Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Sir Paul McCartney

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

Sir Paul McCartney feels wildly elated about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Paul and Conan sit down for a live conversation about the incredible photographs chronicling The Beatles’ first transatlantic trip featured in Paul’s new book 1964: Eyes of the Storm. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hey Conan here and for me this is a very exciting episode of Conan O'Brien needs a friend because I got to sit down and chat with Paul McCartney. I got to sit with Paul on stage in front of an amazing audience and discuss his new book, 1964, Eyes of the Storm, which is out now. The thing you need to know about this book and it's very cool is it's a collection of photos that Paul took pretty much over like a three-month period during that incredible time in 1963 and 1964 when Beatlemania exploded and they came to America. The book showcases 275 of McCartney's rediscovered photos. He didn't even know he had these. It's fun to go through them and talk to Paul

and we had a lot of fun. To see some of the photos we discussed in this episode, follow at Team Coco on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. And remember, you can always go out and get the book and follow along. It's a fascinating document. And remember, you can always go out and get the book and follow along. It's a fascinating document. Hi, my name is Paul McCartney.

And I feel wildly elated about being Colonel Bryant's friend. Oh my God. All right. Now. That's it. Oh my God, all right. Now. That's it. Good night. Thank you. Oh. Thank you, that's... Thank you very much. Please!

Thank you very much. Please! Please, thank you very much. That was almost long enough. Thank you! Such a delight to be here tonight at the Tribeca Festival. And as you know, this is, or maybe you have been told, this is going to be an episode of my podcast Colonel Brian needs a friend yeah and I desperately still need a friend

there's one rule in show business which is when you're sharing a bill with Paul McCartney you waste no time. Not a second. Every second I'm out here is excruciating for all of you. The biggest name in show business is right behind that carton. And I'm out here being a jackass, because that's what I do. I am thrilled that he's here. We're going to be talking about and going through a book of photos never before seen. 1964, the eyes of the storm. Trill of a lifetime to be able to say, ladies and gentlemen, Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.

Thank you. Woo! Yes! All right. All right. Here we go. Paul, do you...does it ever get old getting that reaction? Does it ever ever get old? No. And I would like to hear all the girls give a beatle screen, please. Yeah! Oh, I'm incredible. Incredible. I don't know about you, but I'm sterile now. That was, uh...

That's a pitch. I don't hear much in my profession. Absolute joy to be sitting with you here. This is fantastic. As you know, this is a podcast. Listen to billions of people all around the world. Don't laugh at that. That's just mean. Hundreds of people around the world. Well, let's dive right into it. First of all, this book is extraordinary. You took these photographs.

I think you got a Pentax camera. In 1963, I think you and all the fellas got Pentax cameras, but you were taking a lot of pictures, and then you forgot you had them. I kind of knew I had them, but I thought I'd lost them. Because in the 60s, a lot of people used to leave the doors open. It was all a bit hippie and you know it's like, yeah man.

That's your summation of the 60s was here. Yeah man. That's all I remember. That's all you remember. Yeah. Now so I thought,, I've lost them. But I was with a photo-archivist in London, Sarah Brown, who was organizing an exhibition of Linda's photographs.

And during me, I just said, well, you know, I took some pictures in the 60s, I said, but I have no idea where they are. She said, oh, yeah no idea where they are. She said, oh, yeah, we've got them. I said, oh, great. Let's have a look. So yeah, it turned out they were like about 300 pictures. It's unbelievable.

Yeah. Unbelievable. And it makes me think, what else do you have that you don't know about? Mm-hmm. That's another story. Well, there are so many photos to look at. And there are so many, I look through the book,

and I adore this book, and I've been through it many times. And the photos take me in different directions. They really are spectacular. I wanted to start out with maybe technically not the most proficient photo, but one that I think is the right place to start, because you were new with the camera you're trying something out let's put this up and this is you

uh... playing looking in the mirror what is this bring back to you does this you train with the camera experimenting uh... yeah i think so you know just uh... you know the idea when you get the camera at first was to just take lots of pictures and then see if they turned out.

And of course, it's not like digital. You had to wait. Yeah. So, you took them. And then they went in England. They went to the chemists, as we called it. Right. And they go down.

They develop it and then, you know, out of weekly, you get your pictures back. So yeah, I think this is me just seeing what I can do. Right. And if I could smoke at the same time. LAUGHTER Looks very cool. I would like to point out that I think when I talk to young people, when I talk to my kids today, they have no idea about the limitations with working with this kind of camera.

We're also used to the phone. We can see it right away. And as you said, these came in rolls of maybe 36 photos. You take them, you don't know. And you also, it's not auto focus. You have to figure out what the F stop is. You have to know all that stuff. It's a whole different world.

Yeah, it's, I like it. Yeah, you know, but I just, it did take some getting used to. But we were lucky because we were often around photographers. Yes. You know, they'd be taking pictures of us for this, that and the other. And so you could talk photography to them and you could say, what is the F-stop in this situation? What are you shooting? 400 ASA?

Okay, well, that will be, and some of the rogues would say, F-A to the fortnight. Just screw with you, yeah. Just to screw me. And also they probably didn't want to give away a trade secret. That's probably true.

Yeah, but we have, it was fun, you know. Yeah, I'm gonna move us on because we have a bunch to see and let's say hi to some of the lads. This is an amazing photo of John. This is Liverpool 1963. What struck me about this photo is that I'm so used to seeing photos where John and all of you are posing for the cameras or pulling a face or projecting that image, because it's you taking the photo, John is very unguarded. Yeah.

