Consider This from NPR - Can We Stop Mass Shootings Before They Start?

Episode Date: May 28, 2022

In the past two weeks the nation has borne witness to the tragedy of two mass shootings. In Uvalde, Texas, a gunman killed 19 students and their two teachers inside a fourth grade classroom at Robb Elementary School. At least 17 were wounded. In Buffalo, New York, a man is accused of shooting and killing 10 members of the Black community who were shopping at Tops supermarket. In a long internet screed, he wrote about how online racist ideology and white supremacist conspiracy theories fueled his violence. Witnessing the aftermath of these horrific acts leaves us wondering, once again, what can be done to identify the warning signs of those who plan to commit mass violence—before it's too late?We speak with Joanna Schroeder about ways to protect young people from being indoctrinated into violent white supremacist groups. Schroeder chronicles her sons' exposure to content from online racist hate groups and how she intervened. In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University is committed to moving the world forward, working to tackle some of society's biggest challenges. Nine campuses, one purpose. Creating tomorrow, today. More at iu.edu. Another massacre. Uvalde, Texas. An elementary school. Beautiful, innocent, second, third, fourth graders. The nation's attention is focused once again on a shattering act of violence. Earlier this week, an 18-year-old man killed 19 children and two teachers and wounded at least 17 more. Families and friends of victims are in shock and grieving, trying to come to grips with the idea that this sort of thing can happen in their small town, and they're wondering why. I want to just extend

our deepest and most heartfelt condolences to the family members of the victims of the vicious attack on our community. That's Byron Brown, the mayor of Buffalo, New York. Just 10 days before the school shooting in Texas, a different gunman, also 18, drove from his home hours away to a supermarket he'd picked out in advance and shot 13 people, killing 10 of them. The indoctrination of a boy to kill people that don't look like him is only because somebody is having a conversation that divides our people as a race and as humanity. And we have got to stop. And this is not isolated to our community.

This has been happening for over 400 years. Come on. Enough is enough. Enough is enough. Pastor Tim Brown spoke at a vigil following the shootings in Buffalo after it became clear through the shooter's social media posts that his actions were fueled by racist ideologies. He was on a mission to kill black people. Consider this.

The motives of the shooters in Buffalo and Uvalde may not have been the same. In fact, we may never learn why some people choose to kill. But those terrible acts leave us wondering once again what can be done to identify the warning signs of those who plan to commit horrific acts before it's too late. That's coming up. From NPR, I'm Michelle Martin.

It's Saturday, May 28th. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today, or visit WISE.com. T's and C's apply. It's Consider This from NPR. In some ways, the school shootings in Uvalde and the racially motivated murders in Buffalo seem unconnected, but there are obvious similarities between both suspects, their age, the fact that they are both men, and they were both able to legally buy AR-15 style weapons and ammunition. Beyond that, though, those who study mass violence say they

shared certain patterns of behavior. I think it's very important for the American public to realize that this is not a hopeless problem. There are ways to confront this before it actually occurs, because these are planned attacks, because these are not totally insane people who are just snapping. Mark Fulman is the author of Trigger Points, Inside the Mission to Stop Mass Shootings in America. Ten years ago, he started a database to track mass shootings. He says that would-be mass shooters often give off warning signs, including behavior that those closest to them, friends, family members, neighbors, classmates, teachers, often find disturbing. When you study these cases, there is a whole range of circumstances and often

a rational thought process in the person planning this kind of violence. So of course, we have to acknowledge that no person who commits a mass shooting is mentally healthy. They have deep problems, but it's a range of problems that are behavioral, that are circumstantial, there are things going on in their lives, there's lack of connection. You know, these are at-risk people, people in crisis, and there is opportunity to intervene before they get down this, what's called the pathway to violence. He says expressing concerns about a person's behavior with others who are trained to help in schools or through social services or

law enforcement can diffuse potentially dangerous situations. What's imperative is to reach out for help because behavioral threat assessment teams will look at a wide range of information about a person's situation and figure out what the root causes are of the problem and then try to step in. So often we're talking about people who have developed violent ideas because they feel as if they have no other option. Coming up, what parents can do when they suspect their kids are being indoctrinated into hatred and violence by extremist content on the internet. This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University

drives discovery, innovation, and creative endeavors to solve some of society's greatest challenges. Groundbreaking investments in neuroscience, climate change, Alzheimer's research, and cybersecurity mean IU sets new standards to move the world forward, unlocking cures and solutions that lead to a better future for all. More at iu.edu forward. About three years ago, Joanna Schroeder noticed something in one of her son's online feeds. She's a freelance writer and editor, and at the time she wasn't sure how to react. I saw a meme that had Hitler come across one of my kids' Instagram feeds. My kids didn't understand the dog whistle and the subcontext of the meme, but I immediately jumped on Twitter and I wrote a thread and just vented my feelings and my fears.

And that went wildly viral, at least by my standards. And the pushback I received then was, this is ridiculous. Memes don't radicalize kids. Memes are just jokes. Kids know the difference between propaganda and jokes. They're not as naive as you think they are. To Schroeder, though, it was no laughing matter. And after she did some digging, she explained why in a 2019 opinion piece for the New York Times.

It was titled, Racists Are Recruiting, Watch Your White Sons. We remembered the piece after we learned that the 18-year-old charged in the Buffalo murders was found to have published a long internet screed of white racist dogma that he learned about online. Dogma that inspired his plan to seek out Black people to kill. I think it's been pretty, it's been pretty sickening to see that those memes and those images have appeared in the manifesto of this Buffalo shooter. I think that those of us who were keyed into this early on are frustrated that it wasn't received then and that parents didn't realize the degree to which meme culture, when it's used for hate, really does affect our kids.

