Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Skull Soup

Episode Date: January 6, 2022

Conan chats with Phil in Fall River, MA about working in the Lizzie Borden house and how Conan would solve the murder once and for all. Wanna get a chance to talk to Conan? Submit here: TeamCoco.com/CallConan

Okay, let's get started. Hey there, Phil meets Sona and Conan. I gave Sona top billing. Yeah! I don't know why you did that. That's so weird. Well anyway. Oh boy, so that means this whole episode's going to be a fight.

No. No, it won't. But the important thing, Phil, is that this is your chance to talk to Conan. I'm going to talk to him. I'm going to talk to him. I'm going to talk to him. I'm going to talk to him. I'm going to talk to him.

I'm going to talk to him. But the important thing, Phil, is that this is your chance to talk to Conan. Pause. And Sona. Sorry. That's the proper annunciation. Phil, how are you? Nice to talk to you.

It's nice to talk to you too. I feel like I'm hallucinating. Well, you may be. And that would be a very sad, underwhelming hallucination. Wow, man. I took some really good Molly. What did you see? Conan O'Brien with an audio headset on.

Wow. It wouldn't even be the first time. No. No. Now, Phil, where are you? I am in Fall River, Massachusetts. Oh, my God. Fall River.

I know Fall River. I'm from Brookline. So not too far a drive away. Right. And everybody knows Fall River because I'm a murder buff. Fall River is where Lizzie Borden supposedly killed her father and stepmother. Is that right?

That's correct. And I actually work at the Lizzie Borden house. As luck would have it. No, you don't. Do you? Do you really? Yeah, I do. What do you do there?

I give tours. Oh, you give tours? For a second. I thought it'd be really funny if you said I'm a murder. Or you're a Lizzie Borden reenactor. Yeah, you put on a dress and your job is to kill at least two people a day. Right. Wow.

I got to say, this is really exciting because I'm a murder buff and I grew up hearing about the Lizzie Borden murders and sort of thinking about them. And I guess there was some controversy. You know, Lizzie Borden never admitted to it. Are you convinced that she did it? My answer changes every single day. So I always feel like it's a cop out and people ask me that question. I think most of the time I say, yeah, Lizzie Borden did it, but the more time I spend in

that house, well, maybe the crazier I start to feel, but I second guess everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting because there was a kids used to taunt Lizzie Borden by saying, there was this song that they sang. This is like in the 1890s, you know, Lizzie Borden took an ex, gave her father 40 whacks when she saw what she had done.

She gave her mother 41. And I was thinking, whenever I think about that song now, I think, oh, she's just obsessive compulsive. That's a description of someone with OCD. Like, well, just give my dad 40 whacks. It should be 41 next time. Like if she had a sibling, they would have gotten 42. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. And she would have been real precise about it. I feel like in Massachusetts though, I feel like we just come out of the womb knowing that rhyme. Like, it's just in case, right? Yeah. No, I knew that song as a kid and, you know, our grandmother lived with us in our house when we were growing up for a period of time.

And what year was the murder? Was it in the 1880s or the 90s? 1892. Yeah. So I think my grandmother would have been two years old. So when that murder happened, I think she was born in 1890. And she often tried to murder us with, she had a little axe. So I think it was just something people did back then.

Try to murder? Yeah. Yeah, she just was like, hey, man, this is what we did back in the 1890s for fun. Yeah, there was no TV. Yeah. They didn't have TV. They didn't have the internet. And so everyone was given a little axe and they were just constantly chopping at each

other. That's it. Just adorable time. Battle Royale. So I'm pretty sure she did it, I have to tell you. Looking at the facts. And as I know them, and she was, she was a weird lady. She was a legitimately weird lady, Lizzie Board.

Yeah. You know, it's, it's interesting. She's one of the most fascinating figures in American history. And yet there's still so very little we know for sure about her. And as you can imagine, even in the second half of her life after she's acquitted of the murders, she's not going to be extra talkative with folks. So I think she played her cards very close to the vest for the rest of her life and went to her grave with a lot of secrets.

