Consider This from NPR - America's place in the world during a second Trump term

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Confirmation hearings for Trump's cabinet picks are in full swing on Capitol Hill with a number of them appearing before the Senate this week.Nominees including Pam Bondi, Trump's pick to run the Justice Department, John Ratcliffe, his pick to run the CIA, and Florida Senator Marco Rubio Trump's nominee for Secretary of State have all answered questions about what they'll do and what they won't do if confirmed.Rubio and Ratcliffe will play key foreign policy roles under the 47th president.Those are the people, but what do they tell us about the policy?For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.orgEmail us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

In some ways, the hearings this week could not have been more different. President-elect Trump's nominee to lead the Defense Department, Pete Hegseth, faced an uncertain fate heading into his confirmation hearing. Democrats unleashed a litany of aggressive questions about his lack of experience, his criticism of women in combat roles, and allegations, which he denied, of alcohol abuse and sexual assault. Here's Arizona Democrat Senator Mark Kelly. I'm just asking for true or false answers. An event in North Carolina, drunk in front of three young female staff members after

you had instituted a no alcohol policy and then reversed it. True or false? Anonymous smears. December of 2014 at the CVA Christmas party at the Grand Hyatt at Washington DC, you were noticeably intoxicated and had to be carried up to your room. Is that true or false? Anonymous smears. Trump's Secretary of State nominee Marco Rubio was a more conventional pick and his hearing with his former colleagues in the Senate was more conventional.

Let me just say it's a bit surreal to be on this side of the room, but you all look very distinguished. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there were through lines connecting the hearings. For one, both nominees look almost certain to be confirmed by the Senate. Yes, including Hegseth. He won crucial approval from Iowa Republican Joni Ernst. She went on news radio 1040WHO out of Des Moines

after the hearing. I will be supporting President Trump's pick for Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth. Another common thread, each nominee emphasized that the president himself, Trump, would be making the big calls. Here's Hegseth answering a question from Senator Mazie Hirono, Democrat from Hawaii. Current DOD policy allows service members and eligible dependents to be reimbursed for travel associated with non-covered reproductive health care, including abortions.

Will you maintain this common sense policy? Senator, I've always been personally pro-life. I know President Trump has as well, and we will review all policies, but our standard is whatever the president wants on this particular issue. Okay, so, if the president... And here's Rubio.

Well, let me say first, the foreign policy of the United States will be set by the president, and my job is to advise on it and ultimately to execute. Consider this, the president sets the agenda when it comes to national security and foreign relations, but what do his cabinet picks tell us about his policy? From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. The It's Consider This from NPR. We're still a few days before Trump takes office, but this week's blitz of Senate confirmation hearings does give us a window into how his cabinet picks may lead their departments, and also

into how Trump may govern. That is certainly true of foreign policy and national security. And to help unpack what we've seen, I talked to two former national security officials, starting with Victoria Coats, former deputy national security advisor in the first Trump administration, now vice president of national security and foreign policy at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. Victoria Coats, welcome. Victoria Coats Good to be with you. Sarah Pletka First question, do you see a unifying philosophy across the Trump national security team? I'm asking because there seems to be such a wide

range of views on display. You can look at Tulsi Gabbard, who's up for director of national intelligence, who has criticized US military action abroad, has been sympathetic to US adversaries, including Vladimir Putin. On the other hand, you have Marco Rubio, who's been super hawkish on Russia, China and others. No, I think you're absolutely accurate. There is a range of strong voices, which is what President Trump expects. And so he respects Tulsi Gabbard's position, for example, on surveillance, on asking hard questions of our intelligence community, challenging their assumptions, because we've had some pretty catastrophic intelligence failures over the last couple of years, from Afghanistan to Ukraine to October 7th in Israel.

So I think he wants that voice in the room. And he also strongly respects Senator Rubio, who has said in his confirmation hearing, as well as other places, that he has his views, but he follows the president's policy. Danielle Pletka How different might we expect Trump's foreign policy to look from President Biden's? I mean, there are areas of what appear to be potential great overlap and aggressive posture towards China, for example, or unwavering military support toward Israel. I think that China is probably the unifying factor. And so I do expect that will be the same.