I think that's the thing I noticed getting these photos back, that it's just, it's as if I'm not there. So, yeah, you're right, he's unguarded. And I noticed during the exhibition in the book, he's got this little habit, he's not biting his nails, he's just got, he does this all the time. So it's just great to be reminded of it. Because you know, it's so long ago, I'd forgotten that he had that little, that's a John thing.

So, and you know, particularly because he's not here. It's so lovely for me to see these memories and just remind me of where we were, what we did in those days. You know what? Also, sticks out in a lot of these photos because there's a bunch of photos and we'll see this where I see sometimes nerves, a little bit of tension. And what's interesting is everyone in this room, myself included, we know how the story turns out. The Beatles, it's this spectacular success that's never been equaled in show business.

We all know what happens, but especially in these early photos, you guys don't know yet what's going to happen. It's a mystery to you in these moments and people are constantly saying to you, well, you're a big hit in England. When's the bubble going to burst? And sometimes I see that this really picking up steam, but I see in some of these photos, is it going to work out? How long is it going to last? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And what I love about him, he said modestly, is the innocence. Yes.

Because we didn't know we were going to be famous. And we really wanted to be. But as you say, we didn't know. So there's this sort of, we're trying really hard. So someone says, the photographer's, hey, hey, be it all right over here, you know, you would do it. There was no sort of moody like, later for you.

Yeah. So I think that comes over just all this early innocence of us. It's just a cute. There's a lovely one here. I absolutely love this photograph. And I feel like you're rapidly getting more sophisticated, you know, and the blur, you know, that the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, yes, yes. But I mean, this is just a fantastic and again, unguarded, I think. Yeah, I mean, you know, with the Beatles, we knew each other very well before all this happened.

So, for instance, with George and with John on several occasions, I would suggest that we went hitchhiking. So, I knew George as a hitchhiking mate. And again, you're talking about, we didn't know what was gonna happen. Well, you didn't know if you were gonna get lift. So you shared all of that. You sit by the roadside, you know,

just cursing the driver that wouldn't give you a lift. And loving the Laurie driver who did, you know. So that's my little hitchhiking mate. It's funny that that's because it's so personal for you. I often forget how young you guys were. George is the youngest. I think he's 20 here. And you think about just how young all of you were.

It's mind-boggling to me. Yeah, I mean, you know, 20 now from this perspective is like really young. I mean, I've got grandkids older than that. But we didn't think it was young. We thought we were kings of the universe. We smoked cigarettes, man. We had suits and ties. Guitar. We were cool. Thanks for clearing that up. I think he... I think he... I think he...

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where there was something interesting. And Ringo, like all of us, actually, we were smokers. But Ringo would do this trick. Ringo was like, swaff. He had the best car, and he would drink like, bourbon and seven up. Oh! And when he was going on a date with a girl, he'd put two cigarettes in his mouth, unlike them.

Oh, my God. But they'd give one to the girl. If he didn't stick to his lip. Well, you know, that was a window. There was that kind of guy. I've done that with Well, you know that was a rainbow. Yeah, there's that kind of guy. I've done that with gum, and they don't like it. It's not quite so small. It's not the thing.

No, don't try it. We have a photo here that I, again, Mr. Brian Epstein. Yeah. And what's nice here is he's such a pivotal character, especially in these early years in your life. And I know what a complicated life he had, in some ways what a tortured life he had. And you catch him in this moment of,

I just sense, he seems at peace and happy. And I think that might be because you're taking the photo. Yeah. I was very happy to rediscover this picture. I was with all of them. With something like this, it just reminds you that the story about the Beatles manager and you know coming to American all that. He's just some guy and we thought he was like very old. He was all of 30. So to us that was like, but he was a sweetheart and he was gay at a time when it was illegal. So we'd be able to have very interesting conversations with him and he was very open with us.

He was a great guy, very nice man. And I think, like, you guys a little overwhelmed. It got so big, so fast. And I've seen it in different documentaries. I think you're catching it here, which is just no one. He had run a record store just a few years before and met you guys. And then suddenly he's talking to the biggest people in show business and they all want a piece of you guys and he needs to figure it out, which is I must imagine overwhelming.

Yeah, but he had lived very well. He got into that role quite easily. He'd been to Rada in London, the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. So he was going to try and be an actor. He didn't work out. But he had a sort of show business thing. He had a style which he would advise us with some tricks of the trade. You know, so that, where the Beatles at the end of every show would do the bow, you know, that was the kind of thing Brian would say, that would look good.

So we try it, and he was right. It felt good, it looked good, but it gave us a little bit of something that other groups didn't have. This next photo, I don't think anyone here is going to know anybody who's in this photo, but it's fascinating to me because I'm reminded when I look at this book that your musicians, you're on a bill, and here you are on the back, I think the side of the stage, and you're taking a photograph of a group called Peter J and the J-Walkers. And I think they've been lost to us now,

but it's fascinating to me to think about you guys waiting to go on. And there's another group and they have a big saxophone player. Yeah. You guys opted not to go that route. No, no. Think of what you could have done with a saxophone player. Imagine Ringo with a big saxophone. They're phone to blue it, yeah.

You blew it, man. I know. No, you know, you were on package bills. These days it's pretty much the main act and there might be a warm-up act. But then it was a lot of people on the bill, because nobody did long. Now, people do three, four hours. I blame Bruce Springsteen.

Yes. I've told him so. I said, it's your fault. Yeah. He ruined it for everyone. He did? Yeah. You can't do an hour.

