Consider This from NPR - A Trumpless Debate

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

Former president Donald Trump is the frontrunner in the Republican presidential primary. And with a healthy lead in the polls, he's skipping the first Republican presidential debate on Wednesday. So how do you prep for a big, televised debate when your biggest opponent decides not to show up?That's been the question facing the eight Republicans who will be on stage in Milwaukee on Wednesday night.In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University performs breakthrough research every year, making discoveries that improve human health, combat climate change, and move society forward. More at iu.edu slash forward. The last time Republicans kicked off their debate season, Donald Trump was smack dab in the middle of it. Literally. In the center of the stage tonight, businessman Donald Trump. In that Fox News presidential primary debate and the 11 more that followed, Trump seemed to exert a gravitational force, bending the focus of the debates towards him. Try as they might, other candidates inevitably found there was no way not

to be dragged into Trump's orbit, especially after being baited with personal insults, as Jeb Bush was in this CBS debate. He's had the gall to go after my mother. The World Trade Center came down during your brother's reign. He's had the gall to go after my mother. Let me finish this. He's had the gall to go after my mother. I won the lottery when I was born 63 years ago and looked up and I saw my mom. My mom is the strongest woman I know.

This is not about my family. Or they got caught up in bickering like Ted Cruz here in another Fox News debate. Donald, please, I know it's hard not to interrupt. But it's not what you said in the op-ed. Breathe. Breathe. Breathe. You can do it. You can breathe. I know it's hard. I know it's hard. This time around, Trump looms as large as ever, dominating the polls and the conversation,

but he will not be on stage for Wednesday night's opening debate. Why would you do that when you're leading by so much? Ronald Reagan didn't do it. Nixon didn't do it. Many people didn't do it. That's Trump on Newsmax this month before he officially announced that he would skip the debate in favor of an interview with former Fox News host Tucker Carlson. That leaves the candidates who will be on stage in a tricky spot. How do you criticize someone who's not on stage? Do you go there? Especially when every new indictment seems only to strengthen the former president. I mean, who knew that being arrested would bump you up in the polls more than, say, espousing low taxes?

Republican strategist Scott Jennings. It's quite a conundrum for the rest of the candidates who want to run on policies when they're fighting off Donald Trump, who's obviously running on being a victim and a martyr. Nobody's figured out what to do about it yet, and the polls clearly show that Trump's in a dominant position. Consider this. How do you win a debate when the frontrunner doesn't show? From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It is Tuesday, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today or visit WISE.com. T's and C's apply. This message comes from Pushkin in a new episode of the Revisionist History Podcast, how a right-wing organization tried to take over the Parent Teacher Association

in the 1960s. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University is committed to moving the world forward, working to tackle some of society's biggest challenges. IU makes bold investments in the future of bioscience and cybersecurity, cultivates visionary work in the arts and humanities, and prepares students to become global citizens by teaching more languages than any other university in the country. Indiana University. Nine campuses, one purpose. Creating tomorrow, today. More at iu.edu. it's consider this from npr so how do you prep for a big televised debate when your biggest opponent decides not to show up that's been the question facing the eight republicans who will be

on stage wednesday night in milwaukee at the first gop debate for the 2024 election. And it's the question we put to veteran Republican communications strategist Alice Stewart. I began our conversation by asking how exactly the other candidates should handle Trump. It's virtually impossible to completely ignore Donald Trump because the questions will come up surrounding him and the other candidates will make references to him. So my recommendation when we're talking about how to approach this is to punch, pivot, and be appealing. You have to punch Donald Trump on the issues that are certainly relevant in this case. You have to go after him on policies that you may have a disagreement on. You may have to go after him on what he did to try and overturn the election,

which, by the way, was free and fair and certainly without widespread voter fraud and pushing back on him without alienating his voters. The second most important aspect these candidates can do is to pivot. As quickly as you can, pivot back to your message, your vision, and your strategy for securing the nomination and taking on Joe Biden. And the third most important thing they can do is to be appealing and most importantly, be likable. Voters will listen to someone that they like. To quickly follow up on a couple of points you made, one with the punch advice. These candidates are not just having to confront a frontrunner who is not there, but a frontrunner who's now been indicted in four criminal cases, and yet that seems to be helping his polling numbers, at least among Republican primary voters.

How do you handle that? Well, the most obvious attack of Donald Trump across the board is the fact that he is a loser. He lost reelection. We lost the Senate. We lost key House races as a result of Donald Trump, whether it is his name on the ballot or his endorsement for these candidates. And when you lose across the board like that, you have to use a new playbook. The easiest and most obvious attack against former President Trump is to show that his strategy and his formula is not a winning formula for a general election electorate. What you're saying sounds reasonable, and yet we have seen most of the GOP candidates not punching, not going on the attack in any way against Trump. Well, you know, what we're seeing, the most recent issue with Donald Trump is these four indictments and each of them separately. A lot of the candidates are being very cautious to push back too much because there's a large part of Republicans that believe that this is a weaponization of politics. They believe this is a two-tiered

justice system. They believe this is an overreach by the DOJ. I happen to strongly disagree with that ideology and mindset, but many Republicans believe that. And these candidates understand if they want to appeal to Republican voters, they have to, in some way, embrace that mindset and that thought in order to keep those people interested and the rest of their platform running for president. I mentioned you have worked on presidential campaigns before, including for Republican Senator Ted Cruz. And I want to ask about a moment from another debate. This was also a Fox News debate, but this is back in 2016.

