Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Oh Walt Whitman!

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

Conan talks to Brooke in New York City about working as an intimacy coordinator, closure practices, and the most common inaccuracies while filming a sex scene.   Wanna get a chance to talk to Conan? Submit here: teamcoco.com/apply Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/conan. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Conan O'Brien needs a fan. Want to talk to Conan? Visit teamco.com slash call Conan. Okay, let's get started. Hey, Brooke. Welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a fan. Hey, how's it going? Hey, Brooke, how are you?

I'm great. How are you? I'm doing all right. I don't see where you are in the world. Where are you? I'm in New York, currently in Queens. You're in Queens? Oh, terrific.

And all I know about you, it says here, and this is fascinating to me, is that you are an intimacy coordinator. Is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. It's the best job in the world. Yeah, it is. Well, I'm...

Okay, Sona, Sona, why don't you tell us? So excited. Literally, Sona's the one that has thoughts about this. This is, I mean, this job is endlessly fascinating to me. And I would think it's become more and more necessary as sex scenes. If you think about, you know, back in the... day it was a it was a kiss and then the camera would drift over to an open window and some billowing curtains and then pan back over and people were smoking cigarettes and the covers

are pulled up to their chins so obviously as sex scenes become more graphic and realistic you need people there to make sure that everything's copacetic is that correct yeah i think the position came out of the me too movement where all of a sudden the away of some of the abuses in Hollywood became very apparent. And as a result, producers started being willing to pay for someone to be there, both for guaranteeing that actors can consent to what's being asked of them in a private setting with someone who's not in charge of hiring or firing them. Oh, right, right.

And then also exactly what you're saying, the artistic side of it, which is the fun part, is making the scenes more believable, authentic, compelling, absurd, whatever the need of that project is. Okay. I mean, I'm curious, first of all, how did you become, how does one become an intimacy coordinator? Yeah, well, nowadays, there's schools you can go to, but I started back in 2016. I was an actor for a bunch of years, and I tended to get cast in roles that involved intimacy or trauma. And I realized that I'd taken years and years of study. I have my MFA in performance, and all of my teachers taught me how to get to the place of grief or fear or terror, but not how to get back from it. Got it. And I had a summer that I was doing three shows in a row, three theater shows, where I, like, cried for four months, basically in every show.

And I was like, I need a way to come back to who I. am that's healthy. So I started creating a warm down for actors and theaters started bringing me into Teach It. And then I'm queer. I came out late in life. And when I came out, I realized right away I wanted to tell queer stories because I hadn't come out earlier because I hadn't seen representation of bisexuality. Right. So I wanted to tell those stories, but I realized I had a straight lens. Yep. And so I took a year and every day for a year. I read something or listen to a podcast or watched a show or took a class all on queer sex and storytelling BDSM and kink. And then theaters started bringing me in to stage that bondage scene.

And then one day a theater said, hey, will you be our intimacy director again? And I was like, dear Google, what is an intimacy director? And right about that time, it was being named and people were paying for it. And I realized that this thing that I was doing that involved boundaries and consent, choreography, and closure, which is the warm down section, there was now a field. And so I kind of had that, you know, when people say that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. Opportunity.

Yeah. I mean, that was my journey. And it was awesome. And then when the pandemic hit, I switched to film and TV, film first. And then I got to do my first TV scene on a new. June 1st, the first day of pride, on Harlem, and it was a queer scene. And that was pretty awesome. And I was hooked. Oh, well, good for, I mean, first of all, congratulations on, I'm very happy when people find, it takes a long time. Sometimes, you know, it can take all different amounts

time, but it can take a very long time to find sort of your calling, you know, what you, what you feel like you were put here to do. And it sounds like you, it didn't happen overnight, but you found it and that's got to be incredibly rewarding. I have to say one thing is that I could see a lot of Charlottons getting into the business and saying, yeah, I'm an intimacy coordinator, but they're not. Are there ways that you can say I'm licensed? Is there a license you can get? Is there any way that they can patrol it so that it creeps like me don't become intimacy coordinators? That's what I'm saying. You're like, do it, guys. Yeah, hey, you guys, why don't you do it? And I'll watch. Conan, why are we doing this at a campground?

