Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Penn Badgley

Episode Date: January 2, 2023

Actor Penn Badgley feels the dull echo of imposter syndrome about being Conan O’Brien’s friend.Penn sits down with Conan to discuss his journey to Hollywood as a child actor, the value of educating yourself, and THAT scene from his Netflix series YOU. Conan shares his love of Gossip Girl and pitches an alternate version as a sketch. Stick around for the end, where Conan and the team try on Tracy Morgan's favorite cologne.

Hi, my name is Penn Badgley, and I feel the dull echo of imposter syndrome at the prospect of being Conan O'Brien's friend. Really? Yeah. You feel like you'd be an imposter? I just like have to be honest about how, I mean I grew up watching you, and like I said when I shook your hand. Oh my God, hold on a second.

Sona just walked in, Sona. And you know what Penn was just going on about what an honor it is to meet me, and you interrupted and now it's probably out of his head. Yeah, no, you're welcome. Hey, Conan O'Brien here, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, sitting here with my gang. Yeah. Yeah, we're talking Sona, Matt.

We are talking Sona. Yeah, we're gang. Yeah, we are gang. You're my posse. Ride or die. Yeah. You're my group. Ride or die.

I'm excited. We have a terrific program today, I believe. Is it okay to call it a program? I know we've discussed this before. Yeah, it's a program. Yeah. Old habits die hard. They really do.

I think you just, yeah, I just like that we're gang. Do you think we're intimidating? Yes. I don't think we are. Very intimidating. I think you're intimidating to some people. You think he's intimidating? Yeah.

Not like as a person, but you know, because you're, you are who you are, I think you can sometimes be very intimidating to like people on the street. Well, also I'm a tall drink of water. Yeah. But you're like a skinny tall, you know? Yeah, but well muscled, chiseled and... I was intimidated the first time I met you. What?

No, you weren't? Yes, I was. Really? Sure. I came in the room, you were kind of a wise ass. I don't remember you being... I don't remember being a wise ass. You really weren't.

No. You were a nice guy. Yeah. I got over it very quickly. You know what? I don't need to. He'll say that I think there are known people obviously whose persona is intimidating. And so I don't think they get approached that much.

And I'm quite certain that I have one of the least intimidating personas of any known person because people aren't afraid to come up, do you know what I mean? And then if you're, you look at people like a Robert De Niro or a Sean Penn, I think movie people are different because you see them blown up on a big screen. Yeah, but you've seen those people violent. Yeah. You're like a, you know, you're a funny guy. Well, thank you.

You know? I didn't think you enjoyed my humor. Oh. Thank you. I don't know if I enjoy it. Okay. But you say technically I'm in the category of funny guy. You're in the category of a funny guy.

I think that there's a difference between like, you know, bad boys who like, and then there's... Well, what was that bad boy doing? Yeah, what was that? Is he driving a mud truck? What is that? Yeah. I'm a bad boy. Now I'm going to get in my truck made of mud.

Just hold. The wheels are just sloshing off on the sides, falling apart. You get two feet. Didn't get as far in my mud truck as I thought I would. Why did I use this for a bank robbery? No. So, yeah. I don't think I'm an intimidating presence.

So... I don't know. I think you are kind of... But I think you're... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. What an interesting conversation.

I don't know. I don't know. Back in the mud truck? You ever see Sona when she was in the debate society? And I just think, we find in favor of Sonam Obsession. It'd be great if you just used that. You argued in front of the Supreme Court, but wait a minute, so you think a woman's right to privacy defend that?

Well... Plus, he versus bad. Yeah. I think it's effective. It's very effective. It gets the job done. Yeah. I'm very excited about our guest today.

Oh, okay. We are. Yeah, I am. I like this fellow. He's a fine fellow. He's a chap. Who are you going to intro right now? I know.

You do. It's, you know what? It is stunning how little you prepare and how little you know. Who do you think this is? It's absolutely true. Do you guys prepare? Oh, yeah. We write everything.

This is all scripted. Yeah. Oh, no. We work very, very hard. I feel like sometimes you guys have meetings and you leave me out of it. I really do. Of course. We're trying to get stuff done.

I can contribute. I can have names. Who do you think today's episode guest is? Yeah. Do you have any idea who it could be? Not him. We already did it. Oh, I know who it is.

Who? It's Penn Badgley. Right. Because you've made a joke right before. Yes. I used to say, because I love just being stupid for no reason. So whenever Penn Badgley's name comes up, someone say, yeah, and then you're going to talk to Penn Badgley and I'll say more like Badge Penley.

And I kept doing that over and over and over again, so much so that my kids and I were watching an old gossip girl because we do watch those. They're really fun. The original from the 2000s. I did that joke so many times. Yeah. You know, Penn Badgley, more like Badge Penley. I did it so many times that I subconsciously thought that was his name and then I did the

same thing. And so my kids said, blah, blah, blah. And I went, yeah, more like Penn Badgley and they were like, oh my God, you just said his name correctly because you thought you were doing a bit, but you're only undoing the stupid bit you've done 50 times. I do that all the time, spoonerizing. And do you know your name spoonerized is Bonan O'Crien? Yeah, of course.

There's a name for doing that? Yeah. That's what my parents intended. That's how you were conceived. Okay, okay. Back off. Back off. Back off.

Back off. That's my mother. I don't go after Winifred. Who's Winifred? I don't know what you're talking about. Anyway. You're Gat Morley. Yeah, and you're Mona subsesian.

That's pretty good. Mona, Mona. What are you doing that? Why are you guys saying it like that? I don't know. I'm a creep. My name's Bonan O'Crien. And you're like shocked that I went in a creepy direction.

I didn't think I'd, I never thought I'd get that from Bonan. I never thought Mona would receive that kind of response. I'm like that when I see the Mona Lisa at the Louvre. I'm like, oh, Mona, Mona. Wait, you're like turned on by it? Yeah, very erotic name. Here we go. My guest today played Daniel Humphrey for six seasons in Gossip Girl.

Currently stars in the Netflix series You, which returns for a fourth season next year. He also co-hosts the podcast Podcrushed, available wherever you get your podcasts. Very excited to talk with this gentleman today. Ben Badzley, welcome. I'm a fan of this gentleman and I was liking, I will say he was ladling a little bit of gravy over me and I was enjoying every second of it. But I actually was trying to not be flattering. It's more like, in honor, sounds like such a platitude.

It's just nice to be here, I guess. Well, it's nice to have you here. It's nice to have you here. And during the pause you took, I can get someone who sounds like you to put in godlike, iconic. You're such a humble person. Conan, I have to tell you. Yeah. Nobody sounds like you.

