Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Welcome to the Jungle

Episode Date: December 15, 2022

Conan chats with Jackie from Ontario about working at the Toronto Humane Society, studying baboons, and tricks to get your cat to love you.

Konan O'Brien needs a fan. Want to talk to Konan? Visit teamcoco.com slash call Konan. Okay, let's get started. Oh, hi, hello. Hi there, Jackie. Welcome to Konan O'Brien Needs a Fan. Hi, Jackie.

Hello. Oh, there you are. We didn't see you there for a second. How are you, Jackie? I can't complain, and yourself? We're doing just fine. So, where are you talking to us from, Jackie? Where are you in the world?

I live in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. It's about an hour outside of Toronto. Oh, terrific. North? Is it north of Toronto? It's south. It's south. Just on the other side of the lake.

Got it. All right. All right. Well, I'm glad that I got the exact coordinates of where you are. It's very important. What's the elevation where you are? Above sea level. Is this near Niagara Falls?

It's close. It's about halfway between Toronto and Niagara Falls. The falls often? Once or twice a year. Yeah. Once you've seen it, it's like, yep, that water is up there, and then it's down here. I've seen one waterfall.

I've seen them all. Seriously. Wow. I got it. Mr. Romance. Sorry. I saw the falls in like 87, and I'm like, yep. That water had a lot of potential entropy that then got expended.

You haven't seen what they've done since. No, what do they do now? Well, at night, they light them up all pretty. Oh, okay. Well, I'd better get my ass back up there and see the waterfall with different lighting. So tell us, Jackie, tell us a little bit about yourself, and I'm sorry to put down your falls. I'm terrific.

Tell us about yourself. What do you do, Jackie? What makes Jackie Jackie? Sure. And why Jackie? I am the... There are falls, too. There are two sides.

I am the director of behavior at Toronto Humane Society. Oh. Yeah, it's been a... Behavior for the people that work there or for the animals? For the animals. Behavior of the animals. Okay. Yeah.

All right. Okay. Yeah, I was going to say, sorry. Yeah, I moved back here, started this job about five years ago. Before that, I was doing my masters in primatology before I moved into dogs and cats. And then I went off and did my PhD in Prince Edward Island, which I believe is where you said your like nanny is from or something like that. Yeah, this woman that looked after us, Eva Murphy, she was from Prince Edward Island.

And yeah, she had many old folktales and folk remedies that she would apply to us. My brother Luke had a wart once. She cut a potato in half, rubbed one half on Luke's wart, and buried the other half in the backyard and said, that'll take care of your wart. Did it work? No, it didn't. My brother died a week later of potato poisoning.

It's a very rare way to go. Sorry, Luke. I wish you would live. I wonder what you would have become. You'd probably be living in, I don't know, Holliston mass. Who knows? But that's not the point. My question is, you said that you studied primatology.

Where were you studying primates? So I did my masters, like the study part in England, but I did my research in Nigeria. Oh, wow. Oh my God. So you were in the jungle? Maybe it was a forest, but yeah. Oh, she corrected you.

Wait a minute. What's so hard? Yeah, you got burned. Oh, wait a minute. How is it? It's a different ecosystem. No, it's a jungle. No, no, she took you down.

No, I'm sorry. Are you doubling down? Yeah, I am. I'm sorry. I think I know a little more about primatology than Jackie, who just got her masters in primatology. No, you got moated, corroded, your booty exploded, you lame-stained.

No, I'm telling you, and I'm, boy, I'm gonna write some stuff down on my arm next week, and you'll be sorry. I think that, I'm sorry, I'm gonna just stick with my claim that monkeys, apes, chimpanzees live in the jungle. Bear. Okay, you're not buying it. It's in a rainforest, at least?

No, it was a pretty standard forest. Oh, for God's sake. You're looking for something more, but it's just a forest. I keep striking out. I just don't think of monkeys walking around a regular forest. Ask her if it was a rainforest cafe. Hey, could, okay. So, what did you learn about these monkeys,

and how did you study them? Sure. These primates, if you will. Yeah, it was all of baboons, and I studied the big bad daddy male ones, and so I followed them around. I was trying to study, I went there to study their aggression, actually.

