Consider This from NPR - BONUS: Venezuela's Rise and Fall

Episode Date: August 29, 2021

Venezuela is facing an economic and humanitarian crisis as extreme poverty and violence have forced many to flee the country in recent years. How did a country once wealthy with oil resources fall into such turmoil?Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for NPR and the following message come from Carnegie Corporation of New York, working to reduce political polarization through philanthropic support for education, democracy, and peace. More information at carnegie.org. Hey, Consider This listeners, it's Audie Cornish, and we have a weekend bonus episode for you. It asks the question, how does a regime change alter the social fabric of a country? In recent years, Venezuela has faced a political, economic, and humanitarian crisis. And that's still the case

today, as more than 5 million people have fled the country due to extreme poverty. How did such a once prosperous and oil-rich nation end up in this situation? Well, our friends at NPR's History Podcast ThruLine will walk you through what happened and how two leaders, Hugo Chavez and Simón Bolívar, shaped the Venezuela of today. Host Rund Abdel Fattah and Ramtin Arablui will take it from here. En cuanto a la heroica y des and hapless Venezuela, events there have moved so rapidly, and the devastation has been such

that it is reduced to frightful desolation and almost absolute indigence. Nevertheless, it was once among the fairest regions that are the pride of America. Simón Bolívar, September 6, 1815. Hey everyone, it's Ramteen. And run this week, the story of two leaders in Venezuela separated by nearly two centuries who shaped the country into what it is today. When this episode was first released, Venezuela was facing an economic and humanitarian crisis.

That remains true today. And it's gotten so bad that more than 5 million people have fled the country in recent years to escape extreme poverty. But the thing is, Venezuela was once one of the richest countries in South America. So the question becomes, how did such a prosperous nation end up here? When we looked into this, it quickly became clear that Venezuela's problems began way before the current leader, Nicolas Maduro. It goes back to Maduro's predecessor, Hugo Chavez. What happened with Maduro cannot be isolated from what happens under Hugo Chavez. Populist politics, socialism, and his own personality cult would blow torch rhetoric. May be gone, but Hugo Chavez is far from forgotten.

Chavez created the regime that Maduro is now struggling to control. So to understand Maduro, you have to understand Chavez. But you can always go deeper, right? Like, what motivated Chavez? Well, the answer to that question takes us back to when Venezuela was created and a man named Simón Bolívar, or as he's become known across South America, El Libertador. Their stories, Chávez and Bolívar, and the rise and fall of the Venezuela they ruled

over are strikingly similar. And they offer a window into the soul of a country that's been in a revolutionary cycle for centuries now. So today we present a split screen of sorts and travel back and forth through time between Bolivar's almost mythical story and Chavez's use of that powerful story to make his own. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today, or visit WISE.com. T's and C's apply.

Part 1. Rise of the Phoenix. Some believe that on his deathbed in 1830, Simon Bolivar's final words were, Damn it. How will I ever get out of this labyrinth? In the early hours of July 16, 2010, at the northern edge of the old town of Caracas, Venezuela's capital, Hugo Chavez set out to free Bolívar from what Chavez had, in the past, called lies. They tell us that Bolívar left government because he was sick with tuberculosis. Lies, lies, a thousand lies.

Chavez suspected foul play and wanted to check for himself whether Bolivar actually died from tuberculosis or something more sinister, like poison. So he decided to exhume the body of Bolivar. And there's a whole lot of theater built around this moment. Journalist Rory Carroll was there to witness it. I was the Guardian's Latin America correspondent from 2006 until 2012, based in Caracas, Venezuela. And all this being recorded live. On national television. People were glued to the TV because this had been built up as the moment when the Bolivarian Revolution reconnects with its namesake beyond symbolism, that this is where the two bodies,

the political body and the actual body of the revolutionary leader here and the revolutionary leader then, are going to connect. This is Alejandro Velasco. He grew up in Venezuela and is now an associate professor of history at New York University. So with the country looking on, the entourage of politicians, soldiers, and scientists arrives at the National Pantheon. Decked out in white lab coats, hairnets, and ventilation masks, they enter a room with a casket in the middle. A handful of them then step towards the casket and lift up the lid. A Venezuelan flag covers

the remains. After neatly folding up the flag, they remove the final layer. And there it is. A skeleton. The skeleton. Of Simón Bolívar. Chávez looks into the camera and you can tell that there's a physical reaction of goosebumps, call it, something happening there. And he's giving the live commentary as the workers are digging up the crypt. And then his voice goes into this weird kind of like hush.