Quiet! This is my method. You know... This isn't even in the scene. Yeah. Why are you taping this with an old super eight camera? So, yeah, that's what I'm saying is, you know, we need to stop people like me from becoming enemy seat coordinator.

How are you doing that? I'm really glad you brought it up because I am here specifically to stop you from doing this. Yes. Yes. Oh, okay. All right. Well, just try. There isn't any licensing. There are schools that offer certification or accreditation or a diploma. But really, the marker, in my opinion, is SAGAFRA came out with guidelines for intimacy coordinators, which is a number of things you should be trained in. It adds up to a minimum, I think, of 75 hours. And then in order to be on.

on the SAG after registry, you have to have worked on a SAG set for at least 60 days. So if a producer is really looking for someone who's super qualified, then that's one way to tell. But I also think asking someone about their process is really useful because not every I see is great for every project. Right. And I'm a big believer that you need the right IC for your project. What is, I mean, I want to get into some of this because there's so much I don't understand.

understand, but there are, are there devices or kinds of garments that people wear? Because you can't really have people, you know, touching each other certain parts, right? So what's, what is the barrier to that? What is, because I've always heard that there are these things and you hear about it and you're like, I don't know what they're talking about. Yeah. You're exactly right. It's called a barrier. Okay. And if it's a sag after film, there can be no actual sex acts. So a barrier can look a number of ways. It could look like this.

Oh, yes. This is... That is the least sexy thing of everything. Sona went, oh, yes. And you're basically holding up what looks like a giant eye patch. And so I was like, oh, yeah. I'm glad there's... I'm glad she has props with her.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Oh, okay. So what is that? That's a barrier. So you're correct that sometimes filming these scenes is the least sexy thing you'll ever do. This is a modesty garment with a barrier. It's made by Covier in New York.

And basically, this is for someone with external genitalia. Some might call that a penis. And basically, you would put all, everything in here. And then you would pull it tight. And then it's taped to the top of, like right below your belly button. and inside is a barrier. And a barrier is meant to reduce sensation and prevent the transmission of fluids.

Okay. Now, a couple of things here. First of all, that thing seems huge. What do you do with all the extra room? Is that for cash and credit cards too? Absolutely. Cell phone? I'm just looking at that thinking,

thinking like there's a lot of extra room. You know, I don't know what kind of freaks your work. with. But I'm keeping a book in there. But Brooke. Okay. Fluids. Yeah.

We have to talk about this. Is this something? And I'm asking, if you're listening right now and there are children in the car, you know, what are you doing? But do people get themselves in a state while they're acting where there could be various secretions? Honestly, not very often, if at all. Okay.

If someone were to get aroused, for example, there are lots of things you can do to let that go. Just think about baseball. That's what I do. Just think about 1975 Red Sox and it all goes away. Oh, wait, no, it comes back with a vengeance. Start thinking about Dwight Evans. That's a good-looking man over there and right field. Anyway, so it doesn't happen that often.

What is, oh my God, what is the thing that's depicted in most sex scenes that you see that's the most inaccurate? Do you know what I mean? Something where you're like, they always do this in scenes and it's not how it really works. Well, two things actually, I would say. One, a very fast orgasm where it's like we started touching and now we're all orgasming together at the the same time. But the other I would say is we often don't see the moment of like insertion where, you know, like all of a sudden they're just having sex. But in real life, it takes some effort for the penis to find a vagina, for example. And you mean the actual moment of

coordinating this part goes into this part and it takes a second, right? Yeah. And I think because not actually doing it, people forget that there needs to be that moment of reaction, of like, oh, something new has happened, whether it's a breath or a slight shift or something. Yes. Well, first of all, thank you for getting the word out there that sometimes there can be some fumbling, some confusion about what goes where. Which hole? No, hold on a second. Maybe one knows the hole, but it's dark.

You're getting yelled at. Do you know what I mean? You're getting yelled at. Yeah. What are you doing? You've never got, how can, so many years and you didn't get better? That kind of thing. Oftentimes you're trying to eat a sandwich with one hand, you know, because you didn't get a chance to eat after the podcast.

I'm speaking very generally. Absolutely. You know, you've got, you're looking, you're trying to watch television at the same. On the time. Oh, old clips of yourself. Not current clips, but old clips of the TBS show and before that the NBC show. Oh, okay. So much of intimacy is about reaction.