Okay. Well, isn't there some way, Eduardo, isn't there some way that during the pause when Penn was thinking of what to say? No, Eduardo, be honest. Isn't there some way we can manipulate Penn's voice to say, you are my hero? There's a way. It won't be good. But there is a way.

Well, we could explain that he choked on a chip. He had it. He had it. He had it. He had it. He had it. He had it. He had it.

He had it. He had it. He had it. He had it. He had it. He had it. He had it. He had it.

And he choked. Yeah. And you are an inspiration. That's how gorely sounds. Yeah, exactly. I don't know why you turned into Yoda all of a sudden. be the low point of your day. You weren't lying.

What is wrong with you? The story. I'm sorry. You come crashing in late. I didn't know you were recording yet. And what music were you listening to? I was listening to Billie Eilish. Okay, well that's a good choice.

So I was enjoying my drive over here and then I was having a really great day until I walked into this room. I swear to God, I thought I heard music. I did too. I thought I was gracious. But I swear to God, I thought it was so subliminal. I thought I was falling in love with Penn Badgley.

Seriously, like I was looking at you and you were saying these nice things to me and I heard music and I thought, I'm in love with Penn Badgley, which I, you know, I'm sure a lot of people are. You know what, maybe it wasn't my phone and maybe you actually, I feel like you are. You've been talking about him a lot.

I have been talking, you know, we have a lot to get into, but I will say I have to confess upfront that my children are older than yours. I have two kids and my daughter is now 19 and my son is about to be 17, but it became a thing in our family a couple of years ago to watch the original Gossip Girl.

You're a Gossip Girl and we would watch it and it became our ritual and the kids, you know, because they were too young when it originally happened. And so we all kind of bonded over watching it together and then I would freak Sona out because here I am, a man well into my 80s and I would be at work and I would be talking about the plot line of Gossip Girl

and I know all the names. That's really surprising. And I know all this stuff and you would say, Conan, it's like, it's creepy that you know so much about what's happening. His TV knowledge is 1970s cop dramas and Gossip Girl. And Gossip Girl. And that's it, that's it.

That is really, yeah, okay, all right. I'm gonna tell you something. I'm gonna tell you something. It holds up, it holds up. That's good to hear. It holds up and you have moved on and... Have I? Yeah.

Yes, you have, I have certain obsessions, which is the breakfasts you guys have on that show. Right, yeah, the waffles. The waffles and you know, Rufus, your dad is always making what looks to be like a $1,700 four-seasons breakfast. You guys each take one little bite and then say, I gotta go and leave. You're right.

Every single time. Every single time. Every single time. And I'm looking at all this untouched, I mean, beautiful golden brown Belgian waffles, giant piles of strawberries, giant pictures of freshly squeezed orange juice. Yeah.

And... One man. One man did that. One man did that and he gave up his music career to do it. Yeah. But also clearly, and this ties into what I wanna talk about later on in the conversation.

I wanna talk about that. I wanna talk about that. I wanna talk about that. I wanna talk about that. It ties into what I wanna talk about later on in the conversation which is your podcast, Pod Crushed. One of the things that you talk about is people who are experiencing middle school

and being awkward and having all this anxiety and all of us felt a lot of that at that age. And it's really good to get the word out that that's how it is. And yet you first came to fame as part of this show that was showing people the most super confident. I mean... It did not permit for that.

No one had acne. No. Well, because we were all in our 20s. You are... That's right. I still had acne in my 20s, Pat. I don't know what your problem is. I had acne up until Obama's second term.

But no, but one of the things that what I watch now and clearly the show plays to almost the camp of it is I love watching the Chuck Bass character. He's literally calling people, you know, there's like a fireplace behind him and he's wearing a smoking jacket. Yeah, like he's 60 years old. Yeah, and he's telling people,

I've got controlling interests of Krillco Industries. I bought out your shares. You're through, see yourself out. Don't let the door hit you in the ass. He's 15 and he's got a PSAT tomorrow. And I've always, I love it. I can't get enough of it. I just love all of it.

I really like this perspective. I need this perspective. Well, you know, it's really great because your character is the sort of dose of reality. You're constantly looking around saying this is in many ways. That's true, that's true. Now, this is the thing that I grappled with a lot

when I was on the show and I was clear with it about the writers and I was open conversation, I guess. The thing about Dan Humphrey that it seems is that the whole point of the show is that it discovered that it wasn't worried about the real world. It wasn't worried about- Oh no, I do think the show has a sense of humor about itself clearly. Absolutely.

You know, they're clearly enjoying the fact that, no, it's all what we wish we could have been at that age. Including those of us on the show, yeah. Yeah, exactly. No, it's true. Yeah, it's completely aspirational in that sense that, yeah, it's fantasy. The first time that I ran across that was 90210

when that was coming along and it was such a big deal and I remembered thinking, I know why this is so appealing to everybody. It's all what we wish high school could have been in some ways, do you know what I mean? I wish if I knew then what I know now, if I knew how to talk to someone of the opposite sex, if I had a credit card, if I had a decent car,

maybe things would have been different. We all know that they wouldn't have been. They wouldn't have been. No, but see, this is where, you know, I think like there's levels to it. And so what you just described, I think makes it, it's the charm of it. And then I think what I grappled with during it

was like also, you know, what is the net effect? It can't be measured, but what is the net effect of, cause it's just one, it's one drop in this bucket of storytelling we've seen for the last, I don't know, 50 years or something about, you know, like glamorized, glorified youth. And it, and it, and it, and actually, I mean, I'm actually, I don't feel like I'm here

to really promote my podcast. It feels silly, but I do have one. And that is what, that is what we talk about. We've been- But I've been listening to your podcast and it occurred to me that there is a, it fascinates me, there is a connection to, you know, some of the work that you were doing, you know,

just getting started in your career. It is almost a whole sub-genre of entertainment, which is we're going to present 17 year olds who go to high school and we're going to show them in this way that we all kind of wish we could have been. You know, but, or want to be currently, if you're like in the writer's room and you're maybe 35 and you're, cause really that is the,

like the way they all behave emotionally in relationship. It's far closer to that of like a 30 something or a late 20s, you know, in New York and or LA, you know, it's that it really is, I think the sort of fantasy behavior of how, of how adults want to be. You know, if you saw actual 15 and 16 year olds cast in these roles, you'd be horrified. Yeah.

You really would be horrified. Well, I would be so funny because there'd be a real 15 year old with Cystic Acne who's playing Chuck Bass going, you're through. It's absolutely, it's Bass Enterprise. Exactly. And he's vomiting from the Scotch he's drinking. Yeah.

