Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Uzo Aduba

Episode Date: September 16, 2024

Actress Uzo Aduba feels interested in being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Uzo sits down with Conan to discuss bringing her mother to the White House, nearly quitting acting before landing her breakout role on Orange Is the New Black, realizing what makes us unique makes us better, and her new book The Road Is Good: How a Mother’s Strength Became a Daughter’s Purpose. Later, Conan and his team escape the heat with some impromptu Verbal Jazz. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link https://siriusxm.com/conan and code CONAN.

Hi, my name is Uzu Aduba. And I feel interested in being Conan O'Brien's friend. Huh. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walk and lose, climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell whether we are gonna be friends. Yes, I can tell whether we are gonna be friends. Hey there, and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, a podcast where I'm joined, as always, by my bosom buddies. Sonam Obsessian. Hi. Matt Coralie. Hi.

Nice to see you both. It's nice to see you, too. And I'm going to start by my bosom buddies. Sonam Obsessian, Matt Corley. Hi. Nice to see you both. It's nice to see you too. Yeah.

Let me ask you guys a quick question. Why did you laugh? I hate going after. When you travel, yeah. Do you do things to make sure you don't get sick? No. No. You don't really do anything, right?

Mm-mm. What do you mean? Like do I wear a mask and stuff or do I take vitamin C? Do you take sanitizer? Do you wipe down the seat? No. Do you do all that kind of stuff? No, I don't.

Because when I see people do that now, I think, I should probably be doing that too, but I don't do it. And then I go a step further. I put my mouth and my tongue on the seat. Oh no. Yeah. Just because if it's an aisle seat,

it tastes good. I don't know why it has a cool... What? It just, an aisle seat, the armrest, it has like a, a slay of minty, but also is a little bit of, what is that? Is that pork? Oh, minty pork.

Are you a seat sniffer? No, no, it's not sniffer. I won't stand for that. You're a seat licker. I think those people are sick. I lick and slobber the armrest. Do you ever soil the seed or you just- No, what are you talking about?

Oh, I'm sorry to insult you. No, that's disgusting. No, I think what I do is very, in its own way, kind of classy. I've heard of a seat sniffer, through a friend of mine. I asked this for a reason, which is that- She like knew someone who did it.

Who did what? He sniffed seats. How did she find out she'd catch that person or did they confide? They had a camera set up. What? I know, this is not, this is... What? Off somewhere.

No, it's not off. No, this is, yeah, they like noticed something was off. This was at their house and then they like left the room and they left the camera rolling, and the guy just like sniffed seats when they left the room. I have like 15 questions in a row. And it's not even like a, he like dug his nose in. What?

It was just like, ugh. Okay, hold on a second, a lot of questions. When they said they noticed something was off, did they notice that he had like a cushion from the couch hanging out of his nose? And he's like, yeah, so you guys might wanna leave the room now. Oh my God.

Why is that bolster cushion hanging out your nostril? Seriously, they noticed something was up, you don't know what they noticed? I don't know, he was like a weird friend. And I think he was like a friend of a friend. So when they set the camera up, they didn't know. He was like a weird friend. And I think he was like a friend of a friend. So when they set the camera up, they didn't know what they would find. They had no idea.

But like things like chairs were like weirdly placed. Things were weird. And they were like, this guy's just a little off. Maybe the imprint of his face was in the couch cushion. Do you know what I mean? Every cushion was like the shroud of turn. Yeah, I was gonna say it's like a Roman death mask. Yeah.

Yeah. They just saw this face, this death mask, perfectly imprinted on their couch. Yeah. Seat sniffing, I never even think about that. Yeah. But now that you hear about it. Well now I'm like, what was I doing?

Why am I licking the armrest on the aisle seats when I could be sniffing the seats? No, none of that appeals to me. The reason I did ask- Braved stance. The reason I did ask is that one of our guests recently, Rashida Jones, I was chatting with her and she was talking to me about,

we were talking about travel and I said, I travel a lot for these max travel shows and I'm always catching a bug. Yeah. I just, I get run down, the hours we shoot are really long. I'm on all these planes, I shake a lot of hands. And she gave me a list of things that I should bring with me when I travel.

And it's the most, it's a very long list of all kinds of stuff, including like a copper, a piece of copper that you put in your nose that I think kills bacteria. I don't know, and the reason I bring it up is that my wife is really into this too. Liza's really into it. She reads up about home remedies

and ways that you can, you know, keep bacteria at bay or boost your immune system. She's always drinking various special herbal teas at night. I don't do that. But does when you go to a hotel, because I've heard the remote control is the dirtiest part of the of the hotel. Right. Do you does she like wipe that down before you use the remote control to stir my cocoa?

I'm like, I'm going to stir this up. I guess I'll use the old remote. They'll say there's a spoon right there. I like the remote better. Are you a remote sniffer? I'm a remote sniffer. I don't think there's enough immunity stuff in the world to stop you from getting sick.

Cause you've traveled with me all over. I always get a cold or something. Nothing that bad. Nothing that bad. I just get... But it's not because if your immune system, cause I actually think you have a pretty good immune system,

it's because you're talking to everybody, you're like close and everyone's like breathing on each other and then you just shoot for hours and then you like are, you know. I push it a little bit. You push it so much. I don't think there's any homeopathic cure for that kind of thing, you're just too much in contact.

What's called, if I had self-esteem, I think what Rashida should have done is said, oh, they also make self-esteem in a pill. You could have that. Yeah. But no, I appreciated a lot of her stuff looked really good. I just think you're right. I will talk to everybody.

I'll get like two hours of sleep the whole time. I'm not licking the aisle armrest, but I'm talking to people very close, hugging. When the like apocalyptic plague finally comes, you're gonna bring it to the States. I think it's gonna be you. Oh, your patients zero. Yeah, your patients zero.

