Consider This from NPR - Are we entering a #MeToo reckoning for the music industry?

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

When Sean "Diddy" Combs sang about being a bad boy in his 2001 hit, the lyrics were a mission statement and a boast. But today, the lyrics might sound more like a warning, as dozens of allegations of sexual abuse, sex trafficking, racketeering and rape are piling up against the music mogul.The #MeToo movement quickly gained prominence in the film and media worlds in 2017. Why has it taken the music industry so long to follow suit?For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

We ain't going nowhere. We ain't going nowhere. We can't stop now. This is bad boy for life. When Sean Diddy Combs said those words in a 2001 hit, they were a mission statement, a boast. But today, those lyrics might sound more like a warning. The disturbing new video appears to support some of the accusations of abuse against music mogul Sean Diddy Combs. American music mogul Sean Diddy Combs has been charged with sex trafficking and racketeering. Another woman has come forward with heinous allegations of rape and sexual assault. In fact, there are dozens of allegations dating as far back as the 90s. Combs, long one of the most powerful forces in popular music, has now become associated with names like Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby.

Successful men accused of using their power to abuse others. Thyla Graves, one of Combs' accusers, spoke about that abuse this week. It goes beyond just physical harm caused by and during the assault. It's a pain that reaches into your very core of who you are and leaving emotional scars that may never fool you. Many people are wondering, what took so long? Consider this. The Me Too movement, which forced a reckoning in Hollywood and the media, hasn't yet had the same impact in the music industry.

Could the charges against Sean Combs be the beginning? From NPR, I'm Elsa Chang. It's Consider This from NPR. Today, music mogul Sean Combs sits in a jail cell facing federal charges of sex trafficking and racketeering conspiracy. He has pleaded not guilty. On Wednesday, he was accused of rape in another lawsuit, and Pierce Sidney Madden has been following the case. There are now more than 10 civil suits filed against Combs,

alleging violence and sexual abuse. And when he was arrested last week on the federal charges, the big linchpin in the U.S. Attorney's Office case was that Combs had been running his record label all these years as a sex trafficking criminal enterprise. And they asserted how employees would collude, conceal, and sometimes participate in sexual abuse with Combs. Combs is the biggest name in the music industry to date to potentially face legal repercussions for alleged abuse. We wanted to dig deeper into what Combs' fall from grace could mean for the industry. So we called Naima Cochran. She's a music journalist and former music label executive.

And I started our conversation by asking her how she felt about the allegations against Combs. It's shocking that we're in this moment, but I believe the allegations. It is shocking to see such a drastic fall from grace, even given knowing his personality type, even with rumors, even knowing that there was an escalation of behavior over the years. It's still just very shocking to see somebody who was so pivotal to the culture and who did so much for culture, for entertainment, for music, blemish their legacy like this and just be capable of such absolutely reprehensible behavior. Well, I want to move beyond Sean Combs and talk about the music industry as a whole. Sure. Because the Me Too movement, you know, it touched Hollywood, politics, the media. But even after R. Kelly's indictment and guilty verdict, it seems like the music industry

hasn't yet had a similarly large reckoning the way Hollywood did or the media world did. Why do you think that is? I think it's kind of multifold. One thing is that some of the whistleblowers in Hollywood have been very credible people, like high-level actors and actresses, who have talked about their experiences as opposed to other, and then maybe executives and staff followed, right? Okay.

It would potentially take, similar to a Cassie, right, who is an artist and a celebrity, as opposed to Drew Dixon, who levied allegations against Russell Simmons and who was an executive. You're saying that the survivors or many of the survivors in the music industry just haven't been famous enough. Correct. I think the voice matters. And I think when a name, someone with a name and a platform and a following is the person to call something out, then people pay closer attention than when it's someone who they don't know or don't know of, and they don't know who this person is. And I think it's much easier to dismiss that as, oh, they're bitter or they didn't get a promotion or they didn't. Because the other reality is also

as much as people hate to admit this to themselves, I think that far too many humans still, especially those of us who are a little older, maybe like Xers and older because we just grew up, we just came up in a different culture. Our instinct is still to like try to figure out an angle in which maybe the victims are blowing things out of proportion. Interesting. That's interesting that you bring that up because back in 2021, you wrote about the R. Kelly guilty verdict. And you said back then that, quote, in Black music specifically, there's still a strong resistance to speaking out against or abandoning established figures, regardless of the accusations. Talk more about that. Why? Well, again, I think when we're talking about anything that has to do with a level of Black success, Black wealth generation,

something that has allowed Black people to kind of change our circumstance, change our perception in the world, giving us any kind of modicum of influence and power, there still is a real hesitancy to strip that away, right? Even if maintaining the facade is to the detriment of some of us. Second to that, secondary to that, beyond just Black culture and community in general, there has, you know, let's say commercial entertainment is 100 years old, right? 120 years old. For the majority of that time, talent and money come with exception to social norms. And, you know, the music industry, especially what was the tagline for the music industry for song, sex, drugs, rock and roll, you know, it there, people expected norms to be subverted in these spaces, bringing it back to Black music and hip-hop. We are talking about a group of people who overwhelmingly got great positions of power and a lot of money and a lot of access at a very young age. And there was no, you know, maybe there was a mentor that came along, but there was no handbook. There was no guidebook. There was no HR training for the CEO. You know,

like that wasn't a thing. So what I do think though, that the Me Too movement has done as far as music is changed, it has shifted the current norms of what's acceptable and what's unacceptable. Well, there is still the question about what do you do around impact and legacy? Like these are the same questions that came up about R. Kelly. They're coming up now about Sean Combs. for so long is how do you change the environment in the music industry that allowed people like R. Kelly and now allegedly Sean Combs to carry out their crimes? Like as a veteran of the music industry, what does that new culture look like to you and how do you get there? Is it possible? I think it's possible. I don't know that entertainment spaces, spaces that cultivate unique talents and a certain level of creative genius and a certain level of boldness will ever be completely safe spaces because, I mean, if you look at a lineage of very great artists,

whether you're talking about music or writing, journalism, book publishing, movies, directors, producers, actors, whatever it is, go all the way back to Van Gogh cutting off his ear and sending it to some woman. That's harassment, right? you know what I mean like you look at our great artists like tortured artist is a is a trope for a reason I I believe that it just due to the nature of who these people are and also there's certain traits right that cross over with the people who can make it in these worlds that lead me to believe that you will never be able to have a completely safe and healthy and functional operation in these spaces unless you sanitize these spaces to the point where you don't have the things that make them what they are

anymore. God, that's bleak, Naima. It's very bleak. It's very, I'm going to admit it is bleak and people are going to be like, oh, that's so defeatist. I am not saying that we don't still strive towards changing norms. I think that we are on a path towards it being more normal to call out bad behavior, to try to rein it in early, to say that's not okay here.

So I'm not saying they are going to continue to be spaces that are rampant with dysfunction. I just think there will always be some dysfunction. Naima Cochran is a music journalist and former music label executive. Thank you so much

for sharing your thoughts with us. Thank you for having me. This episode was produced by Mark Rivers with audio engineering by Neil Tewalt. It was edited by Courtney Dornan. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

Thanks to our Consider This Plus listeners who support the work of NPR journalists and help keep public radio strong. Supporters also hear every episode without messages from sponsors. Learn more at plus.npr.org. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang.