I are having a baby as well.

Congratulations. That is really exciting. Thank you. I actually knew that. I know. We knew. We both knew. And I'm a bad actor.

So I just, anyone listening who heard me and just went, oh, congratulations. Good for you. I'm realizing now that sounds awful. It's because I knew already and I've known for some time. But this is the first time that you're telling the listening public. That's right. It's been so long. In fact, we're not that far out.

But I've known for so long that I had to be a bad actor that Sona, when you announced you had twins on the way, I wasn't going to obviously reign on that prey. But I knew about my child on the way, but I couldn't say anything and just, you know, it's interesting how you have to do that. But wow. So Conan, we're going to be gone with children. Yeah. Yeah.

You're going to be alone. Well, here's we planned it. I hope this comes across the right way. But I pay you guys to podcast, not to have babies. What's going on here? Seriously. Everyone's like, oh, thanks for the check, Conan. They do come regularly.

Oh, and something else. My partner and I had sex and babies are coming and we're going to leave you. But we still want those checks. Now that seems unreasonable to me. Now you're deflating it a little bit. I don't think so. I think there's just a little bit of deflation happening. This is a joyous occasion and you're talking about our paychecks.

Well, I'm just trying to understand how this works from a business point of view. And I'd like to go over. I'd like to talk to some of the people in charge of the podcast, your, you know, your Adam Sacks, various accountants that are at work at the show. They may say, well, this doesn't make sense from a, when you go to business school, they don't tell you about this, you know? Now, I say that as someone who never went to business school, but I used to walk around to the business school sometimes, try and meet people.

What? I was asked to leave. I just thought it would be, well, if people went to business school, they might know stuff and I could hang out with them. It didn't happen. It was weird. It was very weird and it was a bad period of my life. I was a business school groupie.

I didn't go. I just hung out in the library. But my point is, I don't think this is part of the organizational team Coco flow chart. Well, like Sona said, we plan this and we also know that my daughter's going to grow up to marry one, if not both of her sons. Who knows what's going to happen then. So you're having a girl. Is that what you said?

That's right. That's great. Work. So I, you, you're going to be gone, right? Because you're going to be helping your wife, Amanda, take care of your new child, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's the plan.

But maybe we'll be staggered actually. Maybe Sona will be back because our due date's not till September, late September. And again, I hate to, maybe Adam, if you could just jump in for a second, do they get paid while they're on? What does it call? Oh my God. How does it work? It's maternity and paternity leave.

Yes. What is it? What's the deal? The problem is that parental leave protections are really strong in California. So as far as I understand, they, they really can just have gone as long as they want. Have we? No, no, no. But Adam's on the, Adam is on the right track.

He knows, he knows exactly. Okay. Yes, it is problematic and I'm sure that there are these quote laws on the books. But if we've learned anything over the past few years with a good lawyer, I mean, have there been challenges? Oh my God. This is interesting because I'm an independent contractor and I had no idea that this was even an option.

So I'm glad this is getting on record. Yeah. Conan did. Wait a minute. I, I, I think our, oh, our lawyer, oh great. Our lawyer is available. He's coming in now. Oh shit.

Uh-oh. You have to pay if you don't want it. What? Yeah. So that's just a loan. Is he a lawyer? Uh, hey, you don't have to pay it if you don't want to pay it. Oh my God.

I object. You just don't pay it. It's not something you have to pay. So it's not. Oh, by the way, I should probably introduce my lawyer. Yeah. This is, uh, this is Jason Giacometti. Uh, God.

Jason. So you think it's crazy, they're not working, they're just helping, they're just helping raise their own kids. I know. It's just, that's the only part that seemed weird to me. Is there a way to maybe put them on a reduced pay? I think we could probably make that case. Okay.

Jason Giacometti, you're an incredible lawyer and, um, a very good boxer in the 70s. You fought in Philadelphia, uh, and, uh, against, um, incredible fighter, uh, for the title, and you almost won, but you, you stuck by Adrian. Uh, just, uh, just think you don't have to pay it. Oh God. All right. Well, I'm glad our lawyer was able to cut in and talk to us briefly. I, here's the thing.

Yeah. I know you guys think I'm doing a bit and, and to a degree I am, I'm doing like a bit and some shtick, but then it does, I do get confused like, how long do you think you'll be gone, Sona? Would you be gone like? A year? What are you fucking talking about? Yeah.

You're not gone for a year. I'll probably be two. For paternity leave is typically longer, so I'll be two years. My mother had six children in four years and she took no time off. Oh my God. Babies were just flying out left and right. And then my, my mother was constantly, uh, back to work. That's what it was like when I was growing up.

No one said a child is born and wise men gather and bring frankincense and myrrh, whatever that is. And, uh, that's when people, that's back when people got excited about a spice. Can you imagine today if someone was born and you showed up at the door, I brought you some spice. Paprika. What? I brought paprika and cumin.

That's what you better send us. I brought paprika and cumin and some basil leaves. Okay. Well, this other person showed up with a really nice, uh, pram from Britain and this person gave us a baby bjorn and this person gave us a, well, I brought spice. Because that's what's in the Bible. Well, I, um, you've had two kids. Yeah.

I took no time off. Well, I bet you don't, didn't you want time off? It was kind of crazy at home. Come on. She wasn't sleeping. The babies. I was like, well, if I don't interview Tim Robbins, who will I guess the option is we could not take time off and just do these remote recordings holding our babies up to

the mic. Isn't there a way? Yeah. That's my other question. As long as you're holding the baby, you're quote, being a good parent and I'm sure you're a digital whiz, gorely with, with your sonic abilities. Can't you remove their crying and fussing, uh, digitally? Oh my God.

No. No. No. No. If you're not going to give us leave, these babies are going to be, they're going to be three babies screaming at the top of their lungs during the entire interview with the next Obama. What if I have to breastfeed?

You'd get very awkward if I like had a thing around me and then was breastfeeding. You don't even like saying cervix. In today. Stop it. Don't say cervix. It's never been proven there is such a thing. Science is the, did jury still out on that? Oh geez.

No cervix. No such thing. Uterus. Placenta. Like the female orgasm. It is but a myth. Um, I, uh, I'm concerned, I'm concerned about you guys leaving me because we make such a good trio, um, you know, me being sort of the alpha, but you guys whatever I'm the sun

and you're these, uh, but you're very good planets that revolve around me and, um, lifeless planets, small, often. Why would we ever want time off from this? I know. I can't wait for this baby to come. I know. I can't wait. You guys are going to induce labor early.

I know. How would you want to induce at seven months? Trust me. How do we work with a monster? Amanda's pregnant again. It's two months after she just gave birth. Let me be, uh, in a rare moment of sincerity, uh, I love both you guys and I'm very excited for both of you.

You're going to be amazing parents. I do resent that you get this thing called paid leave. I still don't get that. I will again look into it, uh, but I will decide for now to pretend to be gracious about it. Um, and, uh, but I'm really excited. And, uh, I promise that even without the two of you who are so great, uh, leaving temporarily will, will keep the fun coming here at Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.

I will not let you down. I will not let you down, even though I've been betrayed by two of my cohorts and their need to procreate. Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gorely, produced by me, Matt Gorely, executive produced by Adam Saks, Joanna Solotarov, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Ear Wolf, theme song by the White Stripes, incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples, engineering by Will Beckton, talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brick Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode.

And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Ear Wolf.