Your Patrick Dempsey in Contagion or whatever that was. Wait, what a weird reference. I know. No one really knows. Outbreak. Outbreak. Yeah. What a weird reference. Yeah, S No one really knows. Outbreak. Outbreak. Yeah. What a weird reference. Yeah, Sona. Sona, what'd you just-

What, I just corrected you. Wasn't it Outbreak? You're right, but how weird of you to bring it up. So he's patient zero. And then Dustin Hoffman was in it, Renee Russo. That movie traumatized me a little bit. Yeah. Morgan Freeman, Donald Sutherland.

Yeah, a movie that prophesies a worldwide outbreak. Good thing that never happened, happened, happened, happened, happened, happened, happened, happened, happened, happened, happened. Wham, wham. It's the beginning of a rock song. Ah, ah, ah, ah. Ah.

That's a good idea. Well, I think what we learned is that nothing I do will help me when I travel, right? Yeah, nothing will help you. Sona runs in a circle of seat sniffers. Yeah, that I wanna know. I love people, that's what I wanna hear more about. I've never done that.

I've never set up a camera in a room because I suspected something. I should start doing that. God forbid someone does it to me. Here are some four cameras in this room right now. Yeah. Wait, there are cameras in here? Yes. Oh no, I come in here at night a. Five. Wait, there are cameras in here? Yes.

Oh, no, I come in here at night a lot. I mean, just the idea that, like, he's like, everyone's gone. It's time to sniff some seats. And did you guys just step out of the room full? I wasn't there. This is, like, something I heard. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

They, like, strategically left him alone in the room. And then what are they doing? They're just waiting while he sniffs seats? I think they're just, like, giving it a minute, and then they went back and like, you know, he was like, everything's cool. I wasn't doing anything. Oh, he didn't quickly get back in position?

And then it wasn't until later when they- No sneet sniffing here! Did I say sneet sniffing? Yeah. No sneet sniffing here. That's how nervous he is. No sneet sniffing here! I was gonna say, it makes me seem a little guilty.

No, no, no, no, no, sneet sniffing. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, That's pure Conan. That territory is marked. Ew, come on. Come on. I would go. Fully sprayed. You know what, honestly, if I was gonna sniff a seed, I'd sniff whichever one Ted Danson always sits in. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, is it Conan's? Oh, never mind. Oh, yeah, but you know what? I don't wanna sense it. Whatever cool, beautiful, amazing aura scent that he has, I've ruined it with my old potato scent. Is it weird I just said that? No, not at all. No, not at all.

I mean, if it was genders were reversed, you'd be a creep. It's true. But you'll get away with murder. All right, my guest today is an Emmy award winning actress who starred as Crazy Eyes on the hit Netflix series, Orange is the New Black. She now has a new memoir titled, The Road is Good, How a Mother's Strength Became a Daughter's Purpose.

I am thrilled she's here today. -♪ MUSIC PLAYING. Uso Aduba, welcome. -♪ MUSIC PLAYING. Can I just tell like a really quick story? Sure. Okay, the reason why I'm interested in being in front is because the first time I did your show, Can I just tell like a really quick story? Sure. Okay.

The reason why I'm interested in being in front is because the first time I did your show, it was the first time someone made me feel completely comfortable. I had always been so nervous. Wow. Yeah. I had always been so nervous on like television and like, I don't know, just nervous. Like it was so new to me generally. And I just felt like relaxed.

I felt like you were really listening and generally interested in what was going on. And I just felt like myself. So I'm interested in being coming over. That's really nice. I like that. No, I mean, I'm glad you had that experience. And that was always what I was aiming for

was to just tell people, it's just me. This isn't a big deal, we're hanging out. And then there happens to be some lights and cameras here, but I'm glad you felt comfortable. And you told me just now in the green room that there was a strange series of events because it was your first time doing my show on late night and you had to leave and go directly from there to the White House. Is that right?

Yes, correct. So it was like this like crazy, you know, like mix of events coming into place. And one of them was I had the exciting experience of getting to be on Conan's show. And then the next day, I'd been invited to the White House for the African Summit Dinner. There'd been a summit all week there in D.C. at the White House by President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama, which was like massive, like mind-blowing. And both was like, and I was such a fan of your show too, I was like, oh my God, this is so wild, we're gonna be on the Conan O'Brien.

You know, like... No, it really is. No, it really is two events of equal importance. No, no, no. No, seriously, it's like late night appearance with Conan and then, you know, is here and then right there on the same seriously, it's like late night appearance with Conan and then, you know, is here and then right there on the same level, it's like you have to pay.

The African conference, which by the way, I was not invited to. Again! Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Yes! Anyway. It was uncomfortable.

Everyone there was like, why isn't Conan here? This isn't right. You know what's so crazy, which is, I'm just curious what your feeling was going in and meeting the Obamas at the White House, because they are very good at making people feel comfortable. Do you know what I mean? Oh yeah. They'll, and especially the people the Obamas at the White House, because it's, they are very good at making people feel comfortable.

Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. They'll, they'll, and especially First Lady Obama was, and since then in the few, in the interactions that we've had, she just, she calls it as she sees it. She's just very easy to talk to. A thousand percent, like. Yeah.

I don't know how somebody can simultaneously match the level of the office and the esteem and the elegance and the sophistication and importance of an office, while simultaneously making you feel like you're just coming into their, you know, den or something, you know, and just coming to pay a quick little visit. You came from around the corner, which I absolutely did not. But it was amazing. And honestly, I think I can count it. Now I've had a baby and since gotten married.

So those are incredible days. But I guess tied with that was like the best day of my life because I brought my mom with me and that was like the first question I was like, can I bring my mom? You know, and they're like, yes, you can bring it. I was like, that's happening. And my mom who was just, that was her president. She can always be like, my president, my President Obama.

That's how she would always say it, you know. And she loved them and I did too. And that was the first president that I'd ever like, stumped for and camis for and gave like, the $10 I had, you know, like, struggling actor, you know, whatever. And I just remember walking up to meet them, and I'm gonna do a terrible President Obama,

but he's like, hello. And I was like, hi, how are you? I was like, my name's Uzo. He's like, I know who you are. And I was like, uh, what? And then he's like, who's this? You owe the federal government. $30,000 in back taxes.

That's why you're here today. That's why he's focused on. Yeah, exactly. And then he was like, who's this? It was my mom. And it was just wild because I was like, my mom shaking his hand, and honestly, you guys, I was like... My family's from Nigeria. Both my parents immigrated. You know?

Tough stories, some humble, humble beginnings. And I was just like, looking at my mom, I was like, this woman from Obosi in Anambra State, in the country of Nigeria, is now in the White House, I was like, this woman from Obusi in Anambara State in the country of Nigeria is now in the White House in a single generation of living in this country. And I was like, this is the time, I don't think it gets better than that. Well, that's the American story at its best.

There are many American stories, but at its best, it's someone can come from Nigeria and in their lifetime have children and then go with one of those children's invited as an honored guest of the president because of what they've made happen on their own with the help of their family, whatever. But in the arts, whatever, that's the idea. It's funny, because we are talking today about your book,

which is about to come out, and it's called The Road is Good. And The Road is Good is the translation of what your name means in Nigerian. Is that right? Yes, so my tribe, Inibo, my tribe, it means the road is good. And what it really even more like nuanced means,

it means the journey was hard, but it was worth it. Yeah, that's cool. So yeah, and it's like, you would say that, Uzomaka, like say you were coming to visit my house and, you know, you're running late and then you're stopped in traffic and then there's rain all over the road and, you know, there's a pile up and, you know, what was, snow suddenly here in Los Angeles, kind of, you know, like, all of it. And then you get there, like, tired and wet and drained and, like, I open the door and

I'm like, hey, Oza Maka, how was the journey? And you'd say, oh, Maka, you know, it was hard, but it was worth it, because I'm here now. And that's what... That's beautiful that your name means that. Thanks. Conan is Gaelic for the face is wide. It's...

ALL LAUGH CACKLING Well, both of those are very true. ALL LAUGH Well, both of those are very true. Both contain a beautiful truth. I've got a fat Irish face. But we both come from, you're from Medfield, Massachusetts. And I was telling you, I was in Massachusetts yesterday.

I came back last night. I had a gig, a performance that I did in Rhode Island. And then I went up North to see my parents and my brothers and my sister and they're in Massachusetts. So I was just there and I'm thinking, we probably have similarities in the way that we grew up in Massachusetts. And I'm also we probably have similarities in the way that we grew up in Massachusetts. And I'm also imagining big differences.

And you talk about this in your book, you're growing up in Medfield, Mass. And are you the only black student in your area? Or did you feel like you were an alien that had dropped onto another planet or did you feel like you were an alien that had dropped onto another planet or did you feel comfortable? At times an alien and then at times comfortable. I mean, first of all, A, yes.

Outside of my siblings, yes, I was like the only one. There were two others in my entire school. So there's a level of it that was comfortable because that's all I knew having grown up there, you know, I was used to it. But then there's moments that happen as you mature and you grow and you start to notice, like, the absence of you, that you're wondering, why am I the only person here?

Like, where is everybody else? You know, like, how come I only see them on the weekends when I go to these EBO meetings with my family? Or just even like in smaller things, you know, I would watch, I remember there was one year Disney, you know, the Wonder World of Disney, like on Sundays would do their movies and they had done an adaptation of Pollyanna,

an all black adaptation called Polly and it was with Felicia Rashad. It's amazing, by the way, if you've never seen it, I love it, I have it on DVD to this day. It's called Polly with Felicia Rashad, Keisha and I, Polly and Brian Adams, who was like my first like crush. And I remember getting excited because my friends at school, we'd always watch all the like movies, whatever.

And then I came one day ready to talk about Polly, and nobody had seen it. And I was like, how did you miss this genius work that just came out, you know? But that just wasn't on the radar. So those were the moments where you started to notice the gaps. I noticed the gaps, you know, or like talking about hair or braids or moments where people, you know,

have like my hair out and then have braids or moments where people, you know, and have like my hair out and then have braids the next day. And they'd be like, how did your hair grow so fast? And I was like, I don't know how, you know, I just realized that there was a different understanding of culture. Sure. I would think, cause you talk in the book,

which congratulations by the way, it's an amazing story. Thank you. And it's a beautiful story because you're really writing this. It's your story, but it's also a tribute to your mom who passed in 2020. You know, one of the first things that I clocked when I was reading the book is your mom, she died too early, but she got to see all your success.

And to me, that's the big blessing. Yes. She got to see your crazy success because it was a long road for you. And, but I was watching, or noticing in the early part of the book, you're talking about how you really didn't, you're uncomfortable with your name

because people had a hard time pronouncing it. So you told your mom you were thinking of changing it to Zoe? Zoe. Yeah, and your mom had this genius response. She had, and she was ready, you know, I was in the kitchen, I had a teacher and friend, you know, who just could never say it right. And it was like so, you know, tough. And you just want to blend in when you're a kid.

You don't want to like stand out for anything. I didn't anyway, when I was little. And I remember coming home and she's in the kitchen and I was like, Mommy, and she's like, eh? And I was like, can you call me Zoe? And she was cooking and she stopped. And she's like, why? And I was like, because they can't say, oza, maka.

And without skipping a beat, my mother was like, because they can't say, oza amaka. And without skipping a beat, my mother was like, if they can learn to say, chaikoski, andustoyeski, and mikarangelo. And they can learn to say, oza amaka. And she just went back to cooking. And it was like the end of it. Yeah. Yeah, mic drop.

Mic drop, a total mic drop. And she had been through it before. I have an older sibling, my older sister. Her name is Oni. Yeah. Yeah, mic drop. Mic drop, a total mic drop. And she had been through it before. I have an older sibling, my older sister, her name is Oni. She wanted to be called Tony, you know? Well, that's just confusing. The same... Hey, Tony!

And she'd already said the same thing to her, you know? And what she was really just like establishing right there at the door was who you are is okay is enough and everybody better get used to it. Good. God bless. You were a good student, great athlete. You were a good student, great athlete. You were interested, you were, I mean, very serious figure skater for years and years.

And you were interested in going to the Olympics and you had a lot of ability. And then your parents come to you and say, we can't afford this anymore. Yeah, you know, I'm one of five kids. And, you know, we had a pretty humble upbringing. And already there were two of my siblings were in college. And it was just, figure skating is a very,

very expensive sport for people who don't know. You know, there's skates and ice time and coaches fees, choreography, costumes, travel, adds up. My parents were doing the best they could, you know, to keep up. But as the hours were growing and just in that year, when I had to stop, my coach at the time had said, you know, she actually needs to skate more, put in more hours. And, you know, we can see where this goes.

And at that point, my parents were already, you know, pretty stretched thin. And they were like, my mom sat me down at a competition and she was like, this is gonna be the last one. This will be the last one. She's like, we can't afford it anymore. This is like a college education, you know? We don't have it.

And it was tough at the time, you know, as a kid, you don't have that same understanding and I didn't have the level of understanding or maybe even the appreciation on some level of what had already been expensed and sacrificed for me. But when I look back on it now and think about it, I'm like, wow, you know, there was skating, there was violin, there was cello, there was ballet, there was hockey. There were so many things that my parents saw when they came to this America,

as my mom would always say, that as opportunities and exposures and experiences that just did not exist, wholly did not exist for them as kids, that it was like, wow, they did everything they could. They stretched it to the line to try and make it happen for their kids and just give them a taste, even if they couldn't serve you the whole meal. They wanted to give you just a taste of what the possibility of America.

Also, I have this theory that good work is never wasted. Yes. So if you, at a young age, for many years, work very hard on figure skating and the training and the dedication and repetitive honing of a certain skill over and over and over again is an amazing thing to learn and that's gonna be with you. Clearly you take that because that doesn't work out but then you get interested in theater and you

apply that to acting and so all hard work is preparation for something else. It doesn't, people get too literal and think, oh, that was all wasted because you're not a professional, you're not an Olympic figure skating champion. No. That all went into something else. A hundred thousand percent. Like, having played, done track and field as well, and figure skated like for so long, which are individual sports for the most part. You know, like self motivating is something that I've learned since I'm five. You know what I mean?

Good head talk, being able to like talk my head into doing something that I want to achieve because you have to do that for the three and a half, four minutes on the ice. You know, you have to develop a good head talk. You have to develop a good head talk when you're on the blocks running track to get your mind in the place it needs to be to achieve. And listen, guess what? If that's not true for me, I have a daughter now. I can shove these dreams under her.

So I'm joking. I'm joking. But kidding sort of. Not really. You just be sort of. No. Not really. You just be a total tiger mom. You know, it's crazy, and it's this part of the book that is hard to believe, but you're doing theater and you're auditioning, auditioning, auditioning, auditioning, trying to get these different roles, and you're getting by, but a huge part of auditioning

is disappointment, disappointment. So you audition for Orange is the New Black, haven't heard back yet, and you decide, I think I'm out, I think I'm done. So you decided, more or less, to quit. Yes. Then you get the phone call. Is that correct? That is 100% correct. And it was also, by or less, to quit. Yes. Then you get the phone call. Is that correct? That is 100% correct.

And it was also, by the way, the first time I'd ever quit. I have never quit anything before. And I was... And I never quit this, more specifically, acting. I had, you know, doubted, I have questioned, I have been exhausted, but I've never in my mind been like, I'm done. And it was a Friday, and I was just wasted, you know. I had been auditioning for film and television the whole summer.

Well, exclusively, I saw my bank account, like, disappearing, gone, pretty much. And just kept hearing no after no after no. And I had made it up in my mind. I was on Monday gonna call my agent and call my manager and tell them that I was going to go to law school. I'm good. The ultimate humiliation. And cheap.

That's what's right. But I now, yeah, that was like... Can you imagine there are lawyers listening right now? They're like, damn it! I'd hung you in another day. Yeah, right? But I did. I was like, legit, that was what I was gonna do. I called my sister, Chi Chi. I ordered some wine.

I ordered some sushi, and we were gonna be like an I'm out party. And then, 5.45 p.m. On the nose. Oh, and my phone rang. And it was my team saying, um, hi, how are you? I was like, I'm good, how are you? And they're like, remember that audition you went on for, that show Orange is the New Black? And I was like, yeah. And they're like, you remember the part you went out for? Cause it was a different part.

I was like, yeah, I remember. And they're like, well, you didn't get it. I was like, I'm leaving at the right time now that agents are calling you to tell you when you don't get jobs. Um. This is a new part of our service. But you failed.

And we want to talk about it for like 40 minutes. And I was like, okay. They were like, but they'd like to offer you another role. And I was like, wow. And it was, I'd never done anything on TV. It was wild. And I was just like, this is crazy. And I definitely did not know at all,

for real, for real, for real, for real, for real, that that was going to change my life in any way. I knew that it kept me in, you know? Like, but I had no idea that it was gonna do anything. You talk about this in the book. So you get the role of Crazy Eyes and the time between you getting that role, I think it's within a year, maybe less,

between getting that role and sitting at the Emmys nominated when you hear your name as the winner. Yes. That's- Crazy. Yeah, that's fantastic. And who gives you the Emmy? Morgan Freeman. Oh my God.