I was trying to learn about stress and how it related to aggression, and if you're more stressed, if you're aggressive, or less stressed, yada-yada. But I got there, and they were basically like the hippies of the forest. There was no aggression the entire time I was there. Oh.

I didn't see a single fight, which is good, I guess, but I had to, like... Can I ask you a question? I want to see a fight. Were these baboons high? Were they getting high in the afternoon? Because that can really reduce aggression. 420.

The theory that I came up with, really, is that the reason they worked aggressive is because they were in the forest. Most of the time, this particular species of baboons are in a more open area. Yeah, a jungle. Oh, my God. A jungle.

It's not a jungle. I think they were mostly there in the jungle, and then they found themselves in this weird forest in North Carolina, and they were too confused to be stressful. So that's interesting. Why do you think they were less stressful, these baboons? Why weren't they thumping their chests

and attacking each other? Well, because this particular species of baboon usually lives in a much more open area, like Savannah. And because they were... A lot of fights start when monkeys see each other doing things they don't want them to do, and because they were in a forest, they were able to conceal their activities.

So if a lower-ranking male was to have sex with a female, which normally the higher-ranking males wouldn't abide by, the higher-ranking male just wouldn't see it. And so there was less fights because they were able to conceal their activities. Interesting. That's cool. That's right.

You can't get mad about something if you didn't see it. This is fascinating because I get into a lot of fights with people. When someone younger, a younger male is having sex with someone, and I find out about it, even though I'm happily married, I become enraged and often attack them. You do a lot of activity that's similar to the baboons. It sounds like you're just very baboon-like. You're just mad because I threw my feces at you yesterday.

Yeah, and you tried to rip off my face and genitals the other day. Yeah, I got the genitals. And you didn't seem to miss them. What's the left of them? You called me three days later and said, Hey, were you here? Did you grab my genitals? When was the last time you saw them?

I don't know. I don't really pay attention. They could spend about three days, but who can tell? You know what? If you can give them back, great. No rush. Yeah. Take your time.

I was going to fedex them, and then I just did regular male. Okay, medium male. So, Jackie, I'm sorry. We went down a little bit of a rabbit hole there with torn genitals and me throwing feces at Sona. And I apologize because that's unprofessional. Do you apologize to us? No, no, no.

I'm just looking right at the microphone and apologizing to that. Apology accepted. Apology accepted. So you studied these. First of all, I love that you say you followed these baboons around. Do you have to, is it like a detective who's following a criminal where they're not supposed to know that you're following them? Is that an issue?

Well, once they're used to you, that's really, they don't even care about you at all. But my first day there, so they've, these particular two troops that I was following, they've had, they've been studied for generations. And so any person, they can identify different humans. And so any person that they recognize, they totally ignore. But my first day there, I was following around the troop

and we walked from a more, a less foresty area into a foresty area in this path. And across the top of the path, there was a branch of little juveniles. He jumped up on top of that branch and looked down at me, square in the eyes and just grabbed this branch and just broke it. Like he was like, this is what I'm going to do to you. Wow.

See this branch? This is your neck. If you get out of line. Did that scare you? Did it frighten you? I'd be scared. I'd run. No, he was so little.

It was adorable. Oh, yeah. More pathetic. Yeah, it was an idle run. Just like, yeah. What are you going to do? Pour a little pep bone. And so do you name these, these primates?

So I don't name them. We would have the, our, our assistants, our field guides were locals. They were people from the local village. And one of their jobs was to name them because they've been studying, they've been following for generations. And so every time a new baboon is born, they get to name them. And there is this baboon this one time right before I got there, who unfortunately her mother abandoned her,

but another baboon had recently lost an infant and was still lactating. And so she kind of found hers, grew up and basically adopted her. And that's nice. That's a nice story. And so the local field guides named her, and I forget the name, but it was some beautiful word in some Nigerian language. And we said, Oh, that's wonderful. What does it translate to?

And they said, garbage. Oh, we're like, that's terrible. They're like, well, the other monkey discarded her like garbage. And so she's garbage. That's awful. Someone's going to have to break it to that monkey. That's terrible. Oh, wow.

What's my name? Yeah, about that. Let's have a seat. Do you mind just popping a squad here in the jungle? It's a force. Okay, whatever. Anyway. So about my name again, is it Willie or Charlie?

