Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Taylor Tomlinson Returns Again

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

Comedian Taylor Tomlinson feels gobsmacked about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Taylor sits down with Conan once again to discuss her new book Actually, Nevermind, high school marching band, bipolar II disorder, losing a parent at a young age, and oddities of American Girl dolls. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/conan. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi, my name is Taylor Tomlinson, and I feel gobsmacked about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Gobsmacked is good, right? My second choice was flummoxed. I'm confused. I should have stuck with gobsmacks. Fall is here, hear the yell. Back to school. Ring the bell. Brand new shoes, walking loose. Climb the fence, books and pens.

I can tell that we are going to need. friends, can tell never we are going to be friends. Hey there and welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a friend. Conan here, Sonam of Sessian. Hello. Okay. Business casual. Wow. She's out for the kill.

Hello. And, of course, Matt Gourley. Hello. We have exciting news, which is Sona. You have a book out. I do. A new book. Second book.

My second book. book too. This is incredible. Yeah. Tell us about this book. Well, my first book was called The World's Worst Assistant. Yes, yes. I agree with the title. Yeah.

I agree with everything that you wrote. The thesis holds. Yeah. But that book was a big success. And really funny and cool. Now you're back for round two and tell us about this book. This one's called the World's Worst Mom. Yes.

So it's pretty much carrying on with the same theme of I don't know what I'm doing. And this time the stakes are higher. No offense. But the stakes are a lot higher. Why do you think they're higher? Because they're like humans I created as opposed to inheriting someone else, someone else's creation. Someone else's damage. It's like your Frankenstein. Frankenstein's monster. Yeah. Okay. I understand that. These are your progeny. Yes. These are your genetic bundles. So you care about them more than my genetic bundles. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. They're my genetic bundle. There's are my kids.

That's what you call your kids. I do. Genetic bundle. Other genetic bundle. We get along great. So what is the process of getting the word out on this book, Ben? Well, you're not involved this time. So, like, as in, you didn't write the foreword.

It's not about, like, my time working for you. So this is, like, the first time I've done anything that's just, like, me and being a mom and stuff. It's very weird and very different. And there are giant crowds and they start shouting, where's Conan? Yeah, people get violent. Yeah, good. Guess what? Good.

That's me in the crowd, by the way. I put on fake mustaches and ladies bonnets. Who's Conan? Both at the same time. Yeah. Where's Conan? I am bearded men. But it's, I do realize, I don't like doing things without you, if that's cool.

I'm just going to ride this. Well, we have a good time together. I'm going to ride your coattails forever. Yes, but you've written a very, I've, I've, I've read this book. It's really funny. Thank you. And the artwork is great. That's tack.

I know. Yeah, that's tag. And the guy who helped me, because I can't do social media stuff. My friend Brad helped me with social media stuff because I need help from other people to do things. But, no, I mean, this book took me two years to write when I first started writing it. Like, I had my house and I lost my house throughout the whole process. So it's been really, it's been really fun. It's like a fun documentation of my time as a mom.

and becoming a mom. Now, do you have to hit the road soon and start making appearances in different places? Yeah, tonight I'm at Largo with Flanny. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, yeah,

and Lori Kilmartin's going to be there, one of your old writers who also works with you on the Oscars and stuff. Lori Kilmartin, one of the best comedy writers, I know. Yeah, and she wrote a book called Shitty Mom that came out a few years ago. Oh, wow. So she and I are going to have like a conversation at Largo.

Then tomorrow I'm in Seattle, and I'm going to see your father-in-law. That's right. You're going to see Jake Pott Wow. Yeah. Liza's dad, who's an amazing human being and a mean jazz guitarist. Really?

Really? Yeah, he's really talented. Oh, I didn't know that. He's the real deal. Oh, that's cool. So that's so cool. You're going to be in Seattle. I love Seattle.

I'm in Seattle all the time. You're going to love it there. I know. And then I go to San Francisco, well, Menlo Park. And then I'm going to see Veronica, my best friend, who lives out there. And then I'm going to go to San Diego. And then that's it. That's my tour.

And we did so much time in San Diego with Comic-Con. Oh, that's where I met TAC. That's right. Yeah, at Comic-Con. That's right. Oh, my God. I've just created your life. Okay.

You really have. I really have. Well, I mean, not in a good way. No, but. Life sucks. No, you're doing well. But remember how you met Amanda at an I hate Conan O'Brien convention? I do.

That's before I knew you, but you remember? Yeah. And there were like tens of thousands of people there. That thing is so packed. I mean, it's so big now that you couldn't even meet anyone. There's just too many people. These are back in the cool days when it was really, like, cool to be hating Conan now, kind of everyone does. So, I don't know.

Yeah, yeah. Back then, it was, like, really fringe. It was. It was cool to hate Conan. Yeah. It wasn't the national media. I hated Conan before it was cool. And so did Amanda.

And America. Well, congrats. Thanks, Cones. I'm proud of you. That's two books now. I know. So it's book number three. I can't do this again.

How about? There's so many words. We write a book? I've never heard an author. Oh, all these words. You have to type so many words. You have to put them in the right order. Yeah.

I remember Shakespeare said that. All these words. How go is King Lear? Ugh. Words. Too many notes. It's like he's Hulk. Words.

Hurt Shakespeare's brain. Shakespeare wants you smash. Well, congrats. I'm happy for you. And I'm going to, it's going to be a great stalking stiffer. Okay. Yeah. For a mom in your life.

I know a mom in my life. Yeah. Yeah. I both have a mom and I'm married to a mom. Yeah. It's a lot. Being a mom is not, not easy. I know.

I know I'm saying. It looks like a piece of cake to me. I know. Hot cake. as I'd go off to work and when I came home, everything was taken care of easy, peasy. It can't be that hard if you got time to write a book about it. Yeah. Come on.

Oh, God. Yeah. You should write a book. Your third book should be all the things that went wrong with your kids while you were writing the second book. Just them wandering into traffic while you're in the background. Words, words, words. All right. Well, congrats.