Yeah. Well, we used to do a half hour. That was like the Beatles think. Half an hour. Yeah. And we got paid for it. Yeah. But I tried to work out.

Why was it so short? Well, because there was a lot of people on the bill. And I think when you went to a thing, if you were a comedian, the promoter would say, how long can you do four minutes? Can you do four minutes? Under God. So, yeah, so they would do four. So we thought, well, half an hour, that's like epic.

But that was it. You know, a big Beatles show we were on and off like that. But it didn't seem strange. It also reminds me that there were many bands in Liverpool. And then once you got out of Liverpool, there are many bands in England. So the Beatles are constantly pushing their way. Even in 62, 63, you're pushing your way through a sea of other people to get noticed. Which I think people don't think about that now.

No, there was a lot of action, you know. It was just a period, or you've got to remember it was after World War II, you know. I was born as was John and Ringo George, I think, just Mr. Well, we were born during the war. So, you know, you look back on it, you think, God, imagine our parents, someone like this, who there's a cinema, but there's bombs falling. You don't, you can't cope with that, you can't realize, you know. But yes, so we came out of that. And so it meant that you were striving now in this new world. And suddenly there were like groups and singers and there's all very exciting going on. Rub it in.

I missed it all. You didn't? No, you weren't in a group? I wasn't in a group. I was in a group once years ago called the Bad Clams. Let's move on. I love this shot. Again, your backstage and I see George is twisted. I love the beetle boot and the foreground. And I also just

love these peaks at backstage life. You're waiting. Maybe there's some anxiety or your board. There's that great, I think, album in the background for the platters. But it just, again, this is a view that no one else was getting. Yeah, I think that's the thing about these pictures. And he's not going to be bothered to kind of look at me and do a swive look, you know. He's like, it's Paul, just taking pictures, you know. So he ignores me, which was a great thing. It happened to us later when we would be with people like the Maesel brothers, who New York team, just two brothers Albert and David, and it turned out they were going

to cover our visit to New York. And so we said to them, what do you want us to do? They said just ignore us. And that was like the greatest direction we'd ever have. Because you always had to ham it up for people, you know, all the others were talking about. I've seen the footage in there. All these guys with thick New York accents,

beetle, beetle, beetle, do this, point that way, do that, point this way, and you think, leave them alone. You know, it seems... You know you think, leave him alone. It seems. You know, it's truth, we didn't mind. Because we were in America, the land of music, and we were just very flattered that these kind of hard-nosed, press photographers wanted to take our picture,

you know. And then at the end of the session, they say, hey, be a little bit more. One more. One more for the West Coast. What? So it was exciting. Yeah.

It really was. And I don't think we minded it till later. Till later, yeah. And we, I could walk the course war off, but I think so. I think you earned the right very quickly, you guys, to say, I think we've had enough. We're moving on This next photo is fascinating to me because it's it's a great photo and it's an oasis of calm You're becoming incredibly famous and you're living in an attic of your girlfriends house Jane Asher

Mm-hmm, and you live up in this attic This is at the height of Bidlemania in England, and you take this photo out the back. And I think no one could have imagined that you were living in an attic, I think, with Peter Asher, her younger sister, and younger brother, sorry. Yeah.

Yeah, it was actually a very posh house. Yeah. It just had a not-so-posh view over the back, you know. But no, this is fantastic. It looks beautiful. It was very cool, actually. But this particular thing, this was out of my room. I was very lucky because I was going out

with a girl called Jane Asher. And her mother was really nice woman. And I was missing home, and with the Beatles we'd got a little flat in Mayfa, so everyone thought it was kind of cool, but I went to see it, it was like solace, you know. So Mrs. Asher said, well, you can come and stay, you know.

So I did, I jumped at it. She was a great cook as well. But then the fans would find out You know, so I did, I jumped at it. She was a great cook as well. But then the fans would find out that, so they were that way out in the street. And I was up here, so I had to try and figure out some way of getting out. So it was crazy. We knew this guy, next door, the house next door, who lived on this same level, his major somebody. It was like an army type, lives on it. So I would ring him,

and I would say, I'm coming out. He said, okay, so we'd open his window, and I'd walk along this little, you know, kind of dangerous little parapet and go in his window and I'd walk along this little, you know, kind of dangerous little therapist and go in his window and then down in his in the lift to the basement and go out of the muse on escape. That's what this major who's clearly an older gentleman thing. Yeah McCartney's coming through. Got a lot of men. Well, this next one is not, you didn't take this, but it was taken clearly, it was taken with your camera, such a great dynamic shot of the two of you, you and John, and you can see as hard as you worked, you always made it fun for each other, I think.

That was a key ingredient. That's true. That's the thing I was saying about the hitchhiking and knowing each other before this. We established a sense of humor and a level of which we could make each other laugh. And John, of course, was very good at it. This interesting, with that big red mark, is to show me that I like these photos, and these were taken off a contact sheet, which kids these days don't know about.

So you would take your 36 photos, and they would be developed on all of them, the 36 shots on one print. So then you would go through it, mark them up, and you could get enlargements, et cetera. So I have a show in England at the National Portrait Gallery where we've shown some contact sheets.

And it's surprising how many people don't know what that is. Yeah, there's even sometimes in some of the photos that you've sprocket holes because that's how they advance the film with this little gear. I don't think a lot of kids know what those are, they really make them seem like such a part of a very specific era. Yeah.

We have this. I love you guys go to things are really heating up. You go to Paris. This is you seeing a poster of yourselves for less beetles. Lays beetles. Lays beetles. And what I love about this, and I don't think you can even see, but when you look closely, first of all, the photos that you're using in these posters were by Astrid.