I mean, I know all these crazy things about that murder. But one thing I know, to correct me if I'm wrong, there was a period of time where they turned that house into like in the 1980s, you could stay there, right? 80s and 90s. You could stay there overnight. It was a bed and breakfast. Yes. You can still stay there.

Yes. It's still the bed and breakfast. You're kidding. Yeah. Come on now, Conan. Wait a minute. Guys, is that true? We could stay there?

No. We should go on a field trip. Is it haunted? Yeah. One time I spent in that house, the more creeped out I get. But you'll talk to other people who spend the night and had the best sleep of their lives. You know, I think it depends what kind of mentality you're bringing into it. Yeah.

Would you be scared? Yes. I would not. I would not. I wouldn't either. I wouldn't either. What? You know, I feel, yeah, I just, you know, what's going to happen?

People were brutally murdered in there. Yeah, so what? I don't get scared of ghosts or supernatural. I'm worried about actual living humans that will kill you. So as long as that's not going on there, I'm fine. If we all go together, the overwhelming chance, Matt, is that I will kill you. So I am afraid of that, that you didn't have me finished. That's a legitimate fear.

I'm proposing that the three of us do a podcast from the Lizzie Bordenhaus. Wouldn't that be fun? Yeah. And we set up a fourth mic just in case. Just in case. She drops by and she shows up and she's like, hey Lizzie, long time listener, big fan. You know, I love, I love the way you read ads. And then we're like, Lizzie, thanks for dropping in.

Did you do it? Oh, come on. Yes, I did it. Statute of limitations, baby. Yeah. I hated my father and man, my stepmother was a pain in the ass. Any hoots got to run. But first a word for Fracture.

No. Fracture Prince, yeah. Then she does a commercial, a podcast commercial. It's a trip though. And I think you would really love it because not only is it a bed and breakfast, but it's restored to look the way it did in 1892. So it's a whole trip. Yeah.

Covered in blood. You don't go that far, but you know, okay. If you want. I have an interesting ghoulish fact about that murder that's just coming to mind, which is for the evidence in the trial, they presented the skull of the father. Am I correct? I think the skull of the father and the mother, which meant that they detached the head of the father and the mother and like boiled it.

And then we're like, your honor, exhibit number seven, the head of the murder victim. And they unveiled it at the trial. Didn't they do that? They did. I mean, it's the most bizarre moment in a story full of bizarre moments for me. The medical examiner, think about what a tough job this is a full week after the murders. You are ordered to go down to the cemetery, remove the bodies from a holding tomb, remove the heads from the bodies, bring them home, boil the flesh off of them.

And then keep them under wraps until the trial. By the way, big surprise to a lot of people in the courtroom when the skulls are presented, including Lizzie Borden, who, you know, apparently swooned at the site of her father's skull, which is understandable. Well, back then nobody fainted. They just swooned. Right. It's like you put your hand on your head.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, that was a freak show. Can you imagine the guy boiling his skull? Cause that's what he's told to do. And then he leaves the room for a second, he comes back and someone's like, you know, I don't know what that soup is.

It doesn't taste a little, taste a little off. Nope. I think it needs basil. You know, and you're like, can't you imagine that? That's the first place my head goes to. Why? What? Why?

Why is a skull soup the first place your head goes? Because the guy's like, you know, hey, you know, yeah, a little skull soup. Hey, I got a little skull soup on the boy. I was going to say, come, come and take the tour because I would love to do the tour, but also have your shtick like interspersed, you know, all the details. Sir, excuse me. You don't have that. Excuse me, Phil, this is not shtick.

This is a real concern that someone that when the coroner, the medical examiner left the kitchen for five minutes to go churn the butter, someone came in with a ladle and tested his skull soup. That's a real legitimate concern. Yeah, Phil, this is not shtick. They're bits. These are bits. Yeah, they're bits with a Z, not shtick.

You know what? I think I'm just spending too much time at the house. I become desensitized to horrific details about double murder after a while. Yeah. No, I haven't. I remember all that. I've viewed the crime scene photos on Lizzie Borden. I'm quite familiar with the case.

