Consider This from NPR - A look into Trump's recent rhetoric focusing on revenge and threats

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

An NPR investigation has found more than 100 times when former president Donald Trump has said his rivals, critics and even private citizens should be investigated, prosecuted, or put in jail, or otherwise punished.So, could he act upon those threats if reelected?For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

We have two enemies. We have the outside enemy and then we have the enemy from within. And the enemy from within, in my opinion, is more dangerous than China, Russia and all these countries, because if you have a smart president, he can handle them. This is former President Trump talking to Fox's Maria Bartiromo in an interview earlier this month. The enemy from within is something that Trump talks a lot about. He doubled down on his remarks a few days later in a Foxtown hall. And it is the enemy from within, and they're very dangerous. They're Marxists and communists and fascists, and they're sick. Trump has repeated those comments about the enemy from within several times. On Fox News Sunday,

he specifically called out Democrats in Congress like Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi. These are bad people. We have a lot of bad people. But when you look at Shifty Schiff and some of the others, yeah, they are, to me, the enemy from within. I think Nancy Pelosi is an enemy from within.

And Trump told Fox earlier that if these enemies disrupt Election Day, the military should step in. And I think they're the, and it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by national guard or if really necessary, by the military. Because they can't let that happen. Consider this. Donald Trump has been running a campaign based on revenge and threats. Legal experts say that if he follows through on those threats, it could jeopardize the civil liberties of Americans.

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It's Consider This from NPR. Former President Trump says that if he wins the election in just two weeks, he will go after what he calls the enemy from within. Now, an NPR investigation has found more than 100 times when Trump has said his rivals, critics, and even private citizens should be investigated, prosecuted, or put in jail. NPR investigative correspondent Tom Dreisbach reports. Trump has made so many threats, it's helpful to break them down into categories. First, there are his political rivals. I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the United States of America, Joe Biden. And he's gone after Kamala Harris, too. She should be impeached and prosecuted for her actions. On social media, Trump has reposted calls to send former President Barack Obama and former Congresswoman Liz Cheney to military tribunals. Trump also targets the prosecutors,

even some judges involved in his criminal and civil cases. And the judge and the AG should be arrested and punished accordingly. Then there's election workers. We're going to prosecute people that cheat on this election. And if we can, we'll go back to the last one, too. And news networks and journalists who refuse to give up their sources. And if the reporter doesn't want to tell you, it's bye-bye. The reporter goes to jail.

Trump has even talked this way about private citizens, like people who criticize the Supreme Court. These people should be put in jail the way they talk about our judges and our justices trying to get them to sway their vote. Now, everything you just heard, those are just some examples of Trump's threats. We found more than 100 just since 2022 when he started preparing for this campaign. This is how autocrats cement their permanent grip on power. And this is Ian Bassin. He's with the group Protect Democracy, and he's an expert on authoritarian movements.

Now, all of Trump's threats raise a question. If he wins, could he actually tell the Justice Department to go after all of these people? And Ian Bassin said, essentially, yes. They're not really legal restrictions or even structural restrictions that would stop the president from simply directing them to go and investigate his perceived opponents. And some of Trump's allies say the president is in charge of federal law enforcement. The Justice Department is not independent.

Here's former Trump official Russell Vogt last year. Department of Justice is not an independent agency. If anyone brings it up in a policy meeting in the White House, I want them out of the meeting. Now, there are some guardrails. Judges might dismiss cases or refuse to sign off on warrants. But Bastin said a weaponized Justice Department could still do serious damage, scare people that if they criticize the president, they're next. So if Trump could do this, then the question is, would he? Trump told right-wing radio host Glenn Beck, yes, because of

the criminal indictments brought against him. The answer is you have no choice because they're doing it to us. Russell Vogt, who is also a leader of the Project 2025 plan, told NPR last year that people should trust Trump not to abuse this power. The president has a lot of power to do a lot of things. That doesn't mean that he, exercising from a standpoint of wisdom, does those things. Not all former Trump officials agree. Do you think he would follow up on those threats? I absolutely think he will follow up on those threats. Stephanie Grisham worked for Trump for six years, served as his press secretary.

