Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Weekend at Conan's

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

Conan talks to retired clown Michael Jay from Kitty Hawk, NC about benevolent clowning, working as a death doula, and what kind of classic clown Conan would be. Wanna get a chance to talk to Conan? Submit here: teamcoco.com/apply

Conan O'Brien needs a fan. Want to talk to Conan? Visit teamcoco.com slash call Conan. Okay, let's get started. Hi, Michael J. Welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a fan. Hey, Michael J. How are you? I'm doing great. How are you?

I'm doing terrific. Where are you in the world right now, Michael J.? I am in Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. Famous spot where the Wright brothers first plane took flight, right, Kitty Hawk? Well, I hate to start our interview off with a correction, Conan, but the history books tell us that the Wright brothers flew in Kitty Hawk. They actually flew in Kill Devil Hills, which is just south of Kitty Hawk.

And the reason that Kitty Hawk gets the notoriety is that there's no telegraph office in Kill Devil Hills. So after they flew, they had to go up to Kitty Hawk, send the telegram, and then I think it's a PR thing, because Kitty Hawk sounds much more aeronautical than Kill Devil Hills. Okay, let me tell you something, Michael J. You are dead to me now. Oh!

You know, I like this guy. You corrected me on American history. I'm humiliated. Um... Look, if I have to flame out that way, I'm okay with it. No, that's a... That's a, uh...

That's fair. You seem to really know your stuff. And now I know something, and you're right. I do know that the captions of the plane, of the photograph of the plane flying, say Kill Devil Hill. So, I know something and you're right. I do know that the captions of the photograph of the plane flying say Kill Devil Hill. So yes, you are correct. You just upped me on that. I didn't know that.

That's fantastic. Well, I panicked and I just tried to make, I don't think I've ever seen a photo that says that. He made it up. I made it up. You know what? I think after you said it, it's written in and it's now, I mean, that's gospel.

You know what, Michael J, you went in 30 seconds from being dead to me to being my best friend ever. Aw. Great. Because you paid me that compliment of saying that anything I say is gospel. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Michael J. I like you, you've got great energy, I'm clicking with you right away.

What do you do? What's your profession? Well, I'm a retired clown, circus clown. I am currently- Me too. Me too. Me too. Yeah. No wonder.

Although I'm having trouble retiring, but no, I very much, I'm with you, man. I feel the same. I feel your pain. So you've been a circus clown for how long? For 20 years now. So started in 2004, yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, and and Were you trained? Did you go to clown college? Did you you know, what was your background? How did you get into clowning?

I didn't and I'm gonna correct you again Conan. There's no such thing as clown college like a sort of academic institution Clown college that most people know of is really the Ringling Brothers training camp. It's like a- But wasn't it called- Now I'm gonna correct you. It was called, no, no, no, no, you're correct. It's called the Clown College, but people-

Yeah, who just mentioned this? Wait a minute, wait a minute. I've done totally fine with him correcting you. Michael J, that's fine to correct me, but it turns out I was, you just said I was correct. I was dating a girl once in another lifetime, long time ago. This is weeks ago, and I'm kidding Many many years ago. I was dating this woman and

after We dated she was working at the time as a in a sports bar And she was waiting tables and we dated a little bit in Chicago. Then afterwards, she said, I'm off and I said, where are you going? She said, I'm off to clown college. She had never mentioned anything about that. Then I told some of the other writers at SNL and they started making lots of

jokes about before you went to bed with her, would you take off your really long shoes? Did she sometimes have to sweep up the spotlight around the apartment? so It was a mistake to mention that to a bunch of SNL writers anyway the best thing to imagine the noises that might come out of a room of the Highly erotic guess what I, you just aroused me. I'm gonna say, hey, come on.

Come on? Yeah. What? Wait, I'm sorry. The idea of a clown doing it and making that noise, I think is one of my kinks. I wanna tell you something, Michael J. You seem like you have a great sense of humor.

You'd be good at clowning. What kind of clown were you? What was your persona? So I like to practice something'd be good at clowning. What kind of clown were you? What was your persona? I like to practice something I call benevolent clowning. A lot of clowns are real mischievous and are going to stick it to you. Pennywise. Well, yeah, we're going to stick it to you. Yeah. Pennywise is not a nice clown.

