Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Willie Nelson

Episode Date: October 12, 2020

Music legend Willie Nelson feels great about being Conan’s friend. Willie sits down with Conan to talk about his new book Me and Sister Bobbie: True Tales of the Family Band, favorite guitars and musical influences, and losing money in hog-raising. Plus, Conan shares fond memories of antagonizing his own mother. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone].For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is Willie Nelson, and I feel great about being Conan's friend. Hello there, this is Conan O'Brien, kind of working on my DJ voice these days. What are you on your phone for while we're doing the opening of the show? I'm paying attention. I laughed at what you were saying. I swear to God, I'm starting the show, and you know I'm starting the show, and I look over and you're holding your phone and replying to who you're replying to. Honestly, Liza. My wife.

Yes. I don't reply to my wife. Okay. I haven't responded to any of her emails in like four years, but we have lawyers for that. What? What do the lawyers do? Trust me. What are you talking about? We have what's called a slow divorce going.

Liza and I are separating over a 35-year period very slowly, and this is the first thing is no email exchanges for a year, but we still live together and we're quite affectionate, but this is the slow, this is, it's a slow separation. Imagine paint slowly peeling off a house. Okay. But anyway, I can't believe you were on the, yeah, just put that away. This is second time in recent memory.

Yes. Turn it over so you can't see it. Matt, what are you doing? Real quick. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. I'm getting on my phone. He doesn't have a phone.

Matt has a pneumatic tube. Messages go. I live at Home Depot. Yes. He's so in love with technology of the 40s. And he opens it up and there's a vacuum sound. Look at this. Does he just have tubes going to all his friends' houses?

He has tubes going to all his friends' houses and the different scores he uses. He has pneumatic tubes going everywhere. Excuse me, fellows. I've got to check this out. No, you better be careful because you recently texted me some blackmail information, some collateral about you. We'll get to that in a second.

I promise we will get to that in a second. I just want to establish that Sona is going to be off the phone from now on. I'm off the phone. I was listening to you though. I could do both. No, no. Your whole generation thinks it can multitask and that's why so many people are dying.

Oh, what? Yeah. Come on. Your generation is like, I'm going to send this text and clean this shotgun. Kablui. Oops. You sound like such an old man. It's true.

You always do everything. Oh, I'm going to operate on this eye while I pick out the right emoji to send to my friend. Oops. Blind for life. No, it's true. These are all, you know what I'm reading from? The newspaper.

Oh, really? Yeah. Which newspaper? Oh, please. The one everyone reads. Okay. Have you even said the title of this podcast? Yeah.

Who cares? If people have clicked on Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I love that you're such a stickler. You're such an anal stickler. Boy, it sounds like a device. What? Fresh it up the marriage. I bought myself an anal stickler.

Oh, man. Excuse me. This is good stuff. Hence the divorce. Oh, please. It's a slow divorce. It's a 35-year slow separation. By the time you finally separate, the kids are like in their 50s and they don't care.

No, it's what I'm saying is true. What I'm saying is exactly true. Oh, okay. If you say it's true, then I guess it's true. The newspaper that everyone reads says that my generation blinds people. Well, you multitasked too much. I'm sorry. You know what?

I'm good at it. No, you're not. Clearly not. Because you didn't even know we were doing a podcast. I heard what you said. What did I say? You said... There we go.

You said... Guilty. By the way, guilty. Guilty. You said you sounded like a podcaster. You are not the model of focus yourself. I think I am a laser beam. I am a laser beam of focus.

You could use me to open a bank safe. You're napalm. You're just a globulous thing in the mass. Yes. And I defoliate trees. So what? No, but I will say that I didn't think it was necessary to say, and this is Conan O'Brien needs a friend, the podcast where...

You know what I mean? I think I was just trying to undercut the bickering and get us back on track. Thank you. Although you did gang up on me, but thank you. I'm sorry. I do apologize about that, because if I don't have you, I don't have anyone. Thank you, Matt. Forgive me.

You have to stick. What is that? That's the pneumatic tube, and you just got another message. Let me read this text. Your straw boater is ready. You have to drive to Los Files to the Hat Blopper. From you. From you.

In fact, you said... Anyway, thanks for your expertise and know that I have a working 1940s rotary phone in my office that I use regularly, fine ammunition for our next years. I thought that it would be only fair to be honest with you that I'm just as bad as you. Andy Richter, a bunch of years ago, gave me a repurposed 1940s phone. It's gorgeous. It's got a rotary dial and just that great heavy weight of an old phone, and I have it on my desk, and it works because the electronics have been updated.

Oh, my God. I love picking that thing up and making a call. No! No, I know, but I... No! Fine, go ahead. Fine. When I do it, it's cool.

Oh, my God. It's so cool. But I love yelling into that thing. I become a different person. You know the way when you put on a certain kind of like a really good suit, it does change the way you carry yourself? When I talk on this phone, I start telling people, there's a fire, McCready's bond. Get all the boys over there.

See? Okay, we got to go. Come on. Hey, you. I'm just... I love that. I love... You know, we've got to get some more milk.

Where's the milk, man? You know? I want cream and a giant glass pitcher. You know what, though? If Matt did this, you would just... No, I don't think so. I don't think so. You know what I would do?