Is it, you know. It's just Scotch, this is us burning my throat. You're through it. Bass, go. What are you doing up? Mother! Yeah. I'm trying to fire the shareholder.

Go to bed. I'm sorry, he doesn't have any shares in your company. He's not old enough. You still have the company. Don't say that! You know, it's funny like, that would be, what you just pitched is a, to me, a really funny sketch of Gossip Girl played by-

Actual. Actual 14 and 15 year olds shot single camera. And, you know, people making these moves like I'm off to Paris. No, you're not. You're not fucking going to Paris. You're gonna go to high school. By the way, don't you have a paper due tomorrow?

I'm on the trail of a killer. No, you're not. Yeah, that's right. On the trail of an actual killer. Yeah, whatever. During the FBI's work. Yes, yes, they always have a scheme. And it's always like, you know, okay, here's the plan.

We're all going to go to Stodd. We're taking a private plane to Stodd. And we're going to stop them from stealing. I don't know. I'm always, I'll have to quote Stodd, but I don't really know where it is. Stodd in Switzerland? I think it's in Switzerland.

I have no idea. You always use it as your like- It's a go-to. Someday I want to have, I want to have some money nestled away in Stodd. But anyway, that's a really funny idea. We'll get together and we'll produce that. Because actually really awkward kids

and constantly their parents intervening, they're saying, no, you're not a shareholder. No, get back into your room and finish. And I actually think like the quote unquote love scenes, like the real awkwardness of a two 15 year olds kind of like barely being able to look at each other and just having, I mean, think about that. Think about the emotional maturity

of a 15, 16, 17 year old in a relationship. I mean, you think about the way that like, we would hold each other's faces and look longingly and say things like, I still have never held anyone's face. I've been married 20 years. And if I put my hands on my wife's face, I think she'd call the police.

You know what I mean? And looked into her eyes, sort of like, why are you looking at me? I feel like if you were cast in one of these high school shows, it would be actually more accurate. Yeah, I could do it now. Now at 59, if you cast me as a 19 year old in Gossip Girl,

I think I would be more convincing than 22 year olds playing 19 year olds. I would even say that there's no, okay, just practically speaking, the shot that looks good from the side of two people in love saying, I love you, you're so close. You actually can't see each other. You're out of focus, one eye is here,

the other eye is there. And he was like, okay, it's really absurd when you're bringing it to life. You never actually got a good look at Blake Lively. No, no, I wouldn't recognize her in the street. Just a blur. I can see that now. And I'm gonna look for that now when I go back.

You seem uncertain about what you're, am I talking to a waffle or Blake Lively? It's like when you're in the front row of an IMAX. Yeah, oh yes, yes. I mean, there's so much to talk about because I am fascinated by, I talk about this a lot and it's an important subject for me, which is I totally killed awkwardness as a 14, 15, 16 year old.

I owned it, I was, I mean, I got a merit badge in awkward. And so I love to talk about that and let people know. I think one of the things that I always thought is I would see people on television and think, oh, that's what they always were. And interestingly now, it's become much more of an open topic,

but people idealizing every single facet of their life rather than showing it for what it really is, which is there's tons of awkwardness, tons of humiliation. Mostly. Okay, well, now you're going too far. I don't, I don't, I mean, I mean, you know, okay, in my case, yes. But like, no, that was one of the things

that I, when listening to your podcast, Podcrushed, I like the premise, which is you and two of your friends who are quite- And former teachers. Former teachers who are very knowledgeable about this stuff are talking about this actual period of your life that people, especially now when you look at Instagram and on social media, everybody thinks that everyone else

looks like a supermodel in yoga pants. And that is a, it's warped. It's a fun house mirror. Yeah, but even, I mean, it's funny too, because I think more and more there is a booming trend of celebrities, whatever you want to call them, of authenticity being vulnerable, talking about how that's all facade.

But it doesn't, I don't think that that's a drop in the bucket compared to the decades of cultural teaching we've gotten of the opposite, you know? And so it doesn't really, I think, land. I mean, even, I mean, how much did I have to kind of step over this threshold of being like, I've been watching you on my screen since over half my life, you know?

And that's, it's a strange phenomenon. You witness this image, what can you do, but ultimately glorify it, you know? And- I hope so. I mean, for God's sake, I've tried for years. God damn it, won't someone glorify me? No, but it's true because there's this phrase,

you'll hear publicists say it, I've worked with people who've said it, where you meet someone, you've probably experienced this, you meet someone in this business early on, and they're very real, they're very themselves. And then you hear later, oh, they went through the machine. You ever heard that phrase?

Yeah, I've probably said it, yeah. Yeah, and what happens is you then see them later on, and they're not quite as accessible and vulnerable. They dress a lot better, but clearly they've gone through some process in order to, and I don't know what the thinking is, is it to make you look better on a red carpet or- Partly.

Yeah, exactly. And it makes me, I've had that a couple of times, and I've felt what saddened me, to be honest with you, and I witnessed it a few times with celebrities who I knew them really early on in their career, and then I saw them just a couple of years later when they had experienced like a real burst of fame,

and I could tell them there's a distance, or something isn't quite- No, a distance is a great way to put it. I think, you know, what I've, I went through my very cynical years. I mean, so I moved to LA when I was 12, and I was working right away, and I left when I was 20 to do Gossip Girl,

and right before that, I was thinking about quitting because I'd been doing so much television. I mean, I'd been doing so much television that by the time the Gossip Girl offer came around, I was like, yeah, there's nothing I can do anymore of this. I mean, I'd been working for Warner Brothers at that point since I was like 14. Well, take me through this,

because let's slow it down for a second, because this is what I want to hear. I know you're originally from Baltimore. Is that right? Well, so I was born there, but I really never lived there, and I mean, I was two. You know, I wasn't making, I didn't have agency when I was two,

so I didn't know, I'm the only one out of all my cousins who really doesn't know Maryland as well. So Baltimore is a bit of a technicality. It is a technicality. It sounds great. And then why did you move to LA? Well, so from there, I lived in Virginia, which is a very sort of idyllic suburban thing,

only child, two parents, and then the fishers began forming then. We sort of had to leave and go to the West Coast. We had far away, so we went to Washington State. We lived in a house that was like on a mountain side. Our neighbors were like a mile away. The driveway was like two tire tracks up the road. I lost my cat three days after arriving,

presumably to coyotes or, you know, cat never returned, which was heartbreaking. And because it was the end of the school year, and I wasn't gonna be returning to some kind of schooling for a few months, there was like no social outlet. And it was in that context that... When you said the fishers formed,

is it your parents' divorce? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it, got it. Nice little metaphor, a way of saying. The family was formed. I just say divorce. As far as they do. Fishers formed, wait, what?

