Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Steven Yeun

Episode Date: July 18, 2022

Actor Steven Yeun feels ecstatic about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Steven sits down with Conan to talk about landing the role of Glenn in The Walking Dead, emigrating from South Korea at an early age, and the beauty of submitting to life as a parent. Plus, Conan reviews Sona’s new book The World’s Worst Assistant.  Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is Steven Young, and I feel ecstatic about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Okay, I don't buy it. There was such a long pause. It's because I had to process the word ecstatic to mean it. Hey there, and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I am joined, as always, by my compatriots, my boon companions. I never understood what that meant, boon companion. I don't know what that means.

I've never heard that before. It was something, it was saying that you'd hear in the olden days, he's my boon companion. I used that on this show early on, and you gave me hell for it. That's right. Yeah. I was doing it in a mocking way. I've never forget a gorelly disc, but I'm joined, of course, by Matt Gorelly and Sonoma Sessian.

Yes, yes you are. I'm not sure if you don't quite add to the equation you made to tract, but still, it's something. And that's important. Oh, she's the secret sauce. No, I think you are. Well, I'm not. We've covered this.

No, you're not. You're so funny, Matt. You're so on top of your toes. Yeah, you're so good. You're so great. It's all survival. It's all survival. I mean, I agree that you and I are the important part.

That's what we're getting at. Let's be clear. I say what is clear is we may never know what makes Conan O'Brien needs a friend. Such a successful podcast. We just may never know. I'm glad you finally realized that. I had, on the subject of our podcast, kind of a fun experience, which is a couple days ago, I went and visited my in-laws up on Bainbridge Island in Seattle.

So I went to Seattle, and then you get on a ferry and you go over to Bainbridge Island, and there was a gathering there, and I attended with my wife and kids. We had a lovely time. And then you drive back the other direction, and you get back on the ferry to go back to Seattle. So we were waiting in line, and I get out to kind of just stretch my legs because we're waiting on the ferry and sitting in our car, our cramped rental car. Oh, nice dig.

It was a little, you know what it was? It's a perfect, I'm not going to name the car. It was a perfectly fine car, but as you know, I have freakishly long legs, and not the most generous interior on this car. It's very hard to rent a Bugatti, and so now this was an American car that was a little cramped up front, and so I get out and I'm stretching my legs, and these people in the car next to me recognize me, and they're very excited, which is nice. And their windows are down, and they go, this is so weird.

And I said, what? And they said, we listened to the podcast on this commute back and forth to Bainbridge Island all the time, and here you are. And you know, it's path-leaning into their car, invading their space, because I'm a needy person, and I really wanted to get my head all in their car and be like, how are you? Are you nixing them? I'm nixing them.

Again, the old nixing. That's nixing motor-voting a woman. I couldn't. I couldn't. I am not a crook. I could have gone my whole life without that. Anywho. I haven't lived till I've heard that.

So why? That I can't. I leaned, you know, I'm talking to them, and it just was so funny because it just tickled my fancy that here are people who, they do this commute a lot. And can you imagine if you're commute every day, and you like this podcast, you're listening to it, and you're part of your regular diet, and next thing you know, I'm sticking my head in your window? It's like they summoned you.

Yes, exactly. It was like the conjuring. And so it got me thinking that I should make it. I want to pledge to people out there who listen to this on a commute. There's a decent chance you will encounter me while you're in your car, and I will stick my head in the window. Yeah. The more you listen, the more that is likely.

Yes. And it'll be kind of like, you know, when you hear sometimes about someone who hits a deer with their car, and the deer gets partially through the windshield, and then the deer starts thrashing. That's me. If I know you've been listening to the podcast, and I encounter you, and I stick my head in, I may become wild and start thrashing. Oh, man.

Yeah. And then you've got to just put me out of my misery as quickly as possible. Do you ever get upset that people mention the podcast, but don't mention that 28 years you were on television? You know what's so funny? I don't. Really? Yeah.

You'd think I would. I think if someone went way out of their way to say, I love this podcast, what were you doing before that would... Well, it means they're keeping up with you. That's a good sign. Thank you, I have, you know, it doesn't happen a lot, but there are still times that I encounter someone and they go like, oh my God, Conan Bryant, I just love what you did on The Simpsons. And I'll say, oh, that's great.

And they sometimes almost look like they don't know what happened after that. And so I'm happy if anyone likes anything I did. If someone says that that crocheted pot holder you made for Mrs. Gaines in the fifth grade was just killer, I'll take it. So I'm just happy that people like it, but it did get me interested in, oh right, people listen, a lot of people listen to podcasts while they're commuting. And I just want you to know if you're commuting right now or if you're in your car and you're listening.

Look in your backseat. Look in the backseat. And I'm gonna say there's an 11% chance I will rise up behind you. You'll see me in the rearview mirror. And I'll give you the old Nixon motorboat. No! No! Come here, Pat.

Come here, Pat. No! No, Dick, no! I'm gonna get in those boobies, sir. Hold them in, Ehrlichman, get in here. He's motorboating those guys, too? No, he wants them to watch. He wants Holderman and Ehrlichman to watch him motorboat Pat.

Got it. This is what was on the missing portion of the Watergate case. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He wasn't worried about being caught when they suspected him of having his assistant, Rosemary Woods, delete the crucial 18 minutes. That little floating pebble. It wasn't him worried about being caught orchestrating the break-in or the cover-up of the Watergate.

It was the 18 minutes of him motorboarding Pat. How about the old five o'clock shadow grow out a little bit? No! There's no reflection there. It killed peace signs in the air. No! Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, why this shadow?

Yeah. It's just gonna hurt. No, just if you grow it out just a little bit. It's a little bit of... It's an exfoliant. Yeah, it's an exfoliant. Yeah. Come here.

Oh, you'll lose your loofah? Come here. Take off your top. Please, Mr. President, if you don't have a loofah, take off your top. I'm gonna give you the breasts of a 20-year-old. I'm gonna loof you up real good. Give me the old Dick Nixon motorboat. No, checkers, don't go in there.

All right, we gotta get... All right, let's get going. Let's get going. We have to start the episode. It's more that we have to end this. I don't think our guest has probably left. My guest today, of course, played Glenn on the hit AMC series, The Walking Dead. He also starred in the Oscar-nominated film, Minari.