And here we are with Bolivar, the spirit of Bolivar. Feeling the spirit of Bolivar sort of creeping into him. He was hamming it up so much. I mean, it was funny, but it was surreal. It was creepy. The coming of the liberator back into a certain kind of life. Forget the Truman show.

This was the Hugo Chavez show. Un hecho único que nos define como latinoamericanos. El cráneo del libertador. Que Bolivvar también significa. Uno de los hombres más grandes de la historia. But as a Venezuelan, as somebody who grew up in Venezuela, and, you know, had Bolívar's stories, field trips to Bolívar's childhood home,

going to the sites of Bolívar's battles in Venezuela, I couldn't help but be also moved by that moment. Sure, it was really good political theater, but scientifically, it was inconclusive. After the cameras were turned off, they packed Bolivar back up, and Chavez excitedly tweeted, yes, tweeted to the world,

My God, my God, I confess we have cried, we have sworn. This glorious skeleton must be Bolivar, because you can feel his ardor. Rise up, Simon, as it's not time to die. Immediately, I remembered that Bolivar lives. It's 1803, and a young Simón Bolívar stands at his wife's deathbed, looking at her for the last time, the love of his life, María Teresa. What happens that day in 1803 would change Bolívar's life in South America forever. But first, let's go back to the beginning, to where his story started. Bolívar grew up in Caracas, in a really wealthy family.

One of the richest families in Latin America. It owned tobacco fields, it owned indigo fields. And they also owned slaves. Despite that massive wealth, Bolivar's early years weren't all that easy. His father died when he was very young. His mother died not long after that. So by age nine... He was an orphan.

This is Marie Arana. She's written a bunch of books on Latin America, including the biography Bolivar, American Liberator. So Bolivar, now orphaned, was passed around from relative to relative. He was naughty. He didn't like the company of the aristocrats. He'd rather play in the fields with the slaves, and he did. He was basically rootless, really, until one of his uncles said, well, okay, let's send you to Madrid so you can get some manners.

He goes to Madrid, and it's there that he meets his future wife, Maria Teresa. Like Bolivar, she also came from an aristocratic family, and in the way that these things happened at the time, it wasn't so much that it was prearranged, but that they were part of a Criollo elite. Criollo is a term for people of mixed European and Afro-Caribbean descent. Both Bolivar and Maria Teresa were from the upper class, so they rolled in the same social circles. And they sprung a romance that, by all accounts, was very genuine. They got married.

Returned to Venezuela, settled into a life on Bolivar's family plantation, and began the rest of their life together. All in all, they were happy. But less than a year after their wedding, she became ill. I can't remember exactly what. With yellow fever. That's right, yellow fever. But it struck her very rapidly. And so she died very quickly after. Bolivar was left devastated. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, he was destroyed. Some historians believe if Maria Teresa had not died, Bolivar might never have gotten involved in the fight for independence. Bolivar himself said...

He said, you know, if she hadn't died, he would have been a very successful landowner. He would have, you know, potted around his properties and, you know, had children and had a very, very much the same sort of life that his father and his grandparents and his great grandparents had had. A relatively quiet life in the country. But having just lost his wife, Bolivar began to search for a new purpose in life. So fast forward a few years. Bolivar is now in Paris, still depressed over the loss of his wife, still searching for a clear path forward. Drinking a lot, womanizing.

And while there, he witnessed a rebellious fervor taking over France. This was the era of the French Revolution, of Napoleon, of liberty, equality, and fraternity. Meanwhile, the fight for independence was ramping up in Venezuela. At that time, Venezuela and most of South America was still a colony of the Spanish Empire. The coincidence of history and personal tragedy and larger history is significant because this was also right around the time that Francisco de Miranda, who was the principal architect of a vision of liberation for Venezuela, was trying desperately to rile up the Criollo elite to declare independence. And keep in mind, Bolivar was from one of the most elite families in Venezuela. Eventually, he decides to team up with Francisco de Miranda. But initially, Bolivar is not all that central to this movement.