She resigned from the administration over the January 6th attack on the Capitol. And I just know that once he's in office with no reason to worry about re-election and only the most fervent, loyal people surrounding him, that he will absolutely make sure his enemies pay for what he perceives to be their crimes. Partly that's because of Trump's track record from his first term in office. Jeffrey Berman was a Republican, a Trump supporter, and part of that first term. He was appointed the top federal prosecutor in Manhattan. He told WHYY's Fresh Air that Trump put political pressure on his office and ultimately fired him because he wouldn't go along. President Trump treated the Department of Justice like his

own personal law firm. The Justice Department targeted political enemies of the president and assisted political allies of the president. Take the example of Andrew McCabe. He became the acting FBI director after Trump fired James Comey. McCabe opened an investigation into whether Trump was trying to obstruct justice. Trump considered McCabe disloyal. McCabe was a moderate Republican, but Trump attacked him because his wife had once run for office as a Democrat. Just hours before McCabe was a moderate Republican, but Trump attacked him because his wife had once run for office as a Democrat. Just hours before McCabe was set to retire and receive his pension, the Trump administration fired him. And Trump stayed on the attack.

McCabe, who's a proven liar and was fired from the FBI. He really looks to me like sort of a poor man's J. Edgar Hoover. He's a bad guy. I think he's a sick guy, personally. Internal investigators at the Justice Department said McCabe, quote, lacked candor about his interactions with reporters. McCabe denies that. And then the Justice Department opened a criminal investigation. McCabe was with his wife and kids when he got the news.

It was just an incredibly sad moment and really scary for them because it was the first time that I think they had ever considered that what had been political nonsense might actually cost me my liberty. The investigation dragged on for two years. A federal judge told the prosecutors that with all the pressure from Trump, it was starting to look like something out of a, quote, banana republic. Prosecutors ultimately dropped the case. McCabe sued and won a settlement, got back his pension, his rank, and hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on lawyers.

But even today, Trump and his allies are still threatening McCabe. And McCabe, you should be worried. You should be very worried. Here's former Trump advisor Steve Bannon this summer. And you go ahead and run and run as far as you want. We're going to come and get you. And it's going to be totally constitutional and totally by the rule of law. Trump reposted Bannon's comments. What's your reaction to that? It shows you, I think, in serious terms, a persistent commitment to this idea of we are going on the revenge tour. McCabe says he and his friends who worked in government have had tough conversations about what to do if Trump wins this election. And some people are talking

about fleeing the country. I don't intend to leave my house. I don't intend to leave the country that I served for 21 years. I'm not, you know, but this kind of pits you against your children and your spouses who they just want you to be safe. As an outspoken critic of Trump, Stephanie Grisham says she's scared too. I'm definitely fearful for myself and for, you know, many of my friends who have spoken out too. I'm definitely fearful for myself and for many of my friends who have spoken out too. Are you having to make any arrangements for the possibility that he wins election? I'm trying to make sure all my own ducks are in a row, making sure that I've been doing everything right. Saving money is obviously another one of those, But it's a terrifying thought because that is literally the most powerful person in the world that knows you and wants only bad for you. She told me that the people who doubt Trump will actually follow through on these plans should just listen to what he says again and again and again. That was NPR investigative correspondent Tom Dreisbach.

This episode was produced by Monica Evstatieva and Brianna Scott. It was edited by Barry Hardiman and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. And one more thing before we go. You can now enjoy the Consider This newsletter. We still help you break down a major story of the day, but you'll also get to know our producers and hosts and some

moments of joy from the All Things Considered team. You can sign up at npr.org slash consider this newsletter. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang. Zhejiang. On Shortwave, we know the human body is this amazing singular thing, capable of facing down all kinds of infection and disease, from managing UTIs to cancer to long COVID. Our show is dedicated to destigmatizing our relationship to our bodies. Listen to the shortwave podcast from NPR. On NPR's Wildcard podcast, comedian Seth Meyers talks frankly about his early career. I was far more temperamental when I was younger, and things ran very hot at SNL. And there were definitely times where my instincts were to say something that would have been relationship-ending to people. I'm Rachel Martin. Seth Meyers is on Wildcard, the show where cards control the conversation.