I would be understanding, and I would... I appreciate Matt. Okay. Is it Matt's or Matt's? I don't know. It's been a while. Why don't you call me on your Klondike 6500 before you find out? I would love that.

Hello? I'm Matt's wife, Tutu. Yes, Private Eye. Generic Private Eye. Max Goorley, Private Eye. I want Max Goorley, Private Eye. Hey, I hear you're the top dick in this town. Everything's Jake, see?

What's the case? I want you to tell this son of a sessian. She's a leggy dame who likes... I think she's buying gummy bears down at the wharf that are laced with PCP. She's a shady type. She's always high as a kite. She likes those jazz cigarettes.

You know what I'm saying? She gets them from the sailors down at the wharf. I want you to tell... She's a reefer addict from way back. She's got giant hair. What the hell? Massive hair. I don't like this bitch.

This could be a rough one. You're going to have to go to Altadena. It could get nasty over there. Altadena's 6500. Altadena's 622. We're looking for a son of a sessian. Disappeared, eh? Took her out for some spiked gummy worms, did she?

I can't even join in on this. No, you can't. You know why? We've been at thousands of hours watching shitty old movies. Yeah. Like Matt Goorley and I. Uh-huh. I would be so happy if there was still an operator.

It's kind of what Siri... I guess we've come back around. Because it used to be... We'd just pick up the phone and go, Hello, Beatrice? Connect me to Matt Goorley. And Beatrice would be the local operator. And we've come back to that now.

Siri? We have not. In a way we have. You know, Siri's like, Hey Siri, what's the temperature today? Or, Siri? It's a sex shop that doesn't rat out celebrities. Oh, that's so...

That is so specific. Not that specific. It's very, very specific. The one on Robertson. Oh, this must be Conan O'Brien. Conan, you were just there two weeks ago. I know, Siri. I wish Siri was like Beatrice, the old operator.

Conan, you seem to have a problem. You've been to that sex shop nine times in two days. That's none of your business, Siri. I've got to get myself an anal stickler. And I'm in a rush, Siri. Oh, no. All right. We have no time for this foolishness, I want to call it, Sona.

You haven't introduced me and Matt yet, have you? Oh, yeah. This is my assistant, Sona, a 14-year-old girl who's addicted to her phone. And Matt Goorley, someone I respect, who's very good at his job. What the fuck? Wow.

What? Sorry. I do respect you, Matt. You do a very good job and you know it. Thank you. I appreciate it. And so do you. Oh, this got awful.

I hate this. You're trying to turn me and Matt against each other. I know what you're doing. It's working. My guest today. There's no time to waste. There's no time. You have to do it.

Yeah. And I will do it right now. You're going to be quiet. My guest today. No, seriously. We have a legend on today. In addition to me. That's two legends.

Here we go. Oh, God. That was insane. That's insane. Guess what? Even I'm ashamed. Oh, my God. Even I'm ashamed.

Even I'm ashamed. This is a red-headed stranger and a red-headed monster and my assistant, Michael Maneyhead. No, I am seriously odd and thrilled. My guest today is a legendary musician, a Grammy award-winning singer and songwriter with 70 studio albums. His latest album, First Rose of Spring, is available now.

He also has a new book, which is absolutely fantastic. Me and Sister Bobby, True Tales of the Family Band. I am honored and just floored that he is with us today. Willie Nelson. Welcome. You've been very good to me. You and Wayland Jennings came on my late night show. I think I was just about three years in.

I couldn't believe that I was in the same room with you guys. And I'll never forget this. You handed over your iconic guitar trigger that you've had every great artist in the world sign. The things falling apart. And you said, sign it. And you said, and don't just do it with a felt tip. You got to take a ballpoint pen and you got to dig it in there and sign it.

And I signed my name so small because I was ashamed. I was ashamed to be on that great guitar. It's the smallest I've ever signed my name. Leon Russell is the guy that started all that. He had me sign his guitar one time and I said, fine, I'll sign yours. You'll sign mine. And he was the first guy to sign my guitar. Well, it is amazing.

I cannot believe you've kept that guitar going. All your fans, I mean, that guitar is as big a star as you. That guitar, they set it out on stage before you performed. They put out trigger and fans rush up to take a picture of trigger. And otherwise, if someone didn't know better, unremarkable Martin nylon string guitar. You and that guitar are equally famous and it's still with you. Where is trigger right now?

You got it nearby? I was right back over there. All right. We'll just take care of that thing for God's sake. Yeah. My favorite guitar player has always been Django Reinhardt. He played a D'Angelico guitar and I tried to find one that sounded like his and it took a long time to find trigger, but I finally found one.

You know, it's incredible. You just mentioned Django Reinhardt and that's kind of where I wanted to start. And I'm going to say this about anyone who endeavors to be artistic in any field. You are the example that I like to use of someone who refused to compromise and demanded to do it their way. You were not a snob or singular about it has to be one style. You grew up as a boy. And I didn't even realize this in your little community in Texas.

You were hearing not just the blues and not just spiritual music. There was a Czech population. So you were listening to polka. Absolutely. And the SPJC hall was just six miles south of Abbott where I grew up. And, you know, they were a lot of Catholics there and they liked to drink beer and dance. So they really, I know about the Catholics. Okay.