Morgan Freeman. It was wild. I was like walking up there and I was like, for some reason listing like his resume and I was like, glory, Bruce Almighty, driving this thing. Is that and I was like glory Bruce Almighty Going yeah, this guy's amazing. Yeah, and he was just handing it to we started talking about the life cycle of the penguin No more again, no Yeah, but I mean it's such a funny thing about this business, but talk about famine and then feast.

It's just there are long periods or stretches of disappointment and misery. And then I'm always reminded of there's this movie that was made, I believe, in the 1950s. And it's one of the later Humphrey Bogart movies, Humphrey Bogart, Catherine Hepburn. It's a great movie called The African Queen, and it's about the, they're basically, it takes place in the beginning of World War I, and they're trying to make their way down this river because they have this idea

to accomplish this mission together, and they're in this tiny little boat, and it's impossible odds, and they're going, and they're going, and they're going, and they're going, and then finally, and John Huston directed this movie. It's brilliant, and there's impossible odds and they're going and they're going and they're going and then finally, and John Huston directed this movie, it's brilliant. And there's this scene that just resonates with me so many times where the river has gotten really low and so Humphrey Bogart is pulling them through the river

and he's covered in leeches and then finally the weeds just get too thick and they feel like we'll never get to the main river, we're gonna die here. And they resign that it's over and they get back in the boat and he takes the leeches off of them, peels them off and then they just cover under a blanket and they've lost. And the camera pans up and you can see that they're about 20 feet from the river. That always hits me, that has happened to me so many times in my life where I didn't know how close I was, and what happens is overnight it rains

and their boat just floats onto the river. But I think about that, just that image a lot, which is you got close to saying, well, this isn't gonna happen. And if you could pan up, you'd say like, no, no, no, you are... You are seconds, seconds from being there. You just didn't know.

I A, needed that message. B, thank you. Seconds. Seconds from being there. Yeah. You just didn't know. I needed that message. B, thank you. Yes, like I didn't. I really didn't. I felt like all the time that I had put into this thing that I loved, and I love it, you know? Like, I really love it. I love it still, you know?

And to not feel like I could... Like, would get, was getting to do it, you know what I mean? Was really tough to wrestle with. And make peace with. And I didn't want my, and I've said this since the beginning, I'm like, the minute, and I do mean the exact minute that I didn't want my, and I've said this since the beginning, I'm like, the minute, and I do mean the exact minute that I no longer enjoy this,

I will go find something else to do. And I was just feeling like this seer and this worry really that I was not going, I couldn't love this, this idea of just trying to make something happen that maybe God, the universe, or energy, whatever we're calling it, was telling me very clearly, like, no, this is not for me. And then, you know, when that happened, it made me think of that quote from The Godfather.

It's like just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in, you know? And I tried to get out and it was like, no, you're supposed to be doing this. It came like right in the minute that I needed it to happen. Like I said, and it was not something that I had any expectation of other than the two to three episodes that I was asked to come on to do. And that felt like enough when I got them too.

Like when I did two episodes, I was like, that was enough, and they're like, we're gonna see you back. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get to do that third episode, awesome. You know what I mean? Like, and I was cool with that. You know, it was like, it was totally enough, and then it became more than enough. And I was like... wow.

Like, just blown away. Then what really happens in the showbiz cycle is then nothing becomes enough. just blown away. Then what really happens in the showbiz cycle is then nothing becomes enough. (*laughter*) What?!

You call this first class? (*laughter*) I can't lie down completely! (*laughter*) It is there is a sick thing. I've witnessed. God bless, and it's never happened to me. (*laughter*)

Sona, more tea, please. (*laughter*) Blessed it's never happened to me. Oh. Tona, more tea, please. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. The, um, and then later you get, you get to, you play Shirley Chisholm,

just this great historic character, and you get an Emmy for that as well. Wild. And it's just, uh, and like I say, it's, when it starts to rain, it really pours. I mean, to me, because so much of this book is about your mom and getting strength from your mom and perspective from your mom and reading your mom's journals

and going back and reading after she passed her journals. And there's a part where you're reading her journal and she's writing in her journal. You didn't know this at the time, but man, I'm really worried about who's so, I don't know that she's gonna make it. And she would, you know, leave food, put food in your refrigerator?

Yeah, like she, after I'd moved, you know, I'm reading these true stories, like reading these journals and it's like, she's in there just like constantly, you know, like this path that I've chosen, she's like praying. The thing I think is she's prayed every night. Like she's like, I pray every night. Ending her journal, she's like praying. The thing I think she's prayed every night. Like, she's like, I pray every night. And ending the drill, she's like, that Uzo, Uzo, I'm worried about Uzo.

She never calls me if she needs money. She called today and I gave her what I had, you know, and it's like she's stressed out. She would come up the first time she came when I moved to New York and I didn't have anything. I was waiting tables. I didn't have anything in my fridge. And she was like, where is your food? And I was like, egg, you know, I just eat at work, it's fine. You know, like they give a pre-meal,

I don't know if any of you guys waited tables, you know, like pre-meal, they give you pre-meal there. I was like, they give me pre-meal there, and so I eat that. And you know, in the morning I just have like a little oatmeal or like some couple hard-boiled eggs, it's fine. And right before she's leaving, she took me to the stop and shop before she's leaving, uh, she took me to the stop and shop in, so I was in Queens, she took me to the stop and shop over there in, uh, Sunnyside Astoria, on the Astoria line, which is a big grocery store.

And she was like, get whatever you want. And I was like, no, I'm fine. And she's like, whatever you want. And she like would come and either bring food from home or like help me stock up my fridge. Because she was like, I can't do much, but I can do this. You know? And would just like, you know, contribute in that way.

And I'm forever grateful. My mom was an amazing lady. I just need to go on record as having said that she was not a good mother. She was an excellent mother. Well, I mean, that's such a big part of this book, talking about that. You said your mom was very... not a tall woman.

