Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Patton Oswalt & Meredith Salenger

Episode Date: January 24, 2022

Comedian Patton Oswalt feels 100% not embarrassed about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Actress Meredith Salenger feels so blessed about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Patton and Meredith sit down with Conan to talk about how they met, odd encounters with Orson Welles, their podcast Did You Get My Text?, and hunting for impossible snacks. Later, Conan helps Sona and Matt prepare for their children's eventual betrothal to one another. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is Patton Oswald and I'm feeling 100% not embarrassed about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Hi, my name is Meredith Salinger and I feel so blessed about being Conan O'Brien's friend. See, it's always better to go with pure enthusiasm. I thought mine was I introduce math into my not embarrassment, had a negative and that's where the eye goes. Where does the ear go? Because it's a podcast.

Did it? The ear strangely goes to the positive. I think it might. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends, I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, the podcast that tries to build bridges to a better world.

What? I don't know. Well, that's new. I needed to say something and I said that and it's just not true. I know. We're building nothing. No. This is the dam buster.

We're the dynamite at the base of a very big dam and there's a whole civilization beneath us that will be flooded once this podcast airs. Joined as always by Sona Movesesion. Hey Sona. Hi. And of course, Matt Gorley. Hey, by the way, dam busters is what we call it when my newborn daughter has a poop that explodes out the back of her diaper.

Well, that's terrific. That's great. Oh man. That's great. These are some good poops. That's good. That's good. We're building a bridge.

Yeah. Yeah. To a better world. Yes. Out of excrement. Would you want to go to... I don't know why I thought... If one of those billionaires said, hey Conan, do you want to go to space, would you do it?

Would I go to space? Yeah. No, I'm very happy with Earth. Okay. I'm very happy with Earth. I have never had any desire and I have lots of friends that would say, oh my God, I would love it to go into space or I have a friend that wants to be on one of those Mars missions where you're pretty much assured you're never coming back.

Oh. I like it here on Earth. I do too. This is where I was millions of years of evolution. I'd go. I'd go as long as I didn't have to go with all the weirdos that are the first ones to go up there. Like the...

You would definitely go? Yeah. I think if it were proven safe for a few missions... Oh for God's sake. You can't. You can't. It's not... So you'd go as long as it's 100% safe.

No, I didn't say that. I said proven safe, like, you know, give it a few years and then all the weird tech moguls aren't going up there. I don't want to be dying with those people. You kidding? Your estate can sue them. You want to be on the one with Bezos that... So this is like suicide by orbit?

Yeah. So my family gets insurance claims and settled? Yeah. They get to call the Bezos estate and say, hey, it's because your husband pushed the blue button instead of the green button that my husband didn't make it. So and they're like, fine, whatever, here's a billion dollars, don't call again. And you're in the clear. I would certainly throw up, though, just from the motion of it, I think.

Maybe not. They probably worked it out. It probably just feels like a Tesla accelerating. I'm sure that's exactly what it feels like, you know. No, I have no desire. Sona, do you want to go into space? I would do one of those missions where you go up, you're like, hey, Earth, and then you come right back down.

I don't just want to do the Tower of Terror version of that. You want to go on a spaceship that goes 300 feet into the air and then lands gently and they open the doors and they serve you pizza, right? That's what you want. And say like, you went to space, trust us. Trust us. Oh boy, did you go to space. Really?

Because I felt like I just went up 300 feet. Yeah. It's just like at the tip of Mount Baldy. No, I'm not going to space. I have no interest. I'm tired of people asking me, please go to space, please leave Earth, please, please get out of there. Why do you think I want to go to space?

You don't even want to go. You just are trying to lure me into going. I want, because you can have Earth, I need to get away. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I'm very excited. I have a very funny husband and wife duo who hosts their own podcast, Did You Get My Text?

New episodes are available every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm excited to chat with them today. My old friend, Patton Oswald and Meredith Salinger, welcome. Now I like an origin story. So Patton, obviously I've known you for a long time. I think you first came on The Late Night Show in 1998 when you were, I think you were six years old. Yes, I was.

That's right. I was the six-year-old who could recite Ned Beatty's speech from network. That was my thing for a while. And I toured the country with that. So yeah, I remember that you had it on. And then when you were seven, you came back and you did his scene from Deliverance and it really bummed people out. And that's what that, and then it was a 10-year low.

Yeah. People, you could not get work. I couldn't get work. Lost my agency. It was rough. It was a little rough. So yeah. He all blamed me.

And then, so I know your story. And then Meredith, I've been very happy because Patton, since he met you, has been, he's been in a good place. He's flourished. Wow. Okay. He's gone to the next level of his evolution. Yeah, exactly.

He now has arms. He didn't have arms for, I love how she's doing it. He's in a good place. He's flourished. He's flourished. Excuse me. He has flourished. Yeah.

You just hit me with your handbag when you said that. Bam. He's flourished. He's flourished, I tell you. But I want to know your origin story. Like, I don't actually don't know how you two met. I know we're going to talk about the podcast you have together, but I want to know how you two got together and got it on.

I'm the Chuck Woolery of my generation. Oh my God. Well. Because we need a Chuck Woolery. No, we actually don't. It should have ended with him being mentioned in the Beastie Boy song and that's in this day. What did they rhyme with?

Woolery. Tom Fullery? Tom Fullery. Yes, they did. They rhymed Tom Fullery with Chuck Woolery. Oh my God. I love it. Oh, anyway.

How did we meet? Well, you know, I had gone to a very, very bad time, as you know, and I, Meredith and I have a mutual friend in a woman named Martha Plimpton, actress, activist, really just a very dynamic person who loves to- Martha and I have been friends since I was 15 years old. So they were teenagers. Yeah. So she likes to pull together these salons where she invites various friends from various

circles. You're making the story so long. Martha started her career on a little god spell when she was seven. No, she likes to bring different people together and- Martha had a dinner party and she invited 15 people on a Facebook text thread. So you could see everybody who she invited on Facebook on a text thread. I went to the dinner party. Everybody went but Patton.

