Consider This from NPR - Even in death, Alexei Navalny hasn't given up the fight against corruption in Russia

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

In his posthumous memoir, Patriot, Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny wrote - "If they do finally whack me, the book will be my memorial."Though his voice has fallen silent, his wife Yulia Navalnaya is sharing his message. She now leads the movement her husband started, fighting Russian President Vladimir Putin's grip on power.For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Okay, so Alexei, I want to talk about something that we sort of touched on this morning. And you might hate this, but I really want you to think about it. If you are killed, if this does happen, what message do you leave behind to the Russian people? Oh, come on, Daniel. No, no way. It's like you're making movie for the case of my death. Like, again, I'm ready to answer your question. But please let me let it be another movie, movie number two. Let's make a thriller out of this movie. Alexei Navalny speaking with director Daniel Rohr in the opening moments of the documentary Navalny. Of course, that film was not a trailer for a second movie. Last year, it won the Oscar for Best Documentary. The film chronicled his final moments of freedom before he was imprisoned for the rest of his life. Out of Russia, we're getting reports that jailed Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny is now dead. Navalny's mother saw him Monday and said he was in good spirits.

Yet somehow Alexei Navalny dropped dead suddenly at a penal colony in Siberia. People are angry, but they're also deeply saddened at losing what they consider to be a beacon of democracy in Russia. By the time Navalny died in a Russian penal colony north of the Arctic Circle last February, he'd been a powerful opposition force in Russia for more than a decade. During those years, Navalny chronicled government corruption on his blog and YouTube channel. He ran for mayor of Moscow and tried to challenge Putin for president in 2018. He was barred from running. But as he told Leslie Stahl on 60 Minutes in 2017, he wouldn't let the Russian government intimidate him.

You got out of prison just a couple of days ago. Right. You held a rally right away. And you're goading them. You're begging them to arrest you again. These are people who are trying to steal my country. And I strongly disagree with it. I'm not going to be, you know, a kind of speechless person right now.

I'm not going to keep silent. In 2020, during a flight over Siberia, Navalny collapsed. That moment is captured in the documentary. It's believed that Navalny was poisoned with the nerve agent Novacek. He recovered from the attack in Germany, and in early 2021, he returned to Moscow, where almost immediately he was arrested. In the final moments of the film Navalny, Alexei gives a serious answer to the director's question about the risk he was taking. Alexei, if you are arrested and thrown in prison or the unthinkable happens and you're killed, what message do you leave behind to the Russian people? My message for the situation when I'm killed is very simple, not give up.

Consider this. Even in death, Alexei Navalny has not given up the fight against corruption in Russia. He continues to challenge Vladimir Putin in his new posthumous memoir, Patriot. From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. The ocean floor is abundant with minerals needed to power electric cars and other green technologies. But mining those minerals may harm coastal communities. These metals that are going to be dug out of our ocean will not benefit anyone from it. On the Sunday story from Up First, a look at the opportunity and dangers of mining the ocean floor.

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Listen now to the Shortwave podcast from NPR. It's Consider This from NPR. The Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny wrote, If they do finally whack me, the book will be my memorial. Navalny is talking about Patriot, his memoir, which is being published posthumously. And though his voice has fallen silent, his wife, Yulia Navalnaya, is sharing his message. She now leads the movement her husband started, fighting Russian President Vladimir Putin's grip on power. I spoke with her about her husband's work and her future. This memoir begins with a scene of Alexei on a plane, realizing that he has been poisoned with a nerve agent. And he had a long recovery in Germany. You were by his side. And then he made what might have been the most pivotal decision of his life. He returned to

Russia, where he was arrested at the border and imprisoned until his death. How do you think about that decision he made to return to his country? I understand that from other side it looks like a strange decision, but I knew my husband for many years. I lived with him for many years years and I knew him very well. I knew that he would never do another decision. He wanted to be in Russia. He wanted to be with Russian people and with his Russian supporters. It was very important for him to come back and show that he doesn't afraid, that he wants to continue his fight despite they poisoned him or not. I think many people will be surprised at how much his sense of humor comes through in this book,

even in his very darkest moments. What do you think was the secret to his positivity? I think that it was a kind of his superpower. And if I would know the secret, unfortunately, nobody knows. That's why he was so popular. That's why people love him. That's why he was so popular. That's why people love him. That's why he had so many supporters.

From one side, he was leader of Russian opposition. He was serious politician. And you, of course, expect from serious politician that, you know, the man in suit with tie and so on. Of course, he wears sometimes suit and tie. But still, he was and he wanted to be the ordinary guy from the next door house. And he was really funny. And it's not about the book. It's about our life. I spent with him more than 25 years and all the time he was very funny and he was very easy and he laughed a lot during very difficult moments in our life and it helped a lot and it gave a lot of strength.