It really does influence them. And the evidence is right there in that manifesto. So just to be clear, your boys weren't seeking this out. This wasn't something they were looking for. Like they weren't trying to join some neo-Nazi group or something. This is stuff that was just kind of flowing into their feeds, right? Yeah, that's correct. And I do believe that most teenagers see this content on TikTok or on Instagram or whatever platforms they're on. But I think my boys were seeing it specifically because they are gamers. They do other things than just gaming, but they do play video games and we support that

they do it. They love it. They have healthy habits around it. And gaming kids tend to be the ones that are most directly targeted from my own experience because they're online a lot. And because I believe these people who want to get this message out think that they're a vulnerable population. And so once they're searching things related to gaming and live streams, whatever game

they're playing, all of a sudden they're seen by that algorithm as someone who may be interested in sort of anti-democracy or, you know, racist or bigoted content. It's very disturbing. You did some research on this about why these groups target boys in that demographic, young men and young adults. What did you find out? What themes did they play on? I think what happened early on is people believed that a kid had to be seeking out racist or anti-Semitic content to find it. But that was the alarm that was raised within me was, no, no, I think it's being served to them. And I think it works really well with young men and adolescent boys because these people recognize that it's natural for a teenage boy to want to push away from their

family's values. It's natural for them to want to have a degree of irreverence. And it's natural for them to want to push their boundaries. And so that keys right into this kind of antagonistic or irreverent or edgy, they'll say, or demented humor. And then the kids start to lose their boundaries around what is ethical and moral because they can just say, oh, it's just a joke. And that's what they're told. And that's what they hear. And that taps right into their desire to push away. I also think at this age, they're starting to think about what their place is in the world. And I think it's very instinctual to American boys to want to be heroes.

And there's an urgency to the message that white people in particular are in danger in this country. And that feeds right into that need to be heroic, need to carve your own way. But imagine being able to be heroic and change the path of the country forever. So it is just like a ticking time bomb. And it's right in front of these boys. And if they connected deeply with it, there can be serious, serious fallout. I'm going to read one paragraph from your piece. You say, it seems to me as a mom that these groups prey upon the natural awkwardness of adolescence. Many kids feel out of place, frustrated and misunderstood and are

vulnerable to the idea that someone else is responsible for their discontent. And when they're white and male, they're spoon fed a list of scapegoats, people of color, feminists, immigrants, LGBTQ people. And you say, if they really embrace this, it's not hard to convince them that there's a white genocide happening and that these people and the leftists who represent their interests are to blame. I'm just guessing a lot of parents could hear that and go, okay, I get it. So now you also offer some thoughts about what parents can do. First thing is you talk about what not to do. You say that the punitive response often creates a sense of shame that then leads to anger

that the alt-right is very eager to exploit. So talk about that for a minute. We know that the boys that are susceptible to this are probably already feeling disenfranchised and distant from their parents. So if we react by pushing them further away, maybe we're saying things that they feel are hateful toward them. We might say that, oh, hey, that's racist. Hey, that's sexist. And if we do that with shame, instead of inviting them in, it pushes them toward those people. There's kind of that undercurrent in society where people say, nobody can take a joke anymore. And man, that just taps right into what

these boys are feeling. And the moment their mom or dad or teacher, whomever it is, says, you know, that joke is not appropriate. That's a really hurtful joke. It affirms for them that these extremist groups are correct. Nobody can take a joke anymore. My mom won't even let me make this joke in my own house. And when they feel like them simply talking in ways that maybe they don't even realize is bigoted, when they feel like they do that and we attack and we're angry and we shut them down, they just retreat right back to that group online that's waiting with open arms to bring them in deeper. And I think the antidote to that is probably trying to see in your child when they say something that they consider irreverent, that may be offensive or even oppressive in its nature, that we try to get over

our own anger as white parents and our own maybe triggered emotions, which I know I have when I hear anti-feminist statements. It reminds me of being an unpopular girl in high school and being a feminist online. I have to step away from my anger. So if we can calm ourselves down and look at what is this child think he's doing? What is the need that's not being served within him that I can address? So you have to take a breath through that, that frustration and that anger and dig into like, can you tell me why this is funny? I'm just super curious. Like, I don't, I'm not trying to be mean. I'm not trying to judge you. I'm just curious. Like, what made you laugh about this? And hear what he has to say so that he feels like he can talk

things out with you without being shamed or blamed or cast aside. We're obviously talking about a kind of a wide range of responses here because there are some parents who think this is perfectly fine. I mean, there are some parents who think it's perfectly fine. But then there are other people who are in a context where this is really serious. I mean, there are kids who've had, you know, college admissions revoked because of their engagement with these extremist groups. And there are people who have gotten attracted to these groups who have hurt people, as we have just seen.

So you can see where a parent might be like, this is really serious. I need to jump in here. What do you say to that? One thing that I try and drive home is that I don't believe that the vast majority of parents in the United States want their child to hurt anybody.

And that's where we all can connect and try to drive home the idea that it's our job, all of us as parents, to make this country better, to make it safer for everybody, regardless of race, religion, or who you love, and that any ideology that encourages somebody to hurt somebody else doesn't fly in this family, doesn't fly in this house, doesn't fly in this school. And if we can take that message and even better institutionalize it and have PTAs and school districts and sports associations and churches and any other group where young people are being influenced, adopt that kind of thinking and call kids in instead of shame them out, then we might be able to see some real change.

Joanna Schroeder is a freelance writer and editor. Her 2019 opinion piece for the New York Times is titled, Racists Are Recruiting. Watch Your White Sons. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Michelle Martin.