So the next day on the text thread, I wrote, best dinner party ever, dude, you missed the- are we allowed to curse? Dude is not a curse. Dude, you missed the best fucking- I was allowed to say dude. No, no, no. Dude. I wrote best dinner party ever, dude, you missed the best fucking lasagna. And he happened to be online at the same time and messaged me, oh my God, I was supposed

to be there, blah, blah, blah. And we ended up because we were online at the same time, texting back and forth for two hours. And then, and not like flirting or anything. No, just wanted to talk to someone. It was nice. Yeah. And so, we texted and then he was like, this was really nice, same time tomorrow.

I was like, all right. So then the next night at nine o'clock and then for three months straight, every night for two hours, we texted. I'd put Alice to bed and I would go, Alice is asleep, are you here? It was almost like I was walking into a cafe but it was just this message thread and then we would- I had someone to talk to in the dark for two hours every night. It was great. It's been elected, inaugurated and it was horrible and it was like, oh my God, can you

believe he's a fucking spy? Russian spy, Russian asset. We would talk about that. No one talks about, he had so many things happen in four years that no one even remembers that one. Remember when there was a thing about, you know, Trump in the hotel room and being peed on and people got past that within days. I know because every single day there was something for us.

He had a raccoon on the south lawn and blood was coming out of his neck. But at the very beginning, I knew of him, I have never really, I think I had seen King of Queens like once or twice. I just didn't remember it all that much. I only know Patton from King of Queens. I'm not even aware that he does comedy. Well then I watched, so about two months in, well about a month and a half, we were talking about a movie or something and he's like, oh, that actress, I said, oh, that actress

is so pretty. And he's like, you're so pretty. I'm like, oh, shit, does he think this is, are we flirting? What's happening right now? Right. And then. And I don't even think I meant it in a flirty way. I just was stating a fact.

It's the fact. That was a little flirty. Anyway. It's a little flirty. By the way, I do that a lot when I'm just trying to buy stuff online and I'm like, I'm always like, you're so pretty. And it gets me in trouble. It's the space bar on my.

Yeah. So I got put in the back of my head and then the next, I was like, this is the nicest, smartest, best man in the universe. And I slowly was falling in love with him. And I. And you haven't met him. No, we never met in person. Didn't even speak.

Never even spoke on the phone. Didn't hear each other's voices. And so I went, I went to lunch with my best friend and I burst into tears and she's like, why are you crying? And I said, I think I love him. And she's like, then why are you crying? And I was like, because I'm going to meet him and I'm not going to like him. I know me.

I don't like anyone. That's the rap on you, Patton, by the way, everyone's like, he's so funny, but don't meet him. Try to just text. I just figured. Text length. I remember for years, I only would have Patton on the show through text. I would text into the show.

He would text into the show and he would kill. And then whenever he would come on the show, it was like, out of all booze. Yeah. Just a minute I walked out, just people hissing, a lot of hissing, a lot of foot stomping. It was rough. So this is fascinating to me because you haven't, now what about looking into his work? You must have done that. Oh, I did.

I looked at some of his comedy bits online and then I knew that he had done Young Adult with Charlize Theron and I knew he had a sex scene in it. And I was like, well, I should probably check that out. Isn't that incredible? I mean, first of all, I have told people that I have a sex scene out there with Charlize Theron. It's not true. Right.

It's not available. It's not available. It doesn't exist in the modern era. All footage is immediately available all the time. Yeah. But, and I've been, Charlize's people have contacted me and said, you've got to stop telling people that you have a sex scene with Charlize Theron. Well, you know what also sucks is that she's checking out my sex scene with Charlize Theron.

So there is a, I have a sex scene with one of the most genetically perfect beings. Like I couldn't do a scene with like John Goodman or Paul G. Monty. Like I'm, I'm in a scene that just highlights how not physically perfect I am. I have to do it with, with this Nexus 6 Android. Can I just, can it be with Richard kind? That'd be a good thing. Shut up, Richard kind. This guy's an Adonis.

Wow. I got to get on with him. So yeah. So yes, I checked out his stuff and I, and finally it, we decided to meet and we were planning to meet. That's a lot of pressure. And I was so nervous because I really did love him. Like I was like, I love, and I, I've never been married.

I mean, I've had four billion boyfriends. I've dated everybody, but I've never been married. Wow. You sound like you have no bar at all and you just, you've dated everybody. Well, everybody, every, but every good buddy, every good, every good. You said four million. There are four million good guys in the middle. No, there's like 10 good ones.

Yeah. Anyway, we planned to meet and we did and I was like, you're so cute. And then I just knew. And then once I saw him, I was like, if we had chemistry when we met, I was like, that's my husband. We're good. And then we did. And she was smart.

I was, I said, we should go to dinner somewhere. And she said, well, let's go somewhere near like a beach or something. No, I didn't want to have dinner and sit down and order. What if I didn't like you and then sit there for two hours and have to talk to you for, yeah. You just had an online relationship for six years and you don't think you can handle 40 minutes at Wendy's? Well, I didn't know if I'd be attracted to him and I did.

And I was just very concerned that I would be like, eesh, what have I done? Right. And you'd actually say that out loud. Right. Yeah. That would have been amazing. And there's, you know, like into the multiverse with Spider-Man, if the multiverse exists, there's one where we met in the lobby of that hotel and she went, eesh, like you look right

in the face. Nope. Sorry. Can you validate my parking? I got to get out of here. I had three blind dates in my entire life and each time the woman made the exact same sound. And then she would, they'd always say the same thing, I'm planning to have diarrhea

soon. I'd better go. Who plans diarrhea? So anyway, okay, but let me hear from your perspective, Patton, you went through this tragic loss and I don't know, I don't know if you were even thinking of another stage in your life. No. My head was in what I thought was a good place, but it was actually a very bad place.

I had reached this point through some really bad months and weeks where I had hit a level where I said, I can now merely exist and that's fine. I'm not going to experience joy, but at least not experiencing despair and pointlessness anymore. I can wake up. I can make my daughter breakfast, take her to school, pick her up, maybe get on stage and tell her some jokes. Maybe I'll just function as an actor.