His initial role was primarily as the scion of a C criollo elite family, very much on the sidelines. Basically, he has money, and his presence is good PR for the movement. In 1810, Bolivar's status suddenly changes. He and Miranda stage an uprising against the Spanish, and catching the Spanish off guard, take Caracas. Venezuela formally declares independence in 1811. But then, in 1812, a massive earthquake hits Venezuela, and Spanish priests convince a superstitious population that the earthquake was divine retribution. So the Spanish are able to rally their troops, recapture important ports, and take back control of the country. Amid all this chaos, something unexpected happens. Bolívar, along with a few rebel generals,

figure out that Miranda has been trying to broker a deal with the Spanish to end the war, effectively undermining the revolution. Disgusted by this betrayal, Bolivar decides that they should hand Miranda over to the Spanish. And in exchange, the Spanish agreed to let Bolivar go. But he's banished from Venezuela and sent into exile. The revolution has been shut down for the moment. But by singling him out, the Spanish helped manufacture a new image of Bolívar as the natural replacement for Miranda. Here's this tiny man. He weighed all of 120 pounds. He had no chest to speak of. He was spindly. In a sort of accident of history, this guy is now the face of the revolution.

But it turns out Bolívar actually had the traits of a serious leader. He would walk into a room and larger, taller people would be dwarfed really by his presence because he was so dynamic, friendly, the sort of warm personality that inspired people. After this first failed revolution, Bolivar is no longer on the sidelines. He's now at the center of the movement. And there, his desire for change will only intensify. February the 4th, 1992, and normal programming on Venezuelan TV was interrupted by this unfolding story. It's 1992.

A press conference is announced very hastily. TV crews with microphones get in position. And then... Out comes the president. Carlos Andres Perez, followed by the minister of defense. And then this man, who none of us knew. And the president said, this is Lieutenant Colonel Chavez. He has some words.

And then he spoke for two minutes. Two minutes. Actually, a little less than two minutes. Point is, not a long time. Before I tell you what Chavez said in that speech, let me first explain how he ended up there, in roughly two minutes. So Chavez was born in 1954 in a part of Venezuela called Los Llanos. The equivalent of the U.S. kind of wild west of these big rolling plains.

One of six kids. They were very, very poor. Raised mostly by his grandmother, he was mestizo, mixed race, with African and indigenous roots. And by all accounts, a happy, outgoing kid with a wild imagination. Imbibing the legends of headless horsemen,

of love stories, of the cowboys, of the plains. He had dreams of becoming a professional baseball player until reality set in. In his early 20s, Chavez joined the Venezuelan army, one of the fastest ways to move up the social ladder. While there, he got inspired by some leftist Latin American generals who took a more reform approach to their societies in contrast with the right-wing military dictatorships in much of Latin America. Above all, he was inspired by one guy, Simón Bolívar. I'll talk about that. We want to wait a minute because there's a police siren going by.

By the way, this is Jennifer McCoy. She's a professor of political science at Georgia State University. Okay, I'm back. Simon Bolivar is a hero to Chavez, someone he saw as a real trailblazer, a champion for the people who uprooted the political order. For most of the 20th century, which was the backdrop for Chavez's life, the political order of Venezuela was based around one thing. Oil. Oil was everything. Was and remains in Venezuela is everything because its economy almost hinges entirely on oil. In the 1920s, Venezuela became a major oil producer. The economy boomed, and eventually the oil industry was nationalized. Venezuela seemed

to be a beacon of stability and prosperity. In a region otherwise ravaged by civil wars and dictatorships. Through the 50s, 60s, 70s. Problem was, most of that wealth was concentrated in the hands of a few at the top. And in the 1980s, oil prices began to drop, and the economy began to decline. The gap between rich and poor got bigger, and corruption in the government was rampant. That's when Chavez began to think seriously about staging his own uprising. So he got a bunch of his friends in the military together

and formed a group called the Revolutionary Bolivarian Army, determined to lift up the poor by spreading the oil wealth around and championing a sort of deeper democracy. For a few years, they plotted, planned, and by 1992, the pieces were set. They were going to overthrow the president of Venezuela. An attempted coup was taking place on the streets of Caracas. Here's how it went down. On the morning of February 4th, five military units were dispersed across the country.

Their mission? To take over key government posts. The defense ministry, the military airport, the military museum, the presidential palace, and the national TV station, where they planned to broadcast a video on the part of Chavez and other of the leaders of this movement, calling on the population to rise up.

I remember, you know, my mother turning on the television. The men in the red berets are rebel paratroopers. And it was those things that you kind of see in movies, like a grainy video of people, you know, in fatigues, speaking about the conditions of significant inequality that existed and that something has to change. Some of the military units quickly took control of a few large cities in Venezuela. But the unit led by Chavez, the one that was supposed to take over the presidential palace in Caracas and arrest the president? That coup was a military fiasco. He failed.