It is impressive. Congratulations. Thanks, guys. World's worst mom. Run, don't walk to your nearest bookstore. Or walk if it's safer. You should run. You should walk too if it's just safer to walk.

Sounds like pretty good mom advice. Maybe you learned a thing or two. Thank you very much. Yeah. World's worst mom would say, run with your eyes closed to the nearest bookstore. Holding scissors. All right, let's do this.

My guest today is a hilarious comedian. I really admire her. She has a fantastic new book out titled Actually Never Mind, which is out now. It is a real joy for me when she stops by. Taylor Thomason, welcome. I'll never forget the day I first met you. I was doing a tour with a bunch of stand-ups,

and they told me, oh, Taylor Thomas is going to come in. Because one person cycled out, you came in to join us, and you show up, they told me Taylor's here. She's in rough shape. I don't know if you remember this, but you were really sick. Really sick. Which crazy to get on a jet with someone as important as you, fully ill.

Like, this was pre-COVID. So it was like back when you were supposed to push through stuff. Yes. But in hindsight, that was so disrespectful of me. I went in full palm shan shake. Yep. Just like on death's door like, like, me, you come in. I like your son.

I'm going to sit by the bathroom on the plane. You were the palest. Yeah. She was because you are, you know, beautiful, light complexion, but you had, you were, you looked like a corpse. Yeah, it was tough. You weren't saying much. Yeah.

And you were like, and I had not reached a point in my career where I could say no to anything. Right. There was no, like, take care of yourself. You know, the longevity of your career is, more important. I was still at a place where it was like, we don't know if you're going to be around in a few years. You're still, you still got to prove yourself. I could have said to you, I'm concerned. I don't think you should go out there, but I didn't say that. No, you should have said,

you should have left me on the tarmac. You should have been, hey, I'm very important and I can't get sick. Hours after I met you, my lungs collapsed. I had a fever of 140, which I'm told is a record. No, but you were, you know, it's so funny because one of your things that you've said about yourself is you've been doing stand-up for such a long time and you've said that you just now think you're really getting good at it. And I thought, well, that's insane because I saw you toured with you so many years ago and you were phenomenal right away. And I remember at the time thinking she's a kid. You were so young, but you were phenomenal right away. So the idea that you only now are saying to yourself, I think I'm getting the hang of this, is fascinating.

Well, the other thing about starting so young is people are impressed that you're young so that you kind of don't know. Like when I turned 30, people were like, they straight upset me like, oh, you're a person now. Like, oh, it's like you have to be good for real, kind of. Right, right. And when you're young, you're like, am I just good for my age? is that sort of influencing people's opinion

of how talented I may or may not be. And now I'm like firmly in my 30s and I'm like, okay, I think I've done four specials. I think I know what I'm doing. And to then write a book, which is something I've never done, was a real good way to bring yourself right back down to zero and really humble yourself.

And you just kind of have to keep doing new things that you don't know if you're good at or not, I guess. But yeah, it's so funny. I was talking to someone the other day. I was like, oh, I was complaining about being young all through my 20s, like on stage, offstage. I was like, oh, I'm so bad at being in my 20s. And now I'm in my 30s and I'm like, I'm not great at this either. I might just be bad at being a person.

I thought it was the casing, but it's the meat. It's the meat of me. It's lacking, as it turns out. Well, I do want to congratulate you because you have written this wonderful book called Actually Nevermind. And also, I think a first on this podcast, as Matt Goreley pointed out, minutes before we started, everyone comes in and they bring a copy of their book. And it's always the same thing. It's just the cover because the book isn't ready yet. And so I'm always like, oh, wow, Al Pacino, you wrote a book.

And he's like, yeah, I wrote a book. And I open it up and inside it says, you know, I realize that it's a book about a woman's menstrual cycle. That they've just taken any book. Yeah, I wrote it. I wrote it. I remember when I first got my period. I was like, who are? But I'm always blown away by like, what fucking book is inside this cover?

But you actually got your shit together, Taylor. Well, those just came in this week. And yeah, the first, like, you know, sort of unboxing video I had to do where I was like, my book comes out was not my book. It was just a cover on someone else's book. And so you're kind of like, hope no one can see me lying in the video that we're doing to promote this. And then I did like a real unboxing. And that's also just crazy to be like unboxing your book and trying to have a genuine moment with your accomplishment. But also there's a ringlight. And you're like, what's going to come? clip the best. Look excited, but also moved, but also grateful. Yep. And just kind of, but also angles. And it kind of ruins it, the need to turn everything into content. But it is important.

Well, there's so much to talk about here. I always like to start with ways in which maybe you and I can relate. One is you spoke for many years about your big head. Yeah. I have a massive melon. And that's why I love coming in here. And I and no, but this is some place where we can bond because my head stuns people. There's no other way you guys can bond.

This means a lot to me. Okay. Nothing about going into comedy. Okay. None of that comedy struggling with our mental health. Boring. Okay. We've got giant, giant craniums.

And I just, you know, and I'm, I think. I think you like hanging with me. If you do like hanging with me, the only reason would be because my head makes you feel good about your head. I love to be in a photo with you. I love to be in a photo with you for so many reasons. Childhood hero. Comedy legend. Do you guys want to hang out later because our heads are normal sized?

We have normal heads. Yeah. Let's hang out. No, it's this table segregated. No, I tell my friends to lean back when we take photos. I'm not kidding. I go, if we selfie, I go, I need you to lean back a little. Come on.

Just a little bit. It's not the most flag. Another area of intersection. You were not a class clown. I was not a class clown. There's an assumption that people like us, I was not a class clown because, and I think you can relate to this,

class clowns don't really care what the teacher thinks of them. And they don't care if they get in trouble. I was the exact opposite. So I was so interested in comedy. I love making my friends laugh. but to me that was something that was reserved for outside the classroom. Oh, yeah.

