Consider This from NPR - America's air traffic control problem

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

Newark Liberty International Airport has been a mess the past week, with hundreds of flights cancelled and hundreds more delayed. It was triggered in part by an incident on April 28, when air traffic controllers for the airport experienced a radar and communications blackout. They were unable to reach approaching planes. There were no accidents, and Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy later told reporters that the outage lasted for 30 seconds. After that incident, several air traffic controllers took time off to deal with the stress and trauma. That, on top of bad weather, a runway that's closed for repair and an already short-staffed air traffic controller corps, led to a lot of disruption.David Grizzle, the former chief operating officer and head of air traffic control for the Federal Aviation Administration, says what happened at Newark isn't surprising, given decades-old staffing and technology issues. He explains what it would take to fix air traffic control in the U.S.For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hopefully you haven't had to fly out of Newark Airport in the past week. If you have, you know it's been a mess. Hundreds of flights canceled, hundreds more delayed. All this kicked off in part because of what happened on April 28th. Air traffic control lost all radar and communications with planes. The website LiveATC.net captured the harrowing silence. As planes tried to reach the controllers, it was archived by Fox Business. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy later told the press that the communications blackout

lasted 30 seconds. There were no accidents, but several air traffic controllers took time off to deal with the stress and trauma of that experience. Add to that bad weather, a runway that's closed for repair, and an already short-staffed air traffic controller core, and you get a whole lot of delays. Now this problem didn't come out of nowhere. Here's United CEO Scott Kirby on NPR in December. For the whole month in November, we had over half a million customers that were delayed because of air traffic control shortfalls in Newark alone.

And it's not just Newark, the air traffic controller shortage is nationwide. And the technical systems that many controllers use are decades old. Here's Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois at a Senate hearing focused on the issue back in 2023. Our nation is experiencing an aviation safety crisis. Mere misses are happening way too frequently and I refuse to be complacent in waiting to act until the next runway incursion

becomes a fatal collision. Secretary Duffy told reporters on Tuesday he has a plan to address this, but it's not an instant fix. The question is, can I do something more quickly to train controllers? And the answer is no. This all takes time. You can't snap your fingers and have really complicated air spaces, you know, where I can stand up controllers who understand it. And so all of this is going to take time. Consider this. This year, we've seen the catastrophic collision

between an Army helicopter and a passenger jet, multiple near misses since, and now this Newark incident. What's going on with air traffic control? From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. It's Consider This from NPR. David Grizzle knows America's air traffic control system well. He used to run it. Grizzle was the chief operating officer and head of air traffic control for the Federal

Aviation Administration during the Obama administration. I wanted to know what he makes of the incident at Newark and what it reveals about air safety in the U.S. more broadly. When you first heard about this breakdown, were you surprised or did you think it was only a matter of time until something like this was going to happen? Something like this had already happened, not with the same severe effects, but the technology lapse that occurred had occurred before and had been forecasted. And yet that didn't lead to an upgrade. It didn't lead to a fix of the problem. Why not? They're in the process of replacing the entire telecommunication system. But in between now and

when the replacement is completed, there is the need for, they're called patches, which are software and hardware fixes that enable the old system to communicate in a manner that modern telco lines can understand. And that patch process has been underfunded for a number of years. We're talking about old outdated systems, but can you describe them for us? How old are they? Most of the telecommunication system is the very best technology of the 1980s. And like so much of the equipment that exists in the FAA, it is quite old, it's decades out of date. And when it was replaced,

it was also replacing technology that was itself decades out of date. And so that's part of the problem is that the FAA is in a loop where it only does big technology projects every 30 or 40 years, which means that when they are actually delivered, they're already out of date. I'm just trying to imagine using a phone from the 1980s or a car from the 1980s, the gap between that technology and the present day is so wide, it is incredible that thousands of Americans

fly every single day, putting their life and safety in the hands of technology that is that old and out of date. It is in fact that old and out of date, Ari. Well, there's that whole set of technology problems, but then there's also the challenge of personnel. Are there enough trained air traffic controllers to do the job of this size that we have today? No, Ari, there are not.

We are short several thousand controllers, and even at the pace of hiring that we are undertaking right now, we will not be able to keep up with retirements and attrition unless we make further changes both to the hiring process and to the training technology which prepares new hires to become controllers. And does the shortage exacerbate the shortage because when you don't have enough

people and you don't have enough trainers, it's harder to get the people and train up the folks you need? You're exactly right. When you're short of staff in the facilities, it's very hard to pull people off of directing traffic airplanes in order to do on-the-job training, which is an essential component of preparing a controller to actually be able to direct traffic themselves. So it is, in fact, a self-exacerbating problem. Let's talk about how we got to this point because the current transportation secretary Sean Duffy blamed the Biden administration. It's also been pointed out that President Trump cut

FAA staff earlier this year. Who do you hold accountable? Let me say first of all that I've been involved in the airline industry for over 40 years and I have never seen a secretary more intensely engaged in aviation than what Secretary Duffy is. And so I have a lot of optimism based on that. But going back to your question, Ari, this problem is decades in the making. The FAA, the air traffic control system,

has been underfunded for decades, and the core underfunding status is exacerbated by these government shutdowns and threatened government shutdowns, which seem to be occurring almost on an annual basis now. And each of those interrupts the program development that had been funded. And so we're not getting our full money's worth even for what is appropriated because of all of the interruptions in the funding. If you had a blank check, would you be able to fix this?

Is it just a matter of money? It is not entirely a matter of money. We also need to change the procurement process. Because any private sector company does not replace its technology in large bundles every 40 years. It is constantly engaged in a process of iterative and repetitive technology

renewal and that's the way you keep a high-tech business in a state-of-the-art situation and unfortunately that type of acquisition program is not supported by the federal procurement system. I guess the bottom line question is should Americans feel safe flying right now? Ari, I would not hesitate to fly anytime, anywhere with my grandchildren. The system is safe. And at the same time, safety is not a line in the sand, which you're either on one side of or the other. Safety is a process. And the system is very safe.

And at the same time, the margin of safety is narrower than what it was 10 years ago. That's David Grizzle, former COO and head of air traffic control for the Federal Aviation Administration. Thank you for talking with us. Thank you, Ari. This episode was produced by Alejandro Marquez-Honse, Connor Donovan, and Noah Caldwell. It was edited by William Troup. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.