And eventually they surrendered. Okay, bizarre twist here. So Chavez, who failed in his mission, is then chosen by the president to make a speech on national television, mainly because he was the rebel leader who happened to be at the presidential palace. Right place, right time. He is one of at least six or seven other people who could have taken up that role of prominent leadership. And it falls on Chavez because he is given airtime to tell all the other troops who had actually been successful in their own tactical missions, to lay down their weapons. This was supposed to be his punishment,

to go on TV and wave a white flag in mid-defeat for two minutes. I take responsibility for the failure of this project. And then he also said this is a Bolivarian movement. We were fighting for democracy. We haven't achieved it right now, but it's just over. Por ahora. Por ahora. For the moment.

Which created the expectation that this was not the end, this was the beginning. When this outsider emerged, first trying to stage a coup which failed, but then publicly recognizing that that failure was his own and accepting responsibility, that was something new for most Venezuelans. This is Raul Gallegos. He was a correspondent for the Wall Street Journal in Caracas from 2004 to 2009. So he became a star. That was his 30 seconds of fame. That's when he burst onto the world stage. And that was all that it took to completely alter the narrative of Venezuelan history. After giving the speech, Chavez was escorted to jail,

which only added to his newfound stardom. And so in failure, he nevertheless became the leader because of this circumstance. Another accident of history. If somebody else had been, you know, given that airtime, maybe they would have been the ones to lead this movement. And to a large extent, that had also happened with Bolivian, right? In both cases, it was out of failure and circumstance that propelled their image as something larger. And then they kind of rode that image into bigger and better things.

Well, not always better. But without a doubt, much bigger things were just around the corner for both of them. Part 2. The Iron Hand So last we heard of Bolivar. He'd just been sent into exile after a failed attempt at Venezuelan independence. And it was during that time that Bolívar's revolutionary vision really took shape. Most people at the time, you know, they never got beyond like 50 miles or a radius, and he just traveled everywhere, certainly by necessity, but also, you know, by choice. Bolívar spent a lot of time outside of Venezuela, organizing new rebellions, failing, and reflecting on what went wrong in that first

rebellion, the one that came so close to succeeding. Those reflections led Bolivar to devise a whole new approach. First, if you wanted to build up an army, all types of people needed to be brought into the revolutionary fold, not just, as Miranda had thought, the elite, the criollos. Criollos aren't going to, you know, be the ones who are charging into battle. People who are going to be charging into battle are mestizo, you know, mixed race peoples who can imagine themselves in a better place in an independent system. It's slaves for whom he subsequently promises liberty. Second, Bolivar decided that he would have to wage a different kind of war

to stand a chance against the powerful Spanish army. He was one of the original guerrilla fighters because he was all about surprise and all about numbers. So even though you were naked in a loincloth with nothing but a stick, you know, if you had enough of those people, you could run over a battalion of Spanish with better armor. And third, Bolívar rethought his mission altogether. This can't be a struggle to liberate Venezuela.

This has to be a much larger continental struggle. He imagined a South America under one flag that would be democratic and inclusive of all the diverse people that lived in it. This wasn't just an effort to take power. It was supposed to bring a different kind of government, one not just ruled by the elite. He called this new vision of a united South America Gran Colombia.

Great Colombia. Es una idea grandiosa pretender formar de todo el mundo nuevo una sola nación con un solo vínculo Colombia, which would bring together a federation of independent republics nevertheless united as one. More and more people across South America began joining his cause. And with this army, Bolívar began challenging Spanish troops in Venezuela and neighboring Colombia. But it wouldn't be an easy path to independence. The Spanish were a force, unbelievable force. Very, very violent and very organized military structure.

But then, in 1819, Bolivar's army marched towards Colombia. And Bolivar knew if they followed a typical route, the Spanish would defeat them again. So instead, he decided to take a less predictable but ridiculously dangerous route through the Andes Mountains. It's cold. It's rocky. It's mountainous. Horses don't easily, you know, pass through there. It's uncharted terrain.

Hoping that the element of surprise would carry them to victory. When these armies traveled, and we need to remember this, it wasn't just soldiers. They traveled with their women because the women were cooking for the men right on the battlefield. They were bringing their children. So you would have these great long trains and caravans of people going into war, which were like whole populations.