And I used to sell people like, no, class clowns end up being killed in a motel shootout. Like, that's what happens to class clowns. The guy that's going like, hey, I just set the clock back and hey, teacher, we're out of here. And they all have that accent. Hey, what's going on? Forget about it. It's so strange. You know, but if you go back, a lot of my comedy heroes, you investigate and, no, they were very quiet.

Yeah. So that was your story, right? Well, yes, but I'm surprised about you not being class clown because you are so on, seemingly, all the time. Yeah. You know, even if on is just, like, very friendly and personable, like, you never seem to, like, shut down and you never seem to make anyone walk on eggshells around you. You know what I mean?

Well, well, I'm sorry. Well, you know, seriously, what are you? You guys can weigh in, honestly. I'm going to let the normal heads talk. When I come in here, giving him fodder for a bit. Oh, okay. In that way, we walk on eggshells.

Well, I think because he's the teacher now, there's nothing to worry about. Yeah. Right. But he comes here, there will be no cameras pointed, no microphones, and he's just making everybody laugh. And you're right.

He can't turn it off. It's like a drug to you. I wasn't like that. I really did separate in my mind. When I was a kid, I was ambitious. I wanted to make something of myself. And so I wasn't that person in a classroom. Well, what about it like P.E?

Well, P.E., I got huge laughs unintentional. He was not allowed in Pee. I was like, I'll catch the sphere. Oh, oh, lack of day. I've aired. Yeah, I, yeah. I feel like you got pantsed a lot. Did you get pantsed?

I pants myself. I didn't get tall I was a late bloomer so I did not get tall till relatively late You can't pants someone wearing knickers Yeah You can tell they really walk on eggshells

That's what I'm saying Everyone seems very comfortable Yeah they are they are But I think what you were referencing Sona is that If you reveal some slight thing to me I'll never forget it

And I'll use it as a bit Yeah. And it's a little chilling. Yeah. Or if we wear a shirt and we're like, we're going to be bold and wear this shirt today. Like he'll zero in and make fun of us. You can't have any distinction when you can. No, yeah.

No, no, no. It's like a C-Rex. I see movement. I see movement and then I attack. I mean, that sounds like middle school. Yes, it is. If you wore anything, people were like, who do you think you are today? Yeah.

Another thing we share in common, you, the first time you got drunk was when you were 29. Yeah. And I was about to be 30. It was like pretty close to 30 also. I was earlier than that, but close. Like I did not, I mean, I mean, I was in my mid to 26. I just didn't drink at all. Yeah. For years and years and years and years and years and then out of college for a bunch of years. And the people I was around, like I'm my writing partner was Greg Daniels. His idea of a good Time is, you know, let's grill that broccoli a little. Have you drizzled olive oil on this? Just a little.

It's sea salt. It's thicker. I ran with this crowd. So we were like Mormons, predominantly Jewish Mormons. Yeah, I was in marching band in high school. I was in marching band in mock trial. Yeah. What did you play in marching band?

Clarinet and then trumpet. Wow. Yeah, stupid. I was bad. I faked my way through every show we did. I wanted the uniform. I did. I just wanted that wool, thick, unflif.

No, I did band from like fifth to eighth grade because I had to. My dad made me. And then all by the time you get to ninth grade, all your friends are in band. You're like, I guess I'm in band forever, unless I want to start over socially. And I'm not good. Yeah, I'm only funny quietly sometimes. So I can't go out there and try to make new friends. Right.

But, yeah, I don't know. I was going to ask you. you have a memoir yet? I've been asked to do it and I'm... Numbers not high enough for you? Nope, just waiting. Still holding out.

Just waiting for a couple of people to die. I've actually thought of calling my memoir, I waited till they died. That's really good, actually. Yeah. That's really good. There goes the last one. And here's the scoop.

No, I want, I, I, I do want to write down because I do have an insane, I have an insane show business story, which is all about my, how I got a show initially. It's one of the most improbable show business stories of all time. And people forget that. And I think younger people just think,

oh, that guy's been around forever. No, it was just a crazy story how I got into it. And so I will write it down. When you see people writing about your, career though? Because I feel like a lot of people have written about your career. Are you kind of like, just get, wait, I'm going to do it. Or are, do you ever read it? Do you ever? I don't read a lot of stuff about myself. Yeah. Do you? No, no, no, no. I mean, I don't. But I'm far less significant and talented. So I'm not sure. It might be different. Wrong and wrong. I'm not reading comments or nothing.

Wrong and wrong. Don't, that's just, uh, whatever. That's, uh, you're crazy. You're very humble. No, no, no, I'm, I'm being honest. There's no difference. There is nothing in me that's not in you. And there's you don't look at these things because they don't serve you. I really trust and love the people that I work with. And I know they're going to tell me when something's gone off the rails. But I don't go looking for it.

Oh, we should have done that by now. Not you. Not you. I'm talking about Adam Sachs. And my accountant. We live in a very, it's a strange moment we're in right now where we're trying to figure out the internet and mankind has been around for hundreds of thousands of years. And then in the last millisecond, we suddenly know what everyone thinks. And it's not even what they think.

It's what they're just putting out there. So you could read through all your comments and the nastiest comment about you would be by, someone who doesn't really care even that much, they just want to get likes on the comment. They want to get some traction. Yeah. And then if you met that person and said, did you write that about me? There's a really good chance to go like, no, I just, I mean, I really like your specials. Yeah. You know, so what's the point? Yeah. I also think after you put out enough things or do enough things publicly. You just learn that people will say the wrong thing to your face meaning well. So you're like, why would I go looking for mean comments when I can't even take a compliment

from a person who cares about me? Right. Like after, like after you host the Oscars, was there like specific compliments you want on your performance? Do you not care? Were there things people said that you like, hit you wrong? I really care, but it's just always so. And even when everything's overwhelmingly nice, the thing I hear a lot, I don't know if you've ever been around with me, Sona, when I get this, but I got it a lot for years was women would say to me, you're so much better looking in person. And I would just thought, started to think, am I a monster? Am I like an orc? You know, am I this goblin? But they really would act like that I really thought you were funny despite your face.