I was a presentable robot, if that makes sense. And I thought that was how I could live and then I met, and I remember, I went to a grief group and there were people in there saying, I know this sounds weird, you've just come out of, I don't think I can live, well now you can live and now you're going, I don't think I can experience joy or happiness again and you will. You just can't see it right now. And it took, first just meeting her through, just meeting her mind basically. It was, you know, one of the things you miss when you're with someone you're supposed to

be with is someone to talk to in the dark at the end of the day and just, am I going insane or did that happen today? Oh yes, it did. It like, you have someone to reassure you about the reality you're in. So just to, to encounter her mind, just her mind that way was so, it's so agile and original and amazing. So to have that and then go, oh, this is the joy that I'm missing. So then everything else was just a bonus on top of already what was this, I don't want

to say a Sunday, that sounds a little weird, like it's an extra cherry and a Sunday with a cherry already on it, but it just, it felt like, oh, everything else after this is a bonus on top of. I just want to say, and it's a lovely thing you just said, but if someone sent me a Sunday that had three cherries on it, I'd send it back. Yeah, I'd be a little. I say this is too many cherries. A little much.

A little too hard. Yeah. Stop trying something. Yeah. And so, and I have done that. I've often said. Really? Or I've eaten it all and said, I'm not paying for it.

There were three, three cherries on it. And then they've always pointed out you ate all three cherries. And I'm like, yeah, we'll fuck you. I'm a terrible, terrible person. Terrible, terrible. You've been with me many times. So when I've done. You've thrown the cherries at me when there's three cherries.

Yeah. I said, I'm going to eat two of these, but not this third one. And then I whip it. It's sewn as hard as I can. And then you, as you do it, you're looking at the waiter and I'm not doing this to hurt her. I'm doing this to teach you. I want you to keep this pain in him.

Look at her face. Yes. And see this every time you're about to put three cherries on. See this face. I think it was an missed opportunity for you with the three cherries. You take one and you say to your friend that you're with, can you tie this in a knot with your tongue? And in the meantime, you take the other cherry, you tie it in a knot, sneakily put it in your

mouth, and then they can't do it and you're like, let me try. And then you take the third one, you put it in your mouth, you tie it aside, and then the one that you just tied, you then take that one out. You know what you are? You're a natural grifter. That is so grifty. It's so clear to me that we had an innocent riff going on and you immediately saw the way to exploit it as a grift.

And I'm looking, my wallet's gone. Sony, your pearls are missing. Oh my pearls. Yeah. Those beautiful Armenian pearls. Why am I hearing Marvin Hamish as the entertainer in my life? What is happening here? Oh my God.

Well, didn't you, at one point, you worked as a, got a job as a waitress because you want, like, I want to, and then you're like, I know, I can't, like, let me be a shot girl because you were good at talking people into buying shots. I would make them for everyone else, I'd leave a tiny bit for me that didn't have any alcohol in them. Again, a grift. And then I would walk around and I'm like, jealous shot? You're only a dollar.

And then people are like, I'm good. I'm like, I'll do one if you do one. And so they give me $2 and then I would take, oh, non-alcoholic. I see. I see. Brilliant. Listen, it's marketing. It's marketing.

But you know what? I'm a marketing genius. I feel like I could do that job. No. It was such a fun job. I know. Why couldn't I do that? I don't think anyone would want to buy a Jello shot from you.

I wouldn't have the same approach as you. My thing would be like, you should try it, it's Jello. It's alcohol. Come on. Come on. It's a job long job. But that was a fun real job. It would be very uptight and I would have a long story about how they have my dog prisoner.

You've got to do it. You would create all these scenarios every night and then people, although what if that ended up clicking and people go, have you been down to strap? There's some dude and it's, you know he's lying, but every night there's some insane story. He's so desperate. People are coming out just to see what story you make up every single night. Family kidnapped by ninjas.

Wow. So I guess we should probably buy a Jello shot off of you, right? That's right. That's right. Oh, this guy's so sad. Didn't you used to dance here? Yeah. Tasty, pasty.

Yeah. There's a question I have for you, Meredith, which is, first of all, you referenced these movies. What movies were you in? What would I know you from? Well, the very first movie I ever did, which you don't, you can hardly see me in, but it was the movie Annie that John Houston directed. Right.

It was actually a big dance audition and I brought my sister, who's a dancer, but she's super shy. She didn't want to be in it and it was like a 500 people, 500 girls were auditioning at this dance thing and the choreographer, the choreographer picked 30 girls and didn't pick me like you, you, you and you and he picked my sister. And so they were filming at the Columbia lot and all the girls are dancing and I'm like the day of their film, after they've rehearsed all summer, I went to watch the, and I was just sitting there like forlorn.

And John Houston walked by and he looked at me and he's like, we need another orphan. You come on. And they put me in the rags and dirt on my face and then I ended up being in it and then ended up having more part in it and, and anyway, that was little, but then. How would you like to be an orphan? I think you would be a fantastic, struggling, weighty. They used to say that to people and they would think, are you going to murder my parents? How would you like to be an orphan?

Leave my parents alone. That was super little, but then I did a movie for Disney when I was 14 called The Journey of Natty Gann. Oh yeah. About a little girl during the depression, traveling the country with a wolf and her dad and it's. You like, your era is depression era, Annie's depression era. I am really good just covered in dirt.

That's my favorite. Like I'm going to be dirty Cinderella for Halloween. Slutty Cinderella. No. Cinder dirty poor Cinderella. And last year I was a mechanic with, I like being dirty. My favorite roles are the dirty roles. I would like a slutty dirty Cinderella.

A really slutty Cinderella who's also kind of covered in dirt and I'm like, oh, I bet you're all dirty. I'll get you clean. But she's like, I've always called her, she's like the Tom weights of Disney princesses. Yeah. Like she's a Disney princess that's eating cold beans out of a can and smoking and. Yeah. And then I just can't believe that you were directed by John Houston.

You were directed by someone who directed Humphrey Bogart. That's one of those things where every now and then there'll be a fact like, did you know that. You want to hear a good fact. I just shook hands with someone who shook hands with someone who shook hands with Lincoln. Like, you know, she's about to blow your mind. Okay. Let's hear.

You can tell the fact. No, no, no, you tell it because it's cut. It sounds a bit. This is true. Go ahead. I was the last person to see Orson Welles alive. So you killed him. You know, he was stabbed to death.