Is it Steve? Yeah. Okay. It's garbage. Like the 90s band? No. Because you were discarded by your original mother who didn't love you. Yeah.

Sorry about that. You just broke a stick. Why are you threatening me when I'm just telling you the bad news? Mommy. Oh, mommy. Oh, she broke your heart the way you broke it. Oh, you want me to be your mommy? Okay.

I think I'm lactating. Come here, little fella. Come on. It's strawberry milk. That's right. When you have red hair and you're a man, strawberry milk comes out your nipple when you lactate. Mommy.

God, what a stupid little play we just did for you. Do I hate it being here for that? I think it was pretty tight. I really didn't enjoy that at all. Guess what? Guess what? I just wrote all of that down and I'm sending it to Pixar. Oh, yes.

Garbage the baboon? Garbage the baboon is found by television host Conan O'Brien. Lactating television host. Lactating television host and strawberry milk comes out. That's half the story right there. Jackie, we're cutting you in on this as the consultant. I watched that, so sign me up. I'm out.

Yeah, so you didn't believe, so you don't get to share anything. Yeah, you don't get nothing. Aw, that's too bad. I guess I'm not in the Pixar movie about this baboon. A man is lactating in it? That's what it was? Yeah. No, that's a bad movie.

The movie's called God Doesn't Make Garbage. That's great. Yeah. I know what I'm doing. Jackie, and so you've left this world of, well, sad, threatening baboons. No, I think you're living in the wrong class. Oh my God. But then you come back home and you are now in Hamilton, up in Canada, and you are working

as a behavioral specialist with what kind of animals? So I'm the director of behavior at Toronto Humane Society. I'm an applied animal behaviorist. I work with all the animals at the shelter. I will say, though, my specialization is really in cats. That's what my PhD is in. But I work with dogs, cats, turtles, rabbits. You name it.

But turtles don't have a behavior. They're just like, oh, I'm a turtle. Well, sometimes there are things that we need to... I'm munching on something, and now I'm not. But now I am again. I don't understand that. And it seems like there'd be a lot of moving parts for the turtle psyche. So sometimes there are behaviors we need to encourage in our turtles.

So if they don't spend a lot of time on, like we call it sunning, it's a fake light. But under their sun lamp, they can get what's called shell rot. So you sometimes have to encourage the turtles to come up and spend more time on their sunlight. So we do train the turtles as well. Is that like the equivalent of bed sores? I guess. So if they don't get enough proper light, the shell starts to rot. Wow.

Okay. Well, I guess turtles have more going on than I thought. Oh, no. My house is starting to smell. It's crumbling around me. Coming to Pixar 2024. Thank God you guys aren't in charge of Pixar. My turtle sounds a little like Mitch McConnell.

Yeah. Well, he looks a lot like a turtle. Exactly. Hi, everybody. I'm Mitch McConnell. He's always forgetting his shell. So, but cats, cats are your specialty and you know a lot about cats. Yep.

There are two cats that live in my house. They're not my cats, but they're cats that live in my home. What? Whose cats are in there? Well, I just don't think of them as mine. Okay. Because, and also they don't really seem that interested in me. One is Thor and the other is Cleo.

And so maybe you have some tricks for me on how I can bond with them. What are things that cats like? I've tried stuff that I thought would work and it wouldn't. Like making them really big sandwiches. Have you tried lasagna? Lasagnas that are much, yeah. I picked them really hot lasagna, large portions. Worst regard for you.

No. What, what do you suggest? What are some tricks for dealing with cats? Well, I mean, giving them lots of food that is appropriate for them is a good tip. Another thing we like to do is training, just teaching them to do, you know, stupid pet tricks that really helps foster your bond. And then there's this thing that can work. That's called, well, it's called the slow blink or the kitty kiss.

So it's really, it's just. What's this? What's this? What's the slow blink? I do this with my cat all the time. What is it? Oh, that's great. You can see your eyes gently and open them.

And so normally they'll do that to you as well. It's really just a sign that they trust you and they're willing to make themselves vulnerable around you. And so if you, if they do it to you and you do it back to them, then it's kind of a language that the two of you can develop together and really sort of have this communal understanding of what you're saying. So the kitty kiss. That's so weird.