And now you can see him in Jordan Peele's latest movie, Nope. I love this guy, and I'm thrilled he's with us today. Steven Young, welcome. I'll say it up front. I adore you in every way that one man can adore another. Same. I was just thrilled that you were coming in today and that we were gonna get to talk. Thank you.

It always does me well. It does. To have Steven in my life, to have some Steven time just does me well. That's too kind. It's always great with you too. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is if you open the floodgates for me, I'll just gush, so I'll just keep it tempered.

But I feel the same, and I think for me what I've really appreciated is you've always allowed space for me to grow, the structure that you do have. You have you, you have your show, you have kind of, I don't want to call it an institution, but yeah, you've built a thing in which people come and maybe feel like they have to conform to the thing, but you've always allowed me to show up over time in different stages of my own life. Well, it's funny. It was, it just happens naturally, I think, with you because you have so many different

facets. I mean, when we, you would first come on as, oh, you're, you know, it's Steven from The Walking Dead. It's this huge show and you'd come on, but it was so clear to me right away that there's so many facets to you, which you've shown over time. But when I first got to know you, it was, well, this is a former second city guy who probably was interested in sketch comedy and then got into very quickly when you came out to LA.

You got that Walking Dead gig, right? So quick. So quick. Like within a matter of months. Yeah. Literally in like half six months, I got, I got that. Did you have any disappointment before you got that gig? I did.

I had, I was out for pilot season and I had auditioned for this network pilot that I got to the last stage. It was me and this other guy and I didn't get it. And I was like, decimated that day. I was, they've told this story, but like I was eating at an IHOP by myself and like, well, that's, first of all, that's just a sign of trouble right away. That's up there with drinking alone. You can't go on IHOP alone.

Oh, not by yourself. You give me all the pancakes. All of them. It was, it was. Mr. Young, please. All of them. It was not great. And so yeah, I got a phone call there saying I didn't get it.

I thought it was done and then, you know, two months later or the thing that I couldn't have gotten if I had gotten. Yes. Original thing. So I don't know. After that, I just stopped. I mean, I still bug out, but I stopped like forcing it. These disappointments that you hit along the way.

And I believe I've said this, but I was convinced it was my destiny to be a writer for late night with David Letterman. Like my, like that is the key. You know, and it almost feels like Lord of the Rings. If I don't, I need to cross that bridge to get to the other side. I'm just trying to pull gorely. And I need to cross that bridge. I love bridges.

Yeah. Hates all Tolkien and Lord of the Rings, but any kind of bridge talk, he's into. We'll talk. We talked for an hour about the tribe or the other day suspensions next week. Yeah, we are. We'll get to it. I'm sorry. Just excited.

It's next week. It's next week. And I have the specs you asked for. But no, it felt like the only way to get to the magic land is I need to be doing for Dave what, you know, I need to be a writer on that show and I need to do some performing on that show. And that's, I just felt that that was the thing that had to happen. And when it didn't happen, I thought, well, that's it.

Now if I later on helicopter out, I call it Google Earth. If you pull way out and look at your whole life, if that had happened, I would not have worked for Lorne Michaels, who would not have noticed me and thought, hmm, maybe that idiot could run, could be a talk show host. None of that would have ever happened if the thing I wanted it, you know, and to happen happened. So I wouldn't change a thing. And that includes a lot of missteps and disasters along the way.

But people need to know that they need to know that because in that moment when you're sitting in an eye hop, yeah, and you get that call, and you just look at the way Christian go like, more, more syrup swarming. I go to an eye hop alone every morning. What am I doing wrong? You're doing right. No, no, no. You're doing right.

You're doing you. That's you. All right. It's not sad when you do it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. For me, it's a celebration.

But I hop alone. Well, now you have twins. Oh, yeah, yeah. So going alone is a celebration. Going anywhere alone. I mean, you've been through this. You have two young kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I am no longer in that boat. My kids are teenagers, but when they were little, if someone said, we have an iron maiden here, you know, we're going to lock you in it and spikes are going to go into your flesh, I would say, would I be alone? Well, yeah. So my kids wouldn't be with me. No. Okay.

Clang. Mr. Brian, we're supposed to lock you in it. You're not supposed to jump into it and shut it behind you. I said no calls. I said no calls. But yeah, I mean, that's, well, what you were saying earlier too, kind of, I've been thinking a lot about or constantly reminded of, of not just you can't control things, but also you can't take the thing that brought you to that point with you when you want to go

to the new place, if that makes sense, what I just said. So, yes, it does to me to look at your situation where I think just months, five months after getting to LA, you're cast in Walking Dead, which then becomes one of the most popular TV shows on television and is this huge success and you're a major, your character's a big part of it and you're there for five seasons. Seven seasons. I liked five. Yeah, five is good.

Five is clean. But do you guys need a sex? You want to just shake it and call it? No, no, no. I watched the show is great all the way through, but I thought you phoned it in for two and I think that was two. The last two were really just, yeah, I agree. You could actually see you look into the lens, you'd shoot the lens and you'd shake your

head like. I was going to let that. Yeah. It's coming, guys. No, but you, you must have, you get the word that, okay, here's what's happening to your character, which I imagine maybe felt somewhat like your IHOP moment. By the way, IHOP will no longer, they'll no longer buy ads with us. IHOP moment is now considered a career failure.

Or the beginning of something great. Hey, let's spin it. Let's spin it. Let's take you guys some IHOP. Yeah. You may be underestimating how many listeners are alone in an IHOP listening. Listen, if you're there right now, I apologize. Mix the coconut and the blueberry syrup, you won't be disappointed.

Well, you know what's so funny? I was on a hike literally yesterday and I got stopped by these two dudes that were like, oh, hey, you look like Glenn. I was like, yeah, I was on the show. And then they go, hey, did they kill you off or like, did you want to leave? And they gave me like two options of like, did they force you out or did you want to leave? And I was like, it's not like that.