Okay. No, but you know what I mean? But that's how you take it. That's how you take it. Right. But that's what I would hear is I would think and people would say, how come you don't look this way on TV? And I got in my head about it for a while. But that's everyone, right?

Like everybody looks better in person. I think so. Yeah. I agree. But also it's the way I don't know if your brain works like his does, but you immediately go to like a negative idea. Yeah, I can take any. So if someone's like, today's show was great. Well, what about the other shows?

Yeah. That's a big thing he does. But on that comment. people do need to learn how to compliment without having the, there be a opposite version of it that you can read into because that is a weird thing to say. It's, you know, you realize you've put yourself out there in this very personal way, which is there are so many things I never cared about that much. I just didn't care. I think a lot about being a great athlete, people misunderstand. Yes, it's called physical talent. You need these physical abilities. But there's another part of it,

which I think is huge, which is you need to. How? care about where the ball is at any given moment. And I didn't. Like I was like, oh, I guess it's going over that way. Well, someone will get it. You know, uh-oh, it's coming my way. I'm supposed to do something. Like, well, okay, I don't think I have great physical skills, but I, with that attitude, I'm not going anywhere. But the thing I cared about more than anything else was being funny. And so that's where everything went. So is the meanest thing someone could say to you, you're not funny? Or is it not that because you know you are?

It took a long time. But I think more lately, it's been shockingly late in my career. But, you know, if someone said to me now, like, you're just not funny. I'd be like, well, enough people are that I seem to pay the rent. Right. You know, I would have more of that attitude. But I didn't, I wasn't able to do that one in 1993, 95. I'd be like, well, what do you think I could get better at?

Yeah. No, that's how I feel too. I'm just like, well, I have stuff. Like, I have evidence that some people think so. It's more subjective is how I feel about it. And then certain, but then I'll also, I'll spin positive comments negatively. Like something lately that I've been spinning negatively is when people say, you know, like the book or your special is like, oh, you're so honest. And I'm like, but did you laugh?

But was it good? Like, was it funny? Was it? Because to me, honest is like easy, but it's not easy for everybody, to be honest. It's not easy to share things about yourself and get deep and go deeper with people. And so it's taken me a while to kind of accept that as a compliment because my initial reaction is always like, oh, you're saying honest because you are trying to think of something nice to say, but you don't want to lie is how I initially took it. Isn't that interesting? We're horrible people.

You know, I mean, I'm taking stock of the silence right now as everybody agrees with me. Even as everyone's going, honest is a rough one to get. Like, I'm even over-analyzing the conversation I have about it. I'm going to read a quote from your book, which says, and what I love about your writing is you, you pack so much into like a paragraph. And this is from the opening of your book. In the last 10 years, I have rebooted my whole system countless times. I thought I would graduate college and become a teacher. I dropped out to pursue stand-up comedy.

I thought I'd get married. I called off an engagement. I thought I had anxiety that could be cured by the right exercise regimen and green smoothie recipe. I got diagnosed with bipolar too. I thought I would never come out as queer. I fell in love with a woman. I thought I could digest dairy. I cannot.

Everything you said here, the only thing that, angered me is that you cannot digest dairy. That angered you? It angered me. It angers me, too. I think you're not trying hard enough. And it's so upsetting because I look like I'm from Wisconsin. I have resting more cheese please face.

There are cheese companies that so want to put your face on the label. I did an ad for yogurt during COVID. Yes. I know. And during COVID, I had to do like a socials ask where they were like, you do have to take a bite of the yogurt. And I was like, that will mess me up. And they're like, well, it's Greek yogurt. So it's easier to digest. I go, you think I haven't tried every fucking yogurt? You think I haven't, I haven't turned every stone over to make sure.

I have, I truly have tried. And then once you stop having it, you're like, oh, this is the normal amount of diarrhea to have per year. It's supposed to be weird. It's supposed to get to the end of a day and be like, I had diarrhea. That was strange. Instead of get to the end of the day, it didn't happen. You go, whoa. What's in the air? When you're getting high fives because you didn't have diarrhea, there's an issue. There's an issue. And I just thought, well, that's what happens. You would get Hallmark cards on a diarrhea free day. There's so much there. I mean, what I love about that paragraph is that so much of your book is in the paragraph. You don't even have to finish the book.

That's what's great about the paragraph. I just said that paragraph. You don't have to buy the book. Yes, that's the whole book. It is, first of all, I did not know you said you got diagnosed with bipolar 2. What is bipolar 2? It's, I mean, it's just. As opposed to bipolar 1, I don't know.

Oh, I was like, I mean, it's a mental illness. Like, I was like, has Conan never heard of bipolar? Like, how deep do I got to go? I mean, the way I understand, the way it's going to explain to me is bipolar one is mania as opposed to hypomania. So you're going between depressive episodes and manic episodes, but mania is more intense where usually it requires like hospitalization or like you think you're speaking to God or people are following you or something like that. And hypomania is more like, you know, reckless decision making and behaviors and like all the increased energy and no sleep and all that. but it's not quite as severe. Right.

So I think it's just the less intense version of bipolar one. Hugh, all the comments being like, you explained that wrong. I get so scared to talk about anything that I'm not an expert on, which is everything except. How dare you? Yeah, anything except Gilmore Girls. I'm like, I misspoke.

But Gilmore Girls, you're confident. Excuse me, the gazebo was on. Elm Street and third. It's in the center of town, Conan. But yeah. I have this. Does this resonate with you? I actually talk to my daughter about it.