Malicious clown. Yeah. I tend to be a clown from the heart. I like to find the idiocy in a moment and live in that. We sit in the muck is a thing the clown say a lot. Yes. I ascribe to that philosophy, which is, there are different comedic schools. Some comedians like to, I'm the teller of truth,

I'm above you telling you about the world. I like to be in the mud or the muck, as you guys call it. I like mostly the joke to be on me, but also sometimes I like it to be about Matt Gorley and Sonamu Sesshian. I feel like I'm pulling them down into the mud with me and rubbing muck all over them. That's my philosophy.

I can't remember who said it. I think it might have been Buster Keaton who said, the audience loves a slow thinker. And so I like to be a slow thinker that has just a big heart. Yeah. Because I look like, and for people listening, they won't be able to see me, but I look like if a panda bear and a human being merged into one. And like we got in a fly teleportation

pod accident. like panda. So that's sort of the clowning that I sort of, I lead with that. That's, I like your philosophy. I think it's very sweet. And so you've been a clown for a long time and it sounds like you've been successful entertaining people. Is that pretty much the plan going forward

or is there something else you're working on? That's interesting. A lot of beautiful boxes have been checked in my life, and I feel very extraordinarily lucky to have led the path that I have. So I'm not sure. I'm really on the lookout for something, whatever is next. So recently, I became a certified death doula. A death doula. Whoa. A death doula.

Yeah, are you familiar with that? Well, I'm conjuring what I think it might be and I may have been around it. These are people that when someone's passing, when they're, is a death doula there for the person who's dying or for the people who are grieving? Both. Both, okay.

The easiest way to describe it is whereas a birth doula, so like midwives and birth doulas. Yep. A birth doula helps in the labor of birth. Right. A death doula helps in the labor of death because there is a sequence of events that happens that, you know, for a person who's in the process of death and dying and it's, you know, it's something where you can help them in their journey. You help the families and their journey you know you're there to help educate your help I have no idea how somebody prepares for that or how you can learn about that I was around someone and it's not a tragic story was someone who was very very old who was passing on and I mean I think close to

a hundred if not a hundred and they were passing on it was the on and I mean, I think close to 100 if not 100, and they were passing on it was the first time I had been around a death doula. And I was really impressed with the explanations they were giving about what's happening. And that this is a very natural process. Obviously, sometimes it's not a natural someone's, you know, bank safe falls on them. That's not a natural process. It's funny. Yeah, it's funny when it, you know, happens. The safe is made of natural materials.

Exactly, yeah. But in this scenario, I don't know, it blew my mind that this person was so helpful and just understood that this is what's happening. And as you know, we have a culture that isolates us from death. We scrub it clean. We don't, people used to, when someone,

people used to die all the time and they would have the person in the casket in the house for three days, you know, before they buried them. You were present. Now it's all been taken care of and sanitized. You're correct again, Conan in right on the spot. Cause it's, uh, it's something that we've gotten as a society.

We've been very separated from funerals. Rights. We don't, we don't prepare the body anymore. We don't, you know, put them in a casket. We're not close to them. Basically once they, once our loved one dies, would they, you know, get handed off and then we, you know, they come back to us, you know, either in an urn or in a casket, and then we put them in the ground. It's something, I think one of the biggest jobs of a death

doula is just to get death back in the conversation. I think as a society, we tend to keep it at arm's length. We don't even want to say the word death. In fact, that's a debate among death doulas is, should we be called death doulas or end of life doulas? And I think that's exactly the point is that we need to take the power away from where the stigma attached to the word death. Right. You know, we need to talk about it. It's like they're contorting the words to say, I'm a life not anymore doula. Right.

Wait, you're what? I'm a good times life over now counselor. Yeah. Which is just so strange. Life the endy guy. Life the, not, that's too harsh. I like it, you're hired. I've got some bad news. Oh no.

My running out person helper. Yes. Heart-ending. I very much am concerned. I want to do whatever's best for the people around me when my time comes. What about when the time, before your time comes? No, fuck that. Screw all of you.

What I want, Michael J., is I want some sort of in a weekend at Bernie's kind of way. I want my body to be around for a couple of weeks. And I wanna be brought to parties and stuff so that people really get the idea that like he's gone and it eases the transition for everyone else. And I get to party, I get to party. You're dead. Well, still I get to like, you know.