Yeah. And you also have the old logo that you had for half a minute, the script, the Beatles, with the antenna coming out. Before you went to that iconic drop T, but this feels to me like you saying, hey, look, that's a poster of us. Yeah. It's exciting. Wow, look at that. In Paris.

Lord, Lord. Yeah, no, it was great. We didn't expect Paris to have roses of us. Cause the French were a little late in getting the Beatles. You know, in England, like there was a lot of screaming and girls and stuff going mad for us. When we went there, it was quite sort of, you know, come on, prove yourselves.

So we did, we had to work it. So yeah, it was exciting just to see us up in lights as it were. And a French to this day called me, Paul McCartney. McCartney. Clearing the throat, I think, more than anything else. Yeah. I'm not acting. Clearing the throat, I think, more than anything else. I love this photo of...

That's nice, yeah. Yeah, such a great shot. John, George, and this is... I think I recognize this. It's from a very famous picture that you guys took outside the... It's at the Olympia, I think, theater, bright blue bricks, and it's a very iconic shot of you guys. But I think you grabbed, this is probably in between takes with the photographer, and I think you might have grabbed this shot. And you can see, again, this is, you guys at work, and this is in between,

it's taken a photo session, and this isn't the, hey, where are the Beatles? It's, guys working. Yeah, and I mean, you know, seeing them after all these years, what good looking boys? Huh? Yeah, well I'm on. Yeah. Good looking.

You do say in the book you talk about how we were all beautiful when we were young and I begged to differ. I've got some photos I'll show you when I was 20. It's not so good. But you guys obviously looked spectacular. What I love another aspect of your perspective here is the world is looking at the Beatles at this point,

but you guys are looking back. And this is a great shot of what it was like to be you and the other guys. And actually the gentleman in the hat, very famous photographer who took a lot of great snaps of you guys. Is that he was a Dijo Hoffman. Yeah, who was slow back. Yeah, he became a good friend, you know, so, but he would get out with all the other photographers and snap us. But yeah, we saw this a lot. And so I thought, well, yeah, I'll take a picture of them. It looked so good, you know, they're all lined up.

So yeah, but this was a daily occurrence. Yeah, but this for this was a daily occurrence Yeah, you'd get used to this very quickly, but it's fascinating to when you're being photographed to turn the tables and say I can do this to you Yeah Which is really fun and you see the look on their face. They quite liked it. Mm-hmm. It's like you know This next one might be one of my favorite photos because of its honesty. And again, I think only you could get this is John. And again, biting is doing that thing again. And I see vulnerability and I see some anxiety.

It's I could be reading into it, but that's what it feels like to me. I don't know about the anxiety, but vulnerability is very true. And at this time, I wouldn't really know that really, because, you know, as a kid, his mother was decreed to not be good enough to bring him up. Julia, his mom, who we would visit, and he loved her, in order to a beautiful song about her, but she had to give him up. The father, Alph, had left the home when John was three, so that's not too wonderful. And so John grew up with these sort of minor tragedies throughout his life. He was taken in by Sam Mimi and was brought up by her. But one night, Mom, Julia was visiting them, come to see her son.

And on the way home, she got run over, got killed. By apparently, it was an off duty cop who maybe was a bit inebriated. It never came out, of course. They covered it up. But so John was having that, you know, taking off his mom, his mom dies, you know, so it made me realize why he had that vulnerability. I always admired the way he dealt with it.

Because I'm not sure, sure, I would deal that well with the stuff he went through. Also, you have a, it's him with his glasses on. These are very thick glasses because he and that was something that was kind of verboten, his shots of John with his glasses on when the photographers around, but it's you, so he can have his glasses. Yeah, that's really sweet. But he was very short-sighted as you can see with the glasses. I'm sorry, I advanced. That's okay, we can go.

If you can just spoil my story, it's okay. That was the idea. Please, Paul. Please, Paul, there's no time for your story. Nobody wants to hear you talk about John. Look what I can do. He's gone back. I did that.

Wow. Did you have more? Lots. But I'm not telling you now. Oh. That's it. All right, screw you. OK, I'll tell you won't.

Yeah. Go back. Go back. You're making a fool out of me. Well, it's easy. All right. Okay, well, so John was like really short-sighted and he used to come down from his house, which was myler 2 away from where I lived. And we would write songs and have a little session. And this occasion, it was Christmas.

And then John, after we finished, he would walk back up in the dark to his place. I knew the root he took. And it was a place called Booker Avenue. And on the corner was this little, kind of little posh bungalow. So he walks home and then he then we talked in the next day, he said, you know the house on the corner,

book our avenue. So one pasted, said, those people are crazy. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, they were out. You know what time was it we finished? Midnight said, they were out on the veranda, on the porch, playing cards at midnight. I said, don't get it. So I went up and looked it was it was the manger, it was the baby Jesus.

It wasn't going to put his glasses on. And a baby won all the money. All right, now we talk about, again, you've got an unguarded ringo, and again, we're seeing this backstage life. A little pensive, waiting, and this is you, a technique, which I think you really liked, which is you could surprise people, you could catch them if you shot into a mirror. Early paparazzi. So it's your fault, isn't it? No, you're right.

You know, it's just, I knew Ringo was just being natural, exactly naturally. And so, yeah, I knew if I could get that shot without him looking over and going, oh, yeah. So yeah, there was a lot of this backstage. And again, the light was quite nice, you know, so it was a good shot to try and take. This one is kind of spectacular to me because there's a flurry of activity and it's a great shot to me because it feels like John is almost pulled into himself. Things are heating up, it's getting crazier and crazier and he seems like he's just trying to be Zen. Yeah. I think you had to be, you know, because there was a lot of crazier that's going on.