Like, and I was with my children and they were like really trying to get to the meat of like, was I pushed out or not? And for me, I'm like, I don't have time to explain this to you first off because I have two children. We got to go home. It's sweltering. It's a hike. But also I was trying to, I didn't know how to succinctly say like, sometimes you just

accept what it is and you just go with it. Like there's no tension behind any of those things. Like when someone presents to you after five, six seasons on a show and they go, hey, looks like this is the end for you. And also with the added like bonus of me having a comic book issue come out two years prior that says I'm done, you go like, okay, like, am I scared? Am I kind of worried about what's coming? Like perhaps, but also, okay, like that's just what that is.

Like I'm not going to go like kicking and screaming. But also to the point of what you brought up before, which is you can't bring it with you. You made this, I don't know if it was a conscious decision, but somehow you knew, okay, I'm leaving this experience and I'm not going to try and replicate it, duplicate it. I'm not going to try and find this someplace else and keep it going. It's time to change it up. Yeah.

And I don't even know if it's that conscious. I just think it's like manifest for me is like my police voice in my head says, if you do it again, you're a hack. And so I just don't do it again. I can't. I cringe at that for me personally. Right. Also, it's not like your character could have come back because they made it so clear.

The way in which you departed that show was so unbelievably brutal. One of the most shocking things I've seen on television and I'm including my own early work. 93, 94, but I was just, I, you know, it's not like Glenn could come back and go, I've got a terrible headache. Yeah. And my eyes knocked out, but I think I'm okay. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's it too. Like those are the, those are the blessings that I feel like I've gotten in my life, which is like an absolute door shut. Yep. Like there's not like, there's not like a crack in the door. It's like, this is slam shut and it's like barricaded. You can't come back in.

What are you going to do? You're going to like petition outside the door. Like they're not going to open it. I have to say, because you and I have been friendly and know each other and I really like you, uh, I got, I will admit the actor who plays Negan, who killed you with the baseball bat. Yeah. Jeffrey Dean Morgan.

Yeah. Jeffrey Dean Morgan. He, um, he came on our shows at Comic Con and I swear to God, it took, it was an effort for me to not have attitude and I'm an, I'm an adult. I'm, I'm an, you know, rapidly aging adult who understand, who's in show business and understands. I had a little bit of trouble like, you fucker, you killed my friend and, uh, it was just, it was in there a little bit.

I think I cut him off a few times on his anecdotes or I read the notes and read to what joke he was going to do and got there first. Yeah. Yeah. More like a grapefruit, right? What? What's the time we have for this asshole murderer, uh, why don't you get your bat and get the fuck out of here.

Oh God. Friend killer. He had such a hard gig to like show up, displace the foundation of the show and then like continue on. Yeah. They didn't stick around. Yeah. Like be there.

Now let's show the lighter side of Negan. Yeah. Wild. I have this theory that I actually got from my father, um, who has many disreputable theories, which we'll talk about in another show. I'm all about those. Yeah. Um, but my, my father, when I was a kid, he explained to me once, he thought that it's

really good when kids don't quite know where they fit. If a kid is too secure in their environment, they grew up maybe too self-satisfied, whereas if there's a little bit of, uh, questioning, he, and I don't think he was intentionally trying to make this happen, but he just sort of knew. I grew up not quite knowing, where are we? Are we doing pretty well, but are we middle class? Do we, we have a really shitty car, um, we're in a nice house, but I'm Irish, but I don't play hockey like all the other kids who are Irish Catholic and they kind of don't like

me and, uh, Jewish kids really like me. I don't quite, I'm not an athlete. I don't quite know where I fit in to my environment, but I think my dad might have had a point about that. And when I think about your life, I think whatever discomfort I may have had, I think for you might have been like to the third power because you were, first of all, you're born in South Korea. When did your parents emigrate?

We emigrated, uh, 88. Right. Yeah. Like, um, we, my dad was so impatient, uh, he should have just waited. He owned a home in Seoul. He was doing well for himself as an architect and he just wanted to leave so bad. My mom was like, wait till the Olympics. Maybe the housing value will go up and then you can have some money to move over here.

And he was like, nope, getting out of here. And we just jumped on a plane, went to Canada and we're here now. And how long were you in Canada before you a year? And then you came to, went to Michigan, went to Michigan. Yeah. But I think the key component of all of this is that my parents didn't explain anything. Like I recently, once I had my kids, I was talking to my dad, who's the sweetest man, but he, uh, he was just like talking about my son while he was standing there.

My son is like two or three at the time. And he was like, oh, he doesn't know. And I'm like, he knows. I'm like, he's, he's taking in everything you're pointing out. Like he might not be able to conceptually understand it and speak to you about it. But like he feels everything. And it made me understand. I was like, oh, you didn't explain anything when we, like you literally took like safety

and then displaced it and didn't explain anything. That's a huge move for someone such a young age to be hurled over into Canada and then make your way down to Michigan. Yeah. You're part of this completely different culture. Yeah. And did your, were your parents fluent in English? No.

And that's the thing too, is that like the, the dark, like the dark part of it that takes a while is like first you're displaced and then there's a slow separation from your parents over years because I get more ingratiated into this place and they're still like stuck where they're at. Well, you have some of that. So now, right? Oh yeah. Everything you're saying, I'm totally.

Your parents came to, from Armenia to, well, they came from Istanbul. Both of them did. Yeah. My dad came in the 60s. My mom came in the 70s. They got married here. Had both me and my dad brother here, but they're still very, I mean, when you, when your parents immigrated here, they probably went towards where other Koreans were, which is what my

family did with Armenians. And so, you know, it's the exact same thing. Yeah. You know, it's like, how much do you assimilate? How much do you stay true to who you are? And it's. And what feels like a betrayal? Yes.

Is it a betrayal that you became so, you know, you're such a, some of your values are probably very different from your parents. Very different. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Total lack of morality. Okay.