I killed him. And a woman, an orphan was seen fleeing with a knife. With a wolf. On Wolfback. I might not have been the last person. Wait, so explain that. Yes. When I was fifth.

So I did that movie, The Journey of Natigan, and it was very well received. And I did all these talk shows back then, one of which happened to be the Merv Griffin show. And I was on the Merv Griffin show the same night as Orson Welles. And we were hanging out in the green room and talking and everything. And I was, and Merv Griffin was like, how about Orson Welles, huh? And now I'm, I'm 15. My favorite movie is Breakfast Club.

Like Allysheed. He's my favorite actress at the time. Right. You don't care about Orson Welles. I didn't know. I didn't know anything. And he's like, how about Orson Welles? I was like, oh, yeah.

And he's like, what's your favorite movie? And I was like, you know what? I just love all those old movies. I just didn't know what the fuck to say. With Orson Welles looking few to say, Citizen Kane undoubtedly. Anyway. What's your favorite movie that starts with Citizen Kane? Did you enjoy my voice work in the Transformers film?

So anyway, the show was over. We were talking backstage and he, he, he lit, I, maybe I'm romanticizing this, but I feel like he looked at me and he was like, you're going to be a great actress one day kid or something like that. Yeah. It felt like I got. Or Strike Me Dead. Yeah.

Oh, I'm going to hell. Oh. Anyway, then he got in his car. So maybe the limo driver was the last. And then he was dead the next morning. Yeah. It could have been the poison. It could have been Bogdanovich's song or something.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just saw a young talent earlier, Peter, that is going to be, is going to rip this town to shreds. I'm going to write a movie for her. I know a town, a field, where peas grow every, you know, I, I believe my show may have killed George Plimpton. What?

Yeah. And you mentioned Martha Plimpton earlier. Yeah. Wait a minute. I don't know if they're related. I believe they are. I believe they are. Yes.

Because Martha Plimpton's Keith Carradine's daughter. Well, now I'm all confused. Yeah. You know, now it's just this Gordian knot that will never escape. All I can tell you is that George Plimpton, who I loved and adored, used to do little weird bits for us every now and then on the show. And it was just marvelous to have George Plimpton, the great author of Raccoon Tour. Oh my God.

What a life that guy lived. Yeah. I met everybody and seen everybody and he was kind of a zealot. He'd been everywhere. He's in the background of every photo and he would do little bits for our show on late night. And then I think we got him to do one bit and then it needed some narration. And one of the writers who was just very anal kept making him go over it and over it and

over it in the booth, I think a couple of times. And then I think he was, I mean, I'm probably exaggerating, but he left the voiceover booth after having to do it like five times, went home and passed away. Oh. And the next day I was like, I was saying to the writer, you killed George Plimpton. You're a murderer. And he was like, no, I just hadn't do it three times and I said, what's wrong with one take? You know, you don't make him do three takes.

You are the Meredith Salinger to his Orson Welles. You took him off this earth. Is it true that Orson Welles, as he left the room, said, well, off to die now? Isn't that a beautiful voice he has? Yes. It's a French, San-Bain bottle to the California. I remember I had this book of haunted places in America and they'd break down my cities. And apparently, Sweet Lady Jane's is, you know, they have the mirrors on the back wall,

the whole back wall. You're talking about the restaurant. The restaurant on Melrose, Sweet Lady Jane, it's a bakery, and these are mirrors. And the legend is sometimes employees see his ghost in that mirror. Orson Welles' ghost? Orson Welles, because he would come in and have lunch. And so I went in there one day and there's an older woman that works, and I'm like, hey, I'm reading in this book about, apparently, you guys can see Orson Welles' ghost in the

mirror. And she goes, I've never seen his ghost, but he used to come in here for lunch. And you know, the Sweet Lady Jane cake, the famous cake they make. It's a giant cake. Yeah. He would order one of those and sit with a pot of coffee and eat the entire cake and drink the pot of coffee. That was his lunch.

Oh. And all of his screenplays at that point were just about cake. The cake slides down the gullet. It's just called Citizen Cake, which is a wonderful news film. Oh my God. Yes. Oh my Lord. But that idea that they were, and everyone's sitting there like, it's Orson Welles over

there. He's just eating, he just ordered a whole cake and he's just, do we take a picture of him? What do we do? This is insane. Yeah. Now everybody has a camera on them. Everything is documented.

At all times. Yes. If anything bad happens, there's 35 different angles on it. Correct. And it can all be repurposed as we found out. We got invited to the Vanity Fair Oscar party a couple of years ago. And really quick story, we're in line because to get in, you have to go down this photo line.

We would have been happy to just go in. Then what? You got to go to the photo line. It's a red carpet line and there's three little circles on it at the Vanity Fair Oscar thing. The celebrity is supposed to go to the first circle and there's a set of photographers that take your picture there. Then you move to the second circle and then those photographers, so we were about to step

on to the first circle when they go, do you mind if these people go right in front of you? It's Kim and Kanye. Oh. Kim Kardashian, Kanye West. They go in front of us. The photographers go berserk. They go berserk on there on the first circle.

They moved to the second circle. They put us on the first circle. No, not yet. What? No, they didn't put us on the first circle yet. Okay, hang on. You tell the story. They went to the second circle.

Everyone's taking their pictures. They go, we're still kind of waiting, and then Kylie Jenner comes and cuts in front of us and then she goes on the first circle. So we're just waiting and watching this madness. Then she goes to the second circle and the publicist says to the two of us, hey, you guys, okay, you're two and go to the first circle. Meanwhile, we're looking at the photographers in front of us and they're all looking at Kylie.

No one is taking pictures. No one's looking at us. Then she goes to the third circle. They're still looking at her. Then she gets off the third circle and they are looking at their phones to see their cameras to see if they got the shot. So all the pictures of us from the red carpet that day are like, are you guys going to be like, what are you guys doing?

We're all laughing because I started going, ah, ahem, ah, ahem, hello, basic cable actor here, and to their credit, some of them started laughing because it was like, you have to follow the, how do you, you know. Oh, but the funny thing was then later when Kim and Kanye announced their divorce, somebody got... They took footage from that night of them on the red carpet doing it at that moment. They took footage of them and for some reason they walked in front of us and someone got a screen grab of, is it, does it say famous couple files for divorce or something?