And you had to take that moment for yourself. The good thing was he knew no one would be worried. It's not like anyone said, come on, John, I'll have you up. You know, he could just knew, he could just sit there. And as I say, I always admired that about John. You know, now I realize I was like a big fan of John's. We all were actually in the group. He was like a very cool guy, you know, very witty, very funny, but also very deep and real. So these photos show that from an early age. We have one, you are underrepresented, obviously, because you're taking the photos, but someone took this photo with your camera and I love it, it's backstage.

And I never looked that good. But I think we know that, but I also love, this almost feels Victorian, that wallpaper, that light switch. This is, you know, a different, it's show business from a different era. You guys were changing all the rules, but you're still in those dressing rooms. Yeah, that's right. I was thinking we were on the cusp because often we'd play on a bill

and there would be people from the previous era and we were like the rock group. This is the modern thing, you know. But there were plenty of like jugglers and, yeah, strange people. So yeah, we were in that world, which I liked. Yeah. I liked coming out of that and sort of emerging. I mean, now, you know, you go to a show and it's all rock and roll. You know, it is a rock and roll show. But then you got all sorts of different acts. So yeah, so it was interesting. It made it interesting for us. You wanted to chat to some of these people, you know, and see what life was like for them. What's funny, you came out of that, it really was the English music call tradition, which I think influenced the music too.

You guys came from that world which had been around since the turn of the century. Yeah, and we'd grown up with that, and then suddenly rock and roll it, and we were now going to take it further in a different direction. But yeah, we'd grown up with that. My dad used to actually operate the limelight, the spotlight, at a theatre in Liverpool called the Hippadron, and it was a limelight, which not many people know, was a piece of lime that you lit and it burned fuss for us and then you, that went through a lens and became the limelight beam. I had no, I've never heard that before.

I know. It's a sort of educational show this. I love that you assumed that I didn't know anything. No, so he was in that world. You know, he was in that world and so it went right back to all the old musical acts, you know. And so he knew a lot of the songs and he would go home to his sisters in the interval, the two houses, he'd go home and he'd in the interval, the two houses,

he'd go home and he'd sing the songs to them. They'd remember them. So that's if all come out of the family sing songs. And also, he would take home programs for the event that people had left. And he would take them home. And the girls would iron them, make them new again, and he'd take him back and flock him. A sense of enterprise.

No, yeah. But it was that world. Like you're saying, it was a whole different world. That's what I, when you arrived backstage and I saw you go into your dressing room and I think, you know, some things just don't change. Here you are, another dressing room. We're putting on a show. It's exhilarating. It's still to be part of that tradition. Yeah, I feel very lucky with that.

You know, because so many of you mates at school went on and did uninspiring things. Yep. Yeah, all right. So, you know, you felt very lucky to... It must be tough when you show up at a high school reunion. I think I did pretty well. I've got a nice hardware store. I think I did as well as it. Oh, Jesus! It's my carton. Yeah. Yeah.

We have a picture here, I adore. Yeah, this is John wearing many hats. George. I mean, sorry, George. I get them all confused. You're the drummer, right? But I love it. That sense of comedy, too, of don't play the don't play the joke, you know

There is nothing funny happening here, which is the funniest way to be I'm gonna wear these two hats and I'm gonna give you the most Sirius look in the world. I know George is very good at that. Yeah Yeah, you know he had a good dead man sense of humor And these hats were just lying around and handsense of humor. And these hats were just lying around, they're probably the dances. Hats looks like the kind of thing the dances would get a cane, one of those hats,

and a scanty costume, and dual sorts of dancing. Yeah. So they picked up the hats. To that point, if that's the show business you're in, there's some dancers here. We're gonna take these hats and goof around. Yeah. This looks like, and this is, I believe you're at a recording studio in it.

I believe it's in Paris. And this looks like a Chet Baker album cover. It's absolutely it's a stunning photograph. You guys are ushering in a whole new era of music, but you're still working alongside these other guys. Yeah. It's funny, I never knew who these guys were. I just, I think it was rehearsal hall. And I never knew, I just looked so cool, I just took the picture. But I never knew till very recently who they were, or what was going on. And it turns out Elvis Costello texted me just the other day and he said he's got amazing text from a friend of his It was called Ray and Ray said I've got the book and on page 161

There's this photo of my dad playing guitar. What? Ah, he said my heart skipped a beat So now we know who that was, that was raised up. Now things really pick up, this is the famous flight, Pan Am 101. You are going to New York City. And you don't know what you're going to find when you get to New York City. You know you have a you're on the charts and number one hit. You're going to do the Sullivan show. We all know what happens, but you guys on the way over you don't know. America's the big prize. The country's in mourning after JFK's assassination, which is two months earlier. What are you

going to encounter? Is it gonna work? Yeah, exactly, you know, so we were very excited just to be on a plane to New York. That's like enough. But what happened was the pilots always radio ahead to idle wild as it was then, before his name Kennedy. And so the word got back to us. There's a big crowd at the

up. Wow, getting exciting. So yeah, we kind of half knew what to expect, but then it was a really big crowd. And so, we were just pulled over. It was America. We're all the music that we loved came from. So we were just happy to be there. And then with a big crowd of admirers screaming girls, it was great. And then what was nice after that, immediately we did a press conference at the airport. And it was like, hey, you know, really, you know, a lot again

But we knew the whatever they laid on us if there was any sort of insult We knew we could come back with well, we're number one in your country. Yeah Boom. Yeah, gotcha That's called a mic drop. Yeah Yeah. Gotcha. That's called a mic drop. This is what you encounter when you get there and I love this photo you took.

