Consider This from NPR - Colorado Shooting Reveals Limits Of State Gun Control — And Steels Activists For More

Episode Date: March 24, 2021

Colorado has universal background checks, a red flag law and the city of Boulder recently passed an assault weapons ban. None of it was enough to stop a man from shooting and killing 10 people at a Boulder grocery store this week. State Rep. Tom Sullivan, whose son was killed in the 2012 Aurora movie theatre shooting, reacts to the events of this week — and tells NPR why he still believes incremental action at the state level can help prevent gun violence. Additional editing help in this episode from Bente Birkeland of Colorado Public Radio. In participating regions, you'll also hear from local journalists about what's happening in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Late last month, on a Friday morning, Tom Sullivan was doing something he does a lot of Friday mornings at work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today is the 448th Friday since my son Alex was murdered in the Aurora Theater massacre. That Friday he's talking about was July 20th, 2012. It was Sullivan's son's birthday. He went to the movies. A man walked into the theater with a shotgun, a tactical handgun, and an assault rifle equipped with a hundred-round drum magazine, and he killed Tom Sullivan's son and 11 others. I'm here to remind you daily what gun violence looks like. Whether you listen or not, I will continue to come to this microphone

and tell you about its impact. Now, after his son was killed, Sullivan made it his mission to fight for gun control in his state. So in 2018, he successfully ran as a Democrat for the Colorado State House, where he currently serves. And every other Friday that body is in session, he speaks about the tragedy that brought him there. But on this Friday, in late February, another representative had something to say in response. We must understand that maybe there is a time when God needs the spirit of those children to do something in heaven. Republican Richard Holthorff, a rancher and Army veteran from the southeastern part of the state, told Sullivan that Holthorff had learned a lesson about loss,

especially from his years of military service. And I offer this to my fellow colleagues, particularly the one that just spoke, that you have to let go. Representative Holthorff. Yes, sir. Let's just, again. Thank you, sir. You just heard Holtorf get cut off by the House Speaker after telling Tom Sullivan,

you have to let go. Well, I mean, it's not the first time I've heard it. It's not the last time I've heard it. That's Sullivan. People try to compare their loss with ours, unless you've actually, I mean, and now there are 10 families who I know exactly how they're feeling today, and they know now how I feel. And there is no getting over that.

Consider this. Gun violence in America is sometimes treated like an unavoidable tragedy, something many of us will have to endure, grieve, and let go. Coming up, why Tom Sullivan is not letting go, and what could have been done to prevent the latest mass shooting in his state. From NPR, I'm Adi Cornish. It's Wednesday, March 24th. This message comes from NPR sponsor 3M, supporting communities in the fight against COVID-19. I'm Adi Cornish. It's Wednesday, March 24th. 3M plants are running around the clock, producing more than 95 million respirators per month in the U.S.

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It's Consider This from NPR. The truth is there's no indication yet of any movement on federal gun control policy. That's despite calls from President Biden this week for Congress to act. We can ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines in this country. gun control policy. That's despite calls from President Biden this week for Congress to act. We can ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines in this country. Something like that would require a certain amount of Republican support in the U.S. Senate, which does not exist. Or it would require Democrats to eliminate the Senate filibuster and pass meaningful gun control without Republican votes, something that so far they do not seem prepared to

do. And while there's pressure on Biden to issue some kind of executive action on gun control, it's not clear what that would look like. Let me first say that putting in place common sense gun safety measures has been a passion of the president's since he was in the Senate. Press Secretary Jen Psaki on Air Force One this week would not rule out executive action or the possibility of Biden appointing a special official to oversee gun violence prevention, something a number of gun control advocates have called for. We are certainly considering a range of levers, including working through legislation, including executive actions. So with all that said, we're going to focus more on state laws. And that brings us back to Colorado, which actually has relatively strong gun control measures by U.S. standards. Thank you to everyone for joining us today.

In April of 2019, Colorado's Governor Jared Polis signed what's known as a red flag law. This isn't just about keeping families safe. It's also about keeping law enforcement officers safe. Now that law allows a family member or law enforcement to petition a court to temporarily confiscate someone's guns for up to a year. It's designed to keep people suffering from a mental health crisis from harming themselves or anyone else. Red flag laws are broadly popular with Democrats and Republicans. Colorado's controversial red flag gun law is now on the books, meaning guns can be taken away from people who are determined to be dangerous.

At the time, Fox News emphasized concerns from some on the right that Colorado's red flag law infringed on the Second Amendment. They interviewed a local sheriff who said he thought the law was ludicrous and unconstitutional. They went after the people's rights in a manner that was really, that I didn't think gave them due process because they said...

19 states and the District of Columbia have red flag laws. In Colorado's first year after its law was enacted, less than 150 red flag petitions were filed, and judges allowed for weapons to be seized in around 66 of those cases. That may sound like a small number, but consider just one of them. The case of a 61-year-old man in Douglas County who reportedly made multiple calls to the police claiming there was a hitman in his bedroom.