He talks about watching Rick and Morty, the animated show on airplane flights, while he's campaigning in this intense a special episode which he liked a lot about small cucumber or something like this. I'm a little bit sorry. I'm sorry about it because I really, to say the truth, never watched probably a couple times with him, Rico Mortis. So I'm not just, you know, I don't know a lot of details. The first half of the book is a traditional memoir, and the second half is a prison diary. As you read those pages that he wrote while he was in prison, what surprised you? First of all, I knew about conditions, torturing conditions, in which he was in prison, of course, during he was alive. Because still it was very difficult, but we were able to exchange letters. That's why I knew much more.

Nothing surprised me because in these diaries, you can know really my husband, Alexei Navalny. It saw him and from one side, we can read about awful things which happened with him in prison, like hunger strike and all these torturing things. But from the other side, even during these days, he was very strong, but not just seriously strong. He laughed at his prison guards. He laughed at the situation. He laughed the situation. He loved himself. And it was his special thing about him. And it was his special power. And I think that it helped him a lot in his life. He describes a moment during your first extended visit to him in prison, where he says to you,

I don't want to sound dramatic, but I think there's a high probability I'll never get out of here. Even if everything starts falling apart, he says, they will bump me off at the first sign the regime is collapsing. What do you remember about that conversation? I remember a very long corridor, and we were walking one side and back along this corridor, and I at this moment. I wanted as I told, we lived so many years together so I knew him very well and I didn't want, you know,

to be sad or to show him how scared I am with this situation and that's why I wanted to be supportive. And also I knew that in a couple of days I will be a free person and he will stay in prison.

That's why despite he was very good, a strong shoulder for me all our life, but still it was very important at that moment that I need to be his shoulder. There was nearly an agreement to free your husband in a prisoner swap. Do you allow yourself to think about how your life would be different today if that had gone through before he died? I like the way you asked me this question. That's very good words.

Because I'm probably a little bit afraid to give these feelings come to me, and it could be very difficult to come back from all the thoughts. That's why I really never loved myself. But still, I want to say that I'm very happy that this prisoner swap happened and that innocent people who were fighting

against Vladimir Putin's regime are freed. I'd like to talk about the way that your role has now changed because, as Time magazine put it, you are no longer the first lady of the Russian opposition, but now it'sei Navalny. And I felt myself very comfortable and very pleasant in this role. I would prefer it never changed. I don't know. It's difficult for me to answer you still if I feel comfortable or not. It's about that you feel that it's important to do this. So I'm just doing what in what I believe and I am doing what I think right. Can you specify whether you were doing it for him or for your internal moral compass or for your country or what your motivation is for taking this on?

For all these reasons, first of all, for my country, second, for my children, and of course, for memory of my husband as well. He describes your views as being more radical than his. Do you agree? Stop it, stop it. Everybody's asking this question really uh yeah it's like the most common question uh he's the one who wrote it blame your late husband right right i blamed him in it while he was alive to say the truth uh because it's not just written in the book. He told it several times before. I don't know. I really don't understand what he meant. And I think that I was more radical because I discussed politics with him in the kitchen and it was much easier than...

You say things in the kitchen that you might not say in a public speech, huh? Yeah. You know, as you asked me, my role has changed. So I don't think now I'm so radical as I was before. You have to be more diplomatic now, is that what you're saying? Absolutely. Of course, of course. Tell me about what the goal of the movement is right now, because things in Russia have changed. Any dissent is immediately crushed. When any public demonstrations take place, they are met with imprisonment. So how do you even continue the work, especially from outside of the country? You're right. It's very difficult. And you're absolutely right, mentioned that everybody could be in prison for anything,

like for the like in social media or just post in social media. Our organization is doing a lot to bring independent information to people in Russia. We have several very big YouTube channels, and we are meeting with heads of states and discuss with them the current situation in Russia. There are still a lot of people in Russia who are against the war, who are against Putin's regime, and they still need a kind of support in any ways. They are living under dictatorship. They understand that they could be in prison for anything, any moment. And of course, we need to motivate them and to help in any way we can. The last question I'd love to ask you.

This book includes a collection of photographs. And there is Alexei giving speeches and marching in the streets and debating other politicians. But I want to ask you about one joyous photograph that shows you and him and your two children jumping off the top of a sand dune. Was there ever a scenario where the four of you could have had just a simple life more like that, not about a higher purpose or a struggle against a great power, just focused on fun times with your family? In my dreams, I, of course, thought that we'll be retired, sitting around our grandchildren, but life has taken another path. And I know why it happened. I just knew my husband. He was the person who wanted to fight till his last day. And it was very important for him. Yulia Navalnaya, thank you so much for talking with us.

Thank you so much for talking with us. Thank you so much. Her late husband, Alexei Navalny's memoir is called Patriot. This episode was produced by Michael Levitt. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. And one more thing before we go. You can now enjoy the Consider This newsletter. We still help you break down a major story of the day,

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