She's like five feet tall. Yeah. But she seemed really tall to you. Huge. She was a giant to me. My whole life. In my child memory, and probably because I'm like two feet, but I'm like looking up at her, you know what I mean? Like, and I don't think it was until well, well, well adulthood because I'm like two feet. But I'm like looking up at her, you know what I mean?

Like, and I don't think it was until well, well, well adulthood that I realized it was like, you're, like, not only are you not tall, you're actually short. Like, you know, like, you're small. Um, but she had... She was wearing incredibly, like, high platform. She got these Elton John shoes. That's right.

The Elton John estate sale. That's right. That's right. The Elton John estate sale. That's right. That's right. She wore them to intimidate. Took them off when we were all there. You know, like, she, yeah, she was that. And like, but she was like spunky. And like, had such a big personality.

And like, you know, I was trying to be, I'm the big, big personality too in my house. And like, you know, would talk and be like, no, we need to do it this way. My mom's like number one comment to me all the time was, also, there's only one captain on this ship. And you're looking at her. That's like her go-to line. What's interesting is you talk about so much,

people always think they need to change or mold themselves to make it. When sometimes, for example, you know, like the way that you said I wanted, I was interested in, you were interested in changing your name when you were younger, you were interested or you had people tell you early on and acting, you've got this gap in your teeth, you should probably do something about that. And there are a lot of people who go through these cosmetic changes to try and fit into something that someone else thinks they should fit into.

But now that whole idea just seems crazy. It does, and I can't imagine if I had done that. You know, frankly, for me, you know, there were so many pictures of me when I look at myself as a small kid, I just did not smile because I was so conscious of my gap. I'd do this like, you know, closed-mouth smile. My mom would always be like, smile, smile, smile. And then my senior year, I had a photographer for my senior yearbook portrait. You know when you get your senior pictures, it's like the fancy one. Yep.

Right? So we had like the outside guy come and like do the like yearbook picture. And you know, like every time we'd be talking, I'd be smiling. And then as soon as he picked up the camera to shoot, I'd close my mouth and not smile. And he's like, why do you keep doing that? You know, what's that about? I'd be smiling and then as soon as he picked up the camera to shoot, I'd close my mouth and not smiling. He's like, why do you keep doing that? You know, what's that about? And I was like, um, I don't like my smile. And he's like, really? I think you have a beautiful smile. And um, I didn't smile in that picture, but I did immediately the rest of that school year start smiling and

even now when I walk on carpets, and I'm supposed to give, you know, like face or whatever, I find myself wanting to smile, and it's because I want to, like, make up for these lost smiles, you know? And I feel like it's such an identifier for who I am. And, you know, like, if I change that, you know, like, that's so much of my ancestry in this space between my teeth, it's who I am, it's the smile my aunt has,

it's the smile my great aunt had, you know. It's a smile so many of my cousins have. We call it my mother's maiden name, Agnoko Gap, you know. And I would have taken a piece of myself away, you know. And now I just wear it proudly. And when asked to take it out in the beginning of myself away, you know? And now I just wear it proudly. And when asked to take it out, in the beginning of my career, I had a choice. And there was an early part of my life

when I wanted to really fit in and thought taking away the parts of me that made me unique would make me better. And at this stage of my life, when I was approached with this idea of closing my gap, I really understood that the parts of myself that made me unique are actually what make me better. Yeah, yeah.

And it's just- It takes a little bit of living to figure that out. For sure. Especially when you're, I had this experience where Mike Wallace, the great, you know, like journalist and host of 60, kind of one of the lead hosts of 60 Minutes, he was on our show once and there's been much commented on,

I'm not just white, I'm translucent. I go beyond white. I'm a whole other thing. And a side effect of one of that is that I have this vein underneath my eye that you can kind of see. And I remembered I was doing a, you know, talking to the great Mike Wallace and we're having this interview.

And then I said, okay, we'll, you know, we'll take a break. We have more with Mike Wallace right after this. Bam, do, do, do, da, da, da, da Wallace right after this, band. Do do do da da da da da da, and Mike Wallace just takes his finger and he reaches over and he puts it on the vein underneath my eye and he said, what are you going to do about that? Jesus. No.

Now, the thing is, he wasn't being mean. Yes he was. Well, no. I know what you mean. I have a lot of respect for Mike Wallace and he was very nice to me. What he was kind of doing was just saying like, as a guy who'd been in broadcasting since the 1940s

or 50s, he was kind of just saying, oh yeah, that's something you're gonna, you know, cause I was early in my career, he was probably saying like, oh yeah, so what do we do about that? Is there a kind of makeup you can put on or something? Or can you get rid of it? And I thought, well, it is,

I think it's supplying blood to my brain. So I could just see going to a surgeon and having it removed and I'm just like, welcome to the, whole section of the speaking part of my occipital lobe is gone. But man, his eyes look good. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I just remember thinking, there are all these things about me.

I had a weird name growing up and looked a little different and wasn't sure where I fit in. I'm like an Irish Catholic kid, but I don't really like sports. And I like to read and I have a weird brain. And I remember just thinking like, I don't know where I fit into the whole thing. But then later on those things become, oh, thank God. I mean, I'd still like to fix the vein,

but what are you gonna do about that? Yeah. I'm having it removed tomorrow, but I know it's interesting that there are many different forms that can take for lots of different people who are listening that if you can ride it out, those things, and I think unfortunately, you know, social media

and also the rise of all these different cosmetic surgeries or injections people can get has, I see so many people that have clearly injected their lips, injected their faces, done things, and they just look like everybody else now. And I think, well, that's too bad. I love character. I really do.

I love those little touches, whether it's in the face, in the hair, in the mouth, whatever, that just makes you look, stand in a different way. And I actually think those things make you more interesting. Oh, yeah. In a beautiful way, you know, personally. That's my thoughts on it, but. Well, I disagree.