We've all seen, of course, the other side of it, but this is what you guys saw outside the plaza, which is absolutely amazing. And again, probably you would see this in Europe but to realize that this isn't happening in New York City is gotta just be an incredible. seen this in Europe, but to realize that this isn't happening in New York City. Yeah. It's got to just be an incredible. It was great.

Well, the whole thing, too, the fans, the police, the policemen, and you know, when you see some other photos, they've got the old-fashioned police uniform with the big buttons. And they were mounted police, too. So it was very exciting for us to see the car buttons. And they were mounted police too. So it was very exciting for us to see the car, look, it was like looking being in a movie. And because every time I drive down Fifth Avenue, I tell everyone that story. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha tourists. Think about it. I think George had been to New York once, but the rest of you are tourists, and this is your first view of New York City. Not many people encounter this when they show up in New York for the first time.

What's not what it's always like? Well, of course I do, but I'm me. This I love Columbus Circle. I was there this morning and I knew I'd be talking to you and I've read the book 50 times because I adore it. I love how different it is now and I can see that you're starting to take pictures of signage. You're taking a lot of sort of these almost still lifes in it. It's a different idea now that you're playing with, which is this is America. Yeah, I mean, you know, you're just taking photos, so you're not necessarily taking portraits. You're just taking anything appeals to you. So to me, that's America.

And actually, on that little needle that's on the thing, it's a weather thing. And it's always telling the temperature. And you can see there's one little bit this worn away. So that must be like the most popular temperature. Was the number one temperature in the country? Yeah. I just like to picture you. So I took it.

You guys, this is a great shot of the amazing Ronnie Spector of the Ronettes. You've got to have reminded me of something I don't think can be stressed enough is what you guys did when you landed is you completely gave it up for girl groups and you were a group that played a lot of songs by girl groups and promoted them and they were songs that you loved. Ringo would sing, boy,, didn't even change the gender. It was just, we're gonna sing, please, Mr. Postman,

baby, it's you. And that was, I think at the time, unusual. When everyone was asking you guys, what do you love? And you said, we love these girl groups. Yeah, mostly black American music, really, except for, you know, if you like Elvis and Karl Perkins and things. So yeah, we love these girl groups. American music really except for, you know, if you feel like Elvis and Karl Perkins and things. So yeah, we love these co-groups. And as you say, Ringo is saying, boy, we never

thought, you know, that's strange. It just was a great song. So we just liked how it sounded. I don't think we really worried about what the lyrics said. And it was great for us to meet Ronnie, you know? Wow. All your heroes are turning up and they want to meet you guys. Yeah. It's true. This one is also from inside as a double exposure of John.

I was struck with, you guys were slabs. LAUGHTER Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, but we got time off, we were in a hotel, we were allowed to slub. It wasn't usually if it wasn't slubbed. This is... Yeah, go ahead. No, you... This is a shot, we've seen so many shots from different angles of the Sullivan set. But this is what struck me.

Look at how small the riser is for Ringo's drum kit. I know. I can't believe it. And as a guy who I started out as a bad drummer before I moved on to bad guitar and then bad comedy, what I, what struck me about this is guitars, I mean drums move when you hit them. It's a miracle. He didn't fall off. I know. That's, he's Ringo. Ringo didn't fall off. He didn't fall off. No, but I agree. I mean, how did he get up there? Yeah. It's like, did he jump? He was always he lifted.

I don't know. It's all this raised so many questions for me. But it does make me in retrospect terrified for him on that solo appearance, that the drums didn't just fall off in the middle of the first song. He used to have a hard job with all that stuff. We played in Washington. And for the first time ever, they said,

you're going to play in the round. We didn't even know what they were talking about. But there was like a little round stage in the middle of the room. You know, I now know it's to get more people in. Yes, that's why they were doing it. But they said, well, you'll have to, you'll have to play to these people, then you'll have to turn around and play to those people, then those people, so we just about managed it. We'd sort of move our amps and so Ringo had to move his whole drum kit. His eyes didn't move. There's footage of this and it's ridiculous because you're the biggest act in the history of the world and in between songs Ring goes jumping down

And it's like he's moving somebody into their dorm room, you know It's ridiculous. I know and there's no one running out and doing it for him and he's pushing and shoving and you guys are like come on ring go. Let's go Well, he did it. Yeah, he did it. He did what you had to do. He did it. This photo you took out the window, it is miraculous, I think. It's such an angelic shot of this.

I love this picture. Her looking in at you and you looking out. Yeah. And she's ethereal. She's really... She really is, yeah. She's so serene. And normally we'd see people like this

and they'd be sort of shouting or screaming or, how am I even? But she's just got this very cool look. Yeah. It's like, you wanna paint a portrait? You've got the headscarf. I wish I knew a story. You know, maybe one of these days someone would say that was my auntie. But it'll be Elvis Costello, it gets in touch with you. I know her too. Maybe he's raised up here that guy. He texts me all the time too, Paul.

I don't believe a word of it. After Sullivan, as he said, you guys go down to Washington, D.C. And I love this photo because so much of your art, so much of your music, is about working people, you know, and barbers, I want to rig the firemen, nurses, poppion a tray. You have this way, and I love this photo because you're looking out the window, you're at the eye of this hurricane, and you see this man, and you take this photo, and you seem drawn to people that are out there doing their job and he's anonymous.