For weeks, this caravan of soldiers, women, and children trudged through the mountains. Some people got sick. Others died. But eventually, the army arrived in Boyaca, a town in central Colombia about 90 miles from the capital, Bogota. They come upon a battalion of Spaniards who did not think that Bolivar's army, again comprised of these people, would take that route. And Bolivar's army won their first major victory. Bolívar needed a victory at that time to be able to turn the tide and to gain some momentum. And the Spanish finally began to look beatable, no longer an invincible force. And within a couple of years, Gran Colombia was

declared a reality as Bolívar set his sights on liberating the rest of Spanish South America. And Bolívar became overthrow the president of Venezuela, he was being sworn in himself. Today we can say, with a spirit full of tranquility, with a conscience also full of tranquility, everything has been consumed. I'm sure you're wondering how this could have happened. I mean, this is the same guy who tried to undermine democracy not that long ago by staging a coup. Well, his evolution from coup stager to candidate really began while he was in jail. During that time, Venezuela was facing some serious problems.

The party system that had been held up as solid and strong had now collapsed. Then after that, you know, you had a tremendous banking crisis. Several banks failed when that basically wiped out savings that people had had. But mainly, oil prices were dropping. The poverty rate increased from about 25% to about 65% in the course of the 1990s. So it was really a difficult decade for them. Nothing like what we're seeing today, for sure. But at the time, it was significant enough to create the sense

that Venezuela can continue in the way that it's going. And so, not that Chavez had been prophetic, right? But Chavez seemed to have predicted this economic and political turmoil in that two-minute speech he gave after the coup. And many Venezuelans remembered it, which

allowed Chavez's aura to grow. Even while he was in jail. So much so that... That this new president that was elected in 1993, one of his first acts was to pardon Chavez. So Chavez was freed after two years in jail. But once out of jail, Chavez didn't embrace the spotlight right away. He, you know, tactically kind of retreated from the public eye.

Chavez knew that a lot of Venezuelans were still skeptical of his motives, even if they liked his ideas. Do we really trust this guy? Does he actually mean what he says? He comes from the military after all. So Chavez decided to leave Venezuela for a while, a sort of self-imposed exile. He traveled all around Latin America. Going to other countries, meeting other leaders. This is Jennifer McCoy again. And in fact, that's when he met Fidel Castro. That began a lifelong friendship

with Fidel Castro, whom he later used to consider almost like a father. While on these travels, Chavez was taking in new ideas, looking at what was happening in Venezuela. And began to kind of create a vision for what a political project would look like. He talked about a new constitution. He talked about a new form of democracy. He talked about an economy that would benefit, you know, bringing back the oil wealth. And that this would be a great magical trick, that he would just turn the oil wealth into a better life for everybody. So for the next couple of years, Chavez campaigned on that grand vision.

And he appealed especially to the lower and middle classes for support. By 1998, on the eve of the election, the country had two very different options for president. Chavez's opponent, Enrique Salas Romero. This older, you know, white man of clear European descent from this elite background. Or Chavez. You know, darker-hued, working-class person who had actually, you know,

had the gall to follow through on his critiques of government and gone to jail for it after taking responsibility for a failed coup. The differences could not be starker between status quo or radical change. Hugo Chavez's message just galvanized them. So they were ready for change, and he won with 56% of the vote. And that sort of began the Chavez era. After Bolivar was named president of Gran Colombia, he and his army set out fighting battle after battle across South America, losing some but winning many, first liberating Colombia, then Venezuela.

Moves down to Ecuador, liberates Ecuador. First liberating Colombia, then Venezuela. Moves down to Ecuador, liberates Ecuador. Peru was up next. And that was the end. I mean, that was the cutting of the throat of the Spanish colonies at that point. Bolívar was appointed dictator of Peru and went on to liberate Panama and even has a country named after him, Bolivia. So now, the Spanish were gone, South America was free from colonial rule, and Bolívar was victorious. He was looking out on a massive, diverse army of followers, with the world

seemingly at his feet. And even though the continent was scarred by years of fighting, it was a hopeful moment. Gran Colombia could now be fully realized, in theory. The vision that he had going into the revolution was not the reality that he had coming out. So yes, his moment of triumph happens, but it's very short-lived. He was all about the rights of man, liberty, number one, equality, very close thereupon. But then when he actually got into the reality of that hierarchy that Spain had built so carefully and had kept this little crust on top, it was a mess. It turns out, while Bolivar was busy liberating all those countries, that little crust on top, the Criollo elite, the group he himself was a part of, had grown more and more angry with him, not only in Venezuela, but throughout South America, resentful of what

the independence movement had become and concerned about what their positions would be in this new order. Plus, Bolivar faced another challenge. He had brought together all these different people, former slaves, cowboys from the plains, indigenous people, and now he had to figure out how to get them all to follow the same rules. He would ride from town to town, from city to city, setting up institutions, establishing universities once the revolution was over. And what would happen is the moment he rode away, things would fall apart. So he became more and more convinced that the only way you were going to be able to rule these unruly people was to really have a strong iron hand.