You don't have to lecture me about the Catholics. I'm quite familiar with it. And I'm sorry they were around. But what are you going to do? What are you going to do? Join up. You know, it's amazing because you mentioned, you know, you drew on all these different styles.

You had to, you learned to play polka and you didn't have, I think some people get very set in their minds about what makes say great country music. It didn't feel to me like that was every year interest. You wanted to make music and you drew on anything that you could get your ears on, literally anything. Yeah. I loved all kind of music and still do. And my sister plays everything beautifully and she could play songs like Stardust, Moonlight and Vermont when I was really young.

So that was a brand new thing for me. And I learned a lot just sitting on a piano stool. Yeah. I want to mention this. This is as good a time as anything. You just mentioned it. You've written a book with your sister, me and sister Bobby. And this is the story Willie Nelson and Bobby Nelson of you and your sister.

This is an absolutely lovely book. It's heartbreaking at times. It's beautiful. You'll do a chapter, then she'll do a chapter, then you'll do a chapter and she'll do a chapter. And you're both amazing musicians. It feels like you're trading licks. It really does feel like you're trading licks about your incredible life. It's a beautiful book.

It really is a book about family and it's about despair and it's about pushing your way through that despair. The sheer volume of difficulty that you and Bobby went through is mind boggling. Well, yeah, especially little sister. She had to go through a lot of real bad things. Something I love about the book is how candid she is about the pain she experienced growing up. That you both experienced, you're both very candid in this book. You both have each other and you have your grandmother. Your parents are out of the picture pretty early.

You have your grandmother and your grandfather. He passes away when you're fairly young and your grandmother is really the rock who you hang on to. And you've got you and your sister. It's unbelievable how candid she is about her different relationships, her unhappy marriages, losing her kids at one point and then later to get them back. Your difficulty in the business. I don't think most people really understand, Willie, what a hard time you had for years getting started. I was just talking to somebody a while ago about one night in Ridge Top, Tennessee, where I used to live.

Me and Hank Cocker, a good songwriter, a buddy of mine. We decided we'd write some songs and we wrote seven songs. And the last song that we wrote was, What Can You Do To Me Now? The next day my house burned. Yeah, your house in Ridge Top burned down. I think it's because you wrote that song. So I just want to put that out there to the insurance company in case you got any money. I think they should get that money back.

But first of all, you sold Encyclopedia's door-to-door for a while and you were pretty good at it. Do you ever think I should have stuck with the Encyclopedias? Well, I'm back selling books again. That's right. You got me helping you, too. And guess what, Willie? I'm not getting shit. I'm not getting paid anything. I can't believe. You know, one of the things that your personality comes through so strongly in this book and your sister testifies to it, you were always smooth with a line and people always liked you.

You were likable and you would use that. You used everything you could to get by. So when you were selling Encyclopedia's door-to-door, you still remember how you'd get your foot in the door. These people couldn't even afford Encyclopedia and you felt bad about it, but you had to make some money. You would sell them a full set. Well, I sure try. You know, I'd get on the phone and call people on the phone. I had to connect with the phone department so I could get all the new phone listings. So I'd call them up and try to say, hey, I'm with the American Association. I'm not trying to sell you a set of books. I just want to talk to you about it.

If you put one in your home without the normal cost, would it be something that you would appreciate? Thank you very much. I'll see you at 7 o'clock. Yeah, and then you'd show up and get your foot in the door and say, I'm going to sell you something more valuable than gold. I think that was your line, wasn't it? A friend of mine, Jerry, she had back then was my trainer. He took me out to show me how to do it, you know, and one time we were in this house and these people said, well, we never make a decision like this and spend this much money. It was like $300-400 without praying about it.

And Jerry said, oh, by all means, let us pray. You got on the ground? You got on the ground? You got on your knees? He got on the ground. When it was through, they said, well, I don't think we can buy them because the Lord didn't tell us to buy these books. And Jerry said, well, he didn't tell you not to, did he? Well, Willie, I'm going to get on my knees for me and Sister Bobby. And I'm going to tell everybody if you want, this is just to defend absolutely a beautiful book. And I think it's inspirational. I mean, I can't even begin to list all the jobs you had besides selling encyclopedias.

You sold vacuum cleaners. You did simple auto repair. You were a DJ for, I mean, a piece of your career and you were good at it. I had fun. What do you think made you a good DJ? I'm full of bull, you know. Well, Willie, let me tell you, that helps a lot in this. I've relied on that plenty in my career just to get by. But, you know, you've always had a great sense of humor.

I'm told that Johnny Cash, when he was feeling down, used to pick up the phone and call you and say, Willie, tell me a joke. And he wanted a dirty joke. Yeah, more than once that happened. And, you know, I always had a dirty joke for it. And if you heard one, you'd go, I got to remember this for Johnny. This will help Johnny out of the blues. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Like a sign on the whorehouse said, sorry, we're closed. Beat it. You know, it's amazing in the story that you tell and that your sister tells, you obviously have talent. And early on, you start writing songs and you start having some success as a songwriter.