Well, seriously, whatever. I feel it. Well, I think like, you know, like when we talk about them, they do feel intense, especially these days when we're putting spotlight on these things. But I think what's really great that it feels like we're coming to is like these stories of isolation or feeling abandonment or separation are universal. And also so American in some weird way, like every time I lead with or if I lead with this story of like my immigration, young trauma, I realize that like kind of really deeply

connects with everybody. It's like, oh, I felt majorly alone as well. And something that's interesting as a theme in my life these days is isolation. And I don't know what the answers are for that, but like, is that what everything is about? You mean some of the things that you're working on in your work, you mean in your life? In work. But then like, you know, you like draw the, you like do the whole diagram of like, what

does this fundamental thing about? And it's like, oh, like, I'm scared to be alone. Like that's the root of like most of the things. Like in the same way that like we talk about, you can't bring the thing that got you there with you, the pension to want to hold on to that thing is like, well, if I let this go, they might, they might like let me go. If I don't pass through with this accolade, they might not allow me into this next stage or coming onto your show, it could have been like, I have to deliver how I was in the beginning

or else I might not be able to come back again. But instead, every time I showed up, you're like, yeah, like whatever you want to do is like how you are. And that's cool. And I'm like, I don't even have laziness on my mind. You're going to crack the whip or you're like, ah, people around me were saying, you should get them to do what he did last time. It was so great.

I'm like, I don't know. I don't even want to look at the notes. Let's bring them out here. Let's crank this thing out. Let's get me to the grave as fast as we can. Get me to the grave is my new, that's my new catchphrase. Get me to the grave. Get me to the grave.

You know, it's funny because I hear one of the things that is a gift to me is throughout my career, I'd make these silly things with people that had nothing to do with anything that wasn't, they weren't political. They weren't based on the news. They were just silly. And you had this idea to take me to this spa, this Korean spa here in LA. So I took you up on it. And I know, I think once a week, maybe or once every two weeks, people come up to me

and they love it and I have a lot of Koreans that come up that know that you and I went to Korea together and spend this gift because it wasn't intentional. We just did it because we knew, you knew, you said, oh my God, if I bring this tall red-haired woman to a spa and these women walk on his back and he has to get in a freezing plunge pool and stuff, this is just going to be funny. And it was, it was really delightful and it holds up nicely after all this time. But it also was, I think, helped me appreciate how much I loved going and checking out other cultures and me being the joke.

You know what I mean? I enjoyed putting myself in situations in other countries where I'm the odd man out and they're kind of laughing at me and I don't quite get it. And I mean, I think if we hadn't, we did that remote and then we ended up going to Korea together and it was such, you know, we were improvising a lot. We were on buses, we were exhausted. We were also dealing with social media in, in South Korea. So hypersensitive.

Yeah. I mean, they love you, but then if you do one thing that they, they can feel slighted, but then if you do one other thing to correct that, then they love you again. And I remember you were helping us navigate. Don't do that. Okay. Well, here's the rub though. And why, and I'm just kind of coming to this now that maybe those, those remotes and like

those bits kind of worked was also I was incredibly unreliable. Yes. I wasn't also not you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it wasn't like an interpreter and you, it was like a fallible guide that is mostly American also going along, but like interesting because like I'd be, the gaze of that country would reflect off of me a little differently than you.

Right. And you could notice that. Really? What do you mean? I mean, from, if you watch it, I think you can notice it until you get to that point where you're like, Hey, what is this dish? And I'm like, I have no clue. I kept forgetting that, wait a minute.

You're a Canadian guy who went to Michigan as much as you're a South Korean, but I was like, there's a lot of times I'll make Steven, tell us about this wonderful ritual and you're like, I have no idea. I don't know. No one explained this. Yeah. I'll explain the Detroit Pistons lineup to you, but I can't help you with what this monk is saying right now.

Well, that's a thing too. Like it just gets me really interested in like, man, like we're living such a global life now. Yeah. So many gazes now available for all of us to kind of consume and take in. I can't even imagine all the things that have shifted in the wake of that. Like that we're just not even aware of. We had an amazing moment.

We went to, you and I got in a bus with my crew and we drove and drove and drove and drove and drove and we got to the, like this beautiful mountaintop. I remember it was cold. It was cold in South Korea. And like an idiot, I was like, right, it gets cold. I remember that from M.A.S.H. There were episodes where they were cold, like Conan, come on, not everything is 1970s TV.

No, no, no. I remember major burns shivering and eating a blanket. So yes, it gets cold in Korea, but it was really cold and we went to the top of this mountain and there was a monastery and you and I went and there was, it was so, I mean, it really looked the part, this very spiritual place and they took us through and they were teaching us how to meditate and pray and bow and we were, you know, these monks just seemed like they had found the answer and remember thinking they figured it out. They figured out the answer.

And then at one point we had a break and shooting and one of the monks was gesturing me. He didn't speak English, but he was like, he wanted to show me something. He took me out back and he showed me their, their massive satellite for streaming content. And then I was like, what do you watch? They're like, oh, Breaking Bad, you know, you know, we watch two, two phones. She had an iPhone and a Samsung. Yes. He had an iPhone, one phone rang and he was like darn phone.

They went to switch it off because I thought, when I leave this, once I leave this temple, I shall, I shall throw away my phone because, and then the monk is like, damn it. And he reaches in and turns off one of his phones, but it's the wrong phone. And then I see he's playing, you know, some game, you know, he's, he's, he's building his Sims world. I don't know, but it was a really great experience and funny and I like experiences that humble me and I've noticed that, and I think we're similar that way. We both could tell that we didn't quite know what was going on.

We didn't quite fit in this environment and yet that was sort of the fun of it. That was the charge. Oh man. After the kids came, that's it, right? Like submission, right? Like that's to me, just so you have a five year old, five year old and a three year old. So you're really in it right now. So in it.

Yeah. So tired. Yeah. Like sometimes there's just nothing better than like the act of submission just to not have choices, but what's in front of you is like kind of the most beautiful thing. I hate choices. I agonize about them. Yeah.

Like I can't decide between A or B. It's like, it's like nuclear warfare in my brain. Our big thing is our daughter was born and it was so long. She's 18 now. So this was quite a while ago, but it was so long before we could go to see a movie. And I remember I made it all about that. I just want to go to a movie. Wouldn't it be amazing to go to a movie and I remember like planning it out and my wife finally agreeing after a long time, it's about a year ago, my daughter turned 17.

No. But I'm planning out like this is now we're going to. Okay. She's agreed. We could go see a movie when we're in New York and we went and we saw, I chose Master and Commander. Oh, okay. And you know, which is a great film and we're sitting there.