Cause when I was single, I did this to women at bars. Oh God. I was often escorted off the property. Yeah. Yeah. It's a different species altogether. Is that a different thing? Yeah.

Yeah. I forgot it was for cats. I can't see you slow blinking at your cats. I feel like you just don't have the patience to do it. Are you slow blinking? I can't slow blink. Everything I do is fast, quick, you know, I mean everything. Ew.

God. No, I don't mean, what did you think I meant? Sex. Yeah. That's what I meant. Oh yeah. That's what we're, that's what we're responding to. Oh yeah.

That's disgusting. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Over in seconds. Isn't that, that's, I made that clear, right? Yeah. Oh yeah.

Lightning fast. Yeah. Like it never even happened. No one feels a thing. Anyway. Glad we cleared that up. No one feels not even you. Oh no.

I feel nothing. No one gets anything out of this. No one. No one. I do it. It's one of those things you got to do. You know. It's like, why'd you climb Everest?

Cause it was there, you know. Hey, uh, so, uh, I'm going to try slow blinking at these cats tonight, and I'm telling you, these cats are not into me. This is why you, and correct me if I'm wrong. You slow blink, and then you put your hand down, open up, and let the cat come to you. And before long, you're bonded, and you can do little head bumps. That's what I do as my cat.

That's cute. You know, here's the thing. Thor, I get along with better. That's the dude. Cleo, very skittish, incredibly skittish cat. Cleo loves my daughter and just wants to hang out with her all the time. And now that she's away at college, she's around the house, trying really hard to bond with her.

But I, she acts as if I murdered her in another life and wants nothing to do with me. And I don't know how to break this, this, uh, this terrible, terrible still mate with Cleo. Well, what's your current strategy? Is it fast motions and blinking at it really quickly? Yeah. That's the problem is I move really quickly.

And, uh, if I don't immediately get affection, I throw a sneaker at them. Oh. Maybe at least go for a slipper or something slightly softer. Just take a daughter. No, no, I don't. I would never hurt an animal. Let's make that clear right now.

So there's no phone calls. Do we have phone calls? They love it when I intentionally misunderstand that this is a podcast. If you're listening right now, don't even call in. Uh, well, Jackie, we learned a lot. Yeah. We learned a lot.

And I'm going to try all of this that you just said with Cleo tonight. And, uh, I'm also, I want to find out what happened to garbage. Maybe garbage needs to be rescued and brought to the big city. Right. Go ahead. Go ahead. The sequel to the Pixar movie where garbage goes to New York. Yeah.

Or I could put on, I could dress up like the man in the, uh, in the yellow suit. Oh yeah. The yellow hat. Yellow hat. And I could go and I could get garbage and bring him to Los Angeles and make him part of the podcast. Sounds great. Oh.

You know what? What's the matter? Okay. No, no, it's a great idea. I'm sorry. Is that what you guys wanted to hear? That was an excellent idea. Someone's threatened because there's going to be a monkey here.

That's what we want to hear. That's what we expect to hear. Yeah. So what? Okay. No, you're right. In the middle of the desert, you probably could do. I'm not very good at it.

Um, I mean, in a restaurant. I never know. But at the end of the day, you had a nice vacation. I mean, what I'm saying is you got to do your limit. Garbage lives in. You keep thinking it's a jungle, but you can make this look like a jungle. It'll be fine.

You should never be around animals. It sounds like, yeah. There's a Christmas tree in the lobby. That's halfway to a forest right there. Oh, okay. Garbage is going to love it here. Yeah. Well, I look forward to garbage takes Manhattan.

The sequel very nice. Yeah. Yes. Trust me. Garbage took Manhattan a long time ago. Piece out everybody. Yeah, and best of luck with everything and all your endeavors.

And I hope our paths cross one of these days. You never know. Yeah, me too. You didn't sound convinced. You wanted that at all. Yeah, me too. And no, no. Okay, now I'm coming up there just to irritate you.

This is my plan all along. I'll slow blank at ya. He'll come around. Check out the falls when you're up there. Nah, forget it. All right. Thank you very much, Jackie. Nice talking to you.

Thank you. Lovely to meet you all. Bye. Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian and Matt Gorely. Produced by me, Matt Gorely. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Salateroff and Jeff Ross at Team Coco

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