But Nashville wanted to put you into this formula. And I've seen the pictures. We've all seen the pictures of Willie Nelson in the 1960s in Nashville. And you're wearing a turtleneck and a sports jacket and you've got a short haircut. And anyone who sees it now says, how did this happen to Willie Nelson? It's because you hadn't figured out how to get out of that system yet and how to just be yourself. Well, that's true. I mean, there was a certain thing you did and certain things you didn't do. And I couldn't go along with a lot of it. So I decided I'd come back down here where I play the broken spoke or whatever and they don't care what I wear.

Right. And it's an amazing transition because you're living in Tennessee and you're working in Nashville and you're trying very hard to fit a certain mold and you had a lot of despair. I mean, I saw this in that terrific Ken Burns documentary on country music. You got once so full of despair, you lay down on the street in Nashville and thought, I hope a car runs over me and you just lay there. Fortunately, it was around midnight and there wasn't that much traffic. Thank God. Thank God there was no traffic that night. Imagine someone driving. I mean, I'm just thinking about the driver's perspective.

Oh, look, it's Willie Nelson lying on the street. I think I'll just go around him. I think people, I mean, there was so much to spare. Then your place burns down in Tennessee and you say, screw it to put it a little more kindly. I'm out of here and you came back to Texas and then I mean, I've seen the footage. You transform. You become more and more organically yourself. You got the bandana, you've got the hair, you've got the beard and you're playing the kind of music you want to play with your friends and everything explodes for you. Well, yeah, it was a good decision.

I came back down here where I knew everybody and they knew me. We had our first Fourth of July picnic and those went great. So we had two, three, 10, 15 people enjoy getting together, throwing away all their political ideas, whatever they might have or whatever, and listen to music. And I found that to be a good therapy for me too. What's amazing is to see you when you fall into that groove and you're playing with your friends, you're playing with Waylon and you're in Texas and you're letting your freak flag fly and you're finding that music, it's all working for you.

You look so happy like it took years and years and years, but you finally became the person you always were. Does that make sense? Well, pretty much. I didn't change much. I haven't changed much since I was a kid. I pretty much stayed the way I... Nothing really has happened to make me change my way of thinking and that helped a lot. I've always had this theory. I don't know what you think about it, but for years I was trying to be a certain kind of person that I thought people wanted me to be. And the minute I got... I just gave up on that and started to do things that I thoroughly enjoyed

and more thoroughly be myself is when I really felt like I connected with my audience. And I feel like on a much bigger scale, that's what you did. I think so and Leon Russell showed me a lot and taught me a lot about people and music and how to entertain a crowd and how much influence music can have on people. And vice versa, there's a great energy exchange that takes a place out there and it's something that I'll start to say money can't buy, but maybe it can. Well, it's good to... I always say I do this job for free and then I make sure we edit that part out because...

I like the money. I think you like the money. But it is true that you get into this place where watching you and watching some of those shows, especially from the mid-1970s or after 75... From 75 on, I would say, with Red Headed Stranger, I see anyone who enjoys the vibe at a Grateful Dead show was getting the same thing watching you and your friends play. Yeah, and still the same way because audiences, Rolling Stone audience, my audience, there's pretty much the same people.

The people who really enjoy music, getting together, clapping their hands. That's a pretty good therapy itself, just clapping your hands. I read a story about this guy in India who got up every morning, ran down the street, clapping his hands and singing. Next thing you know, people are joining him and then there was hundreds of people out there in the morning and their ritual was singing and clapping their hands. I hope he's gotten some help since then. He has some good shit over there.

I mean, I think one morning that's fine, but if he starts doing that every day, you know, you got to start wondering what's he smoking and is he okay? Yeah, and did he get back home already? The running and clapping has got to stop. You know, I have to say something that I didn't appreciate. I've always been a fan of your music. And then it took a while for me to realize what an incredible guitarist you are. And a singer-songwriter, it's always felt to me,

doesn't have to be a great guitar player. A singer-songwriter can be, and I don't mean to disparage them, but a Dylan or a John Lennon can be a fine acoustic player for banging out of melody. They just have to be able to do their song. You are an incredible artist on the guitar. And I was going to say, you're a much better guitar player than you have to be. Well, I always overdid everything. I mean, I just enjoy some of the solos you play, especially on Trigger.

They're incredibly evocative. They almost bring tears to my eyes. They would if I had emotions and a real soul. Really, I don't know what happened. I lost that a long time ago. But your playing is so beautiful. And it's so interesting that you say you're influenced by Django Reinhardt because I think there might be people out there right now

who don't know who he was. But he was a player from the 1930s and 40s who played, because he had been in a terrible accident, his court hand, he could only use really two fingers. People told him you'll never play the guitar again. His accident happened while he was a guitarist, and he developed a style. And I think it sounds somewhat similar to you in that you were determined.

Nora Jones, you know who she is. She said that I played like Django with one finger. Let's pretend that's a compliment. I thought it was. I was amazed too that I think your decision to amplify, to just drop an amplifier in trigger and say, no, I'm not going to go with this with a big electric. That's what everybody else does.