Yeah, put the sunglasses on. And so then I have to take you to bars around Larchmont. No, you're dead. Well, still I get to like, you know. Yeah, put the sunglasses on. And so then I have to take you to bars around Larchmont. I'm cool with that. I forget, Weekend at Bernie's was his glasses on kind of sideways. Yes. Yeah. And then the thing about that,

and I know that we were talking about a very serious topic, Michael J., but I've taken us to Weekend at Bernie's. And you're a deaf expert, and I think I want to get your opinion. The mistake they made in that movie is that when people die they don't become floppy dummies Right and this guy's dead for days and he's just this floppy dummy so that the comedy works When in reality they should do a remake of weekend at Bernie's where the body Decomposes in the natural way, but they try the same gags. Rigor mortis and everything? Yes. Right, right, right.

When does it get stinky? Well, let's not get into that. Oh, okay. I mean, I don't wanna depress. Michael J, my body will become very odorous very quickly. Oh, come on. I plan to die eating a massive amount of onions and chili. Oh.

Oh. [♪ MUSIC PLAYING FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES OUT, MUSIC FADES out, MUSIC FADES out, MUSIC FADES out, MUSIC FADES out, MUSIC FADES out, And then you keep doing a Conan voice and jostling me. Well, no, I'll take all the past footage and just start playing it. Hey, hey, Conan, how was your weekend? Ugh. Dude. Oh, gosh. Nevertheless, I'm Conan O'Brien. Nevertheless, I'm Conan O'Brien. Look, that's part of the comedy is it can't be perfect.

Well, bingo. Nevertheless. See, there's another one. Bingo, I'm Conan O'Brien. Hello, I'm Conan O'Brien. I keep giving and everyone's taking. I'm doing all the work around. Here's my chill chums.

I'm the Pharaoh and you guys, you know, work. I'm the sun. I lost it. Look, he is dead. He is dead. He is dead. What happened to him? There we go.

This is embarrassing, but my headset cord got tangled around my chair with little wheels. And as I was talking to you, it was pulling my headset off, and I was getting pulled lower and lower, and I didn't know what was wrong. This is how you die. And, um, I was a near-death experience. How about a near-death doula? Someone who can talk with

you through the stages of near-death. Because I think I almost bought it right there, Michael J. Well, it could be someone who comes and scares you almost to death and gives you different scenarios where you could almost die. I think that's a- Now, Michael J. Do you ever find, and maybe you haven't done it for that long, but, and I know this is a very serious topic, but will you ever use your clowning skills as a death duel? Would they ever come out?

Where maybe people are really sad and you're like, oh, come on everybody,op. Oh, god. Well, maybe if it's a family of clowns. Yeah. That's right. 75 of them step out of one hearse. I mean, look, that's going to be, you know, when that happens, I'll have won.

You know, if I can... I'm a big believer that... The worlds collide. Humor, we need humor constantly. And that's my reaction to death a lot, is just go with jokes right away to the grieving family members, often at the accident scene, just to try and ease the pain. OK.

You're the first responder sometimes even before the ambulance. Yeah. And they'll say this guy could easily be saved if you just do some simple CPR. And I'm like, CPR? What's that stand for anyway? Cookies? pralines, and rutabagas? Is that what it stands for? What's going on here?

Oh, it's Weekend at Conan's. He is dead. Are you dead now? I am dead. What happened? I don't know. I don't know what's wrong, Michael J. You've taken us through- To go down the Weekend at Conan's street, two things. One is I feel like modern technology has to be able to give us a way to

keep the bodies loose for at least a few months after death. It has to be able to wear a Caribbean shirt. Yeah. Right. Have a group of Bunraku puppeteers, like three or four come in, like operate you. Yes. The second thing is, my hope is that somehow modern technology and science gives us the

ability to do what they did in Weekend at Bernie's 2, which is there was the sort of voodoo. Voodoo, that's right. Do you remember this? Well, I never watched it. The minute I heard there was a Weekend at Bernie's 2, I tried to shoot myself. To make part three. Someone wrestled the gun away from me and I was saved.

But no, but you stood in line, you stood in line, you stood in line, you stood in line for a ticket and to see Weekend at Bernie's too. Did you, is that true, Michael J? You did. Absolutely. Absolutely. Did you see Mannequin 2 on the move?