I think you're out of your mind. Personally, that's my thoughts on it, but. Well, I disagree. Well. I think you're out of your mind. In the book, you mentioned that as the years go by, you think more and more about maybe, would you visit or would you maybe move back to Nigeria? Yeah. When I say move back to, I mean, you're born here, but you think about maybe going back

to that country for a while? I do think about that, like repatriate there. Yeah, I do think, I do, I do, I really do. I do, and it was something I used to sort of say like, back here, behind the back of my head, you know, abstractly, something I used to sort of say like back here, behind the back of my head, you know, abstractly, that I wanted to do for, you know, like with my kids, you know. When I have them and now that my daughter is here, I do think about that because I think about the line of connection for me to the country was direct from my parents

and who lived there their whole lives and then immigrated to the U.S. And then when I think about her, for just a section of time, I would like to because it's like she's now once more removed, you know? And I want her to be steeped. I just, it's more about like I don't want to lose the culture for her, but then I also don't want to lose it for me.

Like, and I think especially now that both my parents are gone, it's a way, like, almost like a socket of, like, plugging in for a little bit and getting a charge that maybe will be enough to last me the rest of my life. But I also do know in having something that I'm learning right now in real time, especially with motherhood, is that they're with me still. Like, my mom, I was so nervous, you know, when I was pregnant,

there were times where I was wondering, you know, how am I gonna do this? Like, am I gonna know what to do? My mom's not here. Like, who's gonna show me how to do this? And the reality is that I've come to learn is that she soaked me in who she is and put so deeply into each of us, my siblings and I, so much of her belief system, her values, foundation, how to mother, that a lot of it does come out, even if she's not here.

So yes, I wanna go back, this is like a super long answer, but it's like, yes, I wanna go back, but if I don't, I also do simultaneously know that I'm soaked in it still. Yeah, I had a experience not too long ago where I was shooting this travel show for Max, and we went back to Ireland and my brother, through the help of my brother Justin, and we also used this really good genealogist

in Ireland, and between the two of them, they figured out exactly where my town was that my great-grandfather came from. And I was thinking, I'm not going to feel much. We're going to go and we're going to see a field where, and my people had no money and they were tenant farmers, and they worked on this tenant farm in Galbally.

And so I was just not expecting to feel anything. And I've been to Ireland a bunch of times, but I thought, okay, I'm just gonna see a piece of land that I don't really have any connection to. And they took me there and we have it on camera, but I was blown away by how powerful it was to stand and think, oh, they were here. And then in one day, this Thomas O'Brien,

I think just looked out and said, we gotta get out of here. And I, like an idiot, I was looking at the gorgeous mountains and everything saying, why did they leave? And this woman said, you can't eat The View. They didn't have any food. They had to go. And so he just struck out. And so that's the reason.

And now I'm back and I've got a camera crew, drones, producers standing around. I flew here on a, you know, it's insane that I'm coming back in this way. Yes. And I was surprised because I'm, I was, the sentimentality of it and the power of it was a bit of a shock to me.

I didn't think that was gonna happen. And it does, so. See, and I believe that. And like, do you? And I think you're gonna feel that way when you come with me to Ireland. Yeah. And look at that piece of dirt. Okay. It do you... And I think you're gonna feel that way when you come with me to Ireland. Yeah. And look at that piece of dirt.

Okay. It's gonna be very powerful for you. Almost like the African Summit. Yeah. I love a special where I take Uzo to my town in Ireland and try and, like, a lot of probing, like, how do you feel? Is it hitting you? Yeah.

No! I mean, it's a feel, but no, this isn't Nigeria. Yeah, but isn't it kind of the same? No! Not at all. Couldn't you just eat the view? Wouldn't your mom be proud that you came back to Galbally, Ireland? No!

Who is this idiot, Conan? No. Wow. Yeah, well, I'm first of all blown away that you wrote this beautiful book and shared because it's a gift to people. There are a lot of people out there who don't understand, they look at what you've accomplished and they think,

well, she caught her break or they don't see the whole arc. I think it's really a big part of this podcast is I want people to understand how much all of us have in common and that you just, there's a lot of insecurity, a lot of frustration, there's a lot of ups, there's a lot of insecurity, a lot of frustration, there's a lot of ups, there's a lot of downs, and your book chronicles so much of that. And I think it's gonna be a tonic

for a lot of people out there. So good for you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for that. Thanks for having me today too. Well, I just thought I'd probably get a free book. Oh, that's why you very much. Thank you very much for that. Thank you for having me today too. Well, I just thought I'd probably get a free book. Oh. That's why you did this.

Well, there's a metronome. That's the only reason I'm here. I only book people if they're gonna bring me free. You took your watch off. I could take that watch. She gave us books. What's that? She gave Sona and I free books.

Yeah, we have books. Plus beautiful jewelry and watches. So much jewelry. Yeah. Free trips to places. We're going to Nigeria with you. Yeah, exactly. Yes.

You're going from here to visit the Obamas. It's like, don't tell Conan. Actually, the three of us are going to Ireland without the books. Yeah, exactly. We're going to Galba League. And they're going to Hawaii to visit the Obamas. The Obamas just, but Conan's not coming, right?

No, he's not coming. Okay, fine, fine. Well, Uzo, thank you so much for being here. The book is, The Road is Good, and it's fantastic, and it's out in just a few days, and do yourself a favor and grab it, because it's a terrific story, and it made me feel really good reading it.

And thanks for being here. Thank you, this was awesome. It's only awesome when an awesome person comes. That's true. It is true. Thank you. I can't take non-awesome and get it to awesome. I just can't.

I can't, I don't have that power. I do not have that power. Good. Okay, it's time to do a segment here on the podcast. And- Do you know what a segment is? Usually we have an idea of what it's gonna be. It's like, oh, let's review the reviewers or, you know. Yeah, one of your little trickaroos, one of your, some category, if you will. Oh, pretty good. Yeah, so one of your little trickaroos, one of your... Yeah, keep on.