I'm just going to put an amplifier in this essentially classical guitar, this beat up classical guitar. And one of the things I got to tell you is I always know it's you. Even before you start singing, if I've got the radio on and I hear that guitar, I know it's you. Yeah, it's got its own sound. It's got its own thing, and I think it sounds like you, and your voice and that, I don't know how long it took you to figure out,

this is the sound for me. You must have known pretty quickly this is it. Well, again, it's like when I heard play the guitar, it reminded me of the D'Angelico guitar that Django played. And I really love that sound. And so, you know, I've hung on to that guitar, and instead of trying to play another guitar, I put some wires in there and said, keep it going, you know.

Your sister was an incredible, is incredible piano player and played the Hammond organ and figured that out. And I mean, she tells her story, but the theme of this book is really family. You guys, no matter what was happening, you'd always find a way, sometimes you'd be living in different parts of the United States, you always found a way to come back together.

And that seems to have been a big theme in your life, having so many, keeping everyone close. Yeah, we still say hello every day. That's it, hello. Hello, goodbye. Okay, well, what a rich relationship. Yeah, yeah. Some things you don't have to put in words.

Exactly, exactly. Sometimes it's nice to throw one other thing in there, you know, but whatever, or just, you know, oh, look at that tree. You see why no one wants me to write a song. I did a concert tour, it was mostly comedy, but I threw some music in there, and I don't know if you remember this song,

but I would end every show with On the Road again, I would play it. That's an absolutely gorgeous song. I butchered it. I probably hurt that song standing, but I apologize for that. I've always felt a little guilty about that. But Good Lord, does that get people moving, that song? Well, yeah, thank you for singing it.

I'd love to hear you do it. Oh, you really don't. You know, I got this nice package from Willie Nelson, and I'm so excited. When you get a package from Willie Nelson, you think one thing. Don't you, Sona? I hope for some type of marijuana. Yes, that's what, yeah.

And what we get is coffee. Now it looks good. It looks good, Willie. Don't smoke it. Too late. Too late, Willie. I smoked four pounds of coffee, and I've been up for 17 days.

But I wrote some incredible music. No, you sent me, I mean, you've got Willie's Remedy, Dark Roast Whole Bean Coffee, and it's made of organically grown American hemp. I'm just saying, when I saw hemp, you understand, it's in a brown paper bag, and it's hemp from Willie Nelson. Why there'd be a misunderstanding.

No, no, no. Don't go there. Don't go there. Don't go there. You smoked hot on the roof of the White House. What do you mean, don't go there? I heard about that. What do you mean you heard about that?

You were there. You can't say I heard about that. That's what they told me. You were there. I almost remember it. Willie, I got to tell you something. We are at a time in our nation's politics where people are very divided and there's a lot of anger.

I think everybody can agree that smoking pot on the roof of the White House is something that could bring the United States together. I think. Yeah, brought me together. And it was with Jimmy Carter's son, I believe. Oh, Chippo, yeah. We also went down to the basement

where they have a bowling alley down there and I didn't bowl or nothing, but that night I got to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom. So that's a pretty cool place. Right, so can I just paint the picture? You're on the roof, getting high, then you're in the bowling alley in the basement of the White House

and then you're in the Lincoln bedroom probably having much better dreams than Abraham Lincoln ever had. Maybe so, maybe so. I'm told, I'm a historian. Lincoln used to hang out in that bowling alley sometimes. And when the Civil War was... And up on the roof.

Yeah. When the Civil War wasn't going well, he'd, you know, he'd talk up a little bit and then he'd go to bed and everything was copacetic after that. I cannot believe, I think this is your... Is this your 70th album that you've just put out? Sounds about right.

Are you even counting at this point? I mean, that's just... Oh, no, no, no. It's incredible. And I would think that you have pretty much, you know, people say like, well, they look at someone like a Willie Nelson, they say, well, he's must have met everybody

that he wanted to meet. I can't think of a recording artist that you haven't worked with. Was there someone who you idolized that you didn't get to work with? Well, yeah, I would have liked to have done something with Hank Williams, you know. Yeah, oh my God.

But I was fortunate enough to get to play with a lot of my heroes like Bob Wills. In fact, when I was 14 years old, I booked Bob Wills. I was the promoter on the gig in Whitney, Texas, and I bought him for, I think, $1,000 back in those days. Paid him off and didn't make a quarter, but I booked Bob Wills.

And in a way, you made no money, but you got to meet him, which is the things we will do to meet our heroes. And I got to sing with him. And the funny part of it was my phrasing is kind of crazy. So he said, I didn't know where to come in and do my ah-has. That's right. Ah-ha!

I know that ah-ha. Ah-ha! That's it. I used to do that when I wanted to tease my brothers. I'd go, ah-ha! And they would beat the living shit out of me, Willie. Ah-ha! But I had it coming. So you never got to meet Hank Williams?

Did you ever meet him? No, I never did. I always wanted to. But he passed away before I had a chance. He was only 29 when he died. I know. I know. You just mentioned your phrasing, and I was thinking about it.

Your phrasing is very distinct. I don't know if I'm describing it correctly, but it feels like you're almost, it's like you're risking being behind the beat. Is that a fair way to say it? Phrasing? Yeah, the way that you... Yeah.

It's like you're holding back just a little bit, and it works beautifully, and it's distinctive to you, but it's not right in the pocket, so to say. Is that right? Well, my favorite all-time singer is Frank Sinatra. And one of his greatest, you know, talents was in phrases. Yes.