No, I did not know there was Mannequin 2. Why are you bringing Mannequin into it? It just seems like a similar idea. Sister, sister movie. Was there a Mannequin 2 on the move? No, I did not know there was Mannequin 2. Why are you bringing Mannequin into it? It just seems like a similar idea. No. Was there a Mannequin 2? Yeah. Same people in it? I think it's just, no, not the main guy.

I think it was just the guy who's the, like, is it? Wow, you're all over this one. Well, I didn't expect to be grilled, Senator. Oh, excuse me. Then why don't you introduce Mannequin 2 if you did not have the facts at your fingertips? I, uh... This committee finds you guilty.

I, I accept. I just can't believe they, the first weekend of Bernie's is still something, like, he, he had sex with a woman. Wait, the dead guy did? Do you guys remember? No. Yeah, the mob boss's wife or girlfriend,

you remember this, Eduardo, goes upstairs, and then they just hear like squealing and they're looking at each other like, is she gonna realize he's dead? He's dead and she had sex with him. So necrophilia is a plot point. I want the listeners, can the listeners please tell me if this is true, does a woman have sex with a dead body

in Weekend at Bernie's, which is a comedy? Yes, I can confirm that. It does, she does. Yeah, if you were there for number two, then- No, that was in one, I think that was in one. The sex happened in one. The sex happened in the first one. I love that we got you off of your noble death doula

profession into the muck. Talk about the muck. We are in the swamp of idiocy right now. All right, Eduardo, what do you got to say? You told me ahead of time. Yeah, there's a parents guide, there's a sex and nudity parents guide for Weakened at Bernice because of the sexing

with his corpse. Yes. Wow, so it's necrophilia for her, but not for him. Well, he's dead. I know. It's nothing for him. Well, it's like vitaphilia. It's nothing for him. Well, it's like, um, Vita-philia.

It's sex with a live person. Yeah. Right, but he is senseless in sensate. He has moved on. Senator, you're out of order. Okay. I don't know what happened here, but boy did they used to make,

what happened to the good old movies? I know. Back in the eighties, they knew how to make them. Remember the water skis too? Yeah. And he keeps hitting the buoys movies? I know. Back in the 80s, they knew how to make them. Remember the water skis too? Yeah. And he keeps hitting the buoys on the head, river. Yeah. Classic movie.

And at no point does his corpse start to swell. No. Or burble. At no point are there various emanations. Oh, I think there are. Water skiing and he got waterlogged. He never swell. Okay. I don't understand. Michael J. I'm so sorry, Michael J. Can I just say- Oh, I think there are water skiing and he got waterlogged. They never swell.

OK, I don't understand. Michael J. I'm sorry, Michael. Can I just say, have we done sure to know how much I love this movie? What happened? No, I think we do. I think we do. Yeah. And the second one. And we'll get back to how you know, we know how you comfort the dead and dying. We'll get back to that. We're out of time.

But we get it. Bernie's. No, no, we're making time for this. We'll get back to that. We're out of time. But Weekend at Bernie's, no, no, we're making time for this. Weekend at Bernie's 2, does it take place like a day later? It's, I think it happens over the course of about a week. Right. So, and then Voodoo allows him, the corpse to be reanimated. And the two- Oh no, that happens much later, I think. It's, I'm not sure what the timeframe between Weekend at Bernie's 1 and 2 is, but...

Well, why did you call in to this show if you don't have the correct information on Weekend at Bernie's 1 versus Weekend at Bernie's 2? Hey, Toronto, can you give us the plot synopsis of Weekend at Bernie's 2? Yeah, plot synopsis. It's a log plot. That's okay. We've got time. I hope no one's dying in the next room, Michael J.

Help me, I'm scared! Shut up! I'm almost going and we're talking about Weekend at Bernie's too. Please help me! Good movie! I didn't see it! I'll give you the short one. After witnessing the murder of their corrupt boss, Bernie Lomax, Larry Wilson, and Richard Parker are blamed

for Bernie's embezzlement and fired. Desperate to find the stolen $2 million and clear their names, the pair learns the fortune was hidden in the Virgin Islands and travels there in pursuit. Meanwhile, Bernie's corpse is partially revived in a voodoo ceremony by gangsters also looking for the money. Well, it's good. We know that. The walk that Bernie does, he's revived is hilarious. for the money. Well, it's good. We know that's what he does. He's revived is

hilarious. I remember that he sort of comes up and then he kind of just squats and does this like sort of half. It's hard to describe, but you just got to watch it. And the smirk on his face is still there and he just walks and he's animated. So he doesn't have to have operators, you know, operating in this time. like in one. Yeah. He walks around. Okay, well, Michael J, you have completely disqualified yourself. I don't know, you're hired.

