Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Russell Brand

Episode Date: May 25, 2020

Comedian Russell Brand feels nervous about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Russell and Conan sit down to talk about the appearance of the sacred within the ordinary, making pain lucrative, and the constant of late-night talk shows in America. Later, Conan answers a listener question about which member of his team he would fire. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is Russell Brand and I feel nervous about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, friendly little podcast that's just chugging its way along, like a friendly little locomotive with big eyes. What's that show that had locomotives that had eyes, big eyes? Thomas the Train? Yes, I'm like one of the little Thomas the Tank engines. I don't think you are. You've been on television for 27 years. I know, but we're a little podcast now, and I think of us as a happy little Thomas the Tank engine train. It's got those blinking eyes. I'm, of course, the lead engine, the crucial part of the whole apparatus.

Nothing moves without me. And then I haul a lot of just freight behind me. I've got to point out, Sona, you can hear Sona's here. Sona, you're like six compartments back. You're a freezer compartment that holds just giant dead steers. What? That sucks. I'm sorry. You're very useful. That's the only way to get the meat to the Midwest. To the Midwest? Where do you think it comes from? Conan, take it easy. My point is, normally, Goorley would be jumping in and objecting and saying, you suck and not me, man. I do a lot around here. Hey, man. Is he teaching John?

Yeah, but Goorley is not here today. Goorley is not with us. And how's the podcast doing? Chugging along just fine without him. My point is that I, the lead locomotive, ejected one car. I didn't even eject it. He couldn't be here today. So he just fell off the tracks, I think. And I'm still dragging you behind me, Sona, and a bunch of other cars. I feel like this is more of a snow pier survive to me personally. You're up in the front, and the riffraff is in the back. And it gets progressively worse the further back along it gets. Right. And then the riffraff at the back of the train makes their way up to the front of the train to kill all the obnoxious people in the front. Is that the idea? Yeah, that's the goal for me and Goorley is to get to the front and kill you.

One more of a time with the tank engine. I'm a big, happy tank engine with big childlike eyes who happens to be a rageaholic. And then, you know, it's too bad. Obviously, because we're in these odd times to put it mildly, we're not all together. We're all recording separately. Usually we're in the same room. And I think if we were all together today, you'd be having fun with the color of my face right now. Because I was shooting all day, something outside in my backyard. Obviously, we're still quarantined. So I was shooting something for an upcoming project, and I was shooting it in my backyard, and I forgot to put sunscreen on, which I never forget. And at the end of the day, my head, my entire head, felt like an Easter ham that had just been taken out of the oven. And then, and then I walked in, said, I'm like, what is going on?

And my wife and my, my daughter were all looking at me like, what's wrong with you? My wife thought I had been day drinking because I just had this and I went and I looked in the mirror and I look, my face is just a red, fat, Irish tomato. And it's emitting heat. Heat is rising off my head right now. And so, yeah, and I think you would all be laughing at me right now because it really looks kind of funny. It's not funny. I think I've been irradiated, and this is the end for me. It's funny. It's funny. It is really funny. Yeah, it's really, it's really crazy. And it just goes to show you, so I know that if you were in the sun all day, you wouldn't get red. You would get like a nice tan.

Right, a nice glow. I don't know about a glow. Really some nice color. No. A nice human tone. Yeah, you'd get, you'd get, yeah, these nice. Bronze. Bronze. It would be, there's not a glow. A glow is something else.

Well, I get a glow. I get a glow. You know, Port of Greek. Not a glow. Mediterranean thing. That's fine. No, no. It's more of a, you get a nice, I'll tell you what you get. It's, there's like a little nutmeg in there, a little oregano, some creme de cacao. It's very nice. You get a lot of paprika. I just, it's crazy. Were you in the direct sun too?

Yes, I was in the direct sun. Okay. And I wasn't thinking about it. I had used, this was a kind of a shade thing just to help the lighting look better because I'm trying to do a lot of this by myself. And there was this like screen that I was using. It was, and someone had told me it blocks out UV light. And then later I said, does that block out UV light? And the person said, oh no, no, I just said that. It magnifies UV light. So I was an aunt under a giant, a giant magnifying glass for about three hours in my yard today to shoot this thing. And I smell bacon right now. I smell burning pork. And every now and then I'll reach up to my forehead and I'll pull a little piece off and I'll eat it and it's not bad. Oh God. It's not bad. It tastes like bacon bits. That's what I taste like.

Stop it. Ew. It's like gold member in Austin Powers. Yeah. I could take a grater and I could go into any restaurant and say, would you like bacon on that cob salad and just shred my forehead right under their salad? Oh my God. A little bacon there for you. A little bacon bit for you. Yeah, it's not good. It's bad. You might need to go to the doctor. That's not even a joke. You don't go to that. Oh yeah. Now's the time for me to go to the doctor during the middle of a COVID-19 pandemic. I rush to the emergency room and I say, stop what you're doing, everybody.

I feel I was in the sun a little longer than optimal. Hello. Hello. Everyone walk away from the patient. They're helping to breathe and come see me and spread aloe on my celebrity face, which is slightly pinker than I'd prefer. That's a great idea, Sana. That's going to go great with everybody. Conan O'Brien killed by essential workers in ER. They kill you. Yeah, they would murder me. Okay, this guy's such an asshole. Excuse me. Hello, ladies, fellows, over here and bring me aloe. It's time to cool my forehead. I was shooting a video in my yard and I didn't pay attention to the sun.