Cracks were forming in Bolivar's dream of a democratic, pan-South American state. And he decided the only way to achieve his ultimate goal, to make sure things got done the way he envisioned, was to consolidate power in his own hands. Famously, Bolivar said, if nature stands against us, we will defeat her as well. Destiny is in our hands against any force, real, imagined, or ethereal.

Day one of Hugo Chavez's presidency. He had like 85% popularity. He had business owners supporting him all the way down to the poor. So it was quite widespread. Again, Jennifer McCoy. And I think that was largely because people could make what they wanted to out of his promises. With all this public support, Chavez hit the ground running.

He went all in on his Bolivar fandom. He cultivated himself as a 21st century Simón Bolívar. He even renamed the country the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. And he started changing the rules of the game. The most immediate one was to get rid of the old constitution. The new constitution was really a mix of progressive human rights and at the same time giving more power to the president. It extended the term to six years.

Eliminated the bicameral Congress and created a national assembly. People didn't pay too much attention to the new constitution. But then Chavez started talking about oil. Talked about that the nation's resources would be the primary source of revenue and wealth for the nation to rebuild itself. And people did take notice. For Chavez, oil was the key to establishing Bolivar's vision for Venezuela. But the more he talked about redistributing the oil wealth and shaking up the oil industry,

the more enemies he made. That was the primary and initial battle that Venezuelan society split on in the early years of the Chavez era. What is the oil industry? Who does it serve? And how is it going to be controlled? Pretty soon, the widespread support Chavez started out with began to fade. Sure, he still had support among the lower class. But the upper class, the people who profited off of the old system, were nervous about what this new setup would mean for them. Chavez continued to consolidate more and more power, especially over the country's oil. And in April of 2002, he faced a dramatic coup attempt. Violence broke out, the military tried to get rid of him, and another guy was

installed as president. But then Chavez supporters took to the streets, and within two days, Chavez was back in power. When he comes back, though, he is very shaken by this because he didn't know what was going to happen to him. He didn't know if he was going to be killed or put in jail the rest of his life or what was going to happen. Despite that fear, Chavez didn't try to win over the people who had just attempted to get rid of him, the opposition, or even to extend an olive branch. Quite the opposite. Now is a sense of, okay, it's on. Over the course of the next few years, Chavez would seek to consolidate more and more power. From now on, like Bolivar, he would rule with a strong iron hand. Part 3.

Allo, Presidente. It's August 2007, Sunday, and Hugo Chavez is getting ready to host his weekly talk show, Alo Presidente. And I should say, this show was a defining feature of Chavez's presidency. He would get on TV every Sunday, and it was like this variety show. He'd talk, interview people, sing songs. There were dancers sometimes. It was kind of weird.

And he could go on for hours. His guest this week? Journalist Rory Carroll. It was actually on a beach way out in the sticks. On a really hot day. He had his desk plonked in the sand. And as the show opens, Chavez invites Rory to ask him anything. And so I asked him,

why was he preparing to have a referendum to get rid of limits on presidential terms, which would basically open the door to him being potentially ruling for life. You know, this course is on presidential terms, which would basically open the door to him being potentially ruling for life. You know, this course is on live television and his eyes narrowed in a kind of rather theatrical way. You know, and then he turned to the audience, did you hear that?

Did you hear what he said? Then Chavez goes on a tirade. A tirade about me being an embodiment of European colonialism, of European hypocrisy. And he tied this to, first, you know, the sins committed by Columbus, and then the Spaniards, and then the British and the Royal Navy. And I'm sitting there sweating because it's a hot day and I'm having showers, pouring a bucket of rhetorical excrement over my head and turning me into rhetorical football. And, you know, it went on and on. Hour one turns into two, then three, four, five. Hour six, I think he came back to my question and he did. Then he did actually answer it with,

by using a metaphor, he said that the revolution was an unfinished work of art. And he was the artist. And he could not, in good conscience, hand the brush over to another artist that he needed to finish it. After eight hours, the show finally comes to an end. And backstage, Chavez goes up to Rory. He was very friendly. I mean, he came up, we shook hands, and his tone to me was like, hey, don't, you know, don't sweat the, you know, the fact that I turned you into an imperialist villain for a while. You know, it's a show.