Fishers formed, yes, I should clarify. Yeah, I thought you were talking, speaking geologically, but yes, your parents' forced. So that's how it was. Our house was being swallowed up by the earth, so we had to leave. But that's rough, so you were living with your mom, your dad?

They were together, but it was falling apart. By the way, the only reason that I'm open about that is I actually think like, what puts a 12-year-old into Hollywood in any meaningful way is like, it's not a great choice. Like I wouldn't recommend to anybody to do that. A lot of people that grew up alongside are a case study of that.

As am I, even if I look successful on one end, I mean, and just like the sort of work I've had to do to reconcile just that is, it's a lot. But Washington State and a lot of isolation is what led me to acting. It was a social outlet, to be honest. It was on the stage performing. What was your first big moment?

Did you have a moment when it called click for you? Yeah, so I was playing Winthrop in the Music Man. Oh my God, the Music Man is my dream. Really? Is, yes, is to play Harold Hill in the Music Man. Because I've always thought that's what I was sort of born to do. Right.

And basically just do the trouble song and then leave. I don't want to do the trouble. You know, I don't need to sing that I love you to a librarian, none of that. I just want to be brought in, do the trouble song and then a helicopter comes and takes me away. It's a very unusual production of the Music Man. It's an amazing song.

But yeah, so being on stage in this community theater, it was by the way like 50 miles away from my home, which we would travel to every day. Oh my God. It's like 100 miles every day. But you realized, okay, this is it. Yeah, I mean, you're bound together with like a common purpose with not just kids your age.

You know, it's just people of all ages and walks of life relatively speaking in that place, in that corner of the world. And yeah, I was just like, this is amazing. And you know what? Soon after that, I got into radio. So actually being in a vocal booth and like this kind of thing,

this is really where my professional life started at nine years old. So, you know, one of the jokes with my podcast about middle schools that I didn't really, I didn't finish middle school. I didn't attend high school because I was working. At what age did you leave middle school? 12 officially, and I was in seventh grade then.

Didn't finish my seventh grade year. Didn't, I skipped eighth grade and started homeschooling as a ninth grader, which was completely and utterly meaningless. The particular like government assisted program I was in got a computer. And actually soon after I took a proficiency exam that gave me the equivalent in California state

to a high school diploma. So I could actually work adult hours. And wouldn't have to do the whole tutor thing, which to be honest was preferable because it's like when you're working on set, you then have to do these three hours of. You know, I've always been really suspicious of that. And most of my career has been obviously working

in this variety format. So I haven't been exposed to that. But the few times that I've been on a set and I've seen kids leaving to go be there with their tutor and then being released from the tutor so they can come back and run away from the dinosaur, whatever they're supposed to do. It always felt like this can't be great.

No, it's not. Yeah, it's definitely not. And so if as long as I was gonna go on this path, I actually think it was the right way because it helped me to remain excited to learn because I was not having like toxic learning experiences, partly because I didn't finish middle school or go to high school.

You know, I actually always have retained the just utter joy of reading, you know. And I think working also gave me so many experiences that acted like another kind of education. Yeah, but it's interesting because I think a love of reading conquers all. I agree with that. And I stumbled upon this great quote the other day

from Gertrude Stein. I don't know who that is. I didn't, I didn't, I don't know. Yeah, early modernist, you know, helped Hemingway get his start living in Paris. Anyway, but Gertrude Stein said at the end of the day, and I'm misquoting her, but basically it was at the end of the day

that education may not be very important at all. And I took that to mean it really is what you, it's how you educate yourself in so many ways that can make up for anything. I mean, there are people that have tons of education and don't know anything. And there are people who educate themselves. And I think reading is just being curious,

just being curious about the world. And reading books can, you know, some of the most brilliant people I've met. I don't even know where they went to college or if they went to college, but they're, you know, auto-didex. They just teach themselves things. And I'm really in awe of them

because, you know, in our country, obviously we get really obsessed with, you know, where'd you go to school? You know, and I think there's so much education that you can do for yourself. Yeah, I mean, it also seems to me, I mean, you went to an incredible university. I feel like everybody's report from school

has to do a lot more with life experience, I think. No, definitely one thing everybody knows about me is that I went to Harvard and I worked really hard in high school to go there. I was interested in going to a good college. I'm proud that I got in. I can't tell you what I learned there that I retain today what I remember of the people.

I remember meeting lots of interesting people. Some of, many of whom are still my friends to this day. I remember getting interested in comedy. I was always interested in comedy, but finding an outlet for it there. But I'm very clear with my kids that it was not, it's not Hogwarts. You don't go to these schools

and they impart some magical spells to you that then take you on in life and you're a great sorcerer and you get an owl. I'm gonna keep going with this, you know, Snape's involved. I think that's enough. Okay, I think it's... I'd like to hear more, I don't know.

I don't get this every day. So, I know you're sick of it. There are different houses, you know. Yeah, great. How many? Well, it's interesting you say. There's... They're slithered.

By what's the name, please do. But I do think it's, you know, my great education in my life has been stumbling around, making mistakes in the real world, humiliating myself, having some things go well, some things go terribly. That has been my education. And I sometimes feel badly

that there's all this pressure on kids today that there are certain schools that have the golden key. And if you don't get to those schools, you cannot move forward. And I think of all my heroes who didn't go to school or went to a school I don't know or were terrible students flunked out and they have, you know, achieved spectacular things.

And it's another thing that would probably come up on your podcast, cause I see it so much as, I mean, schools are so much more competitive now than they were when I was applying. I don't think I'd get into any of these schools now. They're, you know, kids are competing against everybody. They're competing against the very best kids in the entire world in China and India.

And it is very, very, very difficult. And I think it's a lot of pressure for a really young kid to have. It really is. And then also once you get out and just the relevance of a degree now and just how many, do people say the job market anymore? Is that a...

I mean, I feel like I used to hear that a lot. Used to hear it. Now after COVID, it's like, let's... No one has said job market in three years. I don't know why we're laughing. I know. Well, it's... Everything's crumbling around us.

It's a master of pain. It's a master of pain. Yeah, master of pain, yeah. So I'm curious, cause I want to follow this a little bit. You start doing theater and then how do you get into television and what kind of roles are you doing? Are you working in television as a child? Yes, I mean, so in Washington,

it was theater and voiceover. So I really did a lot of like radio and like video game voiceover stuff. Seattle Children's Theater is a pretty... Then it was, I think it still is. My wife is from Seattle. And so I've spent a lot of time there visiting her family and we've seen many Seattle Children's Theater productions.