Yeah, yeah. Or it says filing for divorce. Oh yeah, it says filing for divorce. But it's, Meredith and I perfectly framed. We're centered and Kim and Kanye, you can't even see them. They're just a blur walking. Are we? It just looks like...

That's how I, I thought you guys were through. That's, yeah. And I even, then I tweeted, I was like, is this how I find out Meredith? But it was, everything can be recontextualized. They can take any photo. They can take any story. They don't. And then the, the reface app, the deep fakes and all that stuff.

Oh my, some of those. I know that people are so amused by the deep fake stuff where they'll, there's a guy that does the Tom Cruise deep fake stuff. That terrifies me. No, because... A politician. Well, also forget someone doing an impression or anything. They can digitally take our faces.

Yeah. I'm going to be, after I die, my kids are going to sell my image and I'll be put on the body of a really incredible porn star. And I will be in a lot of pornographic films. Wait, you're just saying that to cover for the fact that you actually did the porn. So you're like, this is a deep fake. It's not real. Well, when you see this guy's body, you'll know that my head was put on there.

Rippling muscles, olive skin. Yeah. Actually, Conan, I agree. When I die, someone will take my face and make it look like I did this weird porn and they'll make the film look like it was shot in the late 80s, even though it clearly wasn't. Meanwhile, all your fans online are like trying to do it right now and they're going to start putting it on the internet. You know what?

I don't feel bad about it, Brian, because we did what we had to do to get into the business. Yeah. Damn it. You do what you gotta do. I mean, not everyone gets a John Huston grabbing you off a straight corner. I know. John Huston said to you, I'll make you an orphan. Some people get a nod from John Huston.

Some of us have to be in a knock-off movie, The Journey of Naughty Gan. There's a million ways into it, it doesn't matter. There's that movie, and then there's The Journey of Naughty Gan, which is very, very slutty. I didn't make that audition. I flinched when they brought out the bucket of squid. No, I have a question for you guys. You do this podcast called Did You Get My Text?

Yeah. And you live together. You are married, and yet your primary mode of communication is texting. It is and always has been. Yes. Well, we know that that's how you met, but you think that that would wane once you're in physical proximity. If anything, okay, here's how crazy it got, because we're in the same house, but I'll

be in my office and I'll think of something. I don't want to walk upstairs and tell her I'll text her. And one night, we were in bed and our backs were to each other, our backs, because she had found this perfect position. But I found this amazing picture, I'm like, Meredith, you got to look at this. And she's like- And he's telling me, now I have to undo my perfect position and lean over and go to look at the thing on his side. I'm like, I'm so comfortable.

Can you either put it in front of my face, please, or just text it to me? Because she had gotten- You're in the same bed. In the same bed. You can't swivel your neck. No. No. And her, by the way, in her defense, her position involved like five pillows. She had arranged a- Listen, I've got big boobs and long hair and my back hurts, and

I have to like get everything into its spot without it being uncomfortable. There's stuff to deal with. I mean, arranged four boob pillows, five neck, but it was a huge, it was a whole thing. Yeah. It was a lattice work, if you will. It would have been easier if you just did it and leaned over and showed me. So what happens is you're in the same house, sometimes you're even in the same bed as each other, or the same house, and you're texting each other.

And so your only way of really communicating is you get together with the microphone. And you record a podcast where you go through the text. We go over, what was this? What did this mean? We get the one about this one. Yes. Well, can we talk about that now? Yeah.

And so then we talk about it. It's the age we live in, man. We're commenting on our time. This will be a great artifact in 500 years to explain these times we live in where everyone's always on their phone, always texting each other, when they could be talking to each other. Correct. It's better for us.

That we don't speak to each other. It's better that it's only our way. If all my ways text to me or she knows I'm out and about and she'll want me to stop off at the grocery store, and it's always to get a product that doesn't exist, or is not readily available. So she'll say, can you just stop off at the Ralph's on the way home? And she said, you know, what I want is I want Sultanstall non-zink shortening. And I'll say, what's Sultanstall?

And she'd go like, well, it's an English brand. It's made actually near the border with Wales, but it's got to be non-zink. And the other ones are orange. This one has a blue stripe. And I'll go and actually I'll find an aisle that says shortening. Then I'll find another aisle that says European shortening, and it's not there. And then they'll have one Sultanstall, but it's got now with more zinc. And so, and then I come home and I say, this doesn't exist.

And she'll be like, yeah, I thought it was a long shot. Oh, I just spent two hours there. I was questioning people. So you rolled the dice with my time is what you did. Like let's see if it happens. Yes. And she just wants, I think she just doesn't want me around. Well, can you go get me a philosophy that's made of licorice?

What? A one-wheel bicycle from the turn of the century made of licorice that has a bell and the Kaiser's face is on the bell. What? Go find it. I'm sorry. What? I have a similar thing with Meredith where I call it Manchurian candidate where if she

sees a food item depicted in media either as a drawing and it sparks something, she must have that food item immediately. Well, if she sees it, get it. I need it now. I'm an advertisers target audience constantly, but also like Alice came in our room. This is back when she was eight, she came in the room and she had her jammies on and there were trunks of donuts on them. And then I got her.

You were taking her to school. And I'm going to school. And I'm like, make sure you bring them some donuts. She just called me. I need donuts. I'm like, why? Because I saw them on the jammies. I need the donuts now.

And so there have been times where she'll see some. So if there had been a turducken depicted on her jammies, you'd have said, I need a turducken immediately. Exactly. So also she'll get these nostalgic cravings and I will go too far where she'll like, oh my God, I want a Twinkie. So I'll buy a box of Twinkies and then she'll have one and go, I just needed the one. I got it.

Like, I think that it's what she wants now. There's a recording studio in Los Angeles that we both record at. And so he was saying he was recording at the studio and I was like, I know in the kitchen there, they have Twinkies. I was like, can you just bring me home a Twinkie? And you did. And then you had to go there another time and then you brought me home like two. And then you went to the store and bought a box.

And then for my birthday, he had this amazing chef like make me a freaking cake man out of Twinkie thing. I'm like, it's disgusting. I only wanted one. It was the benign version of making a kid like smoke a pack of cigarettes so he doesn't smoke a friend. Oh, you're going to smoke a hundred in front of me, kid. Well, it worked.