And I learned a lot by just listening to Frank. And again, who would have thought that you would list as your people that inspired you, Django Reinhardt or Frank Sinatra? But to me, it's having a liberal... I don't mean this in a political way, but a liberal open mind that's open to anything. And if it's polka, it's polka.

Or if it's Spanish music, it's Spanish music. And there are a lot of people that might think, well, if you grew up in this rural area in Texas, you might only be exposed to one type of person. And you made it very clear that you worked... You had to work in the fields picking cotton. And so you were meeting and talking to and befriending black people, Hispanic people,

European immigrants. You met everybody. My grandmother used to say the definition of music was anything that's pleasing to the ear. Wow. I thought that was pretty good. Yeah. And not getting rigid about it.

Not getting... And in no way being something that breaks down walls. Absolutely. Makes people feel good. I mean, you said for you growing up and experiencing and for your sister, all kinds of difficulties and heartbreaking situations, music was what could make you feel better.

And so for you, writing that music was trying to give that to somebody else. Yeah. And some of my greatest experiences was out working in the cotton fields with the African-Americans and with Latinos, with everybody. And I would... They would sing to me and everything.

You know, I'd hear the mariachi singing over here and I'd hear the blues over here. So I learned a lot about music just by picking cotton. Did you go back there ever? I mean, I know it's a tiny place, but did you go back to this tiny little place that you were from, Abbott, Texas? Absolutely.

My sister and I own the Methodist church there in Abbott. And they still have services every Sunday, have music and whatever. And they're doing well down there. So, yeah, we still have connections in Abbott. I was fascinated too. It's in your book that you taught Sunday school for a while. I did.

And you enjoyed it. Oh, yeah, I did. Until they asked you, they found out what you did for a living. Is that true? They weren't too thrilled with the Sunday school teacher who played honky-tonks. Is that right?

Well, the funny part of it was, though, I was playing to the people on Saturday nights that I was singing to on Sunday morning. Yeah, there's this great part of the book where you're teaching Sunday school. And yeah, you'd sing to them on Saturday night Sunday. They'd be there a little hungover, but they'd be there at church.

But then one of the church dignitaries came up and talked to you and said, well, you're teaching Sunday school. Can I ask you what you do? And he was telling you he didn't think that you should be teaching Sunday school because you were playing these honky-tonks. And he said, you know, do you think God is here in church?

He's not in the honky-tonks. And you said God is everywhere. What are you talking about? God's in the honky-tonk as well. Yeah, and God paid me some money on the honky-tonk. God kept putting in requests. Blue eyes crying in the rain. Come on, God.

I've played it four times, God. I wanted to get it. God, you've been over-served, God. You know what's funny? You talk about this a lot in the book and that you are such, in my encounters with you, you're such a kind, nice, gentle, witty guy. And you talk very frankly in this book

about how when you would drink, you'd become a different person and that you'd be looking for a fight. Yeah, my friend, all-time good friend, Paul English, used to be my kind of, he'd go with me wherever we go because whenever I'd get drunk, I'd want to fight. So he'd have to be there to help get me out of it, keep me alive.

And he would usually, I'd be too drunk to stand up and he'd roll up a fat joint and hand it to me. Next thing, you know, I'm out in the bed, sound asleep, so he knew what to do. Right, right. That's a good friend to have who always has a fat joint. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

But you know, that is something that changed your life is you switched over to marijuana and you said it really did help mellow you out and helped you be more contemplative and helped you get off of the cigarettes and the booze, which made a huge difference in your life. Absolutely, absolutely. The best thing that I did, really,

with all my life, I've smoked something. I started out smoking cedar bark and grapevine anything that would burn. Do you recommend that? Do you recommend smoking cedar bark? No, it wasn't that good. Hey, Willie, we have a contest called Understatement of the Decade

and you just won. You just won Understatement of the Decade. Yes, it's not that good. I gotta tell you, Conan, don't, because I was thinking about doing that today. No, don't do it. We're gonna have you do a public service announcement. Kids, Willie Nelson here.

Don't smoke. Well, not to smoke. Don't smoke cedar bark. I know you want to. I know you're feeling like this is what you gotta do. I have to say, this book is an absolute... I started reading it and I couldn't put it down. And again, I think it's a tribute to...

I go back to this all the time, but most of the artists I really admire had to suffer a lot, and that's unfortunately probably part of the creative process, that the hard times you went through were probably essential to you being able to write those songs, don't you think? Yeah.

A friend of mine, a preacher, said one time, that's when you lose life or something, he said it's not something you get over, but it's something you get through. And I thought that was a pretty good way of looking at it. In your case, it's a mixture probably of... You had a lot of talent, but you also went through an incredible amount of pain

and disappointment over different periods of time. Plus, you listened to every single kind of music, and when you put that all in a blender, you start waking up and making it sound too easy, but you've got a song like Hello Walls, or Funny How Time Slips Away, or Nightlife or Crazy. It comes to you, and it comes to you

because you put in all that effort, and then when your back was turned, it was delivered to you. Does that sound feasible? You know, Crazy was an easy one to write because I've always felt a little bit crazy, and I don't mind that. It was a little bit okay.

