Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - The Professional Patient

Episode Date: December 9, 2021

Conan talks to Katie from Virginia about her work as a standardized patient and to test his reaction to receiving bad medical news. Wanna get a chance to talk to Conan? Submit here: TeamCoco.com/CallConan

Konan O'Brien needs a fan. Want to talk to Konan? Visit teamcoco.com slash call Konan. Okay, let's get started. Hi, Katie. Meet Konan. Hi, Konan. Hey, Katie.

How are you? Hi. I'm great. It's so nice to see you, Katie. It's nice to see you as well. You know, first of all, you have a lovely aura about you. You seem very friendly and filled with energy and goodwill. Oh, well, thank you.

I hope that is actually the case. Yeah. It's either that or the fact that I just had a lot to drink and took some pills. Wheeze. Yeah, yeah. So it's one of those two things. It's either you or it's me. It could be both.

It could be both. Yeah, both can be true. Where are you calling from, Katie? McLean, Virginia, right outside of Washington, D.C. Very cool. Very cool. Tell us a little bit about yourself. So, yeah, I live in McLean right now.

Originally from St. Louis, Missouri, but spent some time like overseas for a little while and I am a standardized patient. So that's kind of my... Wait, tell me what a standard... I don't know. I do not know what a standardized patient is. Yeah. So a standardized patient is like a, is a person, typically an actor that is paid to

portray patients with various illnesses for medical schools. Whoa. Wait a minute. Yeah. Your job is to go into a medical school and present symptoms and then they have to try and guess what it is and that way they can practice diagnosing. Correct. Exactly.

So we're training the future doctors of America, essentially. Wait a minute. This is, I didn't, first of all, I didn't know this existed. Second, this is fascinating to me because you have to have this incredible, first of all, abilities as an actor, but also you need to really know the disease you're pretending to have. Yeah. We get trained on it.

So they, some of the trainings are really hardcore and some are more like, you know, this thing, do it. So it just depends on... Are you allowed like on Halloween or April Fool's to go in with symptoms that you have like an alien in your belly, like a senior nurse or something? I have an alien for my belly, so I could do that. But for my Halloween costume, I actually did this year, I put an alien in my shirt. That's a different story, but...

But I have, this is absolutely stunning, you are trained to go in to a medical school and you have to really commit to having this illness and you have to know that... So I'm guessing you go in for some mild things and say, pretty much present the symptoms of eczema, but you also go in and you have like a brain tumor. Is that right? Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

I've done all of the above. Yeah, to present like cellulitis, so your foot is all swollen and red. Oh, you do prosthetics as well. Oh my God. We have, yeah. I've had fake wounds. This is fantastic. I mean, this is...

I'm fascinated by this and so you go in, you really commit, do you ever do anything really obvious like put an arrow, like a fake arrow through your head and say, I'm getting these... I was in an archery range and now I'm having pain in my head just so that, you know, just sort of give them an easy pass one day. I've got this pain in my head. Might be the arrow. Oh! A plus is for everybody.

Boom, boom, boom. You get an A plus. You get an A plus. Depending on the year of the student, we make them easier or harder. So, you know, if it's a student's first encounter with a standardized patient, we're going to give them an easier time. So it might be something like, you know, your affect is like a 10 out of 10 on the pain scale and you're just like, ah, my head hurts so bad or something like that.

So they can immediately go to, oh, okay, we're going to go in this. But sometimes it's on the lighter end and it's more nuanced. Well, how far did they take it? What I'm saying is, let's say you're presenting really bad symptoms. Do they... Do you ever take it to the point where they have to give you bad news? Oh, yes, yes. We do a lot of those.

In fact, those are some of the best ones to do because they're pure acting. It's not like, oh, my stomach hurts. It's more of, you know, we brought you in here today to tell you that you have cancer. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. It's like even heavier stuff sometimes. So then they have to deal with... What's heavier than that?

You're right. What is heavier than that? Not much. It could be the cancer or death of a loved one or something like that. But the ones that we do the most are the... We've called them Breaking Bad News and that's where they bring you in and we're trained to portray a certain type of emotion when they tell us this. Man, this just blows me away.

So they tell you, is your name Katie in these scenarios or do you have to use a different name? I typically use a different name because it can be like a case name. So like I'm playing like Colleen Cumberland. Right. Sure. Yeah, your name is, I love that your name is Katie Colligan, but you only play a Colleen Colligan.