What? A pandemic? Well, first things first, get over here. If I didn't look like this on a podcast, they would all pick up the nearest scalpel and stab me and they would be right to do it and the nation would cheer. The nation would be right. Anyway, no, I will not rush now to the hospital. I'll just wait for this face to peel off, which it will. I'll get up in like three weeks. I'll wake up and I'll get up and there'll be another face of mine just on the pillow. Ew. Yeah, and then I can sell it on eBay. You want a Conan face? Get your Conan face or on Etsy. I'll get it on Etsy. On Etsy?

Yeah, it's kind of a craft. You didn't craft it. My body did. Okay, that doesn't make sense. Well, we'll see. That's up to Gorlian. He's editing. He ever gets back here. You know, we can't mess around because we have an excellent show. Enough of this fall to raw and foolishness. I'm sorry you burned your face. Yeah, that's okay.

That sucks. I shall survive. No, please. It's not your fault. Put it in perspective. My guest today is a very excited about this gentleman. He's a hilarious comedian who has starred in such movies as Forgetting Sarah Marshall and Getting to the Greek. He also hosts a podcast under the skin available every week only on Luminary at luminarypodcast.com. I have great affection for this guy. Very witty, very different. Russell Brand, welcome.

When was the last time you acquired an actual friend? Oh, well, I don't know that I have one. I mean, this is, this is really, yeah, this is, I have lots of people I say, hello, how are you? And on my birthday, they say thinking of you, but real friend, huh? I'll wager it's been close to a decade since you've spoken to someone who's not in your pay. Wow. Oh my God. You know why people are laughing so hard? Because that has the, that's an ice dagger of truth. That's what that is right there that went right through my heart.

Yes, I do pay people like Sona. Would you be my friend if I weren't paying your mortgage? No, I would not. Would you like to think about it more? You know, you're a lot, you can be a lot, but I would, you know what, I don't want to say a jokey thing. I would actually be your friend because you're, you're, you're cool. You're kind of cool. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, that was, that was uninspiring. You know, that wasn't the rousing speech, the Churchillian speech I wanted to hear at this moment.

Russell, what do you think? I have the capacity to be a good friend. I know I do, but it would help if I employed you. Yeah, definitely. I reckon that would certainly make me more enthusiastic. You know, enthusiasm means the energy of God, the presence of God in a project. And I reckon if you were to pay me just a stipend, just a stipend, not talking about an enormous wage payment, I'm not unrealistic. What do I offer? Another narcissist who's slightly different in ways that aren't necessarily monetizable. I'm not going to increase your audience. I'm not going to do anything for you. I'm not even Andy. What's the point? You're acquiring sidekicks at a rate of knots. Your sidekicks are subdividing. There probably going to be another sidekick on that panel by the end of this fucking conversation.

You're right. You're right. I'm sorry, Russell, please. Please stop yelling at me. And this is not a criticism of you. I love you. Well, I love you as well, and I mean that. I've been an admirer of yours for many years, and I will pay you a stipend. I think that's what we call it, stipend. You said stipend? How do you say it? Yeah, stipend, stipend. And what I'd like you to do is for a moment, reflect on what the language you speak is called, and then determine who's correct on that basis. I speak West Los Angeles, Queens, English. Listen, I want to tell you that I grew up in, this just comes to mind, but I grew up just outside Boston, and I grew up visiting my grandparents in Worcester and going to Sturbridge and driving through Cambridge and Needham and Framingham. And then later on, as a young lad, I started to read about England, and I honestly thought that you guys took those names from us.

I really believed it, and I thought, who the fuck are they to be taking our town? I remember voicing that to someone and them correcting me and me feeling ashamed. But anyway, I just grew up with that narcissistic American belief that we created everything. It was we who did it. And then you guys copied us and somehow got a hold of a time machine. I suppose that's the kind of certainty that's required to build an empire. If like America had no self-confidence, if America thought, I'm not sure that this is right. How do you, for example, I don't know, fund international wars against your ideological opponents, unless there's a sort of certainty that you're right? And I'm not suggesting this is unique to American people or the American nation, because Britain did it for, you know, a good few centuries as well.

The assumption of correctness, correctness of our perspective, which is one of the things that we're seeing now, this sort of fragmenting of the presumed universal as identity politics is on the rise, rage in politics on the rise, a sense of, well, who are we? What is it to be an American anymore? And why the hell are there so many places called Cambridge? Okay, well, listen, I'm going to say two things, Russell. First, Russell is in England right now. And I am usually, I like to do these interviews in the same room, but because of the international pandemic. What?

Yes, I'll tell you, hang on, I'll tell you more. We are doing this over a zoom line, and I'm watching Russell as he drinks probably the largest bottle of water I've seen in the last easy 20 years. But I'm going to say two things, Russell. First, I'm going to say the moment I sense even the slightest atom of anti-American sentiment, this interview is over. Because I won't have that, not on this show. This show is very pro-American, jingoistic. And second of all, I agree with everything you just said. I think on a slightly serious note, I think blind certainty has probably driven most of mankind.

I'm not saying for the better, but just in a direction. The certainty that we deserved this continent and that anybody in our way should die, that made everything happen and led to the McDonald's arch. So I don't know if that's a good thing. I think it's probably a bad thing, but it's what happened. And as you said, you guys did it before us, and the French did it, the Romans did it, everybody did it. It's the imperative. I am certain. Yeah, I think that the certainty begins even before the verb in the sentence. It begins with the I.