But when Pasty Klein recorded that song, she did such an incredible job that she made that song the all-time favorite jukebox song. I know. I mean, that changed everything because... Well, first of all, I love this story of how you wrote that song, and someone came to you and said,

this would be great for Pasty Klein, who at the time is probably the biggest country star, and he said, let's go wake her up at home, and you can play it for her. And that's... I mean, it does not seem like a good time to pitch a song to somebody. You guys woke up Pasty Klein.

Is that right? Well, her husband, a guy named Charlie Dick, was in Tuncie's Orchid Lounds there in Nashville. We were there together. It was almost midnight. And I had played crazy for him, and he said, Pasty's got to hear this. I said, no, it's too late. He said, come on, she'll want to hear it.

So I didn't want to get out of the car. He went in and she came back out of the car, got me, made me come in. I was saying crazy. She recorded it the next week. Oh, my God. And it's the most popular jukebox song of all time. Ever. Yeah.

I mean, good for her, too. If anyone wakes me up in the middle of the night, even if it's you, Willie, if Willie Nelson wakes me up at two in the morning and says, I got a hit song for you, I say, get the fuck out of my house. Get out from under my bed. Willie, I'm tired of you pitching me songs

in the middle of the night. I need my sleep. I got shit to do, Willie. That story, it's such an iconic song. And I think that probably gave you some freedom because then you start getting what used to be called, maybe they still call it mailbox money. Absolutely.

That's the danger and helped you get on your feet a little bit. Yeah, and it allowed me to, I stayed in Nashville for a year and didn't do anything but write songs and raise hogs. Lost a fortune raising hogs, by the way. You lost money raising hogs? Oh, God, yes.

Were the hogs embezzling? How does that, what happened? How did you lose money raising hogs? I bought them for X amount per pound and then sold them, fed them for six months and sold them later for less than what I paid for. You know what, Willie, that is not a sound business theory. No, it's not.

They teach that at Harvard Business School. They say, don't do the, it's called the Willie Nelson hog raising method. It's called, it's a classic mistake. It won't work. Well, I want to do this. I want to make sure that I get out the word on First Rose of Spring.

It's available now. And I think it's your 70th studio album, just a stunning achievement. And I very sincerely recommend that everybody read Me and Sister Bobby, True Tales of the Family Band by Willie Nelson and his sister Bobby Nelson because it's about pretty much everything. It's about family.

It's about creativity. It's about pushing through adversity. It's about American history of the 20th century and songwriting and the music business and the good times and the bad times. And I can't say enough good about it. It really is a stunning piece of work. Willie, I want to let you go, but I will say this,

driving here today to talk to you, I said out loud in my car, I get to talk to Willie Nelson. I've had the chance to do that a few times. And anytime I think about that, I almost tear up because I did something right in the previous life. It's just a blessing.

It really is a blessing to talk to you. It really is. The day's not over yet. All right, so here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to smoke some of the coffee you sent me. There you go. And then that's going to keep me up for about five days. I'm going to start driving and I should be in Texas.

And it's going to take about nine, about 10 hours. Come on. And I'll bring my 1946 Martin. And I won't play it. I'll just give it to you. Thank you. Willie Nelson, thank you. God bless and be well.

You too. Have a good one. Take care. All right, we are back. You know, people are always stunned by how much my mom looks like me. I'm going to show you a picture. Yeah, she's so sweet. Literally, if you look at pictures of my mom

when she was a little girl, it looks like me when I was a little girl. It's pretty stunning. She looks so much like me. And I do think she is. I've said this before, but I do think my mother is probably one of the reasons I'm in comedy. She's funny in her way, in her own way, unique way.

But she's was like a perfect straight person, you know? My mother always wanted to be... She always had a little bit of a regal quality. Yes. And she wanted to be well-mannered and she was taught to be well-mannered and to sort of talk like Margaret Dumont, the woman in the Marks Brothers movies,

and sort of be like, well, okay, everybody. And if company was over, she was a little formal. And that would make me want to act like Groucho. Because she'd say, all right, now please, you know, walk this way, if you will. And I'd say, well, if I could walk that way, you know? But I'm serious. That would make me go even further.

Right. So I would say things around my mom, and she would just say, well, that's just foolish. I don't like that at all. You stop it. And most of the time I was being silly, but then I realized about 20, 15 years ago, I was talking to my mom,

and I realized that anything I said, she thought I was lying. She just assumed I was being a wise guy, even when I was telling the truth. So we were in a restaurant and we were looking at the menus, and then my mom said, puta nesca sauce, puta nesca sauce.

What is puta nesca sauce? And they said, well, it's actually, used to be favored by in poorer neighborhoods in Italy. They would just take anything that they had and they'd put it together. And it was called, puta is a woman of the night. So the translation is literally, it's the horse sauce.

Puta nesca means it's the horse sauce. And she went, stop that. That's not funny. I don't like that even fooling. And I'd say, I'm not kidding. That's when she said, tell me right now what puta nesca means. And I said, it means,

and then I would try and say it in a nicer way. It's women who maybe would walk the streets at night. I don't like this. Stop it. Just stop it. I don't like this even fooling. And that was her big thing. I don't like even fooling.