So if we don't have those moments of reaction, we lose it. And so much of us get our education from media, our sexual education. And so when we show these things are impossible. And of course, we can. traumatized things, but we're doing a disservice to folks. Well, if people now watch these things and they think, oh, you know, it's easy to do it

standing up in the kitchen. Do you know what I mean? And it's, I'm telling you, it's not. It's not easy. Especially if the fridge is open. It's cold. You know what I mean? And then you try to incorporate cake batter

that's nearby. Well, because you see it and you think this would be a good idea. and then you get yelled out again. I need to throw up. This is so gross. Cake batter. Come on.

I can't. I got to go. Where you going? You got nowhere to go. I got to go. What do you use? Do you use drawings, charts? What do you do to try and instruct people when you're explaining how the sex scene should work?

Kinds of things. Sometimes I just use my words. Like, sometimes I do use images. Sometimes I use action figures. You use action figures? See, we've got a little position. Wait a minute, what's happening there? I need to try and figure out what's happening.

So this gentleman on the bottom is laying down enjoying himself. Couldn't tell what the sex was of that person because it looks like a Lego. Yeah, and this other gentleman is up, one knee on the ground, one foot up, and he's pleasuring this guy. And if we wanted to turn it into a threesome, we could just add her. Okay, she's going to grab onto his leg and she's fistic. Wait, oh, she's fissing? Oh, okay. She's going to fist to this guy.

She's pushing her fit. Okay, so all right. That is two males and one, right? Describe what's happening here. In this case, it's too men and one woman. You've got to check out the video, by the way, and it's on YouTube. You've got to see it. It's incredible.

But yeah, this would be a kind of particularly difficult scene to just talk through. Yeah. I mean, try to explain. that. That's an Escher drawing. You don't know. The stairs are turning into more stairs or turning into more.

I mean, it's a very confusing. That's a Dali painting. There's a melting clock in the corner. So, yeah. Okay, I see what's happening. That's not a situation that probably comes along every day, you know? No, not that one specifically.

Yeah, probably not. And what movie was that for? Is that Toy Story 5? What is that? Oh, no. You just got fired from it? You just got fired. They're now editing me out of Toy Story 5 as we speak.

Don't worry. It's a $100 million fix at the last second. Pixar has the money. So you have those figurines ready to go. I mean, it's not like you have to improvise with a G.I. Joe and a Thor and an Iron Man, right? No, I have a whole kit of stuff I bring to set. I bet you do. Whether it be the barriers you saw, these guys.

I use this for a barrier sometimes. What is that? That looks like a turkey. This is just a squish mellow, but sometimes if someone's having a rough day, it's a little bit hilarious if I just put this between the two people. Because you can't have a bad day when you've got a squish mellow near you. I think I'm aware that I'm not an actor every time, a true actor, every time I see a sex scene. And I think I don't know how these people do this, you know, because there's 75 people around them. And I just can't imagine how they do it.

Orgasmy, you know, pretending to orgasm. It's just, you know, and then there's a sound guy, you know, two inches away from you who just had a liverwurst sandwich and, you know what I mean? Yeah. Or a chaw tobacco. And it's insane. Absolutely. I mean, this is why we don't get aroused very often because there's all these people around.

But you could do it if you wanted to, Conan, because it's actually so technical. Like, I worked with an actor recently on an orgasm, and we choreographed it. We, like, voice-ographied it with what the breasts were going to be, what the vocal sounds were going to be so that she didn't have to make any of it up. It was ready to go. Anyone can do it if they want to do it. Okay, but here's my question. do people ever because sometimes they're drawing

from personal experience so when an actor is pretending to orgasm they're really telling you often what they sound like or the sounds they make which is very personal right?

Isn't that kind of strange has anyone ever revealed their sounds to you and you're like oh boy you know what I mean? Well I think that's why this position go ahead but I'm just saying

I'm going to take this a little further. Oh, no. Let's say you were working with me, and I was in a movie where it's required that I have sex, okay? And there's a scene, and you say, okay, Conan, and I'll say, well, let me just freestyle the first one. Yeah. And we've got the little squishy between me and the actress,

and squish, squish, squish, squish, and I'm there, and I'm going, you hear me freestyle, I'm going, Oh, uh, yeah, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Walt Whitman, you know. And you realize that, oh, Jesus Christ, those are the sounds Conan makes. And then when he reaches his climax, he shouts the name of one of our great poets, Walt Whitman.