It was right before the Iowa caucuses. Trump also skipped this debate. And here is part of how Senator Cruz handled that in his opening statement. Let me say, I'm a maniac. And everyone on this stage is stupid, fat, and ugly. And Ben, you're a terrible surgeon. Now that we've gotten the Donald Trump portion out of the way. So a nod there to Trump's well-documented tendency to insult both his opponents and moderators.

Can you imagine, Alice Stewart, any of the candidates this year taking a similar approach? Look, I'm glad to hear that comment. And it brings back, I don't know if it's good or frightening memories of the fierce debate prep that we did for each of those debates. But it's good to handle this with humor. And what we've already seen the last several days is them pushing back on the former president for not showing up. And here's the thing, Mayor Louise, you cannot go out and flex your muscles before you get to the debate stage and wimp out on the stage. So what they have been saying, going after Donald Trump for avoiding this debate, they have to say that on the stage or it's going to really come back to haunt them because you have to be consistent. And trust me, I'll put money on the fact that Chris Christie will be one of the first, if not the first person to throw that punch. And what about Governor DeSantis? What does he need to do at this debate in Milwaukee? Well, first off, go up there understanding that a lot of arrows will be directed directly at him.

And I've spoken with his team and I know who's doing his debate prep, and they're top-notch, and they're ready for that, to receive incoming. Does he need to attack Trump? On the record of accomplishment and electability, absolutely, because that is something that he actually has the ability to do so. And if any of these candidates have an opening on whether it is electability or how they are having a tremendous impact on the confidence in our election process, they need to take that opportunity. Big picture. What is the point of a debate where the front runner does not show? I mean, at a certain level, does this become an exercise in futility? No, we're five months out. So much can happen between now and the Iowa caucus and certainly

the New Hampshire primary. Anything can happen. And here's the thing that we often say about specifically Iowa, that the purpose of these debates and ultimately the Iowa caucus is not to choose the party nominee, it's to winnow the field. And what's going to happen is a lot of these candidates will take this debate as a time to shine, and some of them it won't be quite as favorable. And what this will do is narrow the field down to a top two or three. And that's what is the best for this primary. We've got a long runway between now and the Iowa caucus. Anything can happen to the former president.

But all of these candidates need the opportunity to make their case to the Republican voters and general election voters ultimately. Longtime Republican strategist and CNN political commentator Alice Stewart. Now, as she alluded to, Republicans not named Trump are in a tough spot. They have to make their case to replace the former president without alienating his supporters. NPR's Don Gagne has been stopping by candidate events in Iowa to hear how the earliest Republican voters are thinking about the field. GOP presidential hopeful Tim Scott can be seen as a prime example of why challengers to Donald Trump aren't getting much traction. At the Iowa State Fair, the South Carolina senator held a brief Q&A with reporters who wanted his reaction to the latest criminal indictment of the frontrunner.

Scott's response could have been scripted by the Trump campaign. We see the legal system being weaponized against political opponents that is un-American and unacceptable. At the end of the day, we need a better system than that. And I frankly hope to be the president of the United States where we have an opportunity to restore confidence and integrity in all of our departments of justice. Similar answers have come from the vast majority of GOP hopefuls, with just a few exceptions. There's former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, whose entire campaign has been about calling Trump unfit. Christie, however, isn't even bothering to compete in Iowa. That leaves former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson as one of the few candidates willing to speak out against Trump in the state.

I said a year ago that Donald Trump is disqualified from being president of the United States as a result of his actions. He's morally responsible. Now we'll see if he's criminally responsible. That's a question for the law and for the jury. But even now, with four Trump indictments, a new Iowa poll from the Des Moines Register, NBC News, and Mediacom has Trump still leading significantly. Challenger Ron DeSantis, the Florida governor, is more than 20 points behind. Tim Scott is in third with less than 10 percent. Asa Hutchinson, meanwhile, is among a group of candidates, each polling at zero in Iowa. Still, Trump does fall well below 50 percent of the vote, a fact that may, may leave an opening for another candidate. And voters who are looking for just that are actually not that hard to find.

Take 51-year-old Ardeen Shill of Marion, Iowa. He's a conservative who voted for Trump in the past two elections. This time? I think it's time for a change. Okay, explain. It's time to bring the country back together. I don't think he's the individual that can bring this country back together. His wife, Katie Schill, agrees, but makes it clear she's not condemning Trump, even as she looks for a new candidate. Same question to you. You voted for Trump? I did. But you're not there now? No, no. He's not someone that can bring everybody back together. And not only that, there's too many attacks on him. He can't focus on what he needs to do. Both say they like Trump's policies as president,

but they're still making up their mind regarding the Republican field. Don Garnier, NPR News. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.