But I say I think a lot of growing up and getting older in a good way is you finally find your owner's manual. And it doesn't mean you don't have issues, but any great product, I mean you can just an amazing product comes with an owner's manual, and it's a lot of this can do, it can chop dice carrots at 3,000 revolutions a second. It does this amazing thing. You're flipping through it, and then you get to the page where it says, keep in mind, here are the issues. You need to clean the blade constantly. Because if it's the steel that we use, you need to do this, has a tendency to overheat, don't put it in sunlight,

you know, all those things. And I think that for me, and it sounds like it's the same thing for you, A lot of it was just, oh, here's what I'm really good at. Here's the stuff I have to watch out for and my tendencies. And I'm familiar with my owner's manual, just kind of how it feels to me. And it feels to me like you had so much success, which to me feels like very early in your life, but you have worked so hard. You've had a lot of success. But you also have a lot of stuff in your owner's manual that says, look, the Taylor Tomlinson is amazing.

and here are the things that you need to watch out for, needs sleep, can't have dairy, needs, you know, prone. You can mess up the system pretty easily. Yeah, prone to this, prone to that, and take care of those things. But it's an amazing product, but just here are the things that you need to be aware of. And I think if more people accept,

that's one of the things about getting older that I like. Yes. You know, getting old gets a bad rap, but I've been very pleasantly surprised. at how much happier I am when I know, oh, I know what I'm doing right now. Yeah. I'm doing the thing where I'm digging this hole even deeper when getting into a funk, you know, and you get a little distance on it.

Yeah, there's like an acceptance, I think, and I think your 20s or, or at least my 20s were just sort of untangling all the cords inside my brain and heart and going, okay, what am I working with here? and what are the things that I'm going to have to work on the rest of my life or keep an eye on the rest of my life? And it's something I think about a lot with dating, where, and I'm kind of talking about it on stage right now, is like, in my 30s now, I'm pretty, I could argue for or against me.

Like, I have a very accurate view of myself, and I have a lot of things I'm confident about, and a lot of things that I'm like, yeah, that'd be a deal breaker for me too if I was on the other side. And sometimes they're the same thing. Like, I love that I'm a stand-up comedian. I love that I'm so honest on stage. I love that I have turned, you know, personal things about my life into relatable content. I could also see why that would be not attractive to somebody. And I always thought that when I got to my 30s, I would be just like so confident and so like I'm amazing now. I've reached this peak of who I am. And actually,

it's just accepting your strengths and weaknesses and going, yeah, they coexist and that's fine. And the right people are going to love me and the wrong people won't. And it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. That felt too sincere. No, that's actually, that's really good. And then you had to ruin it. I'm sorry. Clip it right before I went. That was bullshit. I do have a question because we were talking about your Harvard commencement speech, which I listened to and it was great.

But I was surprised that you hadn't done that yet. That seems late. I know you did class day, which... I did a class day in 2000, which I really like. Long time ago to do class. They took 26 years. This is why I don't read comments. This is why I don't rate comments.

It's, I'm, this is me criticizing Harvard. I was looking, I was, I was, like, I just, I just thought that was so crazy to make you wait so long to do the commencement. Like, yeah. I was like, well, yeah, of course you got to have the obamas before Conan. I get that. But like, they had Tom Hanks before you. He didn't go there. And they had Sasha and Malia before.

Yeah. They had the Unabomber before me. Ted Kaczynski has done it twice. Was any part of you like, guys, I went here? What's taking so long? To be fair to them, okay, did the class day, and I guess that went really well. And I thought, so a lot of time has to go because you can't. What's class day?

Class day was like. Is that the audition for commencement? No, but class day is the speech where you're sort of, it can be more comedic, you know. And, you know, there's, I think it's a student. It's more about the kids. So they had me do that. Okay. And then I did something for them during the pandemic.

During COVID, they did something online for them because they said the kids are all bummed. They have to leave. They're having their virtual graduation. So I did that. Yeah. And then some more time went by and they thought, let's get that old fool back. Yeah. Because I saw that come up and I go, how many times has Conan done the Harvard commencement?

surely it's been three or four by now. It's a big, I mean, I can understand why should it wait and why. I'm putting you in a terrible position. No, no, no, no. I understand why they do it because you get like this. It's a real, it's a real honor to get to do that. You just see like such an obvious choice for that, though, for such a long time. He did Dartmouth.

And so I do wonder if, if like, having done Dartmouth's, like, they were like, well, we were going to ask him, but now we're going to wait. Well, he should have done it before Dartmouth. That's how I was feeling. Did you go to Dartmouth? No. No, no, no. Dartmouth.

I did research. I was really, I was pissed for you. I didn't think we'd be having this conversation. Hey, Howard Thomas is going on. We're going to probably talk about the history of my commencement speeches. I'm like, how was it doing that overdue honor? So I'm taking shots. I didn't finish school.

I don't care. I don't care what Harvard thinks of me. Conan, you have so much better in person on the podcast. And why did you? make you wait. Listen, I am a poster boy for good fortune and just happy it all went my way, but you're right. They made me way too long. Let's get back to you.

Let's get back to you because there's one other thing I want to bring up that you talk about that I totally agree with, which is birthdays as an adult. And how you're just totally against the idea of adults making a big fuss about their birthday. Are you a big birthday person? Huge. Really? Birthday month. Birth month. birth month and it's coming up.

And we all have to do her bidding when it's her birth month. It goes on forever. People, you know, I am no spring chicken and my sometimes friends will say to me like, your birthday's coming up. What are you going to do? I'm like, get closer to the grave, I guess. But I feel, I'm not going to put on a paper hat. Like, to me, it's just at the most, if I can have dinner with my wife and a glass of wine

and a good pizza, I'm happy. Yeah. I try to work on my birthday, so I forget that it's happening. Now, with the other perspective is Sonoma Sessian. Here's my thought about it. It is an excuse to see people. So it's not even like, buy me dinner. It's let's go to dinner because there's like, I don't even have to mention it's birth

month, but I'm celebrating for myself with all of my friends. They should know it's birthday. But you're a bit of a tyrant about it. I'm not a tyrant. I'm not a tyrant. I'm not a tyrant. I do, on the 1st of October, my birthday is on the 13th. I do text my friends and I'm like, birth month, everyone, what are we doing?

And I honestly, I would like the heads up. I think if you do care a lot about your birthday, you do need to give your friends a heads up like that. I think that's very considerate. But I don't expect them to pay for dinner. It's not like I'm just expecting all this free stuff. I just want to see people that I haven't seen all year. And it's a good excuse to see people. And you're giving people the month to make plans with you.