And I could see my wife waiting throughout the whole movie to spring up like a jack-in-the-box so we could go, which, you know, it wasn't, she wasn't just losing herself in the movie. And I was like, I love this movie, but I could tell my wife was a burning coal. I've got to get back because I created this life and I must be with it at all times and I really respect that. But I was like, we're going to watch this movie to the end. And then at the very, there's the last line, which by the way, as well, I certainly am a master and commander.

Wait, Russell Crowe says that at the end. He says that at the end. And don't check this out. But Russell Crowe, it's weird, he turns right to lens, it's a very controversial ending. And he says, I certainly am a master and commander. And then the first credit came up. My wife jumped out of her seat and half ran and we were right there near the plaza, that theater that's right near the plaza on the Upper East Side near the park.

She leapt up and started running pretty much out of the theater to jump in a cab. And I had to catch her. She was going to leave me if we didn't get back to our daughter. And so, yeah, that was our last movie for quite a while. But whenever I see that movie now, I have this tension that has nothing to do with the movie because it's all about that period of time when there was no, we're not going to a restaurant. We're not going anywhere.

We're not seeing a movie. Yeah. Yeah. There's always those weird, a weird thing that happened to me recently is like, my wife now started finding like her freedom. Like she's now chosen to like, oh, cool, the kids are starting school, let me go do my thing. And like for the longest time, I was like very secure about our relationship.

I was like, yeah, like it's all good. And then she started having her own life. And then I was like, why do I feel so insecure all of a sudden? And I realized I was like, oh, it's because there was a false sense of security because you chose to be home a lot. And it was like a predictable thing for me. And now that you're out there doing your thing, I'm like, oh, I'm being tasked now to like let that go.

And like someone said to me this where I was like, it's fun, it's nice to lead because you can never be left behind. And I was like, whoa. What's her thing? That's the other thing. Because I got jealous when my wife went back to her thing, which is running a kissing booth. And I got jealous. That's the dumbest thing I've said in a while.

I love it. I'm jealous of my wife's work. What does she do? She has a kissing booth. Five cents a smooch. No, I just went hung out with her friends. It wasn't even that thing. It was just like...

That's what she says. Oh, that's true. True. No, I'm spiraling. So weird she said that. It was so simple. And that threw me off in that way, which then looped back to like the source of all of my bullshit, which is like, am I okay being by myself?

If I choose it, I can. But if it's like placed upon me, that becomes this whole equation in my head that I got to deal with. Right. We're getting to it, guys. I'm sorry. This is good. I'm sorry.

This is supposed to be therapy in some ways. And so... No, but I know that. I love... I swear to God, I think half the reason that I wanted to build this place that we're in right now is because I need a place to go where people have to listen to me, riff and a safe, spin out, foolish, say nonsense. And people just roll their eyes and be like, yeah, it's a safe space for me to act like

an idiot. It is. But for no one else. I was going to say, it's not safe for everybody else. Yeah, shut up. Just shut up. Just shut up. And I have to taste that.

Shut up. Right, right, right. Just shut up. Did you know that you were going to get into film when you left? You know what was really crazy was when I left that show, I actually had no clue what was possible for me. I recently saw this YouTube video, I think it was like a big think video talking about how a long time ago when the first guy broke like the impossible mile, went sub-4, right?

Yup, 4. They thought that was crazy, that he was some freak, and then like a week later, somebody else broke that. And then a week later, somebody else broke that. And it made me think a lot about like, if you can't see it, you can't push through that. Like if you can't even envision that for yourself, you have nowhere to go. And so I don't know how it happened, but it wasn't this conscious choice of like, oh, I'm going into film.

It was more just like, I'm willing to let go of the thing that got me here in its totality. Because there was a lot of talk of like, striking when the irons hot, and they're like, you better get something now, while you're in the mix, and it wasn't this like, oh, screw that I'm not doing that. It was more just like, all the things that are presented in front of me, all the hot iron strikes are very literal and obvious. And something that felt like a repeat of what I'd just done. And so those were very simple notes.

It wasn't like this agonizing decision, I was just like, I did that, no thank you. And I think just that act of saying no, opened up the path to, I have no idea how I'm here now, but I couldn't envision this, I'm just doing this now. So yeah, I think about that a lot, like just five, six, seven years ago, if you would have asked me if I would have been able to be in these films that I've been in, I would have been like, there's no way, like I can't even, I would have made up something that said like, the industry would never allow me to do that. And I'm like, who would stop you?

Like there's, you just build, I mean, maybe, I have no idea, but it became this feedback loop for me of just like stopping myself. So awesome that you got your Oscar nomination and such a great, you know, achievement for you personally. And then of course it was written about a lot that this was a first, you know, and that you were breaking ground. But I wondered how much of that, because you're a very sensitive person who, you know, is about as, you're a very humble and sensitive person.

And I wondered, was that at all tricky, the balancing act of feeling the weight of this mantle of you are a first and you represent, you know, a whole culture and a people and you, I could see you seeing it for the complicated thing that it is. Yeah, it was very complicated for me. I don't even know if I found like a, like a good resting place about that. But like, I think, I think for me, how I thought about it was, first it was a feeling of like, it feels weird to extract more value out of this. Like the accolade itself is such an incredible thing.

It doesn't make sense for me to like stand up on a soapbox about it and like claim it and like eat off of it. It felt like enough to just like somehow be part of the process of attaining that thing or like having that thing be broken. And then there's just going to be other people right behind me that are going to do that and like better probably. So I've, it just, it felt like I didn't need to like cement myself there. And it may, it may have turned people off.

It may have turned people off to be like, why wouldn't you like rep the community or like, or like really plant a flag and I'm like, I'm pretty sure the flag's been planted. Like it's, it's there. Like it's also the act of the movie. I'm going to make sure I'm saying it right. Minari. Minari, I, no judgment if anybody says it's Minari, but like how it's like asking someone. No, it's Minari.

He has Minari. Say it with me. Minari. Minari. Minari, like you can't, I'm not, Minari's, Minari's great. Minari's great. I love being like, no, no, no, no, say it again. Minari is great.