So I'm really familiar with it and they're fantastic. Yeah, I mean, I remember just being kind of enchanted again. So I went from this community theater in a town called Monroe that was very far away from where we lived, doing the Music Man to what felt like big city metropolitan children doing reviews. And I remember we did one musical review and then, wow, I haven't thought about this in so long.

And then we did one that was not a musical, which I loved. It was called Barbie's Demise. Oh my God. And it was written by teenagers. And I was probably 10. So to me, they were the coolest people in the world, writing some original like radical feminists for the time who knows now what it...

But yeah, it was called, it was literally called Barbie's Demise. This is great, you're... This is coming out of my... This is a good therapy session for you. Yeah. You owe me $140. Therapy costs more than that now, come on.

Trust me, trust me, I know. I was knocked about $100 off. Yeah, I can recall just this sort of bustling feeling of entering into, yeah, like I said, just this kind of metropolitan feeling of like making art. It really did feel that way. I remember very clearly, when I was 14,

if I saw teenagers, I mean, when I was like 12, 13, if I saw 18 year olds, it's very difficult to explain now how insane that gap is. It's the biggest gap in the world. It's a massive gap. And it's something that you don't get later on in life because it's not like I can say,

well, you know, whatever, as a guy in my fifties, oh my God, you're 65, that's so impressive. It doesn't work that way anymore. Do you know what I mean? Not at all, even from, I would say, I would even say from 20 to 40, like I'm 36, or we'll be 36 shortly. I'm waiting for happy birthday.

Oh, happy? No, happy birthday. Well, you didn't say how short. Yeah, well... We were waiting to see how short. Is it within the... 240 didn't know, it's like, it's in a few days, but I was...

Happy birthday, happy birthday. Happy birthday. And we're gonna keep saying it to make you feel like shit. Happy birthday. Oh no, this part's got to stay. Trust me, Lusona, when she just had her birthday and she calls it her birthday month.

Birth month. Birth month? Yeah, it's not birthday month. Yeah, okay. Birthday month sounds stupid. Yeah, that's ridiculous. I went to a good college. That proves I didn't say something stupid.

This proves my point exactly. I just called it birthday month. Yes, but no one makes a bigger deal. I love my birthday. If you were pen... Are you a big birthday person? No, but my wife is. Yeah, I love it.

What if you were, what were you gonna say? If you were pen, you would be celebrating, starting several weeks before your birthday and then extending several months afterwards. This would be part of birth month if I were you. You wouldn't be here is the point. You'd be, you'd be off. I would bring in a cake that I brought myself

and then make everybody say happy birthday to me. And you'd charge it to the show. And she's laughing because that's exactly what I was thinking. Exactly what I was thinking. So you come to LA at some point and you're doing, do you know then that like, okay, this is, I can do this, I can do this for a living. I can be on television.

I know you're doing voiceovers for a bit. So what happened was, I guess I started doing auditions for commercials and like movies. In fact, from what I recall, do you remember this movie, Mercury Rising? Yeah. With Bruce Willis.

And I believe at the time a child named Miko Hughes, that role was the first audition I had and put myself on tape in Seattle. I can remember vividly the casting office again, things I've not recalled in a long time. Yeah, I like had repeated callbacks on that. Really was invested in the, I mean, this actually sounds like in a lot of ways,

sort of reductive and problematic. But at the time you didn't see a lot of representation of people with autism or disabled and certainly you didn't have disabled actors playing those people. So I was, you know, I like I watched Rain Man and was really motivated as a young artist, as a young performer,

with this idea of like really inhabiting somebody else's sort of like frame of mind and heart. And you know what I mean? Like it was actually really exciting, you know, like working on those mannerisms and stuff to play an autistic child. And then a years later, like at 17 or 18 years old,

I had a meeting with like the VP of casting at Warner Brothers or something. And she from, I almost feel silly saying it, but from what I remember, she said she remembered my tape and that I was evidently one of the last names in the running for that. And I was like, oh, I never heard that, that's cool. But that's to say that, you know,

at what I probably nine or 10 years old, I mean, I was like actively pursuing what would become, you know, career and film and TV. And it felt good, you know, for all the stuff I mentioned earlier about the culture here that you can't avoid and that a child is like alone in the ocean a little bit, doesn't have the tools to really recognize.

But apart from that, I was like authentically pursuing some kind of career as an artist and I liked that. It was, it felt really good. And then I started working and then, no. It's hard, you know, that's the other thing too, is that it's, again, you wanna talk about people

idealizing things, the career and the work that you've done being in the business, having success is idealized by a lot of people. And I remember one of the first things when I first got into the business, especially on camera, someone gave me some advice, never complain, never be caught complaining.

And I thought, oh, that's true, because I remember once we had the author, Frank McCordon, who's this, you know, great Irish writer who had, who wrote Angela's Ashes and he talks about his terrible upbringing, you know, and literally being impoverished. And he'd written these amazing works about his really tough childhood in Ireland,

in like the 1930s and 40s. And I remembered we had him on the show and the show's over and we had had just a really tough, long string of shows in a row and I walked out and I'm pulling my tie off and I'm like, oh my God, man, this gig sometimes just really gets to me. And I forgot who I was talking to. I'm talking to Frank McCord,

the guy who is famous for writing about his impoverished childhood in Ireland. And he went, well, I bet there's a lot of other fucking people who'd be willing to do it if you'd want to give it up Conan. And I'm like, no, no, no, Mr. McCord. No, and I'm so happy that I, you know, cause I immediately, you know,

here I am with my makeup on, wearing a suit jacket and I've just chatted and done some banter and been very highly compensated for it. And I said, oh man, this job sometimes, ah, you're feeling like you're a little fucking tired of your job, are you? You know, like, and I thought, Jesus Christ. But the times I've been around, especially a single camera,

and I had a little bit of experience with it a couple of months ago and I was stunned at how much, how hard everybody's working. Yeah, really. I mean, the hours are long and stuff. Yeah, and not just the act, I mean, the actors are there, but then anyone, the crew, the people, the people in makeup are there.

So the actors are showing up at like five and six in the morning, but the people in here in makeup are showing up at 4.30 in the morning to get everything ready for them. And they're packing up after the actors go home. I just was blown away. And now I look at the single camera shows and movies very differently.

I think, wait a minute, every shot I'm seeing, there were, it was done 55 different ways. Yeah. And it took five months for like four minutes of footage with some of these big ones. I mean, it's a behemoth enterprise and it really is like, it's an amazing thing to be a part of. And I agree with you about this.

Complaining is, in this industry is, it's definitely a bad look. I think the only time that I'm forthcoming or transparent about the process is more of like as a witness to help people to not idealize it in a way that is sort of like, I don't know, it just leads to more and more fantasy. You know what I mean?