I think, actually, that makes a lot of sense of me. I thought it was like, and someone has this big blowout. And it's always Wednesday at noon. And right in the middle of the week when no one can come. And she says, if you don't come, you hate me. And I'll docks you online. Like, that's what I was picturing during the tyrant speech. No, no.

But that seems okay. That's how you represent. Here at our little company in our building, we've started to group birthdays. So there's not a cake for each person. E.B. Waits. And it's usually about two and sometimes three people when their birthdays are all within about two weeks of each other. Then there's one cake.

And that makes singing the song complicated. Because I don't know whose name we're saying. Sometimes I don't know the name at all. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. Like, I'm supposed to know that person. Happy birthday, valued employee. Happy birthday.

Random blood bag. Happy birthday to you. That never goes over well. Well, I'm sorry. Oh, it's Blay. That's his name. Blay. Hi.

I'm sorry I called you random blood bag earlier. You talk a lot. It was huge impact on your life about your mom passing away. How old were you when she passed? I was eight. You were eight. And you say that after your mom died, you immediately started preparing for your mom.

own death. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I think afterward, and I didn't really put it together until I was a little older, but apparently it's a very common fear when someone has a parent and die young. They assume they're going to die at that same age or they're going to die very young as well. And so I had that fear, I mean, up until very recently and kind of still rears its ugly head because I'm not 34 yet, which is when she passed. And so, yeah, it is just this weird thing you live with. And when I started writing the book, I mean, I pitched the book as like, oh, it's going to be personal essays about all the things I've changed my mind about, because that's literally everything. You can write about anything. So when I started writing the book, the way I did it

is I just had Scrivener open and I just made different chapters and titled them by like subject. And then I just wrote kind of everything that was significant about that subject. And I was like, what do people need to know about me to contextualize these other things I changed my mind about? And I kind of worked backwards. And I was like, oh, the two biggest things from my childhood that you need to know are like I grew up really religious. But first and foremost, and it's why I start the book with it, is that my mother died very young. And that I realized has had such a ripple effect throughout the rest of my life and who I've become and the decisions I've done. made and the opinions I had and the way I approached big life decisions and the things I thought

I had to do. And for better or worse, right? Like I talk about pretty early on in the book, I think, about how my mom was like a really great writer and I have some of her writing in the book because she kept journals her whole life and it was like this way of publishing her and it was so cool to have editors be like, wow, your mom was this amazing writer. That's so wonderful. And I just feel like I have scraps of not just her, but my dad's talent as well as like a performer. And neither of them became performers or writers. They became parents. And not that you can't be both, but that was their path.

And my dad taught and my mom was a stay-at-home mom. And so I have spent my whole life sort of feeling like, okay, I have to make the most of the scraps of these gifts that these two very talented people have. and I think I've stretched them pretty far. I think I've done a lot with a little bit. But it really is, like, even down to, like, I talk about calling off an engagement in the book and realizing through that process, like, oh, I wanted to get married for reasons other than,

oh, I really love this person. Like, I was trying to get married really fast because I wanted my mom's side of the family to know that I was still, like, maybe I didn't necessarily wasn't the perfect Christian or anything, but look, I'm married, and I'm doing that correctly. And my parents got married young. And so I feel like I should get married young. And like all these different things that all of it can be traced back to losing her or growing up, idolizing her and wanting to be more like her or feeling insecure about

the fact that I wasn't like her because my mom was such a charismatic, sparkly, like beautiful woman and it's just, like, I don't look like her. Like, I really don't have, I don't have that magical quality that she had. And so I feel that it's just such a waste that she's not here anymore that if I have any bit of it, I'm like, why have to, I was watching David Sedaris on Anderson Cooper's podcast and he was talking about how he, in writing about his mother, because they were talking about how his mother died, that he felt like it was his job to make the world love his mother as much as he loved her, and that he felt like she deserved the world love. And that's really how I feel about putting my mom in the book. And the cover, you were asking about it

when we sat down and I gave you it. It's great photo. The photo is actually a recreation of, if you look at the dedication, it's a photo that I talk about in the book of my mom sitting in the airport, and it's on the dedication page because I dedicate the book to her. And so from like the very beginning of the process, I was like, oh, well, I would love it. if the cover was a recreation of that photo. And so that was like my initial idea. And we went through a lot of different versions of the cover. Wow, look.

But that's what I... So that's your mom. That's my mom, yeah. Wow. It was just, yeah, she looks like great. I think she was going on like a speech and debate competition tournament in college. Like, she's much younger than me. I know.

She's much younger than me, but... Cool people do speech. And then the cover is also like we had an amazing photographer, uh, Selo Schillone. But this photo specifically, they got picked. is a Polaroid my sibling took at the shoot. Oh, wow. Yes. Isn't that crazy?

So it's like really kind of amazing how it all came together. I went on such a long tangent. No, no, no. Do you talk about... We'll edit that. We'll tighten that up. No, we're not tighten anything on. We'll tighten that up in post.

We can't afford that. We're going to lose it. We desperately want to edit you, but we're going to loop it. We're going to add longer pauses. We're going to put some air in there. Yeah. We're going to add some sniffles. Some coyote sounds here and there.

We're going to add a few, who still going. In the background? Yeah, just muttering, Matt, what time is it? I'm just going to hear Sona go, my birthday month is coming out. It is. It is.

You're right. September. You talk about how you kind of feel like you're performing for, not just your mom, but your dad too. Like you're, which, you know, my parents. parents passed away about a year and a half ago, but I remembered before they died, I remembered thinking, well, I still do comedy after my parents are gone because that's kind of the only

reason. There's a very primal reason you do it, which is you're in your high chair. My mom said I got a big laugh like in my high chair and my mom laughed really hard and her brother, my uncle said, don't laugh. He'll think he's a comedian. And that was like in whatever, 1964, 65. That's amazing. Real good energy, by the way. Don't laugh at him. He'll think he's something.