What is this perspective from which we observe things that to which we immediately apply a lens of preferences? I like this, I dislike that. What is this I? Man, I've been spending a lot of time on my own Conan. I know, I could tell. You immediately have gone to, you know, most people spend, at least on my podcast, at least spend at least the first 15, 20 minutes talking about, you know, what kind of genes they prefer or their diet or something about their career. You within seconds went to what is I, which I admire. That's something I admire.

What is receiving the senses? What is behind the lens Conan? I mean, what's happened is, I think I've like, I've not required as much therapy because, you know, I'm not going out as much. So I'm not talking to people. If I'm not talking to people, I don't require as much therapy. I don't require as many support groups. But what's happened is, is I've drifted into this sort of low level, lethargic state of constant reflection and dismantling, you know, meditate, like through meditate. The only thing that keeps me normal is fact I've got two young daughters and there's no room there for any of this existential inquiry.

Simply wipe up the urine. That's all that's required. That happens again later in life, Russell. I'm just telling you, I'm a bit older than you and I'm telling you that there's another phase of where is the where did this urine come from? But we'll get into that later. You know, I had the experience of when my first child was born, I have two children. They're a bit older than your children. My children are in their mid sixties.

My daughter, when she was born, my first child, I remember she was born and I was right there and helped take the baby out of my wife and cut the umbilical cord. Much more involved than I wanted to be. I wanted to be watching it all on Skype from a five star hotel hundreds of miles away. But what happened was I received this, this baby and my immediate thought was, oh, I don't matter anymore. And I thought that in a positive way, like that was the time that I felt this thing lifting of, I mean, clearly I've been on a journey since a youth, too. I sometimes walk around our offices and it's just filled with fan artwork and giant posters that say Conan and Conan and Conan and Conan and the show's called Conan. And I'd make all my employees brand Conan under their ass. So I've been driven by this something.

And then it really did bring me a long way towards, oh, fuck it. I don't matter is when my my children were born. That helped a lot. Yeah, it's um, I've one of the things I'm thinking about a lot at the moment during my mental breakdown is the appearance of the sacred in the ordinary. And I suppose what the way that many of us experience that is through the birth of our children, the disruption of every day. But even this interruption that we're globally experiencing is a an opportunity to reflect on what we assume is normal. Like now that going to a supermarket say has become this bizarre, fantastical experience, this sort of odd, vulcanized trip to the supermarket to me as a part. And it's made me realize supermarkets are always strange. All of civilization is strange.

We're living amidst so many strange assumptions. It's so seldom now in this the fragment in times that I've already referenced that there is a kind of certainty, like the certainty of knowing that you love a child. The recognition in that moment of, oh, yeah, I don't really, I don't really matter. It's a positive thing because I imagine you've grappled with the idea of not mattering quite a lot. I mean, how else? How dare you, sir? How dare you? How dare you, sir? How dare you? How can you be? Oh, surely you must. Oh, I wish I was wearing a monocle right now so it could fall out.

Registering surprise. Yeah, no, I, well, I mean, I think we have this in common. I don't understand anybody who could possibly be in comedy who didn't have a very anxious and somewhat unsettled childhood. That started working so furiously at an early age that now I live in a, I'm like a Batman villain. I live in a lair and everything. I'm just surrounded by my name and large type and everybody's working on the Conan project. And you're like, oh, Jesus. So this, and I think you had a little bit of that similar feeling in childhood. You were not always the Russell brand we see. You know, as a right anxious, nervous, ferrity little boy, twitchy little creature. Would you not through wiring? If I got access to wiring, my incisors were straight in it. Otherwise the damn things, they keep on growing. They keep on burrowing down little ivory little spears. The amount of calcium I'm going through. So you were an anxious kid. Yeah, very much. And I was trying to, I want to know when you felt that anxiety abate.

The first time I, like, listen, this is pretty telling. Like, I suppose, like the first times I felt aligned connected or like I was good at something. First was being in a school play and people laughing and thinking, oh my God, I'm good at something. And then just a few years later on the streets of Patpong, Thailand, when some sex workers left their posts, Conan, to pursue me at 16 down the street. And my dad looked approvingly. Let's examine that moment. They just like the cut of your gym. They left their posts. A sex worker must never leave their posts, not on the, in the Patpong district. Those posts are hard one, those pictures. They came after me and I remember feeling terribly fulfilled by the whole experience. Not carnally or even concupacently.

Oh my God. Fantastic. Just fantastic. Thank you so much. That's the approval I live for. But just for the, in fact, I would argue that all addictive behaviors or habitual behaviors, and I reckon you're a workaholic, are a sort of personal strategy for dealing with feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness. And it's no coincidence that I perhaps went on to act out a lot sexually, you know, I think, given that original impulse, not to mention certain obvious other drives. Let's just call them drives, Conan. Yes, yes, we'll leave that. No, I, I've never been pursued by sex workers at any age. And I've never had them leave their posts for me. They stay in their station today.

Yes, the sex workers. They remain at their station. Here's what I think, Russell. I think I'm equally attractive as you. I just think that I encounter sex workers that take their profession more seriously and will not leave their post. I think they are just as enraptured by me as those sex workers were by you. The Hippocratic oath of sex work, of do no wrong and do not leave your post, is absolutely vital. These sex workers that you've been parading past, I'm troubled. They're a higher quality, clearly.

And I see us as, yeah, you and I are identical. Give or take a few drops of pigment. Yes, yes, you have a nice, I envy you. You have that, that jet black hair. I know that you can tan up very nicely. You have that olive skin hue. I am a white rice pudding that has just started to turn, has just started to go bad. I think you're beautiful and you look like those, those when they do like that opera in Japan where they have lovely white faces. You're talking about kabuki, yes. I'd say that you're sort of Irish kabuki, Celtic kabuki with Conan. Now, there's an item. I'm already playing off my stipend. Celtic kabuki with Conan.