And it's, it's just a great movie. It was a great story and it was beautifully told. And so to me, the triumph is the work and then you are who you are and that means what it means. But I understand what you're saying. There's a, there's a through line here throughout the whole conversation that I respect and I understand which is, and this is old saying that you can't, anything you can put your hands on in this life and feel you can't take with you into the next life.

And I think we do get very obsessed with accolades, people get obsessed with, this is what I achieved and I've thought that it's really good to minimize those things as much as you can and just think, was the work good? How was the work? And the work there was really beautiful. That movie really moved me a lot. It felt very real and honest to me and also not manipulative. There are some movies that take me to a place, really make me care about people and then

kill everybody. And that's powerful with a capital P and no, this was, this was very, this was very nuanced. The battle always becomes like how much of a thing that you're trying to make has embedded within it. And I don't want to say ego because it's so like overly like talked about at the point. But I mean more like how much of it like is possessed by you. It's not your, like this idea is not mine. Like someone would have thought of it, someone would have come up with it, Isaac came up

with it. It just happened to be expressed in this moment through these individuals, but like I feel like certain, the things that you call manipulative, I think it's because they have this tinge of being like, I want to like own the part of this moment and I need you to like feel my ownership of it. So I'm going to like tell you how it, this is mine and not yours. But I think the whole part of Meenari, especially when I know Isaac, like Isaac is such a beautiful selfless human.

He wants to invite people to the table, his table to eat. And then that's it. Like he doesn't need like payment. He doesn't need like someone to like write an essay about it. He doesn't need like any more extraction of value than just like simply enjoying this meal that you can connect to as well. And I think how that manifests with the movie was just like, we don't want any barriers of entry for people outside the culture and in the culture.

I went through an immigrant experience that had its own traumas, but like there are parallels to other people's experiences with that. And like, but there's always this need sometimes when you're making something that hasn't been seen before to lay claim and ownership over that thing. Because maybe you want to plant your flag that you're the first one. And I'm like, is that, you don't want to be the first one like railroad that with like a better time. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, oh, cool. I beat the four minute mile, but like you say, boat doesn't care. Yeah. You know, right. So I don't know. I'm all that to say, like I'm not a selfless person. I'm incredibly ambitious as well.

And I think part of where my ambition comes in is I feel like I've learned that I cannot take the boat I carved with me to the next place, like I have to like completely let it go and then go make a new one. Yeah. The reminds me of that. And the boat analogy is, and I've always loved this is like the Vikings when they showed up somewhere, they would, the first thing it was like, burn the ships. Yeah.

And it meant like, we're not leaving. Yeah. Now that's over. So anyone who's half their head is into, we've got to get back, you know. So no, we're not going anywhere. Because we're here now. And if we do get back, it's because we accomplish a lot here, which usually was horrible stuff. Yeah.

Pretty bad. Pretty bad. But what I'm saying is the raping and the pillaging has to happen first. That's the thing I've always admired about you, especially when we were talking, when you went to Korea, I was just like, oh, you, you just go with it. Whether we're all humans. So like going with it also implies like flailing about while it's happening. Oh, I'm the master of flailing.

Same. That's my medium. But in the end, you accept the terms, you know, and like, I know a lot of people who are still caught in not accepting the terms, and it's, it's rough while what I watch some people go through. And I can see how that I could easily go through that same thing. It's not something that's easy to not do. It's more just to say like, oh, like we all have this desire to like grip tight to this

last thing that we had. Now, I know nobody knows much about this Jordan Peele film. And I'm very excited. And I also love that I don't know what's happening and that very little has been said. And to me, that feels in such a, it's a compliment, but Jordan Peele is really good at it. I think JJ Abrams is really good at it. They almost have like an old fashioned sense. Yeah.

It's wrinkling brothers and Barnum and Bailey like, wait, you're gonna, we got something for you, but you have to come into the tent when the show happens and then you'll be blown away. And we have a culture that gives away way too much before things happen now. I can't tell you, my kids always want to watch the trailer to a film before they watch the film. Yes. And they have them on Netflix and they'll say, look, let's watch the trailer.

And they basically want to watch. They want to know what Citizen Kane is about and they want to know what Rosebud is before we watch the movie. Yeah. Like, no, no, just to experience it. But it's culturally, I think. My five year old does it already. Really?

He's like, let me watch the trailer. I'm like, what are you talking about? It's good. Just to trust. This is a movie I'm in. Yeah. What are you doing? I was nominated for an Oscar for this film.

Let's check out the trailer. Let me see the trailer. Yeah. There's something about the way like trailers and all these things like pull us out of like experiencing what is happening right in front of you. And I do respect deeply what Jordan's doing, which is like bringing it back to like, remember when we were like there and paying attention at the same time and like experiencing something together.

I really think that was like the draw of Top Gun for me. Like, like, I, I, I, people, the people went bonkers for that. You can, you know, come up with a bunch of like conclusions about what that was. But like for me, it was just like, oh, I forgot we can all show up here. Know nothing about how this is going to go and just communally watch this and like be present with all of, with each other on this side. Yeah. I thought that was really one thing I wasn't expecting was at the top of the movie.

Wait. Don't spoil it. This isn't a spoiler. Okay. It's not a spoiler. I have a small child so I can't get out to a movie like what are you guys talking about? I'm not going to ruin the movie. Okay.

I'm not going to ruin the movie for you. I know. I don't believe you. You have a look on your face. I was shocked that he doesn't fly a plane at all. One time. Not once. Yeah.

It opens with him in a hospital and he's no longer allowed to fly because of an inner ear infection and no legs. But it's a lot of him thinking about flying while he eats pudding. I will say I love, first of all, Tom Cruise is my age. And so a huge thing for me was like, it's practically staying in the theater because he looks amazing and he's running around and jumping into a cockpit and making out with this beauty. And I was just like, yes.

We're still here. I know. I know. That's so cool. Now listen, trust me, my powers of self-delusion are so powerful that when Tom Cruise is doing these things, I'm able to say, yes, I'm still attractive to Jennifer Connolly. Jennifer Connolly doesn't care about you. He brought you in.