I think that we will see the Trump administration be somewhat more aggressive. What about Ukraine? How big a break do you anticipate there in terms of US aid to Ukraine? How much and how long it may continue? I think President Trump has signaled through his meetings with President Zelensky, both in New York and in Paris, that he is open to continuing some military aid to Ukraine, but that his priority is going to be ending this war. And so that's why he appointed Keith Kellogg, who is a close colleague of mine during the first term, is very close to the president, speaks for him. I think it will be a very powerful negotiator to run that effort.

An idea that we did not hear during this last four years under President Biden. Trump has toyed aloud with the idea of taking control of Greenland, of the Panama Canal. He has now ruled out that he might use military force to do that. How seriously do you take that proposal? I take the President-elect's concerns about what we're seeing in terms of Chinese incursions, both on Greenland where they are trying to establish a development toehold and around on both sides of the Panama Canal. And I think the president-elect rightly has a big problem

with that. And I think he is signaling to the government of Denmark and the government of Panama that this needs to end. He is the kind of person who puts everything on the table and nothing on the table. So of course he's not gonna rule anything out, but I think he is sending a very clear signal that these Chinese incursions in our hemisphere have to end. Last question, when Biden came to office,

the headline for his foreign policy was America is back. His implication being in his view, America had exited the global stage during the Trump years. What might be the headline for Trump's second term? Victoria Koats I think the headline for Trump's second term is peace through strength. He wants to get to peace deals. He will not do anything to get to a peace deal. However, he wants to get there through strength and that American strength is back. And that's what to my eye has been lacking. Victoria Coats. Thank you. Thank

you very much. Victoria Coats of the Heritage Foundation. She's former deputy national security advisor to Donald Trump. We're going to put some of these same questions now to Leon Panetta, who served several democratic administrations, most recently as CIA Director and Defense Secretary for President Obama. Secretary, welcome back. Secretary John B. Bollinger Good to be with you. Lyle D. Bollinger Do you see a unifying philosophy in the Trump national security team beyond loyalty to Trump himself?

Any kind of philosophy that might shed light on where his foreign policy priorities will be in the second term? Secretary John B. Bollinger Well, you know, it's a question that I'm not sure we have an answer to at this point. I think it can go in one of two directions. One is that it could be a repeat of the kind of chaotic approach to foreign policy that happened in the first term, or it could be if he really follows through on what he said during the campaign that he really wants to promote peace through strength, then I think

it could be a much more effective approach to what is clearly a dangerous world. Danielle Pletka Are there specific things you will be looking at as you try to answer that question? 06. Yeah, I think first of all, he does have to improve the strength of the country. Looking at various investments that can ensure that our defense is the strongest on the face of the earth is very important because almost anything he does in foreign policy must reflect that strength first and foremost. And that there

is an effort to continue to support Ukraine in its fight so that they can ultimately try to negotiate some kind of settlement to that war. How he approaches that will tell us a lot. How seriously do you take the idea of taking over Greenland or the Panama Canal? Well, you know, that's the kind of thing that tells me that he could get off on the wrong foot with all of the danger points that are in the world to then raise the issue of whether or not we ought to take over Greenland or the Panama Canal or Canada just seems to me to undermine his credibility because it's not going to happen. So what do you make of peace through strength, which as we just heard is what Victoria Coats

thinks will be Trump's mantra going in for foreign policy. Do you agree? I hope he does embrace peace through strength. And more importantly, I hope he embraces Reagan's definition. The strength of America's allies are vital to the United States. So that combination of being involved, providing world leadership, and building a strong alliance with our friends to try to help us confront this dangerous world. That's what Reagan would do and I hope that's what Trump does.

Leon Panetta, who served in many roles during his years in Washington, landing as Secretary of Defense under President Obama. Leon Panetta, thank you. Thank you. This episode was produced by Connor Donovan. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.