Yes, see? And so now, for God's sake, give it a bit of femininity. I'm sorry. Stippend, you'll get your stippend, you'll get your tuppence, you'll get your, you'll get your farthing. I knew that goose in the window on Christmas Day. Today's Christmas Day. I can't help it and I'm going to hell. But yeah, I think, I remember my memories of being in the schoolyard and I had found a cane and I was doing some bits with it, some shtick. And I crossed one leg over the other, knocking the cane out accidentally.

A lot chaplain and fell over and a bunch of kids laughed. That is in 3D high-def in my mind. And I can't remember my wedding day. So this is the sadness of the whole thing. But I remember very clearly thinking, oh, that's the way through. That's how I'll make it. Yeah. And to our earlier point about certainty, this moment that you're describing, I think has been characterised as like sometimes as epiphany or connection or meeting the daemon or the spirit or the gin. Just in some moment, recognising this is who I am. This is what I'm about. I'm not just a featureless Celtic kabuki fella. I'm a man with purpose and an ability to carry off an admittedly plagiarised physical piece of comedy.

Yes. Well, put from one of the greats, Charlie Chaplin. So I'll do that. You know, yeah, it's funny because I have a very vivid memory of the first time I met you. You were becoming very talked about comedian and you came on my late night show in New York. And I had seen clips of you performing and I thought, well, he's very funny and he's very different. And I went backstage just before you came out and you were pacing like a lion in a cage. You were pacing. You were worked up into a state and you were pacing and you came out and you perched on the furniture and you were so in the moment. And it was hilarious. It was really funny. But I remember thinking this guy approaches this in this life or death way and I prefer this to the kind of casual guy puts out his cigarette,

walks out there, does his thing. I don't know if you have, if that was the way you always were backstage. But I remembered that moment very clearly. Like you, with your story, with your cane, when you as a kid, I felt very connected to comedy. It felt like something that's always been there for me, always been real for me and has made being who I am something bearable. It's been hard, I've felt. Amidst the narcissism and the self-aggrandizing shtick, I've had a lot of mental health issues and drug issues, which I've obviously banged on about and metastasized into all sorts of, frankly, money. It's been lucrative. Russell, all of us, I mean, first of all, you shouldn't feel bad about that. You have made your pain lucrative. And that is the essence of what we do.

I've had some very lucrative mental illnesses over the years. Everything you do becomes monetizable. As a person that was really famous for a little bit, it was weird to be caught in that tundra, in that tunnel. And I still sometimes want it. I still sometimes think, oh, you should be a bit more famous, actually. You should be being in more films, on some bigger posters and stuff. And then I remember it actually made me feel physically sick and ill the whole time. But I don't know what to do with these drives anymore, man. The one thing that I almost feel is like my duty as a human being is to try and tell as many people as I can that fame in and of itself is a clear broth with absolutely no nutrition. It's hardly surprising that so many people have it, given its ubiquity. And even your description of fame as a broth, I would query, I think it's completely, I would say it's more like a synthetic saliva, a foaming synthetic saliva made outside of the body.

Okay, okay. Well, why can't we agree that, yes, mine is a nutritionless broth. Yours is a foaming saliva made outside the body. Why can't we say that it's a saliva made outside the body consisting of a nutritionless broth? Why can't we agree? Why is my ego now asserting itself that I can't be wrong about the broth and that you have to give me some credence on the broth? If you and I can't find some peace over this broth stroke synthetic saliva hydra that we're making right now with our minds, then what hope is there in the Middle East? What hope is there in fragmented America? What hope is there in post-Brexit Britain? What hope is there that this coronavirus will lead to some kind of global awakening where we recognise we're living in synthetic systems, much like that synthetic saliva, which could never be compared to a broth, in my view. Damn you! Damn you, you won that round. All right, all right, I yield the floor. I would kill to be an incredibly cool influencer and to be going out with any, you know, any Hadid, you know, if they were age-appropriate.

Killing could be a good angle, perhaps a spate of indiscriminate slaying. Yes, yes, murder. Yes, has there been an Instagram murderer yet? Not yet, Conan. Not yet. Not yet. And I said right then, we've got ourselves a number one record. We'll remember this moment. But that's all of us. All of us are, you could get 10,000 great reviews online.

But that's why I don't go anywhere near this stuff. And then one person says, I don't know, I think he sucks. And that's what you're going to be thinking about as you drift off to sleep. I think what you're describing is Zing hyperinflation, which occurred in Germany after the Treaty of Versailles after the Second World War. So in a sense, we can blame the Allies like a big wheelbarrow full of Zings and want to get a loaf of bread. That's probably not even that nice. Certainly not sourdough. No, it's a well-known historic fact that after World War One resolved that the Allies imposed too harsh a penalty on Germany and led to the collapse of their currency, the Zings. And that resentment of Zing loss later on and Zing hyperinflation led to World War Two.

So this is all leading to another cataclysm if we're not careful. One plucky little guy saw an opportunity there in that absence of Zings and thought, I can really start corralling the Zings if I can get my costume right. Did you just describe Adolf Hitler as a plucky little guy? I watch a lot of history documentaries. I read a lot about the Second World War. Never, ever have I heard anyone describe Adolf Hitler arguably in the running with Stalin as one of the worst despots of any century as a plucky little guy. It's very easy to focus on the negative. So let me get this straight then. What would Stalin be if Adolf Hitler was a plucky little guy? What is Stalin? Is he a kindly old man with a bit of a hitch in his step? What do you say?