No, he brought me in. No, I did think there was part of it, which is, and Brad Pitt too, I'm the same age as these guys. And so I know that they are genetically very different from me. I accept that. And they go to a gym and probably eat properly. Yes, there are some differences. But still, I've root for them to keep making movies and getting, you know, you know, having

a make-out scene or a sex scene because that means it just means that, yes, I'm down for it too. I'm totally fine. It means my penis will work again. Oh, well, that's. Did I go too far? That's not how I'm looking at it. Well, the doctors say it won't, but when I see that film, I know it can happen.

Do you see that you're eating pudding and go, yeah. Just crushing viagra into my pudding. Something will give. It's got to. Something will give. Move down it. Move. Don't want to.

Maybe if you stop yelling at it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that took a turn. Hey. But it was nice. And also at the beginning of the film, Tom Cruise, there's just a shot of him saying

hi. Tom Cruise here. We made this movie for you. We worked really hard on it. And I'm glad you can come to the theater and enjoy it. It was. It was. I kind of got a little emotional with that.

Yeah. Yeah. They could have released it. They could have like had you watch it isolate in your own home, but like they saved it for the thing. Like you knew. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't know what I'm scratching at, but like we're definitely we're spoiling

a lot. We're too aware of a lot of things. Yeah. I know too much. I don't want to know all this stuff. So much stuff online and also streaming content and movies. And there's so much in our lives that just isn't honest that when you see something, it's really honest.

And if that means, you know, it's a puppy falling into a blender, not on, not on, not on, momentarily stunned that it fell in the blender, but the blender is unplugged. Yes. Yes. And those are rubber. Rubber blades. Rubber rotors. But then you see it accidentally turned on.

I'm sorry. I know. I'm saying. And the puppy is murdered. There's a joy of discovery when the child runs in. Sorry, Sona. That's your own fault. And you know it.

You should never have come to work for me. I know. That's terrible. Come on. Well, this has been, I mean, you know, we, there's no, I got to wrap it up on a puppy in a blender. It's funny. We've always been on the same wavelength since the first day I met you, but I love

your honesty and your lack of hubris about all this because you've had the kind of achievements that someone could have and frankly just being sufferable and you just continue to say, this is what happened and I'm very fortunate. I work hard. I'm talented, but I'm, I'm, I'm very fortunate and I'm anxious now to see what's next and what's the next, what's the next chapter? What's going to happen next? And you're going to find out along with us, which is exciting.

Yeah. Thank you for something. I don't even know if I could have processed that, but I don't, I don't know as much as y'all. Well, let me tell you, it's a game show and it's a really shitty one, but you make a ton of money. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. It's called who's vomit is this celebrity vomit and you have to look at it as long as it's celebrity. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There's a lot of celery in there. Undigested celery.

I'm going to say, Demi Lovato. Yes. Someone make that show. It's a matter of time. That idea needs to be expressed through somebody. Let's do it now. Yeah. No, let's never do that.

It's horrible. Okay. Steven, thank you so much for coming in and very much looking forward to nope, which is coming out. When is it coming out? Or is that a mystery as well? July 18th is our premiere. That's exciting.

I'm going to. Monday. Monday. Yes. But I think maybe 22nd, July 22nd. Yeah. Yeah. I got to know these things.

I'm really looking forward to it. Well, please come back too because you're a guy who should not just be a one-time guest. You should come back occasionally and you know. I'll come back and not be so serious. I like this. I like this. This was good. I like this.

I was punctuated with idiocy. Serious punctuated with idiocy describes all of my favorite Lincoln speeches. And Gandhi. He'd always work in some material. Idiot. Yes. Thank you for having me. Thanks a lot, Steven.

That was great. We have something very exciting to discuss right now. One of us, I won't say which of us. It could be Matt Gorley, it could be Conan O'Brien, or it could be Sona Movsesian. One of us is about to be a published author. I can definitively say it's not me. Right, I'm not even a published reader.

What? I'm not sure how that joke works, but we'll do some triage on it and figure it out. Sona, this is exciting. You have a book coming out. Tell us, what's the book called? It's called The World's Worst Assistant. Yes, I love it.

Finally, Vindication. I have to say, out of the three of us, it is shocking. I'm the only one who wrote a book. I'm not even kidding. No, it is, especially Conan with you, because you're... I'll get there someday.

But this book was focused on the book. You've written a book called The World's Worst Assistant, and it chronicles what, Sona? It chronicles my time as your assistant. Yes, thank you. And I have to say, I read the book, my wife read the book, we both thought it was spectacular. You are very honest.

There are some real... I know. You are quite honest in this book about the ways in which you took advantage of my kindness and idiocy to make that job a boondoggle for you. And you give great advice for how people can emulate you. Well, I think first, when I first started writing it, I think, I thought, oh, am I gonna make Conan look bad?

And then when I was done with the book, I made you look great, and I made myself look horrible. And I think that, well, no, I do, I look terrible. I think that there's a lot that I have gotten away with, but I think it's a credit to you, because especially now there's a lot of conversation about shitty bosses, and you are not a shitty boss. I think the fact that I could make fun of you

and say things to you means that you're not a shitty boss. Oh, people will read this and go, well, what was his problem? Why didn't he fire her a long time ago? Oh, my God. This guy was asleep at the switch. Oh, my God. No, I have to say, it is very well done. The book is really well done.

It's really funny, and there's some real sweet parts in it, too. And I was very impressed. Your husband does the artwork for it, and it's really good. Yeah. Very funny. He made you look really pathetic. Yes. I spent hours posing for him.

He really captured my complete ability, my complete inability to establish order in a workplace. Yeah, but I did think of how would I want to write a book that I would want to read, and I realized I would want cartoons in a book? So I just put a lot of cartoons and illustrations in pictures. And I wrote the forward.

And you wrote the forward, which is clearly just the strongest best part of the whole book. Yeah, I know. It's a really good book. Yeah, but I mean, it's, you know, and I talk about how my book peaked at the forward, and I think it's very true. I think that I have a prediction that fans of this podcast,

because I'm constantly meeting people who listen to the podcast, they always ask me. And it's funny. I used to get this a lot when I would, for years and years and years when I was doing The Late Night Show or The Conan Show, wherever I was, I could be anywhere in the world. And people would say, where's Andy?