He'll believe. Explains so much. I know. But you get that. I do think at the end of the day, we're still, I don't care, you could be 95 years old. You're still trying to impress your parents. Yeah. It's true.

Yeah. And, I mean, I talk a lot about my siblings in the book. And I have three younger siblings. And I'm really trying to impress them all the time. And younger siblings are, I mean, We're all very, very close, but they're so great because they really support me, believe in me, are excited for me, and they also know me so well that they can roll their eyes at me at the right moments, too, and be like, you're being a lot. Like, come on, you are. You are a lot.

And I am a lot. And also they can go, hey, slow down and enjoy this because this is cool. So I think they keep me very grounded in a way that is just like I'm so grateful for it because I think it's so special. So yeah, I keep thinking of other questions I want to ask you, but they're nothing to do with my book and my publishers will be mad if I'm just like, so Toy Story 5. Why did they wait so long to ask you? Why not first Toy Story or Toy Story 2 or 3? And that is bullshit. As a matter of fact, no, I actually do have questions about that because Toy Story is very important to me.

I love Toy Story. Cool. Okay. And I, so when they asked you to do it, was it like no brainer? Of course you're going to do that? Or were you like, let me look at my schedule. Like, are you kidding? Well, they came to this building and I, and. They came in person. They came in. Yes. All the toys. What do you and Buzz came. They went and they went up to my office, which is not big. It's just. It's just. You would never. But we, they said, they came up, and they went up to my office, which is not big. It's just, we're sort of in like a kind of a house here. We get it. You're a man of the people, Conan. It's a small, it's a small office. It's a very small.

And I was just happy to be asked to do the commencement. I had a little candle and I took them up the staircase and there's a mouse at the top of the stairs. I gave me a little piece of cheese. So we went in my office and they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they. laid out what the story was and it's Toy Story 5 and here's your part. And then at the end they went, so what do you think? And I went, what do you mean? What do I think?

It's Toy Story. I like that they properly pitched you. No, they pitched me, but I thought you don't need to pitch me. You just have to say, you know, you play a urinal cake in Toy Story 5. And I'll be like, yes, okay. It's just yes and. But, yeah, it was a big part. I mean, it was bigger than I thought.

Yeah. It was not a cameo. It was a role. Yeah, it was really fun to do. Come on, roll. Come on, guys. No, sorry, that was dumb. That was dumb.

That was dumb. Cut it. Nope. Cut it, please. Nope. Nope. Loop it. Loop it. Loop it.

Move it up front. We're going to open with that. So, Taylor, congratulations on the book. Yeah, yeah. What are you, toy story? I roll, a roll, a roll, a roll, a roll. Get it? A roll, a roll, a roll, a roll.

Wiko, wika, wika. A roll, a roll, a roll. Wika, weeka, weeka. That's my rap sound. Have you been happy with the reception to your character? I listened to the, I listened to the, I listened to the, I listen to the, I listen To the jokey one where you're like, and it's about this and I should get a cut of the merch and I know you're doing a bit. But like genuinely, people seem real happy.

Mostly I just love it when kids are happy. Kids were laughing a lot. So I think if you can make a kid laugh, that's still, I mean, I know that there are a lot of humorists and people with a satirists. And I think I'm a clown. If I can make a kid laugh, that is my biggest joy. My daughter loved it. And I forgot to tell you this, you know, when she came in. when we did our summer spouses thing and we left.

I said, well, what did you think? Did you like that place? What about my boss? And she goes, does that man live there? My boys are just discovering that you're funny and they're just like, he's funny. And I'm like, yeah, he made a whole career out of it. But they don't know that, you know, to them, you're just the voice of smarty pants. Yeah, it was fun.

It was fun because when I went to, when I saw it for the first time, and, And it was an insane experience because they invited us all to this premiere. And then Taylor Swift, is it the premiere? And suddenly I'm chatting with her and getting my picture taken. And I'm like, Taylor Swift, this is crazy because I didn't realize she was going to be there. And then I'm watching it with your boys. And the only time I became enraged is when they both said they, they separately needed to use the bathroom at different times, minutes apart. We were in the middle of the aisle.

I walked in front of Conan and Tim Allen to take him to the bathroom and then I come back in the other one a few minutes later is like I have to go to the bathroom I'm like son of a bitch during your part of the movie during the whole movie there was just like the movie was happening

and they just both needed to go at different times I thought you were going to say it was during your scenes Oh I'm sure they missed some of it probably was They missed some prime colon Yeah it was because they had the you know and Tim Allen was furious He had a stick and he was trying to hit them

Remember? Hoping at them yeah Yeah. He walks around with a giant stick and swings at kids. And it's not a cane. He's not holding himself up. It's a weapon. It's a stick. It in no way aids his mobility. Specifically for poking kids. That's his kid poking stick. All right. We're going to have to wrap this up because we've gone to epic lengths here today. And I'll tell you why. I'm so sorry.

Because, yeah, sorry. That's the right. Because you are, you are an absolute delight. You really are. You know that. And I am, you know, I say this sometimes to much younger performers like yourself. And I just say, I'm really proud of you because you are such a good person and you've been dealt a lot and you've handled it beautifully. And you've written this beautiful book. And I'm just delighted to know you, Taylor, seriously. That's really nice. Thank you.

And just keep, you know, mom, dad, they are proud of you. You've done an amazing, amazing job. and just keep doing what you're doing and take care of yourself. That's so nice. Thank you. And I have been dealt a lot. And one of the things I have been dealt, as we've talked about before, is when I went on tour with you, you made me choose between two American girl dolls. Yeah, I did. And told me the other would be melted down.

Yeah. I said it would be killed. You said it would be killed. And you didn't kill it. And that was nice. But that was pretty formative for me because I was an up-and-coming comic again. You're one of my comedy heroes. I'm being put on the spot.