And then she would always just call me, I guess it's an old Irish saying, although I've never met an Irishman who knows this saying. She'd say, you're just being a bold stump. That's what you are. You're a bold stump. We mean I'm a bold stump.

I'm telling you what puta nesca means. It's the sauce. How old are you? At this point, I'm like 44. And I'm in a restaurant trying to convince her. And she's like, you're just being a wise guy. And sort of in this tone of like, we're going to straighten you out when we get home.

You're going to go right to your room. No, no, we're not. I drove us here. I'm getting a hip replace tomorrow. I'm a mature man. And that's what puta nesca means. It really does. I mean, look it up.

Someone validate this unless I'm... Some say the name originated in the brothels of the Spanish quarters. Hor is putana in Italian. Some say that that name originated. This is the actual definition is that puta, which was the term for women who worked in a brothel. Prostitutes.

Thank you. You could say prostitutes. You're really dancing around it. I'm not sure about puta. I know. Well, what I'm saying is I was right, and I was trying to explain to my mother in nice terms, and she was like, I don't like this.

I don't like this. And her big thing was, I don't like this even fooling. And I would say, I'm not fooling. This is your fault. Why is it my fault? You tell me things so many times that are serious, and I think the number one question I ask you all the time is, are you doing a bit?

Yeah, you're the boy who joked wolf. It's true. No one who knows you really well takes you seriously anymore. Here's something I used to do to my mother, I would say. You didn't even hear that. I know. You did it. I know, because he knows it's true.

Here's something I would say. Here's something I used to say to my mother that she really didn't like. I'd be like, you know what, Mom? I have all these brothers and sisters, and I really love them. I love Luke, and I love Kate, and I love Jane, and I really love Justin.

I just, I want to love Neil, but I just don't feel anything for him. She'd be like, I don't like this. I don't like this. You love your brother, and you want to go like, Mom, really? I wish I loved Neil. I just, there's nothing there. There's just nothing there I try, and she was like,

I don't like this. I don't like to see him fooling you're a bold stump. I'd be like, I, I, and you know, obviously I love my brother Neil, but I like this thing that like, Mom, I'm trying. I've tried for many years. He's my oldest brother, but when I try to access love, there's nothing.

There's just nothing. There's no emotion, and I have to be like, I don't like this. Now maybe you should just go upstairs and think about what you said. What is wrong with you? I don't know. You are a bold stump.

Yeah, and it seems like your mom is one of your favorite targets for this. Like you like to get her riled up. She was so good at being the straight woman, you know? Yes. What are you talking about? Now what's going on here? I really wanted to know the actual meaning of that sauce.

It is! I know, I know, I want her to know. I want her, I want her to resolve. Because she won't admit it. That's the thing about my family is nobody's going to admit anything. No one has ever said in my family, you know what, I thought about it,

and you were right, and I was wrong. It's not in our DNA. Yeah, I think we'll wear that with you. You don't do that either. Are you wearing pajama bottoms? Yes. Look at that deflection. That's what that is, Matt.

Well, I'm sorry. You look like a 1920s prisoner. When I put on shoes and dressed up for Michelle Obama, and I thought it was appropriate to dress down for Willie Nelson. I think you did the right thing. That makes sense. But yeah, that's my mom is never going to go,

you know, I looked it up, and yes, Puchinesca sauce, many believe the name does derive from the brothels in the Spanish Quarter. She's never going to say that. She's just going to stick with, I don't like it, and you're being a bold stump. That's what she's going to stick with. I like bold stump.

I remember once, I went over, we were having a big party at our house, and this is still when I'm an adult, but I come by to visit my parents, and a bunch of people are coming over in a few hours. I think one guest showed up early and was like wearing jeans or something, and my mom, who hasn't even dressed yet,

saw them in the yard and was like, they're wearing jeans. I can't believe they're wearing jeans. And my mother turned to me, and she's wearing a robe, and the robe is kind of stiff, like it's over-start, so it looks like her hair is a mess. She's wearing a robe,

and she's got this, her robe tied, and it looks like a propeller on a 1915 airplane, and it's giant, and her hair is all over the place, and she said, doesn't that person know what kind of family we are? And doesn't he know what we stand for? And then we, O'Brien's, are made of finer stuff, and I looked at her and I said,

Mom, you look like Boxcar Willie. It's like, I don't like that. I don't like that even fully. And I said, well, before you go criticize his jeans, you should go upstairs and take the propeller off. How early did that guy come? I don't know, he wasn't there that.

She just, I'm just telling you, these are stories from my past. I like to tell a yarn every now and then about the old days, the old days in Procline, Massachusetts. It really does give good insight into the person that you are, and you've become.

I think I have my good qualities. What are they? Not sure, maybe another podcast. Hey, if you want to hear my good qualities, we're going to release them, episode 28 this year. We are going to release my good qualities. Oh, you can't even come up with it.

Well, no, it's only some of these ways but this is not me not being able to come up with my good qualities. This is me using it as a promotional tool. Oh, okay. For that one podcast. Yeah, tune in, episode 28, Conan's Good Qualities. It'll be 20 seconds long.

Hey, if we can get to 20 seconds, I'm going to speak very slowly. I always get rid of loose change. That's one of them? That's it. I have to make that last 20 seconds. I always get rid of loose change. And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.

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