I think he's an adorable old uncle. A broom-snouted living cuddle. I would love to hear your history of the 20th century with everyone described, oh, Mao. Twinkling his eye, Mao. A sympathetic look at dictators. Yeah, no, but you're right. Hitler, if you think about it, if you really want to get... He capitalized on people's anger over negative Zings and tried to hyperinflate positive Zings. This analysis will end up... I'll go to prison, I think, probably, ultimately, for this analysis. Later, yes. The sign wrap-up was held aloft, I think, somewhat in the response of our repositioning of Adolf Hitler as a plucky little guy rather than one of history's great monsters.

Well, what we're just seeing is the other side of the coin. That's all. And I know that there'll be letters written because I think it's 1925. That's right. I know that disapproving letters will be written and put in the post, I think, as you like to say, Russell. Yes, yes, that's one of our idioms. They're all our idioms. Do you get on the lift or you get on an elevator? I get on the lift. Do you go to the bathroom or do you go to the loo?

I go to the lavy. I say, sir, I want to go to the lavy or the water closet. If someone says, do you mean the bathroom, I roll my eyes and just pass a stool there and then in my house. LAUGHTER It's not going to be so horribly euphemistic. LAUGHTER Now you're going to have to deal with a smear on your linoleum. LAUGHTER Oh, man! Oh, man!

I can ask you a serious question quickly. Here it is. Yes. Even though we've seen that sign saying, wrap up, this is what it is. Oh, don't pay attention to it. They have no power over us just because you saw on Zoom one of my producers roll his eyes past the stool and hold up a wrap it up sign. That gentleman has his own microphone and several banjos. LAUGHTER That's Matt Gorley. He has that authority. I've been deputized, so this is just a suggestion. You guys do what you need to do.

There was a question mark, actually. I didn't pay full attention to the grammar. It didn't have an exclamation mark, wrap up, or ellipses wrap up into the limitless abyss of nothingness. It was wrap up. This is my least favorite part of the job. I hate doing this part. Yeah, don't worry. We despise you as well. I know, I know. Please, I didn't mean that. That was just a simple and crude jab. Russell, what's your question? Even though you may be the physical opposite of that plucky little guy from the 30s and 40s, in terms of your nature, you are his twin. Now, the question, that's for sure.

You get no argument from anybody in my camp there. You've been the longest serving, and I don't mean to compare it to a prison sentence, late night talk show in America. Why do you think there is such consistent visual grammar? Why do you think that the late night talk show is such a constant in American cultural life? What does it say? The desk, the cityscape, or even variations on it such as your own fall lunar revelation? What does it mean? Why is it like that? Why is that type of television so important? What role does it play? What is America being told about itself by those shows? It's interesting. I've thought about this a lot. The late night talk show, a lot of people don't know this, but it came to life or it sprung up.

Out of network television came along and they realized, well, this is quite profitable. And then one person said, hey, at 1130 at night, everything just goes dark. What if we just threw something on there and it didn't cost that much to make? We might make some money off of it. And so literally it's the analogy is that it was people living in a house and they one day realized we've got a huge attic that we could just do whatever we want with. There's no pressure and who cares if it works or it doesn't. And that's where you get Steve Allen starts to mess around with it and he's an inventive guy. And you look at those old tapes and they're literally just killing time.

They're literally, I mean, they're doing some very inventive things and some very funny things, but especially in the early episodes in 1954, 55, 56, 10 minutes can go by where they're just sort of discussing, oh, I found this today in a shop and look at this, you wind it up and isn't that interesting? Look at that. It just sort of goes. Isn't that cool? Yeah, I found that in a shop and Chesterfield cigarettes, by the way, that's a good cigarette. It's got a cool menthol flavor, you know, and that's what they would do. And then there'd be some comedy, but a lot of time killing and those shows went on for two hours. Sometimes they just went on forever. And then through the years it got refined and refined.

And what happened is the space in the attic became insanely lucrative. And so that just led to, I mean, Johnny Carson was on for 30 years. And if you think Jack Parr and Steve Allen are on for between them 10 years before that, there's 40 years. And then these other hosts come along. There's Letterman, who's doing the sort of anti-talk show. But even to do the anti-talk show, you need the same visual reference points, which is it's something that was so anarchic about what David Letterman did is it looked kind of like Carson, but it was demented. You know, there was a desk and there was a band, but it was all slightly off and he was slightly off. He wasn't wearing this. He was wearing a suit, a suit jacket and a tie, but he was also wearing tennis sneakers with it.

And the whole thing had a weird feel to it. And it was on even later than most talk shows. It was on at 1230. And so that's when people of my generation who had grown up with Carson, we saw Letterman. But I think it's almost this idea that I actually kind of believe in myself when I was doing the late night show, is I always wanted these symbols of normalcy to be there. I wanted the desk to be there and the sidekick and for it to sort of appear normal. And that would make the strangeness even much more strange. Do you know what I mean? I needed the straight line in order to then depart from it. Does that make sense? What I just babbled? Yeah, it's weird though, isn't it? Because the emergence of like, I understand it was economically driven.

As you know, to my earlier point, most things are economically driven and economically sustained. And if they can't operate under those terms, it doesn't matter how good they are or if they're good. The metric by which good is established is an economic one. I can see that that's its point of origin. But it's peculiar to me and that's probably this could apply to any emergent form. The consistency of there is the desk, there are the chairs, there is the cityscape. Most regularly, most usually it's a male. It's sort of a significant beam in the architecture of your country. If you were showing a montage of America along with the aforementioned McDonald's arches and Elvis Presley and Hendricks or whatever, at some point you would demonstrate these figures that come out that do the monologue in front of the curtain.