I mean, I've just revealed to you, and I think I just did right now, to everybody listening, what my jam is. That's my jam. I think that's one of the reasons that it's so important to have an intimacy coordinator because actors should not have to bring their personal experience to set. Broca's going to her job. I know.

So you're saying you would prevent me from using my true noises and my certain peccadilloes in a scene. I would give you the opportunity to do something that the character would do rather than what you're suggesting. But what if the character's name is Kronin-O-W. Ryan. And he's a tall Irish guy from Boston. You know what? You go for it. Okay. Yeah. I just, I think it's endlessly fascinating. And I bet you they're always coming up with new technology. They're going to keep coming up with new things. Like here's a spray that the guy can put on his penis that encases it in a inert goo that will, you know, keep his penis from becoming around. They'll come up with all kinds of crazy new stuff, you know? I know they will.

I don't think they have to. I want this spray. Come on, science. Hey, NASA, let's get on it. That's what we need is NASA in the intimacy coordinator. I think we could make a partnership here. I'm just saying, I do think all foolishness aside, which is a lot of foolishness aside, but it's really good. that you're there doing this.

And it's stunning to me that it took so long for people to realize that, you know, we need someone on set to make sure that the actor is taken care of and has an advocate, you know, in the moment. And when you said, I mean, things that there should be so obvious, but you can't be talking to the director or the producer who can have you fired. You need to be talking to you, Brooke, you're there telling them, I'm on your side and let's make this work for you.

So that's huge. That's a great service you're providing. Yeah, and I find that actors, if they're given all the information, they're ready to go for it. Most often there's not an issue, but often in the past, actors weren't given the information in advance and things weren't choreographed. So it was just like, go for it. And then you are bringing your personal experience because that's what you know. Yeah. Whereas now we can say, oh, you've got a boundary about blank.

Great. Let's talk through the story. Let's bring the director three other options that will work with your boundaries and that works with the story and see how we can all make this work in a way that works for everyone. So that on the day, the actor isn't worried about the intimacy. They're able to really dig in to the acting and give it. give it their all. Do you, have you ever seen a couple kind of start to form a relationship when they're,

you know, they clearly have feelings for each other. You see like, oh, this isn't just acting. Have you ever seen that? Yeah. Honestly, it happens quite frequently because our bodies respond to physical touch, to eye contact, to breath. So our bodies can. tell us we're actually attracted to someone even when we're not. And that's part of why

closure practices are helpful to differentiate between when I am the character and when I am myself. Yep. And if it's theater, we're talking about, and two actors start to become involved, it's really important that the choreography doesn't grow with the actor's relationship, because that then isn't telling the character's story anymore. So a stage manager, for example, is in charge of keeping that choreography really precise so that it doesn't change because that's just not professional. I could just see that happening all the time, though, people, and it does. People are on a movie together.

They fall in love or, you know, they start a relationship because they have been kissing each other and rolling around. Rubbing each other. Would you say? They're rubbing each other. No, but they're wearing their barriers. Yeah, but you know, you're rubbing. And the barriers have all that extra room, so they have tick-tacks in there.

An alarm clock. An alarm clock. Yeah, the one they got from their great grandfather. Just saying, that barrier had a lot of extra room. They can be sized. There's a 64-ounce bottle of Dr. Pepper. What's that? Size them.

Oh, good God. Thank you. Yeah. You know, I just don't like to waste material. Brooke, fascinating what you do. It really is. It really is fascinating. And I'm happy for you that you realize.

this talent and you're helping people. And it's a very, it's great. It's really great. Thanks. You will never see me on a set having an intimate scene. I will always be the weirdo in the other room

in any sex scene who peers in occasionally. That'll be my role. So you can teach me how to peer. Brooke, thank you so much for everything and take care and I'll see you on set. Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Anytime people talk about I see work, it gets more normalized. So I really appreciate you. Normalized? What about me going, Walt Whitman. Normalized. Brooke, you called the wrong place. Thanks, Brooke.

Bye. See you. Conan O'Brien needs a fan. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam Obsessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leow. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

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