...some category, if you will. But today we really don't have an idea. There was nothing loaded up. And so Sona had the idea, let's just do some verbal jazz. Let's just start riffing, talking. And the three of us, because we're such great verbal tacticians, musicians, we'll find it just in the groove. So this is verbal jazz with Conan, Sona, and Matt.

We're just going to start talking about things. Do, do, do, do, do. Do, do, do, do, do, do. We're going to find it. We're going to find a great rhythm and people are going to say, hey, I love that. These guys can take empty air and turn it into atonal jazz. As you can tell, I don't love jazz.

But we're just talking here. We're just talking about what's going on in our lives. Sona, how are you? Yeah, I'm cool, man. You were in the same old corduroy shirt you wear all the time? Well, it's denim. I wear it.

It's very close to corduroy. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. I just said something. It's verbal jazz. It's chilly in this studio. Very cold. It's very hot outside. It's hot as balls outside. But I think they overdid it on the air conditioning here.

I disagree. It's so hot that I'm still burning from having been out there an hour ago. It's so nice and cool in here. Well, it's really hot where you live, I have to say, in Pasadena. And of course, you live in Altadena. And you're at a higher altitude.

It might be a little cooler for you, but Pasadena, ooh, that's a frying pan over here. Are you not kidding? No, I'm not kidding. This isn't a joke. This is just verbal jazz. We're serious. We're just, do-le-a-do-do.

Really hot out there. If you cracked an egg on the sidewalk right now, it would scream. Tss, tss, tss. Oh, that's it. I see what you did. That's an egg? Yeah.

It was verbal jazz. Oh. Fizzling. OK. Yeah you did. That's an egg? Yeah, it was verbal jazz. Sizzling. Okay. Yeah. How come you didn't get it? I don't know, I did. Yeah. With this, the bass.

Here, I'll do a transition from Seinfeld. Whoop, whoop, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow,p-womp-womp. This is terrible. I was gonna say, we're doing so well so far. Can I say something? I think the minute I misidentified, misgendered your shirt and said...

Which is male? I said corduroy. Corduroy or denim? Instead of denim. And they're just, I don't know my cheap materials that well. Wow! And so, you know, I know all my silks. And a threadbare t-shirt.

Oh, please. I know, wear your cotton shirt. This isn't a t-shirt, I just painted my bare chest. Ha ha ha! Buh... Jazz. Verbal jazz! Not as good as having something worked out ahead of time!

Were you doing a boom-boom-boom bass? But isn't it a boom boom boom boom boom bass? Yeah. Depends, man, not if you're Chaco Pistorius. Yeah, that's right. Who? Oscar Pistorius? No, Oscar Pistorius. The former...

Yeah, the Blade Runner. Yeah, he went to prison for... Murder. Jazz. Jazz. Verbal jazz. Hey, you don't know what? Hey, we're on the weather one minute,

then it's Oscar Pistorius. You never know, man. Who's thinking about that guy? Let's get back to Patrick Dempsey. Outbreak. That was, wasn't that in the intro? Yeah, that was in a different intro. I know, but same episode, bitches.

You know what, it's the same episode. Jazz. I don't know. Oh, I just called back a riff from the beginning of the show. You know what, you know I realized he's really the only professional. He was working in podcasts for a long time before us. He's the guy that puts all these things together.

You're constantly fucking up. Yeah. Calling back references that are from an episode that we take through the same day. Are you saying the segment got fucked up somehow? Yeah. Say what about Bad Bats? Also, he's not the only professional. You were in broadcasting for 30 years. Did you say the segment got fucked up somehow? So did Bap Bap Bap.

Also, he's not the only professional. You were in broadcasting for 30 years. Did you see what I did? Does anyone think I was a professional? No, not once has anyone said, hey, you're that professional from the television. That's never happened. Everyone, I just, I look like someone.

You're a professional amateur. Exactly, I kind of am. You are. I refuse, I refuse to be a professional. Jazz, football jazz. I think, you know, I'm, look, like jazz itself, I don't know if this is good or bad, what we're doing. I know that I've been charged a cover fee to be in here.

I'm having a drink. I don't understand it, but I see a lot of people around me snapping their fingers. So maybe it's good. Blay, how do you feel this is going so far? Well, you know what? I think Miles Davis once said, there's no wrong notes. It's, you know, like there's no wrong notes in jazz.

It's more what comes after it. It's context, man. Yeah, I guess it's kind of, I mean, do you want my honest opinion? Yeah. No. This is unusable. It's terrible. This is terrible. It is terrible. It's terrible.

It's terrible. But you do have the riff going of you say, then it's jazz, so it's kind of on life support. I don't think we've really hit the point of which it's a real segment yet. Are you serious? This feels all like prologue. No, I agree.

Don't you think it's- That's the thing about jazz. There's not a hook. There's not a melody per se. Right, there's nothing that would make you want to listen to it. It's a feeling. Yeah. What are you talking? No, there's hooks in jazz. There's not a melody per se. Right. There's nothing that would make you want to listen to it. Yeah. What are you talking? No, there's hooks in jazz?

Eduardo's upset because he actually likes jazz. And you're shitting on jazz. Yeah. I cannot take this slander anymore. I can't either. I'm not talking... Wait a minute. I'm talking about the basketball team. Oh, Utah Jazz. Okay. Yeah. I just am not a fan. All right.

Yeah. That's what I've been meaning the whole time. As a music form, jazz, okay. That's what we're doing. Yeah, that's what I've been meaning the whole time. As a music form, jazz, fantastic. My favorite. You can't name a jazz song or performer I don't love. Utah Jazz, don't get me started. They're atonal, arrhythmic, and hard to listen to. Fair. Jazz.

We'll be right back. Wow, unusable. Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam Avsesian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leow. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnik. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You

can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com slash Conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. Thanks for watching. See you next time. Bye.