And, you know, I don't. We were on a giant tour bus. In Chicago? In Chicago, yeah. And we pulled over, I know we talked about this once before, but pulled over and we got these two American girls. Because you said you never got one. I never got one. And then I made you choose and then you dangled them in front of me.

I said the other one would be killed. You did a Sophie's choice. And I didn't. I didn't have American girl money back then. But I'm doing pretty well now, Conan. Okay. So, what? I thought that maybe today we'd make you choose an American girl doll.

Oh. And what happens to the one I don't choose? Wouldn't you like to know? Well, I would already choose this one. It's Sona when she was eight. Oh, my God, it was. That doesn't seem like the right. Will she stand on her own?

Somehow more me than you. I love this. You can get acquainted. And I brought you their books. Because I know you haven't read them. I love how there's a backstory to these. Yes. There's a series of books.

Okay, this is... These are the first of Kirsten and Molly. This is Molly. This is Kirsten. And these are OG ones. Yes, these are OG ones. These are OG American Girl. I remember these.

Yes. Yeah, I remember, I very vividly remember Molly. Yes, me too. Molly was... Just this tableau right now is just disturbing. Which will I choose? And we had to assemble... I mean, they came like...

Molly didn't... to have her glasses on when they came in the box. Oh, man. And the way my sibling and I freaked out when we thought she came without glasses, they were in a little case. We opened it. We go, what?

Well, we can't take her in without her glasses. We were furious, but then we found it, and it's okay. Oh, thank God. What's it going to be. You got on the phone, and it was recorded, and you were screaming profanity. An American girl call center. What the fuck?

So this is the first book is Meet Kirsten. Okay. And she just made a dangerous journey on a small ship from Sweden in 1854 to make a new life in America. And so that's her. And you will never forget it was 1854 because she comes with a little thing. Her accessories she comes with were a bonnet, this little 1854 thing and a wooden spoon, which I thought was strange. wooden spoon. Yeah, because she's not, she's carrying flowers on the front of the book.

Wow, what a journey you took. It was incredible. We thought that was an interesting choice. And then Molly, yes. When was Molly? Molly is, what's very funny about the back of Molly's book, we're reading it today, is, and it's on the website as well, is it's in 1944 and the world is at war. Oh, yes.

Molly's my girl. And the first half is about how terrible it is. And then it's about Molly's homemade Halloween coffee. is a huge success until her pesky little brother plays a mean trick. And you're like, wow, they really went from the world is at war to Molly's costume needs to be done. Where is she living while the world is at war? That would be an important detail. American girl.

I mean, yeah. So American girl. Yeah. Not in the tunnels of the blitz. It doesn't say it on the back. I should have looked that up. I do have it somewhere. Well, she's got it.

I mean, she's living a good life. She's not living in Berlin. You can tell. I know. She's a privilege. She's not. She reeks of privilege. No, I don't think.

She does. I think she's more, she's more normal. I don't know why I'm defending. No, those words were done by a servant. Okay. I have my answer. You already know? Yeah.

Oh, this is what made me like Molly. She's not very good at math. Yeah. My God, this is me. Dislikes turnips and is afraid to swim underwater. Okay. So that's Molly for you. Guess what?

This is a really tough choice. Can we all guess who you're going to choose? Yes, I would love to know. He's choosing Molly. Because then you're going to be a contrarian. No, he's thinking he relates to Kirsten. Yeah, but she's a World War II baby. Can I say something?

It's so clear. Listen, you've had a long journey and you've got a wooden spoon, but that's not a fun, you know, toy. You know what I mean? It's just not. No, it's not. It's not. I have a wooden spoon.

I don't care. Her description is like she's burdened by helping her mother. And where does she come from? Sweden. You come from Sweden. Why did you leave Sweden? I know. You guys make just incredible stuff.

You've got a beautiful country. You get to bike anywhere you want. Why is he talking to it? It's unbelievable. You got picky. I've got to get out of this shit hole and go to America with my spoon. You fucked up. I would have picked Molly too

Yeah, she's got glasses I love an accessory She's got this is great And look her purse A very smart little purse You can keep things in there She's just the right age to be the bad seat too Yeah exactly

Well they're all nine Okay They all start nine Yeah looked it up They're born nine They're born They're born I win

I win Yay I lied I'm actually This is fantastic Born in San Francisco She's going to... What's that?

I lied. I was born in San Francisco in 1984. To some Republican peace. Oh, my God. Look at that. That's so cute. I have the boxes, too, if anyone wants to put them in a box and take him to a kid. Well, no.

I'm not giving this to a kid. It's 2026. I don't know a child. I've only got two daughters. Yeah, come on. Yeah. No, I'm sorry. Molly lives here for the rest of her.

days. She's got to be in the studio. She's got to be in the studio in the corner. Hereditary style. Whoever I'm talking to, she's way back here. She scuttles along the ceiling. It is hereditary. She scuttles on the ceiling. Once per episode, she just goes along with that. Oh, I'll also just be talking to someone and having a really

intense conversation and then just comes up in the background. Can she do the rapid up motion with her hand? Yeah, yeah. It's odd. You know what? Thank you. And what's the name? Do you still have your doll?

Did you shred it? Okay, good. Did I shred it? She had an American girl. Did I shred it? She had an American girl shredder. They make those. I did.

I said, oh my God, thank you so much Conan. And then they took the cameras down and I went, all right. Well, one of my favorite, was that good for you too? One of my favorite remotes that I ever did that people talk to me about all the time is American Girl doll store. where I got drunk on white wine and my doll

turned out to be this insane fascist. Yeah. And I swear to God, I look at that and I know that I really am talking to the doll. I know. I'm not even doing a bit

at that moment when things got weird, I really, the doll would took over. And I don't know what else to say. It was real. All right. Actually, never mind.

Amazing. Taylor Tomlinson, incredible. Please come back soon. Come see us anytime. And I'm really happy for you. Thank you for having me back. This was so nice of you to have me back on for this, really. We like it. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian and Matt Goreley. Produced by me, Matt Goreley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leow. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away.

Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brick Con. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan?

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