That was Chavez in a nutshell. A showman, a visionary, and a salesman. Someone who could put a bow on a broken down car and convince you to buy it. By this time, 2007, Chavez had managed to consolidate power in almost every sector of society. The military, the government, and oil. The price per barrel of oil when Uwe Chavez was elected in 1998 was $8. At the height of his presidency, the price per barrel of oil was $150. He was so fortunate to be in office during this incredible oil boom. Chavez invested a lot of that oil money in social programs for the poor.

He decided that the best way to help people was to create these social programs that were parallel to the established government institutions. Parallel institutions that he could have more control over and kind of squeezing and starving the others that were more independent. So Chavez was spending a ton of money, but not actually strengthening any of the existing infrastructure in Venezuela. Instead, he funneled all of it into these parallel institutions that spanned everything from media to NGOs, universities, healthcare. So there was basically two of everything. It was this mix of socialism and rampant consumerism. Point is, thanks to the oil boom from 2005 to 2012 venezuela was in a golden age people had more to eat more money in their pockets better health care and meanwhile chavez became more and more drawn to a pan-american vision like bolivar he started to see the end game as a united south

america he reached out to leaders throughout the region, openly criticized the United States, who he saw as an obstacle because of its tendency to meddle, and stopped internal production in Venezuela, instead importing products from other countries in Latin America to boost their economies. That decision was... An ideological one that derives directly from this Bolivarian vision, but also an economic one that's based on the idea that only united can we forge ahead as an independent Latin America. And every week when Chavez went on TV and hosted his talk show, he pushed that vision, bringing people on like Rory Carroll, a foreigner, to use as a sort of stand-in for the world order that he hoped to

overturn. Plus, he made it seem like the money would never run out, like Venezuela would continue to be in this golden age forever. The problem was that he probably underestimated how quickly corruption and mismanagement can destroy wealth and leave you worse than you were originally. So even as Chavez projected this confident image, the reality was way more complicated. He still faced a lot of opposition, and all that money he was spending was really starting to add up. The bubble was bound to burst sometime. And that really, in a sense, was the story of Chavez's rule, that he was a brilliant communicator, a master strategist,

and a terrible manager. They weren't saving for the rainy day. And when the rainy day hit, they were in very bad shape. You have been witness to my efforts to establish freedom where tyranny previously reigned. I have worked without the thought of personal gain, sacrificing my fortune and even my peace of mind. I have been the victim of persecutors who have driven me to the very threshold of my grave. After facing years of opposition and stalled progress, Bolivar's vision of a united South America was fading. The cost of the revolution had been really high.

All of this blood had been spilled, all of this incredible sacrifice, whole cities wiped off the map. But it turned out, picking up the pieces of that revolution was just as hard. Towards the end of his life, Bolivar contracted tuberculosis. Not only is he getting sicker, but there are whole forces that are against him. Angry about the extremely centralized government Bolivar has put in place, which consolidated all the power in his hands alone,

Bolivar was on thin ice across South America, especially in Colombia. And finally, the ice broke. He then is literally run out of Bogota and exiled from Colombia because they've had enough of Bolivar. They don't want him anymore. They want their little pockets of turf.

He has no friends, and he's penniless. He's a pauper at this point. He's given over all of his wealth. On December 10, 1830, Bolivar gave his final speech in Santa Marta, Colombia. From there, he planned to take a ship to an island and live out the rest of his life in exile. My final wishes are for the happiness

of the country. If my death contributes to the cessation of factions and the consolidation of the Union, I will step peacefully into the grave. One week later, on December 17, 1830, Bolivar died, unceremoniously and alone. No bells are rung particularly. Nobody makes any eulogies. Soon after Bolívar's death in 1830 in Colombia, actually his name was banned. Bolívar was remembered as a disgraced leader, a revolutionary turned tyrant.

He left much of South America in disarray, with no clear plan for who would follow in his footsteps to lead all those countries he'd ruled over. Then, everything changes. Because everyone at that point begins to think, oh, by God, the revolution would not have been won except for this man. And he started this revolution. The sort of engagement with the Bolívar legacy begins at that point.

So he became basically all things to all people. Leader after leader across South America, but especially in Venezuela, invoked Bolívar, using his legacy as a political tool. I think Chávez understood very well that Bolívar could be deployed very malleably because that was ultimately the legacy of Bolívar for Venezuelan politics, to be this catch-all figure that could stand for many things simultaneously. You can go from Bolívar the nationalist to, once we have a lot of oil money and can project more broadly, Bolívar the Pan-American.