It's saying something about America. And I wonder what it is. And I wonder that there can be, like you said, like yourself or Letterman, there can be pretty challenging and definitely very, very funny comment and content on there. But it still somehow is an establishment form. And not least because you say like the whole thing is held together by marketing. Yeah, but it's changing a lot. I mean, it's changed a lot in the last, it used to be that there were two or three, I mean, there used to be one show years and years and years ago. Then there were two, then there were three, and then it just exploded. And because of cable and because of streaming and because of just the ubiquity of ways of entertaining people,

there's now so many shows, I think it's going through a huge transformation. Like I think they used to be strictly comedic or they were thought of as entertainment. And now I think more and more of them are about, there's more and more punditry in late night. They get angry and they say, hey, I don't really like what the president said today. And there's sometimes you watch it and you think like this is drifting from comedy to just opinion and anger. And some people really like that. But it's just morphed. You wouldn't see that. I don't think you'd see that 15, 20 years ago. You might see tones of it, but it would all be couched in comedy as there are times where I can watch someone on late night

and then I can watch MSNBC and there doesn't seem to be that much of a difference. They're both angry about what the president did today. And so I think it's morphing a lot. I don't think we'll have again what we in America had in the 1970s and 80s, which is one person put us to bed at night. Which sounds creepy. An older man would put us to bed. But it was one guy and he was the most famous person in America. He was arguably more famous than the president at any given time, Johnny Carson. And then I don't think we'll ever see that again because there's currently, I think, 900 talk shows in America.

No one person has that power. 900 of them and I still couldn't make one work Conan, in spite of your willingness to attend a production meeting and give me a helping hand, which I will always remember and appreciate. It seems to me that your key devotion then is the comedy that I noticed that you're careful not to be critical of people that use it as a place for punditry. But that's not what interests you. And I don't get the sense that that is because you want to maintain some ambiguity as not to deter audience. No, no, no. I bow to the god of comedy. And that's the cross I'll die on, he said, mixing metaphors.

But I very much, to me, it's is this funny and is it silly? And does it my favorite things I think would be funny to an adult and to a child. And those are my favorite kinds of comedy, even going back to when I was a kid and I did a cheap site gag by knocking a cane out of the way and falling down. Accidentally, I think I was always drawn to silliness. I love Pink Panther, Peter Sellers. There's just a commitment to it's laughing at pomposity and a silly man. That's that's always the way I'm going to go. And that's that's the thing that gets me up in the morning and keeps me in this business as the.

I always think when people say, oh, you're the longest, you know, serving talk show host. It always sounds like you've stayed at the party too long. I don't think anyone should get credit for you've stayed at this party longer than anyone, Conan. Congratulations. Yeah, exactly. I'm drunk and I don't want to drive home. Yeah, I like that. It seems to me that you've got appetite for the the universal and the thing that in common. I think a lot about some of the great comics that I adore and admire.

Say, for example, you know, like Sellers or the British comedian Tommy Cooper. But there's, you know, countless comedians is I feel like there's a sort of a sense. And I think you have this actually of alluding to a secondary, ever present frequency that we're all aware is constantly there. That we're all playing our roles in like, hello, I'm me. This is important. I've got to get this done. At the moment you can peek behind the veil and go, this is ridiculous. None of this matters. It's all we're all dying. It's all falling apart.

There's something sort of very beautiful about that, I think. Well, I think it's just just I think silliness gets dismissed a lot as as just that being silly. Oh, that's just silly. It's not important. And I think, well, there's nothing more important than silliness. And some of my favorite kinds of comedy. I was just showing my kids this the other day because I absolutely loved it. But it's from one of it's maybe the fourth Pink Panther film. Peter Sellers is is Inspector Clouseau and he comes in and he's upstairs in this mansion.

He's told the Butler assemble everybody because I want to question them. I want to question everybody in the about the murder. So they're all assembling downstairs and he's upstairs walking around and then he sees these parallel bars and anyone can look this up. It's just a great, great piece of just comedy with a capital C and he gets on the parallel bars. And he's wearing his full trench coat or think in his hat. And he's he's saying, ah, yes, I was this I was quite the master of the parallel bars. And he's he's doing all this kind of pompous back and forth. And then he goes for the dismount and you haven't noticed this, but there's a stairway there that goes downstairs.

And he does a dismount and just falls out of frame. And then you cut to the room where all the people are assembled and he tumbles into frame. And it's hilarious. And then he stands up and refuses to acknowledge that he just fell down a full flight of stairs and immediately launches into this kind of aggressive, Asaholic questioning of this. And I think like, OK, if anyone asks me what I'm about, it's that I just love that that whatever Peter Sellers did right there, that it doesn't get better than that. Thank you. It's very beautiful. I was thinking that how do you write that? You know, how do you write that?

With language and words, you're spotting patterns. You just keep talking something coming in the end. But how do you have the sort of perspective of, right, we'll set up parallel bars. Unseen in the frame will be that you just try. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just it's just pomposity immediately revealed. But then he refuses to acknowledge it and goes right to you, madam. I mean, anyone else in their right mind would leave the room humiliated. But no, Clouseau goes on the on the attack immediately.