And you're never going to do it again. Yeah. But she does have these weird, they're not even cravings. It's like a trigger mechanism. It's impulse. I have no impulse. You know what I am? My weakness is like an REI.

Any kind of thing that comes from REI, I have to have. Hey, REI. I just want to have it. Conan O'Brien likes your stuff. Hey. I think you should probably sponsor him. I think a lot of you. I think a lot of you.

I am very, I put together these go bags in case of the apocalypse. Oh, dear God. And they are so. Heavy. How on earth are we going to? Way overboard in what? So which in your go bag? Tell us.

Every thing. It's way too much stuff. I have. You have a lot of comic books. I bet your go bag would be very little, there'd be like no food or water, but it'd be like, this is the Iron Man before Tony Stark had his heart repaired. He made three of them, one for each of us and Alice. And when I tell you they're like 80 pounds each and they each have a hatchet, a hatchet.

Oh, you got it. I'm giving a hatchet to Alice. It's a mini hatchet with a hollow handle that has other tools in it. Oh my God. It's a multi tool, it's a little hatchet. I love that. I got it. REI.

I love it. Oh, you'd love the hatchet. Oh, I'd love it. Oh, God. I would keep just, I would empty out the tools and I would just, I would put rum in the handle of the blacks. I have an, I, in each one, there's an empty whiskey flask that in my mind once goes it down, I will fill each with whiskey because you got to have whiskey with you.

In my mind, I'm going to be cutting a bullet out of someone. So here, take a shot of this. Here we go. I have packed equipment that I'm not a qualified to use. Right. I mean, by the way, there was a huge blackout and I have these little mini generators that they're solar powered and you also crank them to do energy, but I, but then when they power one, I'm like, I can charge my phone with this generator and then I couldn't get it

to work because I hadn't read all the instructions. So I own, there's equipment in these things that I don't. Also there's a, I got one of those Leatherman, the multi, the Leatherman multi tools. Those are fantastic. I have many of those. Oh, I got the biggest one. I was messing around with that. I opened up the saw.

There's a saw you can saw. And I can't figure out how to close it again. Oh no. That's a saw just sticking up that I can't put in the bag because it'll cut everything else open. I have a life straw you can like drink contaminated water through and it like. That's a good idea. That's actually the best idea.

You know what it is? They have a straw where you drink it and whatever liquid you're sucking up, it turns it into chocolate milk. So you can literally be sucking up liquid uranium on a spill and it becomes a liquid stuff. REI has one where you could just press the buttons on it and it like, if you want Coke, if you want. It's like you just choose the flavor and yeah, REI sells that one.

Strawberry quick, whatever you want. Oh, I love strawberry quick. I mean, I have friends who know how to, that have taken like EMT courses and taught themselves how to fly helicopters for God's sakes, you know, in case, but and I, I have a, I have a multi, I have a multi tool that I can't close. That's going to be my use in the apocalypse. My wife was really laughing at me cause a bunch of years ago I decided, I need to know how to ride a motorcycle cause that's a skill that you need to know how to, you need to

do. So I took a motorcycle course and I learned how to ride a motorcycle and really liked it. And I kept thinking, this is going to come in so handy. And, and I now I'm, there's part of me that's, this sounds terrible, but I'm like, bring it on cause I want to jump on a really cool, I want to show people that was in a waste of time. Yes.

And I want to be the guy, you know, in the, in the, uh, walking dead. With a trap door everywhere. You're the only one who can get through. I'm the one that can, that can weave my way through the zombies because I've, you know, I can do that. You want to be Norman Reedus. I want to be Norman Reedus. Yes.

So many ways. Yeah, I get that. But a Norman Reedus who shaves constantly. But like, I have this weird, I have these, um, very occasional anxiety dreams cause I don't know how to drive a stick shift car. So in my dream, there is some kind of disaster, but the only car that's there is a stick shift and I don't know how to drive it. And like, I remember watching, there's a movie called trucker, a little indie movie with

Michelle Monahan who learned how to, she qualified on an 18 wheeler, she plays a female trucker and I'm like, I need to get a movie where I learn how to drive, like, just like have that skill. I love that you need to get a movie that teaches you that thing. You're not going to learn it unless you have a reason. No, it's so funny. Like Patton was like, I'd like to know how to make chocolate chip cookies from scratch. I need to get a movie.

Right. Make chocolate chip cookies. You know, you want to do a movie where you have to play an amazing piece on the piano. You don't want to take piano lessons for 75,000 years. You just want someone to actually teach you that one song so that you can just wow your friends. Yeah. Yeah.

I remember I did a movie where I had to be a blackjack dealer and I was so nervous about, I didn't want to seem like I didn't know what I was doing. So I sat with the dealer for a few hours and he showed me how to cut and, you know, deal it all out. And then when they show the movie, it's all, they just show me from here up. That's not fair. And then they would cut to, they cut to another guy's hands doing that. I was like, what the?

Oh my God. What did I do with the work? The guy who did it was black. Yeah. It's you going, sure. Yeah. I'll give you that. Yeah.

Sure. Yeah. Crazy. What if it had been a woman with like very feminine fingers? Yeah. That would have been glad. I would have, I would have taken it. My hands would have been weird.

That would have been great. So, Meredith, how do you handle the fact that I am on this, I'm not going to get too specific, but I'm on this, there's this text chain that Patton is on and Patton kindly invited me into it. And it's, I think it's called the nerd thread. Is that what you call it? There's two. I have a text thread with all my comedians.

And then there's an email chain with the biggest old Hollywood and history nerd. That's what I'm on. That's the one I'm on. And these people know everything. Oh my God. Now, I have areas of sick, deep, deep interest, but I'm talking, first of all, it's, I don't think you people do anything else. Oh.

I'm constantly, and I don't want to out anybody else who's on it, but everybody's very funny, very sharp. Yes. But literally, someone will mention a character actor like Bert Mustin, who was an old man. I'm just, like, I just know some weird, I have little weird pockets of Bert Mustin played the old man in every 70s sitcom for a while. And if you saw a picture of me go like, oh right, that guy. And he literally was about 95 and they would always, he was on, you know, all in the family.