It's like, I personally love what I do. And I'm also constantly taking stock of like the culture of the industry. It's just, yeah, it's like really, really intense. I think you're bringing up a good point which is you need to love it. You need to love it. Are you willing to like give it your absolute all?

Yeah, and I always say, are you willing to feed, like remove your leg and feed it into a wood chipper to do this because you love it that much? And if the answer is yes, then you have your answer. I think you and I both know people who've got into this because they thought, if I get famous, this will be the salve and the ointment that will cure

my insecurities, the fact that I was a nerd, the fact that no one, the girl I like didn't pay attention to me, this will cure all of those wounds. And I know people that felt that way, got famous, that didn't happen, it doesn't fix. If you've got a hole inside you, you still have that hole and they become enraged about it.

They're furious. They're rich and recognizable and they're really angry because it didn't fix the thing that they wanted to fix. And at that point, the hill is really tall. Yeah. The peak is very far away. Cause yeah, I mean, also, you know, again, and I hope in this context is clear,

like not at all complaining about it. It's like bearing witness to this reality. We know that like fame and wealth, how many more documentaries about are the world's biggest icons and most talented people who, how many more do we need to see who've fallen and collapsed? Like, you know, like it's just helps us understand

the forces that work, like certainly never be ungrateful. And then like, let's not paper over how it's... There's always a cost. So, and there's a cost to everything. And so you just need to be reasonable and you need to see both sides of it and weigh them. And sometimes if the cost gets too high, you need to track that as well.

And I think the big antidote, something you've done, I've done is find your partner, have kids, that is huge. And then invest in that because the rest of it will come and go. But my wife assures me she will never leave me. And I make her renew that vow every day. Okay.

Yeah. It's taking time, Bob. You think she's on the way out? All it takes is one face hold. I know. That's right. I'm watching way too many gossip girls these days. My daughter's...

Covering her ears. It's also, you know, in this modern era, like the idea of taking a woman's face and holding it still. Yeah. While you say things like, I'm gonna hold your face right here so that you have to, so I can mansplain something to you.

Yeah, I wouldn't like that. Has Tack ever held your face? Tack has never held my face. He's never been, like, you know. What about this? What about the, what about the... Oh, God. Oh, the little vat.

I do that to myself. The finger is on the... Is that weird? That's an utter... It's a little like a... It's a little auto erotic. Yeah. Feline sort of.

You make that face when you do it. I do this. Yeah. It's weird. I make kind of a weird, pouting face as I stroke my own chin. That's weird. That got me through fifth, sixth, seventh grade.

Okay. Did you do it in class? Sometimes. Come on. The teacher would say, Conan, stop that. And I'd go, ugh. Oh, no. Why did you do that noise though?

It's a sound. Well, I guess it's a podcast. Yeah, that's the habit I have to get rid of. Yeah, you should stop grazing your cheek like that. That's just weird. I remember I've talked about the sexilize and videotape. James Spader, when that movie came out, I remember they wanted to show him pleasuring himself,

but in a way that was acceptable in the late 80s. So he'd have no shirt on and he'd just be rubbing his fingers across the top of his chest. And I remembered that took me completely out of the movie. Really weird. Like, oh, okay. That doesn't seem that efficient. I'm sorry.

I don't think that's gonna get the job done. It depends on how long you got. I mean, you know what's funny about that is that now cut to, I don't know what the rating is on my show, you, but it's like, I'm now famous for, oh my God, the thing's masturbating. Right, well, the thing is, I'm, on your show, it's even in the pilot.

They have it happening in, you know, so. In the pilot. In the pilot, you are watching the object of your affection from across the street and you start taking care of business. And you're not what we call spater baiting. Just kidding. You are, you are really doing it.

And then I'm wondering, is there direction involved? Oh yeah. What does the director say? From what, so first of all, what's interesting about this is it is on 19th Street in Gramercy, which is the first street I lived on in New York City. It was the added bit of surreality for me is that it very much was like a neighborhood street for me.

Like I was very much at home, but now surrounded by a film crew at like, you know, 11 p.m. at night. And by the way, like, keep in mind, not looking at anything real, I'm looking at an X, a tape mark. Right, they're holding like, they're holding like a, there's like a fishing pole

with a golf ball hanging off of it. They're saying, just look at that and pretend that it's an erotic woman. You don't realize how awkward it's gonna be until you just gotta go ahead and act like that. And one of the things that I struggled with a lot when I first took the role was like, I don't want to lean away

from the horrific aspects of this person. I don't wanna be just, as we've said, it's hard not to glorify actually almost anything you see on camera. So I'm gonna just be conscious of that. So there were two things that I did that were, and again, I don't know what happened. I don't remember what they used.

So it may not be this way in the show, but what I did up until the director came and was like, you can't do that anymore, is that I was slow and my eyes were open. And I was like, I am going to be very slow. And I am not gonna fucking blink. I like that a director came over and said, you've gotta stop that now.

And at some point, he comes up and he's, he was trying to be very kind and he was like, hey, so I think we're gonna have to get you to close your eyes. Well, now I know why I didn't get this role. And I remember I was, because I was already very conscious of not wanting to be like, sexually masturbating

outside of the street of, you know, it's like, it's very intense to play this person. And, you know, and I was kind of, I was already like, why, why, why, why? Like, tell me, why am I, why are my eyes closed? Yeah, you know, just being very principled. And this is where, you know, at this point, I don't know what I was thinking as an actor,

but just as a person who was uncomfortable, I just was kind of ready to go, by the way, my version of confrontational, the people-pleaser that I am working all my life and in Hollywood was like, okay, okay, okay. In my mind, I'm like, why, why, why, why? I don't remember what I actually said. I wish Frank McCord had been there.

Oh, if you don't want to fucking jerk off, I bet that someone else would be willing to do it for a couple of hundred fucking thousand dollars. I'm not comfortable with this. Ah, you don't want to whack it to you. Well, let me tell you something. That started to turn into like a rap almost at the end. Yeah, I like-

Yeah, and so, and so, and I don't remember anybody telling me to speed up, but I think I just did because it felt so weird to be going so slow. Yeah, yeah. And then they use what they use, whatever. You can go back and watch whatever it is. I don't remember what it is. I think the director just put it on fast for,

he sped up the film. So you were doing it really slow, but it's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And in the background, cars are going really fast. And the sun comes up and goes down like three times. Cause apparently you were doing it for days. Well, you know what? I am, I feel like I'm a natural for your podcast,

podcast, I think I should- Oh, definitely. If you actually, if you actually want to come on, I mean, we would love to have you. Cause, you know, if you're looking for people with an awkward past who need to come clean, I'm your man. A deep well, I bet. Well, that's-

The past, present, and future for you. Talking about, I turned into such a cool guy. Now I am Chuck Bass. You're about the age. Yeah. You're getting to the age of the Chuck Bass disposition. Chuck Bass honestly had the disposition of like a, of a Yakuza member.