He also routinely wore a tactical vest labeled Deputy Sheriff while stopping citizens to ask, according to the Denver Post, quote, if everything was OK. When local law enforcement won their red flag petition, they found he had at least 59 guns and 50,000 rounds of ammunition. What you didn't see was anyone having their mint inin-box John Wayne commemorative rifle taken away from them. Colorado's red flag law was sponsored by Tom Sullivan. Back in February, he was speaking in the statehouse about what it did and did not do. You didn't read about wild animals climbing through farmhouse windows and taking children from their bed. And the flag of Venezuela doesn't fly here in the chamber. These were Sullivan's remarks just before a fellow lawmaker told him to let go of his son's death. we save one life. That means here in Colorado, 10 people were able to sit with their families this previous holiday season because of the passage of this legislation. Now, we have to say it's not clear whether Colorado's red flag law would have prevented

the man who killed 10 people in Boulder this week from getting a weapon. We don't yet know if there should have been red flag used or how it would have been used. It's really... Colorado Governor Jared Polis spoke to NPR Tuesday. This young man was 21. I don't know. We don't know the facts yet. Did the parents know something was up? Did they want to take the guns? Did they pursue red flag? I mean, these are all things that should be looked at. Still, even if the state's red flag law could not have been used in this case, a few other laws may have been relevant. One is an assault weapons ban.

The city of Boulder passed one a few years ago. But earlier this month, just days before the Boulder shooting, a state district court judge blocked it, ruling that only states or the federal government could ban assault weapons. Colorado also has a law mandating universal background checks, which can result in a firearm purchase being denied if the buyer has been arrested or convicted of assault. But the problem is we're only about two hours from Wyoming and parts of our state, you know, an hour from Utah. And it's relatively easy to avoid a background check if you just drive and buy a gun elsewhere.

So here's the bottom line for Tom Sullivan. A full nine years after his son was killed in the Aurora shooting, he still argues, even after this week's shooting in Boulder, that steady, incremental state action does offer a path to progress on gun control. Here's our conversation. What is this like for you as someone who has advocated so strongly for gun control laws? Well, I mean, you know, we're working on gun violence prevention here in the state of Colorado, and we've, you know, actually done, you know, some great things in 2013. We got background checks passed. We got high capacity magazines limited. We did things pertaining to domestic violence. And we've been doing the work.

I mean, I have a bill about reporting lost and stolen firearms. So we can, you know, continue to do the work. I mean, but quite obviously, you know, there's more work, you know, to be done. I want to ask you about the pushback to that. The city of Boulder actually had a ban on assault style weapons and just this month, that was blocked in court. I know that there was a political backlash where two Democratic state senators lost their seats in recall elections after backing gun control measures. You faced a recall push a couple of years ago. It seems like the backlash is significant to these efforts. There was in 2013, yeah, we did have to have the two senators who got recalled, but we won those seats back when they came out and they said that it was the Colorado Republican Party who tried to have me recalled.

It was out of fear of the voice of victims. You know, in this case, 120 days out of the year, I'm going to be standing in front of them. I wear my son's jacket. I go up every other Friday and tell them, you know, how many Fridays it's been since Alex and 11 others were murdered. Last Friday was the 452nd Friday since he was murdered. And that scares them. And it should because the vast majority of our society is in favor of this type of stuff. I have to ask, because there's such a strong gun control activist movement in Colorado, and as you've said, many laws fought for in the state legislature, that is not stopping massacres from happening. What is your response to the gun rights advocates who say, look, this can't be legislated away? Well, last year, 2019 was the first positive gun violence prevention bill that we've passed since 2013. OK, so we're back on board with doing that type of stuff.

And you're right. Any legislation is not going to prevent all of this, but it's going to help. It's going to reduce that. I mean, you know, our lost and stolen, it's going to be in an awareness proposition with their making people aware that, you know what, you can't leave your loaded handgun on the front seat of your unlocked car. That's dangerous for the rest of society. That's what we're doing. Over and over after mass shootings, whether it's Newtown, Parkland, Las Vegas, we see this push by activists for new gun control measures at the national level. We see those efforts really go nowhere in Congress. Do you feel any more, I guess, optimistic about this particular moment? I think in this case, this is an administration that a lot of them have been through this.

I remember my whole family when President Obama came to Aurora after the theater massacre. Joe Biden went to Newtown, talked to those parents. He went to Parkland. And I'm optimistic that he will continue the conversation. And we've got a lot of new people there in the Senate and in Congress who will help us with this. One of the things I'm trying to figure out is, because this is cyclical, massacre, outrage, political fighting, silence, massacre,

for people who are watching this and are feeling like they are struggling with understanding whether or not there's going to be change from your position, what would you tell them? In all of these, you fail to notice that it's which one of these events causes someone to get activated. I mean, there wasn't a Moms Demand Action group in the city of Aurora when my son was murdered. They didn't start one for another five years. It wasn't until

after the Parkland massacre that the Moms Demand group started in Aurora. And they have meetings across the street from the movie theater. So each one of these events, you're right, it does cyclical around but it also activates people whichever one and i i will take your activism i will take your support on this issue whenever it is you want to join us be it something that that happened in your community some urban violence when you see you know a domestic violence in in your community or with somebody that you know, or be at a mass shooting like this. This is activating people to say enough is enough and I'm going to do something about it. Tom Sullivan, thank you so much for sharing this with us and for your time.

Thank you for having me. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Adi Cornish.