Yeah. Quite certain that she did it. And I'm just curious, do you give other tours or is it just the Lizzie Borden Museum? So I love doing the house tours, right? We go from top to bottom through every room. But another thing we get to do is go out into the city of Fall River and tell other tragic stories about the city's history. What?

Like what? Mainly a fire related. We've just lost a lot of stuff to fire over the centuries. What? You're such a fun date. I'm just picturing Phil on a first date. I thought we were going to see a movie. Yeah, we could have seen a movie.

I don't know. I hear the latest Bond is a little bit of a downer. I thought we'd just drive around and I'd show you a factory where 55 Italians died in a fire. You have no idea how close to reality that is for my daily life. That's what I do. I can be kind of a downer, but it's always in this sort of, you know, chipper voice. So it's sort of this weird. So what kind of, I mean, there were just factory fires, I'm betting, right?

Yep. There were a number of factory fires that there's something called the Great Fire of 1843. So when you hear that name, you know, it had to have been bad. And that one started when two boys stumbled upon a small cannon in a field and decided to fire it off. Oh my God. I'm sorry. That's just hilarious. It really is.

Hey Billy, look. What? Hey, it's a cannon. I got an idea. Let's point it at that factory over there where they make kerosene. Yeah, that's a good idea. Now what do we do? I don't know.

I guess we fire it at the kerosene factory. What could happen? Well, it is 1843. Probably nothing bad. Kablam. Yeah. Oh my God. They fired a can.

That's a bad sitcom. They fired a cannon at a factory and then a Great Fire start. They ignited a pile of wood shavings that were nearby. Jesus Christ. There's no good day to fire a cannon. Oh my God. But it was, they had everything stacked against them. It was really hot, like 90 degrees.

The ground was raised high. And then there's a big wind moving in from the southwest. So, perfect. Let's do it. Right? And that's all it took. And then we don't know what happened to the boys after that. They were young boys, but there's mysteriously no mention of them anywhere after this incident

in the papers. I think they ran away and became presidents that succeeded each other. It became Millard Fillmore and then whoever came after Millard Fillmore. How many people died in that fire? Believe it or not, there's no deaths reported directly from the fire. Oh. Oh, look at that. Don't boom, no deaths.

Why? Well, if you can't call something the Great Fire, if nobody died, you just can't. That's like just a decent fire. Yeah. Well, there are deaths associated with it. You know, just like after the fact, overexertion at the scene or somebody. Boo. There's this.

Boo. How about Fright? Somebody who apparently thought, no, you want fire. No, I'm just saying overexertion. You can't say it was the Great Fire of 1843. How many people died? 11. Oh, that's pretty bad.

Yes. They all died of overexertion. Right. What? What did they try to put? They try to put the fire up by doing stomach crunches in 90 degree weather. I'm sorry, Phil. Quick question.

Yes, sir. Is it true that Fall River is losing ghosts due to gentrification? Do ghosts ever have to move out because too many yuppies are making little, you know, ale breweries and the rents are driven up and you see pissed off ghosts? I died in a fire in 1843 and now I've got to move. I tell you what, it is a real concern. It might not be our number one concern here in the city, but it is. Yeah.

There was another fire, not to compete, but there is a mill fire. Okay, you better give me some deaths in this one. 1874. Okay. And 23 people died at that one. Not bad. Not bad. Not bad.

They died of cholera. Yeah, of cholera 15 years later. Yeah. All of your tours, nobody dies from that event. No, they all died peacefully in their sleep. Of old age. Of old age. 600 people died.

Well, yes, within the next 80 years, 600 people total in Massachusetts died. Right. Phil, I want my money back. Phil, how can I help you? I want to help you because I admire you. You're clearly a murder freak like I am and you're from Massachusetts. So I feel like you and I are brothers and in fact, I prefer you to my actual brothers. Thank you.

What can I do? Any question I can answer, I will do. Well, I was going into this thinking about this one and I think you've already answered it, which is would you stay the night? Yes. And would. So I'll ask you another one then, which is since this is such a major question mark in history, the Lizzie Borden story, and I'm still trying to figure it out.