We can go from Bolívar the participatory Democrat to Bolívar the, no, there's one leader here, and the leader is me. Whether it's tickling babies or slamming opponents, there are few politicians in the world who can match Hugo Chavez. For the past 14 years, the Venezuelan president has been arguably the most charismatic and controversial leader in the world. But this may be his last campaign.

In 2012, Chavez was on the campaign trail, running for a third term in office. His work of art was not yet complete. At one of his final rallies… Upwards of a million and a half, two million people sort of descend on Caracas. And the great question is, is Chavez going to show up? That's because Chavez had been really sick. He's diagnosed with cancer in 2011. The crowd waited. And suddenly... Chavez just kind of materializes.

Just at the time that a torrential downpour comes across Caracas. And so Chavez just walks up to the stage and just takes the rain in. that a torrential downpour comes across Caracas. And so Chavez just walks up to the stage and just takes the rain in. Just no umbrella, right? Just as everybody is getting soaked. And he starts to dance and to pretend that he's like Muhammad Ali, throwing some jabs here and there.

It's just like this almost ineffable moment of a man that was otherwise in his, seemed to be in like his deathbed, suddenly doing this act where he's not only showing or performing this vitality, but once again saying, I am one of you. Chavez went on to win re-election in October of 2012. But by December of that year, his health had gotten really bad.

So he decided to hold a press conference. Tells the country he's leaving for Cuba to get treatment. The prognosis is not good. And says if he doesn't return, I tell all of you to follow Nicolás. Nicolás Maduro. Maduro was in the Chávez government, you know, throughout. First as a deputy, eventually he became foreign minister, then vice president.

So he, you know, he had a variety of roles and was always present. Still, Maduro was no Chavez. And the idea of anyone other than Chavez leading the country seemed almost beyond comprehension for a lot of Venezuelans. Among his hardcore supporters and also among the hardcore opposition, they just couldn't accept him as that. He could die. He was such a huge figure in Venezuela. He was a colossus. He sucked up all the oxygen and done so for two decades. It was this sense of, no.

What are you talking? No. You're going to come back. It's going to be okay. How could we imagine a future Chavismo de Chavez at the helm? But a few months later... The provocative and unpredictable strongman of Venezuela has died. Chavez died. The streets are filled with mourners. The crowds are stretched over a mile across the Venezuelan capital of Caracas as the country says its final farewell to the man. President Hugo Chavez leaves behind a divided nation and a country in the grip of a deepening political crisis.

The Venezuela Chavez left behind was about to enter a really dark time. And his economic policies of the previous decade or so were to blame. Mismanagement opened up the door to a huge amount of corruption and also hurt the private sector, mainly the oil sector. He destroyed institutions, but did not do a good job at recreating institutions. And this is what people often say about revolutionaries. You have a disruptive leader coming in. They can destroy things in the name of change. But the same leader is not the one who can necessarily rebuild. He also left behind an almost mythical legacy, making it hard for anyone to follow in his

footsteps. And when we look at what's happening in Venezuela today, under Maduro, we can see the shadow of Chavez looming, just as Bolivar's has loomed over the country for centuries. One of the great paradoxes that are parallel to Bolivar is that there is no succession. No one can fill Bolivar's shoes just as no one can fill Chavez's shoes. In the, you know, in the common parlance of Venezuela's, you know, popular lingo, Chavez is un porta-aviones. He's an aircraft carrier. He carries everything within it, right? And so what happens when the aircraft carries no longer there? All those planes like collapse to the ocean, right? And so he's understood by both foes and friends alike as irreplaceable. That's it for this week's show.

I'm Ramtin Arablui. I'm Rand Anderfattah. And you've been listening to ThruLine from NPR. This episode was made by me. And me. And Jamie York. Jordana Hochman. Lawrence Wu.

Grace Mizing Summer. Nigery Eaton. Original music was produced by Ramtin and his band, Drop Electric. Thanks also to Anya Grunman. Bryn Winterbottom, Didi Skanki, and Federico Guerre for being the voice of Simon Bolivar. If you liked the episode, please write us at ThruLine at NPR.org or find us on Twitter at ThruLine NPR. Thanks for listening. Thank you. you you Thank you. following message come from the Kauffman Foundation, providing access to opportunities that help people achieve financial stability, upward mobility, and economic prosperity, regardless of race, gender, or geography. Kauffman.org.