The thing is, they've got to be Irish and the diagnosis is always the same. You had way too much to drink as a child. So my question is, okay, you really commit as an actor then to them telling you, me saying, hey Colleen, we have really bad news for you. This is a kind of cancer that spreads quickly and you've probably got six weeks. And do you cry? Do you get, wow, this is to help them train to deal with this situation? Right.

Yeah. So we're often trained to be as authentic as possible. So if the student isn't very good at delivering the bad news, we might react a different way than if they were fantastic at it. So I find that on those days that I have to portray those cases, these are 90 minute encounters with the students where it's a lot of time and energy and emotion. And I will absolutely get to the point of tears sobbing. Sometimes people yell, scream.

It just depends on what they're feeling that day. I didn't know this existed. It makes perfect sense that it does, but this is mind blowing. Yeah. Did you have to audition for this? Yes. Like an actor would for a role? Yes.

Yeah. So basically the way that you get into this is, and you don't have to be an actor to do it, some people are not actors and there's quite good at it, but you have to go in and they essentially have a standardized patient who's been doing it for years audition you in a room. They're the med student. You're the, you know, the SP. You learn a case, pretty easy one.

And then you have to portray that case. So let's say it's appendicitis or something like that. You have to have the certain level of affect, memorize this information to regurgitate back. Yeah. I have a question. Do you ever see that the student is struggling and you want to help them out? So you, you, you cheat a little bit and go, uh, pancreas, uh, feels, uh, pancreas, um, feels, uh, blocked near the duct, the, the ulterior duct.

And then they're like, it's an ulterior duct blockage of the pancreas, A plus. That's what, that's what I would be, that's what I would be doing. I would constantly be feeling like I got to help these people out, uh, right, right cerebellum feels like it is over articulated with blood, uh, just a guest on my part. You'd know better doc, but that's what's written on my hand. Let's get out of here. If it gets, you often feel that way, we do, but we're not allowed to, uh, this is incredible. I'm amazed by this.

I want to try, can we do something that's not so heavy, but let's try Conan out. So you have a doctor and you're going to, you're going to give him some news and let's see how. Oh wait. So I'm, wait, am I, am I the patient? Okay. All right. Yeah.

She's going to audition you and see if you can handle it. Katie, uh, I'm, I'm the patient and my name is, uh, uh, Patrick, I'm just going along with here, clear bias towards the average. I'm Patrick, oh, Shanahan, I'm a spot welder and I'm here and I've, should I give you my, tell me what my symptoms are? Um, well, yeah, I would come in and say, all right, take us through it. Dr. Colligan. Uh, knock, knock.

Hey, hello. How are you? Uh, Patrick, is, is that the, do I have the right person? Patrick? Yes. Yes. Oh, you're a good doctor. You know the name of the person you're talking to.

It's very important to do that. Yeah. So I heard that you are in here for some, some concerns. What is it that brings you in today, Patrick? Oh, I gotta tell you, I'm having this problem. Uh, it's, uh, it's, it's me leg, me right leg, me right leg has a tingling sensation. I have a little, well peripheral neuropathy on the right side of the foot. That's an old, that's what my mother used to call it in the old country, peripheral

neuropathy. And, uh, I get a tingling feeling there. I've lost some sensation in me right leg and, uh, I, uh, I sometimes it comes and goes, but, uh, it seems to be affected more by my diet. Ah. Okay. Can you tell me about your diet, Patrick? I eat a lot of sugar in rich foods.

Oh. Lots of sugar. I have, I start off every day eating a chocolate bunny rabbit and then, uh, and then I follow that up with some maple syrup and, uh, then I have myself a wedding cake, five tears, and I even eat the bride and groom that are made of icing on the top. And then, uh, I drink, uh, seven liters of Coca-Cola to chase it down. Yeah. That's a, that's a, that's a normal breakfast for me.

I'm just a janitor here, but I think he's got diabetes. Yeah. Yeah. I think he does. Why is the fucking janitor in here? Piping up. What the fuck out of here? Sorry.

You goddamn janitor. Sorry. That's not what I'm paying for. Sorry. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. Uh, Patrick, uh, diabetes, diabetes says, what we think is going on, um, has anyone ever told you you've had type two diabetes perhaps?

You know, I've had it, I've seen 35 other doctors and they've all said type two diabetes. Hmm. And they've taken blood tests and said, yes, type two diabetes, but I always thought they were full of shite. So I just walked out on them and came to see you. We're so glad you're here, Patrick. And we are going to tell you the same thing. Oh, now I'm going to be very upset and I have to test your skills of handling someone who's

upset. Oh, I'm so upset to have type two diabetes, there's no cure, there's nothing I can do. You know what? Actually, Patrick, there is something that we can do. We can work with you for diet, lifestyle, exercise, there's even some medications we can get you on. Wait, are you saying I might have to do a little bit of exercise and eat a little bit less sugar?