Yeah, you know, we should probably, you know, did you get everything? Yes, that would be really nice. Actually, I know we live. I'm going to calculate 6000 miles apart. Yes. But the human heart is a powerful organ, as is the human genital. Well, then, yeah, love does conquer all. So we will, we'll be friends.

I'm a bit more fretful in real life. Yeah, I know. But you'll be fine. We'll be friends. We'll be friends. And I'll say this, I think one of the reasons, because I have the visual of you right here in my face on screen, and it's been very calming to talk to a circa 1977 George Harrison. You've really looked exactly like him at this phase right now.

And I found like, and he was the most, I think, centered and spiritual of the Beatles. And I keep thinking every now and then because the visual is so convincing. Yes, George Harrison circa 1977, he wants to be my friend. I live just around the corner from Friar Park, where George Harrison spent the later part of his life and where he died, actually, and friends with Danny, his son. And, you know, I love George a lot. He sort of, it's like he got bored of fame at about 20. Yeah.

He was about 20 years old. He thought, oh, this is bullshit. I get it. Yeah, I love George Harrison. I think he was. I know that. I know Danny a bit and I, he's always been lovely to me and he gave me a tour of that house.

Oh, wow. It's an amazing place, huh? So I've been, I've been over there and that's a lovely, lovely part of England. Just gorgeous. I had a very funny experience. Just we'll wrap up on this and which is, I may have mentioned this once before on the podcast, but it's too perfect. I was in London about seven years ago.

One booked me a reservation at a place called Jilton Firehouse and I didn't know anything, but apparently that's where people go to get their picture taken. And so I'm at Jilton Firehouse meeting, I think an executive at Turner who had booked the reservation and we have our dinner and I walk out and there's about 70 paparazzi there, you know, sort of London paparazzi and one of them took a picture of me. So suddenly all the lenses came up and 75 lenses of, you know, flash bulbs started flashing, flashing, flashing, flashing, flashing, you know, like that footage you see of Princess Diana, you know, not long before she died, just anywhere she went, just flash, flash,

flash, flash, flash, flash. And I had that split second of being a famous person in London and then started to turn to walk up towards, to find a cab up the street and all the flashes stopped. And I realized, and one guy in the crowd in a thick accent said, hey, who the fuck are you? And I realized in that second that one guy out of 75 said, he looks like someone, you know, he looks like some Belgian actress. One guy fired off his camera, which caused all the other mousetraps to fire off.

And then they all were like, these guys didn't know, I mean, they might know more now because of the whatever the, but they still wouldn't care. And this one guy said, who the fuck are you? And I just thought I'd make a joke. So I said, I am a male model in, from Berlin. And they were like, ah, fuck off, you know, and it was just this great, that is a great encapsulation of the sudden rush of, wow, look at me, all these flash bulbs going off. I'm George Michael in London circa 1987.

And then immediately who the fuck are you? And then walking up the street in the dark to find a cab. That's the essence of the broth, not saliva. Don't you dare, don't you dare try and go out on that insipid broth. Nope. I win again. I always win. Conan, are you game to answer some questions we have from some of our listeners?

Of course. I love and respect our listeners and I'm always here for them. Oh, okay. That's very sweet. And I want to answer all of their questions with great candor. Okay. So the first question is from at C Massey C. Dear Sona, do you need a break? A break?

A break from what? From you, obviously. From me? What are you talking about? We've been shut down. We're not doing shows. You are in, what is this place called? What is it?

Altadena. Yes, it's Altadena. I can't find one. By the way, I've bought many maps of California. I can't find one that says Altadena. But anyway. Hey, well, who buys maps these days? Just look on your phone.

I got them from an old guy named Gus. Yeah? Yeah, he has an old filling station. He's your map dealer. That's cool. He has good maps. Anyway, you live far away in Altadena and you... Not that far.

Pretty far. Not that far. Yeah. Okay. Long time. Far away. Okay. Not that far.

All right, go ahead. There are no birds there. Yes, I need a break. Birds can't get to Altadena. Yes. The answer is yes. The only way a bird can get to Altadena is if it takes an Uber. You're not working right now.

Yes, I am. I mean, right now you and I are doing this podcast, but this is 1% of our day. Most of the time, you are home and you're with your dog, Oki, and you're chilling it with your main squeeze, your husband, tech, tichesian, what's his last name? You can't just take someone's first name and then add Ian at the end of it and then say that that's just their last name. That's not how Armenian name works. Cher's Armenian and her real name is Cher-Sher-Erian.

That's a true story. Oh, it's a true story? Yep. So it's true if you say it is. Okay. Okay. Yes, I need a break. From what?

You're at home all the time. You must be dying to get back to work. No. I like this distance from you. Oh, you, I'm sorry. Did you just say that you like this pandemic? Why don't you say that? Okay.

Is that what you said? No, I didn't. Because I don't. I'm against it. I want everyone to be well. What's your position? You're the other position? Oh, you're the position that you don't like the pandemic.

Okay, that's good. Yeah. And then you're arguing the other side. No, you do your part. No. How are you pro-pandemic? I think that this pandemic is that I don't have to see you every day, you're exhausting, and you know that.

So yeah, I need a break. I need a break now, because I feel like I didn't have a break for a long time. So it's like residual Conan-ness still in my life, and I need a break from that. You must miss me though. The day in and day out back and forth we have that sort of Spencer Tracy, Catherine Hepburn, two people that been dead for a while, you know, that kind of thing, that kind of chemistry. That's a really good reference. Yeah.