Do you think you could solve it? And if so, what methodology would you use to crack the case? Here's what I would do. And I don't even need any time for this. I would, first of all, I would need to live as Lizzie Borden did for several weeks in the house at the same time of year. I would wear the same heavy hoop skirt Lizzie Borden was wearing. And I in 1892, I would live at the same time, which I believe was summer because it was

very hot out. Correct? Yes, it was. Okay. Yes. I'm impressed too. And then what I would do is I would ask, I would ask Matt to wear a beard and the same clothes that Mr. Borden wore, and I would want Sona to dress and act like the stepmother.

And then we would all live in the house and we would do the same chores. And then I would ask Matt to lie down for a nap on that leather couch where Mr. Borden was found. And I would have Sona upstairs, believe in the either the guest bedroom or the master bedroom, making the beds. Sure. And then I would see if I could kill them both with an axe in the time allotted. And then I think I'd be able to prove, then I'd have their skulls boiled.

Oh. And I'd serve the soup to all the tourists that day that come by. Oh man. And yeah. And Sona, you don't want to be skull soup? No. None of this sounds appealing to me at all. What if people tasted it and said too much garlic in this one?

Come on. I knew that was coming. High fives. Even with stuff. High fives all around. Stop saying high fives. There's no high fives. That stuff's in your bones.

You eat so much garlic. These are two new parents you're talking about here too. That's cold blooded right there. Brand new parents. Oh, come on. My experience is that kids pretty much raise themselves. Oh. Yeah.

Look at Lizzie Borden. Yeah. Look at that. She turned out fine. She did. She's a perfect example. All right. Well, listen.

We're coming to your town. I'll figure it out. I don't know when, but we'll come to Fall River, the three of us. And I swear to God, we should podcast from the house where these terrible crimes were committed. And I will do the podcast dressed as Lizzie Borden. And then I will recreate those heinous crimes. I think that's fantastic.

And I need to be there to see it. So I'm looking forward to it. All right. Well, Phil, very nice talking to you. Seriously. Have a great day and give my best to all the murder buffs that you encounter in the next 24 hours. I will.

And I'll introduce you to more ghosts when you come, I promise. And... No, they're gone. They had to move out. They just can't afford it. Yeah. Well... They're all on Staten Island now.

Oh, all right. That place wasn't haunted enough, right? So I just want to say thank you for having me on. Thank you, Matt and Sona and Conan for making life wonderful for, you know, my whole life pretty much. So I thank you. Well, I think that was... I think that was the murder that was adding to your life, but we'll do our best.

It might have been. I know you've got to go, but I've met you once back in 2008. I know you don't remember it because it was probably 30 seconds long, but it happened in your audience that late night. And... Oh! Yeah. You came out before the show and...

Yeah. I used to come out before the show and sometimes I'd sing and sometimes I'd just talk to people and so... Yes. And sometimes I would swing at them viciously with my ham-like fists. You didn't do that to me, but you did hug me, and then you accused me of caressing your lower back. I know.

You didn't hug me. That... Hey! You're that, Phil. I remember. Hey, I'm glad we got that lawsuit straightened out. But you gave me these drumsticks, too, so I still love them. Oh, good.

Good. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. I like all your Conan merch, too, in the background. Yeah, you got a lot of good Conan merch. I know. Yes.

That's the room. Right there. Wow. That's very nice. Wow. That looks like a altar you've built. Yeah. Oh, don't ruin it.

Yeah. A bit. That's true. I like it. I like it. Maybe an effigy to burn. Yeah. You fire a cannon at that shit.

Set it up on fire. Yeah. Good. Hey, Phil. So nice to meet you again. Yes. And we'll see you when we come to Fall River. I can't wait.

I'm looking forward to seeing all three of you, so come on down. Thanks, Phil. Take care, Phil. All right. Bye. Go, Socks. Conan O'Brien needs a fan with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gorely, produced by me, Matt Gorely, executive produced by Adam Socks, Joanna Soloteroff, and Jeff Ross

at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Earwolf, music by Jimmy Vivino, supervising producer Aaron Blair, associate talent producer Jennifer Samples, associate producers Sean Doherty and Lisa Berm, engineered by Will Beckton. Please rate, review, and subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.