They thought that we traveled together. And, you know, if I walked into a men's room, they didn't know why Andy wasn't with me to take the urinal, you know, to my right, which is the position he's supposed to be assuming. And it's the same thing now because of the podcast. I go places and they go, like, well, where's Sona? Where's Matt?

And I go, well, I'm taking the family on a vacation in Tahiti. Why would I take them with me? But they insist that you guys must be somewhere. But I think fans of the podcast are going to really like the book. I do talk about the podcast because I think this is very nerve wracking sometimes. You guys have done this a lot.

Like, you guys have, you've performed in front of people. You've done so many podcasts. But I think I'm the odd man out having never done it. And it's very, it can be very nerve wracking. But I do talk about how I became a national speech champion and that after that, everything else just didn't matter. What age did you become a speech champion? Come on.

No, I'm serious. I'm asking. I was 20. You were 20 in college. In college. In college, you won a national speech championship. I did. And I remember when I first hired Sona about a month

after I hired her, you dropped that you had been a national speech champion. And then every time you and I would get into an argument, you would bring it up. Like, hey, wait a minute. I'm a national speech champion. I'd say, I know, what does that have to do with the fact that you embezzled $35?

Or you fed gummy worms into the printer as a prank? What does that? I was a national speech champion. I like that. Instead of the world deciding that you peeked too soon, you proclaim, I peeked then. That's exactly right. Takes the pressure off.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do mention how, out of the podcast, my friendship with Matt Gorley started and how that's my favorite part about it. Oh my god, that's really nice. Yeah, but also, you know, you commit crimes. Don't know what you're talking about. And by the way, let's keep the focus on you.

No, I mean, one of the questions is, doesn't the world's worst assistant have the world's worst boss? Possibly, possibly. No, I. You commit crimes. Of course. You've allowed this to happen.

I allowed it to happen. I always thought, even at its very worst, I always thought our interaction was so funny and comical. It was, we were living out a sitcom of the, everything was so upside down. Yeah. With, in our relationship as assistant boss. And, you know, we live in this world now

where people are trying to codify, what does that mean? Rules in the workplace. And you and I always had a completely absurd relationship to one another. And it got to the point where I thought, this is great, this is more important than setting the right example for people in the world. This is just too funny.

And I think it's been borne out over time. And I think one of the things that helps a lot is you're always you. You're always you. And that's what I like about your book, is that your book is very honest. And it is really a reflection of you. Some of the things that you do, that you describe in the book,

may be criminal. Did you check the statute of limitations on any of these things? But it's all done with love. It's all done with love and a real ajwadavira. And I think that's what makes it so much fun. So I'm encouraging people to check out the book. I'm excited for it to come out.

And excited for people to read just what you've done. That's true. It is very true. A lot of it has been a lot of fun. And it's been so much fun being your assistant. And I love it. And I'm going to do it till I die. I'm just going to ride those coattails forever. That's true.

Just use those perks that I get. One of my favorite pictures that we had in the old office was we were doing some event. And it's me taking selfies with about 900 people in the background. And you're in the foreground not helping get off drinking the largest pour of chardonnay you've ever seen.

Someone put half a bottle of chardonnay into a glass. And you are enjoying it so much. And I'm in the background working my ass off. There it is. I love that photo. There it is. There it is. I love it.

There it is. Oh, and look at your face. Your face is kind of like, oh, I hope he's OK. Oh my god. My friends have been having me sign it. I know. I got to find the clean version. Go to Team Cocoa Instagram.

Yeah, go to Team Cocoa Instagram. We're going to post it. I'm going to find the clean version of it. And Team Cocoa podcast Instagram. So tell us when this book is going to be out and where people can get it. This book comes out July 19th, comes out tomorrow. Right.

And it's available everywhere. Your independent bookstores, your Amazon, your Barnes and Noble. I mean, it's every day. Gas stations, airport kiosks. OK. I don't know. I'm just saying things now.

I don't know where to buy books. I didn't think you did. That's why it's shocking I wrote one. So I am doing three events. One of them is in Seattle. That's tomorrow. One of them is in LA and Matt Gorley is moderating. And then another event is in San Francisco on the 21st.

I don't think you gave dates for two of those, did you? Oh, the 19th Seattle. July 19th Seattle, July 20th, Los Angeles, July 21st, San Francisco. That's so great. I can't. You want to get the word out on your events? Yep.

I'm going to be in the Western Hemisphere. Then I'm going to be in the Southern Hemisphere. And then I'll be sort of towards Europe. Anyway, I'll see you there. I hate this so much. No, you don't. No, I really kind of do. I'm not even joking.

I really hate it. But Matt is moderating one of those events for me, the one in LA on the 20th. And I thank you for doing that, Matt. So crazy. I didn't get the invite. OK, we're just going to use the whole session to shit talk. What if you two realize how much you prefer just

talking to each other without me? And what if it instantly becomes far more successful? We realize that I've been an anchor. I've been an albatross on this the whole time. We do a new podcast called Just We Have Friends. We are friends. We don't need friends. Yeah, it's just the chill chops.

It's called Sona and Matt are emotionally mature adults. And it just buries this podcast. So much more popular. Hey, hello, the podcast. Thanks a lot. No, you're just calling it the most immature one. God, it's so good to listen to real adults who've brains have formed naturally.

Oh, we're only adults relative to you. I don't think relative to the rest of the world. Yeah, you don't set the bar that high. Yeah, you know, I just was out in the hallway and saw Jack McBaron tried to bite him. Oh, no. And he said, sir, stop biting at me. The proof that I should be locked up.

Well, congratulations. Thank you very much. The book, again, is called. The World's Worst Assistant, and forward is written by you. And the book by Sonam of Sesse. By me. And art by. By Tak Baroy and my husband.

Very cool. Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you for your support. Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessean, and Matt Gorely. Produced by me, Matt Gorely. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Salatarov,

and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Your Wolf. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair. And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Will Bekton.

Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brick Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts. And you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien

Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco production in association with the White Stripes Project. Thank you we will give you our final result for this short Ramadan short.