Oh, sorry. Could you have thought of an older reference? Okay. I'm a native, relate to the kids today, Seals and Croft, you know. There you go. Wait, who are they? Who is that? They were the big hit makers of the 70s, Seals and Croft.

Oh, okay. Can you think of people who are deader? Oh, that's, you know, I know what young people listen to. They're listening to like, logins in Messina, you know. I know what's happening out there. Oh my God. And when it comes to rap, the old Salt and Pepper. So don't tell me I don't know what's happening right now.

Yeah, I need a break. Well, you'll get it. What does that mean? I mean, they'll be, we'll phase you out somehow, I just don't know how to do it. Trying to, for years. Oh, okay. Trying to. Aren't you in a position of power to fire me?

You can't just fire me? I've looked into it. There is so much against you. You are a barnacle that just really is hugging onto that. We've taken the boat out of the ocean. We've put it up in dry dock. We've chiseled away at this one barnacle and we can't get it off the hull of the boat. Because it says, I'm Sona and I'm sticking around.

Do you like that analogy? You're now a barnacle on the SS Conan. What a terrible thing to say. On the SS Conan? Yeah. I'm the ship. I need a break. I need a break.

You're the barnacle. I need a break. Let's take another question. Okay. Atlurbin says, if you had to fire Matt or Sona, who would you choose? Matt. Oh. I'm sorry.

Did I say that too quickly? You know, now that he's not here, I'm going to say I'm cool with it. Yeah. You and I have been together a long time. Matt Goorley, I met him like a year ago, literally. They walked into a room. They said, hey, do you want to do a podcast? I said, maybe.

They brought in a giant box that said producers on it and they opened it and a bunch of producers fell on the floor and he was the one that rolled closest to me. And I said, I guess this one. And he said, I'm a Goorley. So yeah, you and I have been through thick and thin. So now we have traveled the globe. We've been in lots of scrapes, Goorley, sure, I love the guy. I feel a little bad that I said it so quickly.

You said it so, you didn't even think about it first. Yeah, we could probably in editing add more time and then add like a different voice that's clearly not mine going, hmm, this is a tough one. I have to think about this. And then slow down me going, Goorley, so it goes, Goorley. I know what's sad is Goorley's going to have to do it. Goorley's the one who's not here today. He's the one that's going to have to do it just to save himself.

So it goes from, who would you between Sona and Goorley? It goes to between Sona, hmm, let me think about it, Goorley. I love Goorley. I mean, I don't know what's wrong with me. I love to, I grew up in a family where we were taught to never show love, only the prickly barbs of wit, if you can even call that wit, I think it's just cruelty. Yeah. Yeah, we called it wit.

I asked my brother, Nia, when I was like five, what's wit? And he just hit me over the head with a clock radio and he said, that's wit. So that's what I've grown up thinking. Sweet. Yeah. He taught me. I will say it's nice to have Goorley around because when you start to make fun of me, then you could just go on a rant about him.

It's nice to have him deflect, but it's true. I miss him when he's not here. Yeah. You know. All right. What's next? At Bostonian underscore New Yorker says, hey, Conan, lots of Americans here, New York, don't really wear gloves or masks or give social distance.

How should I distance myself in a full subway train? That's a tough one. That's a lot. It's a legitimate question. A lot of people are asking the first thing I would say, I don't know why you're asking me. This is a serious question. This is a question for a health professional.

I'm the worst person you could ask. But if you're asking what I would do, I think we have the right to ride up in the conductor's compartment. No. No one's ever explicitly said, I've never seen a sign that says you can't ride with the conductor. And if there's a sign that says you can't ride with the conductor, then I listen to it. But if I don't see that sign, I would force my way into that compartment.

Every time I see train cars empty, it's because a homeless person is usually shitting in a corner or throwing up, or is there something to that, to shitting in a corner of a subway train? I've never missed Coraline Moore. Well, I'm going to say this. I don't know. I don't know. I would say you can't get on the subway car if you're worried about it.

You've got to wait till the subway car leaves and then walk the tracks in the tunnel wearing a dark sweater. Wait, don't do that. No. Don't do that. No. Don't do that. Don't do that.

Wait a minute. I'm exploring ideas out loud. Don't do them until I've found one I like. You could ride on top of the subway. No. Don't do that. Don't do that. How about you just don't take the subway?

Okay. Well, that's very entitled of you, Miss Princess. But some people have to take the subway. I mean, are there no other ways to get around? The cabs are very expensive. You are so out of touch. That's the problem. People like me who were down there in the streets, we know what's going on.

And then people like you who are living off in, ooh, oh, to Dina, ooh, and you're up in your high ivory tower. You don't know what's happening. A lot of people can't afford to take a cab. I can't believe you're so out of touch. I'm sorry. I mean, I will say I've been to New York with you many times. I have never seen you on the subway.

Well, that's because you don't come with me. I have my own subway car. Oh. I have a private subway car when I'm in New York. That seems like a waste of resources. Well, it's my own subway car. It's wood paneled. There's a butler.

What if I had my own subway car when I visited New York City and it was wood paneled and I was always drinking like some cognac in there and it was attached to the rest of the subway and it was going through the Bronx or Queens and people were like, what the fuck is that? What's that? Is that Conan O'Brien in there? And I was like, well, hello. And I was toasting them all through my window.

Hello. Well, you can't get in. This is my private car. What a horrible guy. I don't know. I like him. You like him? Okay.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Sonamov Sessian and Conan O'Brien as himself. Produced by me, Matt Gorley, executive produced by Adam Sacks and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf, theme song by the White Stripes, incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. The show is engineered by Will Bekton. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review featured

on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.