I think we could work with someone to. Then I'll fucking kill myself. I'd rather die than do. I'm sorry. I'm channeling my people because that's how we feel, that's how we feel about any lifestyle choice. Hey, you could live a perfectly great life if you would slightly alter your diet, lose a little bit of weight and maybe take a walk occasionally.

They get a gun and blow their brains out. This is fascinating. I'm so impressed and tell me about your life very quickly. Anything going on with you? Yeah, I'm 37 weeks pregnant right now and I just have to say, Matt, congratulations on your little one. Congratulations to you. Guess what, Matt?

Don't be fooled. You're just pretending to be 37. Wait, yeah, can you see some of your symptoms? Yeah, that's the problem, Katie. That's the problem with you. Oh my God. There's a belly. She just showed us.

I think you just, that's the problem is that I don't think, I don't believe anything she says medically. I mean, that's the problem is that I bet you came home and told your partner like, yeah, you know, I'm pregnant. He's like, yeah, right, whatever, leave your work at home, leave your work at work, don't bring it home. I love that. I have a question.

I do like to mess with him. Yeah, yeah. Do you ever, because you're probably so well-versed in medical symptoms at this point, like get a minor symptom and you're like, oh great, now I have lupus. Yeah. Yeah. You have an internet in your head at all times. Yeah.

It's true. I actually have learned a lot about the medical system and I think when we first start as SPs, we definitely get in that like, that WebMD mode, but over time you actually get to know enough where you're like, oh, you know, actually, no, this is, you're fine. This is what this is. This is what that is. And it's like, oh, if it's this, we need to go to the hospital right now. So I feel like more educated.

So you test the doctors pretty much exclusively on being able to determine what your disease is from the symptoms. Is that the limit of what you do? I mean, that's a lot. Oh no. We do a lot more than that because it's a lot about bedside manner, communication skills. So are they able to take feedback and learn from that? Can they be directed essentially?

So it's everything you name it. I have a question. Do you ever test their professionalism like start to come on to a medical student to see if they behave properly? Right after the cancer diagnosis. Yeah. Exactly. That's the time.

I have definitely tested their professionalism. Some cases are built like that where you actually keep kind of poking to try to get more information about them that they're able to kind of open up to you and they have to deal with the ethics of that. Okay. But you've never said anything like, hey, you're super hot. After my MRI, let's go get a drink. And then if they say, sounds good to me, you can say you flunked.

That kind of thing. No, I haven't done that, but I can actually tell you, I do know people that have done that. Wow. Yeah. Not flunking them. Mind you, not flunking them. But they've actually been like, this guy's cute.

I'm going to find him and I'm going to ask him out. After the session? After the session. Yeah. And it wasn't a test. They were really interested. They were really interested. This wasn't a test.

Yeah. Oh my God. Is that amazing? I know. Is that how you met your husband? Yeah. It is not. Sadly.

No, no. I met him through college. But you know, there were times before. Were you really at the college when you met your husband or were you pretending to go to college? Yeah. What's real, Katie? I don't know, Katie.

I don't know. I don't know. And Katie, your name is Katie Colligan, which sounds like you're spreading someone who spread typhoid in the 18th century. You know? Yeah. You don't seem like it. Mary.

I think this is all made up. I think everything about you. You spend so much of your life faking things that you don't even know what's real anymore. That wall behind you is just going to fall down. No, I've been around for a long time. I would say 800 years. That sounds about right. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Keeping it tight. So, Katie, is there anything, I'm very impressed by you, Katie, by the way. No, I really am. I sincerely am. It's this is very cool and you're very intelligent and poised. And I think it's very amazing what you do. Is there any way I can help you?

Is there a question I can answer for you? You're the one with all the knowledge. I don't know why you'd ask me anything, but I'll give it a crack. Okay. So, I do have a question for you. And I know we just did a bit of our own encounter, but if you had the opportunity to legitimately go in and be a standardized patient for a day, Conan, what character and ailment would you like to portray to help educate the future doctors of America?

Oh, that's a good question. I think I would love to play someone with a mental illness, meaning that I have lots of different personalities, something that really, because Matt will tell you that may actually be true. I was hoping you'd say that, so I didn't have to. But I think I might want to go in. It would give me also a little more fun if I could go in and jump between different people and they had to figure out exactly what my mental condition was.