I mean, if I'm on my deathbed and Michael J's distracting me with Weekend at Bernie's 2, that's mission accomplished, I think. I do think you should talk about this with the next person who's moving on to the next plane. Maybe this would be a great topic, or maybe screen it, screen it for them, one and two. You don't realize this is not a podcast episode.

He's on as your death doula right now. Oh, right. Good A Time As Any is right now. All I want is a bottle of good Pinot Noir and a good pizza margarita, which is right down the street. And then I want to watch The Godfather 1 and 2. Then I want to watch Weekend at Bernie's 1 and 2. There it is!

Then I want someone to find a cure for whatever I have, but still drink all the wine and eat the pizza. And then we're gonna Weekend at Bernie's you. No, no, I'm cured because of the cure they found. Oh, no, you're dead. You died. Yeah, no, never. Can't happen. Never? Too big a star. Too big a star. America won't stand for it. They'll never. It can't happen. Never?

Too big a star. Too big a star. America won't stand for it. They'll revive me using voodoo. Michael J. Do you have a question for me before I go? Yeah. So, you know, a lot of my professional career has been as a clown. I feel like you are, if not, you know, clown, then certainly clown adjacent.

But have you ever for a, you know, feet first all the way in to clowning? And if you have, or if you are interested in doing that, what would your clown name be and what kind of clown? Are you clown curious? I am clown curious. Yes. I am not only clown adjacent, I'm clown curious.

I've often thought that I am a clown and that that is my natural state. My favorite audience is kids. I love to make kids laugh. And to me, that's the true test, if you're a clown or not, is can you make kids laugh? And I work real, I mean, I had trouble with Sonas twins because they are tough kids, come from a tough broken home.

They laugh at everything else. But anyway, I got them immensely. All they do is laugh. I think I would not overdo it on the makeup. I don't think I need to. I think I'm clownish already. I think I would slightly exaggerate what I have. And I think I'd be more of like the

Chaplin-Keaton school of clown. I think I would wear, and I think I would do a lot of physical comedy, which at my age is very dangerous and would quickly lead to my death. I think my name would just be Conan because that is my clown name. You think about it. A great clown name. Yeah. I was thinking about this and I was trying to think of something that is long you know, like long and skinny and red. Oh, Jesus. Kind of like you. Oh, okay.

And I thought of Twizzlers. Twizzlers? Oh, Twizzler. Twizzles. Twizzles. The clown. Twizzles is not bad. Twizzles the clown. Or also- Because I feel like Foco would be like, that's a pitch down the middle of the plate, right?

Yeah. That's, I mean- That's too much. Yeah. Everyone, yeah, it's right there on the nose. But Twizzles feels like a good like twizzles is pretty good. I'm also beef jerky jerk Fucking jerk. Yeah, that's good. You're getting closer

Hey kids, hey kids, happy birthday. Here's fucking jerk Hey, is that your face? Did you get hit in the face? Go get your shine box, you mutt. Go get your shine box. Are these the kids? Yeah, no, I'm the clown. Oh, you're the clown talking. I thought those were the kids.

You thought the kids were saying, get your shine box? Yeah. No, I'm- You mutt prick. That's me as- Go screw. That's me as the clown.

Fuck you, jerk. Hi, hi, kids. What a shitty party. Enjoy the cake. No one lives long. Your parents don't love each other. Can you do anything, clown? Balloon animal? No, screw you.

No, not gonna happen. I'm forming a union. I want a union. I'm a shop steward. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world.

I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get to the end of the world. I'm not leaving until I get, not gonna happen. I'm forming a union, I want a union. I'm a shop steward. Eh. I'm not leaving until I get 800 dollars in cash.

Hey, your mother's pretty easy on the eyes. Eh. Oh no. All right, Michael J, I'm a terrible person. Your instincts are straight on, man. You are correct again. Michael J, it was nice talking to you and continue doing your good work.

Thanks, and you too. Thanks for having me. And I bow to you. Hey. Take care. Take care. Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam O'Sessian and Matt Gourley.

Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick Leal and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Your Wolf. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blayard, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, and Brit Kahn.

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