He was always the old, old, old man who'd come in. And someone will mention Bert Mustin, somehow that will come up, suddenly hundreds of people on this thread are chiming in with weird arcane information about this person. And they've got photographs of, check out Bert in 1932, when he was a ventriloquist. You know, and suddenly, and I'm, people have said to me sometimes, hey, Conan, you don't chime in that much. And I'll say, because it's like putting your hand into a blender. If your hand isn't moving as fast as the blender, you're going to get shredded.

Right. And I get intimidated. I cannot keep up with you guys. There are times when I just lean back and watch, there are people on that thread that can sling clippings and photographs at the snap of a finger. Yes. I don't know what they have asked you. Maybe they have access to Google.

No, no, no, no. And you just go to images. I can do it. No, this is, these, there are clipping services you can subscribe to where you get stuff you don't just get on a Google image search like a Nexus, Nexus, Lexus search or something like that. Yeah. That you have to have a subscription to.

And these guys, like any, any old, any old celebrity dies, they have like newspaper clippings of a dinner theater thing they did back in the seventies. Yes. They have what? They have weird appearances they made. And I swear to God, I could randomly type into this chain, just randomly, hey, wonder if Dean Martin ever wrote an elephant completely naked. That would be like a second later.

There's a black and white photograph of Dean Martin in 1958 naked writing an elephant. And they'll be like, you mean this paparazzi shot when he's goofing around on the set of you know, all aboard. You're like, how did that, how did, well, some of these people, somebody made a joke about Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis and someone had pictures that Dean and Jerry had taken as a goof. They're both nude in a shower together. That was upsetting.

Fully frontal nude. I'm like, wait, in the fifties that like didn't get around, but this guy has them. And here they are. Yeah. I was like, how do we have. I wasn't prepared for that. No, not me. I was.

My daughter leaned over my shoulder and said, daddy, what are you looking at? It was, yeah, the stuff that they find the weird, these weird, Mort Sol just passed away and. Mort Sol. He was in 1937. Yeah. Yeah. But someone had a clip of a talk show he did.

I guess it was a talk show that he hosted that never aired where he basically started screaming at this guy. I saw that clip. Oh my. These clips are fascinating. Wow. And I will sometimes get drawn into something. My weirdest experience was I was doing a show, shooting one of my travel shows, and I was

in. Africa. Africa. I remember this. I remember it so clearly. And there's this famous, there was this act that was big back in the thirties and forties. People don't know them today nearly as well as they know the Marx brothers, you know, or some of the other brother, but they're called the Ritz brothers and they were quite

well known and I went down this rabbit hole of my feelings about the Ritz brothers. And I'll never forget, I am, I'm lying on the floor in Africa and it's three in the morning where I am and I can't sleep and I've been shooting all day and I'm lying on the floor and I'm getting very impassioned about how we can't judge this now in the context of the 1940s, you know, this work was quite indelibly good. And so we have to keep in mind, and I'm going on and on about Harry Ritz and Harry Ritz really did influence Sid Caesar and you've got to understand that Harry Ritz. And I just thought, you guys sucked me into this thing.

I think even at one point, one of the responses on the thread was Conan, aren't you in Africa right now? How are you writing these paragraphs? Aren't you literally sleeping in a tent out on the savannah? What is happening? Yeah, I will start going down these rabbit holes and she, you can see just, oh God, here we go. That's what I'm curious, is your perspective on, you come by and Patton is going down,

I mean, I'm just getting seconds of it here and there and engaging occasionally. He's always in this world. Yes, he has an encyclopedic brain. It's shocking. It's incredible. But we will be doing our podcast and I'll just say one thing and then he'll just go down this rabbit hole of what you were just talking about. And literally after a while, I'm just like, and then he's like, what do you think about

that? And I'm like, I actually, you know what, I tuned out. I'm sorry. We're doing a podcast. You're supposed to pay attention. I'm like, it's so boring to me. My old thing is you leave and make a sandwich and come back. Yeah.

Well, what'll happen is I'll start off on a rabbit hole. Well, you know, funny you mentioned Dean Martin because at one point he was in talks. See Francis Coppola had the rights to Doctor Strange and then I go on and then after like two minutes she'll go, some sort of what Dean Martin like, like you just had the beginning part. I'm not calling any of your other bullshit. He yelled at me. Because I was like, wait, what?

Yeah. And this is gold. You're not paying attention to this gold. He's like, this is our podcast. You're supposed to like listen and I'm like, it's so boring to me. Yes, because I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know. I just tuned out.

I'm sorry. Yeah. And that's half of our podcast. Well, that's when you have to call me. Yeah. I love how I say call. Call. That's how out of it I am.

You should pick up a Bakelite telephone and call me. Bakelite. Oh, I love Bakelite. I love Bakelite. I love the Backgammon pieces. Andy Richter years ago gave me, he found this company that takes old Bakelite phones from the 40s, the big, heavy ones with the dials that make that cool, and they repurpose them. So they have modern electronics inside, but it's the old phone.

And so I have it on my desk and it rings and goes like, but the thing is, I'll be on Zoom calls talking business or with different people on Zoom work, you know, different stuff we have to work out. But because my Bakelite phone is right there, I keep picking it up and going, hello, hello Rayleigh 525. And they're like, you did bits with the phone last time. Put it down. It's not that funny.

But it feels so good in your hand. I can't help it. I love it. You gotta wrap this up. Oh, no. This has been too much fun. What happened? We just did a ton of time.

Time happened, man. Time happened, man. This is what happens when you have a guest on your show and you're not just talking to your wife. Oh, God. This is a funny guest. Time goes by. I'm like, come on.

Let's get, this is slogging along. What's happening? Did you get my text? Check out Did You Get My Text. I love you guys and I really, I'm really happy that you've found a way to communicate face to face. That's nice. Basically, you're using it, you find a way to monetize your time where you're talking

to each other. It's a whole new level of our relationship. You know, things are really getting intimate when you have to break for commercials. Oh, this was so fun. Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us on. This was awesome. Yay.