I think that would be more fun for me than pretending to have diarrhea. I think I'd rather go in and have something that as an actor, I could really put my teeth into. And to me, that would be multiple personalities, paranoia, sudden bouts of insane grandiosity followed by me collapsing into utter despair and sobbing, something that would get me an Oscar. That's what I would want to do. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. I think you'd be actually really good at that. And is there a name for that besides being an actor in Hollywood? What is that? I think that is the title of the case, actually. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. I just described most of the people that I interview and work professionally. So you can just channel all of them, put it into one encounter and really scare the students. But you know, they need to see. You know what? You should bring me in. I would do that, by the way.

Okay. If you want to bring me in sometimes and I'll just put on a mustache and just act like a raving lunatic and you could give me a couple of tips on that leads them to a certain kind of, oh, he's got, you know, this is a complete psychotic break or, you know, whatever the medical, you know, truth is, you could help me get there. But I would do that. I would say that. I like that a lot.

I think we would love to have you. And I also think that you could just do one that's yourself and you're trying to get the doctor to give you something because you're a celebrity. Oh, that's great. And I've done that with real doctors where, you know, I can tell they're kind of a fan and I'm just say like, Hey, look, you know, maybe you got some good, maybe you got some good pills or something. And I really push them on it to try and just, you know, score, score some sweet, sweet pills.

And it often works. I often, and then I resell them. I don't know. I resell half and I resell the rest out of my trunk. Makes sense. Hey, Katie, before we wrap up, I hear that you had a really interesting reveal for the sex of your baby. Is that right?

This is correct. Yes. So we found out that I was pregnant back in the spring and my husband, Derek, had a great idea. It was my favorite idea at the beginning of pregnancy. He said, what if instead of doing a normal gender reveal, we got Kenny G to announce the gender of our baby and I was like, done. Yep.

So we got him on cameo because Kenny G's a boss on cameo. Turns out I'm a huge fan. What's he pulling down on cameo for a session? If you don't mind saying. If he plays a sax, sure. It's, I think with his saxophone solo, which was important to the reveal, it was about 350. Okay.

That feels about right. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. $350. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm doing the mental math in my head.

I'm afraid to ask what I would get on cameo because now you'd be top tier. Okay. That's very nice. I wonder, but so Kenny G, I have a question anytime I've checked out, someone's shown me a video from cameo of somebody, you know, wishing somebody happy birthday. They're always in their bathroom and there's always, there's always a kind of cruddy shower curtain in the background. Two birds, one stone.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I'm just, I don't know. It's just, it's always these people that were on sitcoms in the 80s or had a, or had a decent movie role in the 90s and then kind of disappeared. And they're always in their bathroom and the shower curtain always looks kind of ratty. Was Kenny G in his bathroom?

No. He has a studio. He's got the whole set up and maybe it is a bathroom that looks like a studio there. So I don't know. It could be a backdrop. However, he was in there. He was playing a saxophone and we asked him for one song if it was a boy, one song if it was a girl.

Oh, the songs. And then they were two Kenny G songs. So we did the baby G, if it was a girl, like baby girl. And then the joy of life, joy boy, that was a bit of a hot color order, but the joy of life if it was a boy. And so when we, we got my sister-in-law Carolyn to be the middleman, if you will, and she got in touch with him, knew the gender and then played it on a large screen TV. And so when, when Kenny G said it, I'm going to play the joy of life, boom, boom, boom,

we knew, we knew it was a boy. You have to be well versed in Kenny G for that to land because I would sit there and watch it and go, I still don't know what we're having. Do you mind if I break in for a second, Katie? And I would like to, just with my limited knowledge of that story, I'd like to diagnose Kenny G and my diagnosis is desperate for cash. Oh. Well.

Well. For Kenny G. Oh no. Oh no. He asked. He asked for it. Yeah. All right.

Listen, Katie, delightful talking to you. Yeah. I really am impressed by you, what you do, and I'm, and congratulations on this baby boy. And I wish you all the best and I sincerely hope our paths cross because I would love to screw with some medical students. I think that would be really fun. That'd be a really funny remote segment if we could get everyone to sign.

Yeah. So I'm going to, I'm going to track you down. We got to do this. All right, Katie. I'm here. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

You're very nice too. Thank you both. So nice to meet you. Bye. Conan O'Brien needs a fan with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian and Matt Gorely, produced by me, Matt Gorely, executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Soloteroff and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson at Earwolf, music by Jimmy Vivino, supervising producer Aaron Blair, associate talent producer Jennifer Samples, associate producers Sean Doherty

and Lisa Berm, engineered by Will Beckton. Please rate, review and subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.