Yeah, because that's my world, you know, growing up in Liverpool. These are the people you knew, and you're home-gop with. Also, I mean, I could have just been in Liverpool. I could have just been to the right, clearing up after him. You know, these, that my own call. So I, it isn't, but it's Ray's uncle. No. No. No. No, but you know, I just, I'm drawn to people's working people's faces. They just look good. And also the other thing I'm drawn to them for, people tend to think working class people are a bit stupid. Yeah, he's got, what did look at the job he's got? He's being stupid.

But some of them, if you know them and you kind of, you visit their houses or like my uncles and aunties, they can be really clever people. And I love that. I mean, I had an uncle who was really, oh, I thought, you know, I just got a little pulled, you know, it's all like that, you know. So you would have thought, well, he's a bit sick. I wouldn't. People might would bring homework home from school.

And he was the one in the family who would know the Shakespeare and the epiphanies. He'd just been taught it and he'd remember it all. So these hidden deaths are what I love about working people, never underestimate them. Well, we move on. This is where now getting to Miami. You land in Miami. And John once had a quote, he said that the early Beatles touring days were like a flini film, Cetera Khan, just madness.

And here you really see it, because get this book, and you look up close, there are beauty queens. There are, I mean, all kinds of just insanity. There are all these people there, and you're thinking, why are these people here? And, you you know, what about what about the guy or girl in my hat though? We do sort of leopard skin thing. Oh check this out I saw the same thing and I wanted to punch in on this much look who's greeting you Holding I don't know if you can see this holding a chimpanzee

I don't know if you can see this, holding a chimpanzee. LAUGHTER You know, why? Well, we... LAUGHTER You know, I think we appeal to everyone. LAUGHTER Even monkeys. I just love this moment.

I know, it's not what. And I mean, on the day, I just took the picture, but I couldn't ever see that detail. Right. Until the book and God bless. I saw that, and I thought, this photograph captures, yes. This is Biedelmania. And then we had to call the monkey to clear the photo, which did not go well.

This is a fascinating photo because you are zeroed in on the fact that this is not something you saw in England. You didn't see it in Liverpool, you didn't see it in London, this was new to you. Yeah, I know, this is when we arrived in Miami and we had a police escort and this guy on the motorcycle just pulled up right beside us and I had my camera so I just snapped this picture of him because I was so amazed at seeing like a gun and ammo because in England we were very lucky.

The cops don't have guns. So this was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Well we are very lucky in that respect, you know, it's, yeah, our laws never included the Second Amendment. But yeah, so I was fascinated by this guy, and the gun and everything. And I didn't want his head. I just wanted that bit, just to remind myself

of what America was like. This is, I'll just love this girl here. In the center, and to me that says it all. I've never made anyone that happy in my life. Unbelievable. Yeah. And I mean, when I, again, like I say, took the picture quickly in the car and drove into the hotel kind of thing.

I mean, then I discovered when I looked at the picture. Yeah. I can almost hear a screaming. Yeah. And I should hear a screaming. Yeah. And it should be medicated. Yeah. The parents would be like, no, no, no, Ridland for you.

It's unbelievable. Unbelievable moment. And just the looks on all the people's faces. You've got the kid who's come from school. He's got his books. You know, a girl along there doesn't quite know what to think of it. And then the cop who's ready to blow his whistle? Yeah.

He's ready. He's still hasn't blown a whistle all these years later. No. Well now it's the Wizard of Oz. You switched to color. And you guys suddenly hit Miami which must have felt like a dream because now you are at the top of show business. You're the reviews are in 78 80 million people watch

The you guys on Sullivan the world's going crazy and then you hit this incredible water in Miami Yeah, and you're having fun. You're relaxing. Yeah, we were very lucky, and I think Brian was, Brian Epstein was instrumental in that. He always put in a little bit of leisure, even though we worked crazy days, I don't know, like 300 days a year probably, but he would always put in like a visit to the beach. Yeah.

And we were really thankful. So they'd hired a boat and we just went out for the day. And it was so good because after that, you wouldn't mind doing a show. Right. You know, you felt so good. You're here to do another Sullivan appearance, but down in Miami, which, suddenly, everything's different. And I think you can

see that in this photo. Oh yeah, which is. Oh baby. I mean, that's an album cover. That is that is such a spectacular photo of George. And are we thinking that's, would that be a rummend coke, a Scotch and Coke? What were you guys having at the time? I think it was a scotchend coke. Yeah. That's what we were. But no, that is George living the life. LAUGHTER I mean, you know, and he took to it very well.

Yes. Sorry. So he's got the tan. He's in Miami. He's got the tan. He's got a girl, beautiful girl, in a sensational bikini. I mean, I think, you know, a designer, I'll have to tell Stella about that one.

He's got the ciggy, he's got the drink, he's got the shades. Oh my God, yeah. It looks like he's got some suntan lotion on. It's all good. It's all good. Oh, good. Yeah, that photo makes me very happy. And these next ones are just you guys rehearsing. Well, actually. Yeah, that photo makes me very happy.

And these next ones are just you guys rehearsing. Well, actually, you're getting ready to rehearse. This is, of course, Ringo. And there's a lot of Beatles paraphernalia. He's wearing like a Beatles souvenir hat that someone handed to you and he said, all right, I'll put it on. It's a good hat. Yeah, it's a good hat.