Like is, like just points and- Oh, it's so true. And also the amount of brown liquor, you know, that's the thing I love is it'll be like two o'clock in the afternoon and he's throwing back- Drinking it like water. Yeah, drinking it like water. And I'm like, oh no, that, that fucks you up.

Yeah. And you're 17. You have algebra in an hour. Algebra. You threw it past industries. Yeah, he's, he really is Montgomery Burns from the same sense. He's Mr. Burns.

But well, this made me really happy. I was so glad that you could come in and do this. And you know what blew me away? Is that we never met. Yeah, no, never. I mean- And I was on my way in here and I was like, wait a minute, I've never met Penn Badgley

and told my family that I was gonna be interviewing you today and got major points. That's great to hear. No, seriously, that it is a ritual for us and my daughter's off at college now, but when we get, when we all get together, one of their things is we watch some gossip girls. Oh, wow.

Yeah, still. Yeah, that's really cool to hear, honestly. Sometimes, yeah, my wife sees me watching one alone, I get in trouble. Cause suddenly I'm a pervert. It's cause your eyes are open. And I'm, I have no shirt on and I'm just- You get spader baiting.

Spader baiting in the episode of Gossip Girl. I have my pants on, I'm standing. You're standing. And I'm just, I'm standing. And it was spader standing? And it's like, yeah, no, he's lying down, but I'm standing cause I've, I've taken the spader method and I'm, I'm do it.

You're propping it up. Yeah, and I'm just, I'm rubbing my chest and I'm watching a gossip girl from like 2006. And you have no expression on your face, right? Cause when you're doing it now, it's- Just a completely dead face. He just, he just did a really dead face. Oh, oh, oh, this is on video, you'll see it.

No, don't look right. Your camera's right there. Don't look right at it. And I'm watching, you know, an episode and it's like, you know, Rufus just made waffles and I'm like, whoa. The thing is- What the waffles?

It's the waffles in them. It's not the beautiful women, it's, look at all that. Breakfast, those, those carbs. No one's having any. Why are you wearing a vest again? You really do, you really do. Oh, I watch, I watch. I gotta go, I gotta go.

I can't eat any of this. Eat it! It's a fucking greatest breakfast. You are the only person who's talked about the breakfast on that show. I think everybody, is that really- It was like, it was like an inside joke with us. Well, with you guys, but people watching

probably weren't paying attention to the breakfast. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, Rufus waffles are like, Rufus's waffles are, as far as I'm aware, they're a thing. Yeah, they're a thing. Well, I mean, I think that- No, I think if you went- You said fansite.

No, no, I think if you went on, I'm saying if you went on a fansite- If one was to go- Go into that world, I'm sure they talk about it. Did you go on a- No, I did not. It's okay if you did. Well, I didn't go on as myself.

No, I'm saying that anyone who watches the show, if you're talking to a sentient person, at some point, you notice that, think of the greatest brunch you've ever seen. Like you're at a rich person's wedding, and they put out a brunch that costs a couple of hundred thousand dollars. Yes, every time.

That is the breakfast that they have- I've watched the show. A single death. I just was paying attention to what everybody was wearing, how attractive everybody was. All I see is the amazing breakfast, the waffles. All of them. All of it.

And you guys always take a little nibble, and then I'm out of here, and you take off, and then you go and get a coffee someplace. I'm sorry, I took this in a weird direction. We were here to help young people understand that there are problems and there are issues, and that it's okay to feel awkward. And I took it to my own place,

which is I want to go back in time and finish those breakfasts. I live inside of a waffle nook. They were really good. And I have to say they were, I always wanted to eat more. Yeah, I'm sure you did. I did. I'm imagining Frank McCord is being like-

I never got, come on. Hi, brother, son! Hi, you wish you'd had a never- There's children dying! Look at these fucking waffles! Oh, your son, oh, penpachi didn't get enough. Free waffles, did he? Hey, Penn, this has been a real pleasure, a real joy,

so cool talking to you. And you know, we didn't even get to, we'll scratch the surface next time, but I know you're a guitar guy. I know you play a telecaster. I'm a fender guy, I love fenders, so we got to talk about that some time. I would love that.

You're a phenomenal player from what I understand. No, I am not. Well, you wouldn't say that. No, no, but I also, I know what I am, which is I am largely a self-taught hack and I don't know theory. Yeah, as an I, I'd say. And there's a lot that I,

whenever I play with people who can really play, I feel terrible. So I'm always very open about that, but I enjoy it. Yeah, I'm very much in the same boat. Yeah. All right, well, we'll continue this on your podcast. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Oh, and happy yearly birthday. Thank you. Birth month. Birth month. You're gonna stretch this out. A few episodes ago on the live from the Beacon Theater Tracy Morgan show,

we discussed something that we need to follow up on. Okay. And that is, yes. Oh my God. Jupe, the jupe sent for men. It's so much more purple than I thought it would be. Let me bring people up to speed. Please.

Tracy's on the show at the Beacon Theater, Tracy Morgan, the great Tracy Morgan. And just before the show, they say Tracy's here. So I go down to say hi to him and he gives me a big hug. And I am suddenly transported to a better world because he has this aroma. He wears, and I asked him about it. He wears a cologne.

But of course, being Tracy, I just said, what are you wearing? Jupe. Jupe. And he's yelling jupe. And I didn't know what he was talking about. Me either. I think I pulled the crowd.

I don't think a lot of people knew what jupe was. None of us on stage did. Yeah, we didn't know on stage. I don't know about colognes where there's an exclamation point in the name. See, this is a red flag to me. Yeah. So the color of corn is literally a red flag

because that's the color of your urine when you're dying of kidney failure. Yeah. It is a cranberry blood. Yeah. You just pour that in a toilet after someone's used it and you will freak them out. Also, it just says jupe exclamation mark home

and there's literally not another word on the bottle like anything. Nothing. Well, I was saying to Tracy, I think, do you think this would up my game with this? And he was, I have to say, Tracy's a very convincing person. He's a very powerful personality and he doesn't half recommend anything.

Jupe. He really, really thought my life would be enhanced if I had some jupe on me. Do you remember what else you said? You said that you would put some on, go home, not say anything and see what Liza said about it. Yes, I will do that. Yeah, so we can report back.