Sona, I ran into you recently and you told me that your mother said something very special about our children. Yes. So we make a joke that, you know, that your daughter is going to marry one or both my boys. Right. And then I was telling my parents. I was like, oh yeah, this is the thing we were talking about.

My mom and dad both looked at me very seriously and they're like, oh, like a, and they said a word in, and I think either Armenian or Turkish and they're like, yeah, this happens in the villages. They arranged marriages at infancy and then I asked her more about it and the direct translation is a, is a bassinet engagement. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah.

Like the parents are like, you got a baby. I got a baby. They'll get married when they're older and then it just. Yes. I mean, arranged marriages obviously have existed for thousands of years and I think they still exist. Yes. They're from some cultures.

Yeah. So, and what's strange is they work out a lot. Did you know that? I mean, you'd think. Yeah. But, but I've heard often people say, you know, actually in a strange way because you, you know who you're going to marry for most of the time you're growing up. It's no secret.

Yes. I know it could probably go very, very wrong, very off the rails, but sometimes it works out really nice. And I'm thinking, look at all these kids today with their apps, all the misery, do I swipe left? Do I swipe right? How is this going to go? I just, I've dated 15 people on an app recently and none of them went well.

Arranged marriages. There should be an arranged marriage app, an arranged marriage app. And I bet you at first people would say this is terrible, but then it would blow up, destroy all these other, you know, bumblebee and happy tree and fiddle DD. Those would all be gone instantly. Who's arranging them? Who's doing it? Your mother.

No, an app. Oh. Well, okay. Your mother could do it or you could get a really sophisticated logarithm. But I, your mother. Yeah. Your mother, we could say it's a sophisticated logarithm, but it's really just your mom. Yeah.

It's your mom is on the app with you. No, no, no. Your mom, Sona, links everybody in the world together in an arranged marriage. Your mother specifically, Nadia, Nadia Mossassian is in a room with a headset on and she is pairing at very fast speeds, that face and that face, bang, this one and that one, bang, this one and that one, bang. She has those Tom Cruise gloves from Minority Report. Yes.

She's got those special gloves and she's just swiping and you know what, you get back this statistic, people would say, this is insane, you'd find out 97% of them are happy and they married and they were happy for 50 years together. Do I need to like prepare a dowry for my daughter or both of your sons? Yeah, you do. Well, which one? I mean, that's all. I don't have a dowry.

She did? I think so. Yeah. Your mother, what do you mean? What was her dowry? She had like a chest full of stuff. What? What?

What was in there? Like a Pez dispenser and some. Yeah, like dentist toys. Yeah. What did she have in there? Well, it's very old school, but you also know when I married Tak that in order to get out of the house, his best man had to pay my brother for me to leave the house. This is amazing.

This is amazing. Sona had to be purchased. What? Yes. Sona, this is true. Sona had to be purchased on her wedding day. Well, that's really essentially what it is. Yeah.

How much? The, the. I don't know. I'll double it. Well, that would be $40. We're going to get that kind of cash. No, it was more than $20. And you know what?

Close. But anyway, they just had an old, they just had an old phone with the cord wrapped around it. That was broken. No, Sona, that was part of the tradition and you were pissed at the time because you were a modern forward thinking woman and you said, this is disgusting. I'm not going to take part in this. And then they did it.

And it was actually kind of sweet and goofy. I mean, it was just a, they didn't actually buy you a horse. It was just a funny little ritual like, you know, that, that has existed for thousands of years. It was a fun little throwback to a horribly barbaric tradition. Yes. Yeah. 100%.

But yeah, obviously we're going to leave the house. I mean, we had all the, like, we paid all the deposits and stuff. So we were going to get married, but I think that there's something about, I, I hated it. But yeah, everyone. I loved your, I loved your wedding. And I think you can go online and see me dancing like a madman with your father. Yes. If you're interested, I danced up a storm at that wedding.

Yeah. People were throwing money on you. Yeah. Yeah. I got really excited until I realized they were all ones and I'm like, oh, great. I'm a stripper again. We were just paying Sona's brother to get you to leave. Yeah.

They were, they were trying to get me out. Yeah. Those were good times. Well, this is fascinating that your mother didn't take it as a joke and really will marry off Gourley's daughter to one of your boys, Mikey and Charlie, which, which is, uh, which is the one that you think is, you would marry off? Like you get to make that call or you? Yeah.

Who's it going to be? I, that's a good question. We, I don't know. Who's the, who's the, of the two of them, which one's the real player? Uh, I think I would have to say Charlie or, you know what, but Mikey's also like sensitive. Like, no, boo, no, no, Mikey, Mikey's the one who's going to, he's the, he's the catch. I'm sorry. Yeah.

Mikey's going to be in there. His whole life. He's going to be like, God, gee, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it's a good idea. Mikey's going to be like, Hey, what's the problem? Check her out. Yeah.

My daughter likes a bad boy. Yeah. Yeah. Up on my tricycle. We'll go for a ride. Yeah. My daughter loves baby Andrew Dice Clay. Yeah.

Hey, it could be, it could be Doc. It's just the mouse ran up the clock. The mouse ran up my cock. Oh, what does that do? Yeah. I like that you're, that Mikey's a filthy little Andrew Dice Clay. Little Miss Muffet. Little Miss Muffet sat on a tuffet eating her guts and way.

Oh, hey, it's time for you to go to sleep, Mikey. Yeah. You got to cut it out, Mikey. Charlie, that's his business, not yours. Oh, he upsets me. Some of those rhymes are misogynistic. I wrote a little poem about his rhymes. Oh, Mikey, your words, they hurt some.

But you both have to go to bed. Look at him over there with this poems. Put away the pen. Emerson, what's going on here? Those are your kids exactly. Yeah. At four months. I'd steer clear of both of them if I were you, Gourly.

Yeah. All right. We just, there you have it. I savagely lit into two children who are barely five months old. Oh, what layer of, what circle of hell? I keep finding lower and lower depths of Dante's Inferno. I just found a new low one. Wow, Conan, really tore, tore into those two five months old.

Right now they're just quietly spitting up on each other, doing no one any harm. Yeah. They're practicing rolling over. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Or babies.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourly. Produced by me, Matt Gourly. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solotarov, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Year Wolf. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Will Beckton. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan?

Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco production, in association with Year Wolf.