It's free. I mean, let you know who we are. Do you still have any of that stuff, that free beetle stuff they gave you? No, well, it probably turned up one of these days. It's in there, it's in that still stuff for you. No, the nice thing about this stuff in this series, if I was, the hotel provided you with, you know, normally you'll get a robe. Yep. Oh, dressing gowns, you know, hotel.

But they had these little territile jackets. Very cool. I think you see them next, because you guys are rehearsing. We didn't take them off. No. And we love them. In all the rehearsal shots, you can see that you guys are wearing...

I'm surprised you didn't wear them for the next three albums. And just to shout out to that smile, that's Mal. That's Mal live in, it was Mal. Yeah, and he's got a sunburn. Mal, yeah, Mal was a lovely man who is our roadie and a big bear of a man. And he was a sweetheart, you know, he just, he loved us and we loved him.

You know what's incredible too is, you look at what a band travels with today. There hasn't been a band nearly as big as you guys since, and yet your entourage is very small. It's unmind boggling by today's standards. To. Yeah. That do people mull and kneel.

Yeah. Taking care of instruments, hotel rooms in and out, taking care of everything, baggage. Yeah. And one of them was here with you, that is of, George Martin. And I believe his fiance. She was a fiance at the time,

and they later got married. Judy Lockhart Smith. No, that's a nice name. Very posh. She's still alive. She's a lovely, lovely lady. Well, she is lady Martin now, as George was knighted. But they were great. They were a lovely couple. Well, she is Lady Martin now, as George was knighted.

But they were great, they were a lovely couple. And of course George was a brilliant man and a great producer. He also had a fantastic sense of humour, so he and Judy got on very well. And they were a great couple. Also I just have never seen a photo. I don't think I've seen him in a bathing suit. It's just such a... No.

I'm always seeing him iconic, even late in the Beatles days when everyone else is wearing whatever. He's always suit and tie proper. You know, EMI, this is the way we do things. And so this picture was, I thought, very arresting for that reason. Yeah, there's a later picture where he's got Judy, he's gonna throw her in the pool. But I was lovely, you know, just having these moments of leisure. And then these friends of ours who were on the trip could join us with the Disphoto is so funny. You're there. I think on the beach

And you see an ad go by yeah, and you take a picture of it. There is only one Mr. Pants and it's true Have you ever seen another Mr. Pan. I have not. Me neither. There's only one. But I love the idea that Mr. Pants decided I'll buy an ad. We'll have the plane fly by where the Beatles are. Maybe one of them will take a photograph and show it 60 years from now.

And I'll get some free advertising. Yeah. Oh man. So what do you think it was, like a trouser firm? Mr. Pants has got to be trousers. Yes. It's got to be trousers. Yeah.

Back in the day, trouser firms, as we called them, were all the rage. Firm trousers. Yeah. It's a trouser firm. You made it sound like a law firm, I love it. Welcome to the trouser firm. This is one of my favorites, because it's George's happiest anyone could possibly be.

In the towering jacket. In the towering jacket. Oh, you know, I can say you've got to imagine my joy at first of all rediscovering these and then seeing this. Yes. It just, you know, it just takes you back. I can say you've got to imagine my joy at first of all rediscovering these and then seeing this. Yes. It just takes you back. It's like your family snapshots, but these are shots my family's natural, but they're of the Beatles. And just so lovely to capture a moment of George like that. You know, you don't kind of see him like that.

And we were on a boat in Miami, and we were loving it. And then I'm going to end on the photo that's on the cover. Oh, I'm sorry, there's one more to go. I wanted to get in one before we wrapped it up. It's me being horrified, but the fact I've caught a fish. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't intend to catch one.

You got one. And I think you put it back. I did put it back, yeah. In a hurry. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Already, the Intervegetarian, it was saying. It was already cooking. This will not work for me.

You may go, fishy. You may go. Yep. And then I wanted to end on this one. This will not work for me. You may go fishy. You may go. Yep. And then I wanted to end on this one. This is the cover shot. Just for fun, I walked over there today. It was amazing how much it's changed. But also, what's still the same?

I looked at this photograph and I thought, there you go. I think shooting out the back of the window. I think you're on your way to the plaza, maybe from the Ed Sullivan. But just the fact that you had the presence of mine to. I think you're on your way to the plaza, maybe from the Ed Sullivan, but just the fact that you had the presence of mine to take some photos while all this was happening is miraculous to me. It's a great shot.

Well, thank you. You know, the thing is, we were so fascinated being in America, seeing American life, American cars, American buildings, New York. So yeah, you know, American buildings, New York. So yeah, you know, if people are running up the street, that's to us. That was fascinating.

You know, wow, we've made it. Yeah. Well, is it? I want to make sure that I wrap this up. I have to tell you that I have been lucky enough to be in my business now for, you know, 30-some-odd years, and I get to talk to everybody. I can't think of a single person who's brought more joy to more people than you. And it is, I mean that. And I don't just mean with the Beatles.

I mean, and my son would agree, wings, the solo work, the work that you've been doing, McCartney III. You just don't stop making really lovely, beautiful music. And so when I arrived here today, someone in your group said, well, thanks for doing this, Conan. And I said, what are you talking about? This is an absolute joy and a thrill,

and can't think of anything cooler than to get to spend an hour with you and look at these photos. So I think on behalf of everybody here, I want to say thank you, Paul McCartney. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonom of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley, executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick Liao, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vino. Take it away, Jimmy.

Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our Associate Talent Producer is Jennifer Samples, engineering by Eduardo Perez, additional production support by Mars Melnick, talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Khan. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the team Coco Hotline at 3-2-3-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts,

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