Okay, this is interesting. My wife has been in New York City talking to lawyers for some reason, but that's not the important thing. No, no, she's been in New York and she gets back today. So this is perfect because when I go home, I'm not gonna say anything and I'm just gonna see what happens.

You're gonna introduce her to the new Conan. Yeah, so try some on now. The jupe Conan. Yeah. Try this. So, oh, it's got a little sprayer. And what do you do? Do you spray it right on?

Do you wanna smell it first? I think technically you're supposed to spray and then walk into it. We just smell it first. It's so close. Okay. I just fired it at myself. It was backwards.

I am not kidding. I just held my wrist out, held the bottle up, and then saw this shit sprang to my eyes. I'm not, I wasn't trying to do it. You clearly never wore a cologne. Of course not, I've never worn a cologne. Oh, I don't know how I feel about that. What do you think?

I don't need it. Well, I'm getting a... It could de-vegetate brain forests. I don't wanna be mean, but it does smell like this motel I used to stay in with my family in Lake Tahoe. I'm not even joking. What if Tracy was here, he'd probably say,

I love that motel. The jupe was there all the time. The jupe in. I used to check in. I used to roll around on the sheets. I'd jupe it up and roll around on the sheets. It is, well, it's sweet. That's for sure.

It's got a sweetness to it. Whoa. I'm trying to think of what notes, what notes are you getting? It's not very strong. Here, here, you try some on your wrist, don't worry about it. I'm getting like 1930s grandma.

Yeah, grandma, right? Yeah, yeah. Not very masculine. Yeah, pass it around, take a swig. On the bottle it says, and now with more grandma. They just grind him up. What? I just...

I have to say, Tracy smelled really good. He did, I don't know if he was wearing. He said he wore a half a bottle. Yeah, he puts a lot of it on, and I do think that's what he was wearing. He doesn't lie about jupe. Okay. All right, maybe it smells differently.

It reminds me of, you know, Old Spice was a really cheap thing, but I have a fondness for that because my grandpa and dad wore it, and I probably wouldn't bulk if I had to wear that, but it's really cheap, you know? Yeah. I never put on a cologne.

No, I'm not really a cologne guy either. I used to wear a perfume. But I might start wearing jupe. Yeah. Now, what do you think? Do you think people would accept me if I started wearing jupe? No.

Okay. I don't. I think you're not a cologne guy. Hey, do you think Tracy would do an ad with me for jupe? Oh, I'm sure. Like the Thumbnail Subway? Oh, my gosh. Would that be great?

Sure he would. Me and Tracy, and it's for jupe. I want to see you pouring it on yourself. You guys should come up with your own fragrance, and you read it through the back, and it's just Conan and Tracy Morgan for Pooge. Pooge. You see it backwards?

Yeah. I think there are some people who are cologne people, and you're not a cologne person. No, I'm not a cologne person. Do you go to the club a lot? Do you hit the clubs? I've never hit the clubs. Yeah, me either.

I mean, bottle service at the club? Never, never hit the clubs. But you used to hit the clubs all the time. I did, lots of cologne. Really? Yeah. And what did you wear a sense for? Is it to cover?

I wore a perfume, yeah. But why are people, why do you think, are there women that like a man to wear a sense? Yeah, I think so. I used to like nice sense on guys, you know, but it's, you know, that was a different time. That was a different, so nice. Oh, you were a married mother of twin boys.

Yeah, yeah. So you shouldn't be hungering for another man's sense. No, no, and also now I'm worried about wearing sense because what if the boys react weirdly to it? So I don't know. I don't need it. Okay. Well, I'm all down with, you know,

it's not like I have a product right now that I'm really tethered to, never really had one, but why not jupe? Let me ask you this, when you go home tonight, Liza will have been out of town, she's gonna come home and you're gonna have this really sweet perfume on you and she's gonna think, well, no, she won't. She was not gonna think that.

She is not going to think that. She's gonna think, oh, he's doing a bit for the podcast. Yeah, exactly. Oh, what's this podcast bit? Liza sleeps very soundly at night knowing that. Yeah. Not out there. She might even just be in for a little like.

I did say to her once, not long ago, I said, if you did find out that I was cheating on you, isn't there some part of you that would be impressed with my time and action skills? Because, you know, that's what I never have understood. I have no desire to be that person. I am very happy with my choice, but I'm always, once people do that,

and I always think, wait a minute, how do you keep all that shit straight? And the energy and time. Yeah, I gotta go see, you know, Matt Gorley and Adam Sacks to talk about the, and then we're in a restaurant, you know, with Fifi, and she's like, she Mr. O'Proy, and you really think you're gonna get me my own podcast?

You bet, Fifi, I'll get you your own podcast. How's that chicken Milanese? She Mr. O'Proy, and such a sophisticated. Wait a minute, that's the phone. Oh, hello Liza, I'm here with Eduardo. Wait, did I say? Oh, no, no, Matt and Adam died. That's why I couldn't meet with them

and I'm with Eduardo. I mean, I would fuck it all up. And then you have to kill us. Yeah, then I'd have to kill you. She Mr. O'Proy, and why are we killing people? I like that that's my, That Conan would wear a collar. That's my mistress.

She's chomping gum. She's got big high heels. Off the bus from Kansas to get a podcast. To get a podcast. She Mr. O'Proy, and you're the bee's knees. Well, we'll report back on what Liza says about your new scent. Well, before this airs, people may read about it.

Oh, what? Yeah, Conan O'Brien shot by wife. Not for cheating, but for wearing that. No, just for wearing the scent. Yeah, jupe. Look for it. Where do you look for it? Amazon, $35 a bottle.

Is that true? I thought it was like a Rite Aid scent. I bet it is. I think it's one of those, you know, like pharmacy clones. You know what? I like it. I like the way my wrist smells right now

and I like the way I'm gonna smell when I go home tonight and we will report back on how Conan wearing jupe and not saying a word to his wife goes over. I'd give it one more spray just to make sure it lasts. Oh, no, no, no, no. I am gonna. You're gonna dab it on me. I might take this with me.

Okay, yeah. And hit myself hard before I walk in the door. Yeah. I want it to be noticeable. Yeah, okay. Just that would be $35. And then I'll be have to do CPR on our cats. Okay, $35, so you owe me $35.

Did you put it on the show card? I don't have a show card. Fantastic. Just as I decreed it. All right, peace out. Two buck. Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian and Matt Gorely.

Produced by me, Matt Gorely. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solotarov and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Year Wolf. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Supervising producer, Aaron Blair.

Associate talent producer, Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Patista and Britt Kahn. This episode was mixed and edited by me, Brett Morris. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan?

Call the Team Coco Hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It could be featured on a future episode. Please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.