Consider This from NPR - Extremists Face Charges As House Moves Toward Impeachment

Episode Date: January 12, 2021

California Rep. Adam Schiff, who led House Democrats in their first effort to impeach President Trump, tells NPR what they are hoping to achieve in doing it a second time. He spoke to NPR's Mary Louise Kelly. And while a debate about the consequences for Trump plays out on Capitol Hill, his supporters are facing consequences of their own in federal court.In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment that will help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

President Trump is on the verge of becoming the first president in American history impeached by the House of Representatives twice. The clerk will report the title of the resolution. House Resolution 21, resolution calling on Vice President Michael R. Pence. Democrats in the House began the week introducing a resolution that called on Vice President Mike Pence to, quote, convene and mobilize Trump administration cabinet members to activate Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to declare President Donald J. Trump incapable of executing the duties of his office.

Now, because Democrats control the House, that resolution is expected to pass on Tuesday night. But no one, not Pence, nor anyone in President Trump's cabinet seems willing to remove Trump via the 25th Amendment. There is a possibility that after all of this, there's no punishment, no consequence. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi answered Leslie Stahl on 60 Minutes about this. And he could run again for president. And that's one of the motivations that people have for advocating for impeachment.

The House vote is on one article of impeachment, charging the president with incitement of insurrection. And it's set for Wednesday. This president is guilty of inciting insurrection. He has to pay a price for that. Consider this. Between the timing and the resistance from Republicans, it's not likely Trump will be removed from office. But Democrats are determined to impeach him just the same. From NPR, I'm Adi Kornish. It's Tuesday, January 12th. This message comes from NPR sponsor BetterHelp, the online counseling service dedicated to connecting you with a licensed counselor to help you overcome whatever stands in the way of your happiness. Fill out a questionnaire

and get matched with a professional tailored to your needs. And if you aren't satisfied with your counselor, you can request a new one at any time free of charge. Visit betterhelp.com slash consider to get 10% off your first month. Get the help you deserve with BetterHelp.com slash consider to get 10% off your first month. Get the help you deserve with BetterHelp. With civil unrest, the pandemic, and the economic crisis, you want to know what's happening right when you wake up. And that's why there is Up First, the news you need in about 10 minutes from NPR News. Listen every day. It's Consider This from NPR News. Listen every day. It's Consider This from NPR. After Wednesday's impeachment vote in the House, it will be up to the Senate to decide whether to remove President Trump from

office. Two-thirds of senators would need to vote to do that, and that would mean more than a dozen Republicans would have to join Democrats. That seems unlikely so far. Only a couple have even spoken out against the president's actions. I do think the president committed impeachable offenses, but I don't know what is going to land on the Senate floor, if anything. Republican Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania has said President Trump should resign. At least one other Republican senator, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, has said the same. But on Fox News over the weekend, Toomey sounded conflicted about whether he would actually vote to remove the president from office. I don't know whether logistically it's actually even really possible or practical,

and I'm not sure it's desirable to attempt to force him out, what, a day or two or three prior to the day on which he's going to be finished anyway. And logistically, Democrats face some challenges. The Senate is not due back in session until January 19th. Republicans may resist efforts to reconvene the Senate before then, and there's some legal debate about whether a president can be impeached if he's no longer president. But if it comes down to a vote, GOP senators have to go on record supporting the president's removal or not. And the argument for voting no is already taking shape in Republican circles. It would be best if the temperature gets lowered over the next 10 days and not sent to a boiling point.

Stephen Groves, he worked in the White House until June of last year as a special assistant to President Trump and deputy press secretary. He had this exchange with NPR's Mary Louise Kelly on Monday. What should President Trump do now? Well, you know, he's already signaled that there's going to be a transition of power after the inauguration day. He hasn't conceded, actually, but yes, he's acknowledged there'll be a transition. Go on. Well, I don't know how much more he can do until that day, Mayor Louise. This is the argument emerging from some Republicans. The president has said there will be a transition. Let's lower the temperature and move on without impeachment. We see what's happening around this country,

how 50 state houses are being threatened on Inauguration Day. This is the last thing you want to do. That was Fox News anchor Brian Kilmeade on Tuesday morning. He was referring to a warning from the FBI about protests and potential violence in all 50 state capitals next week, ahead of Joe Biden's inauguration. It's not healthy for the nation. We're at an important point. I'm very concerned about where we're at. I hope, I hope we can begin to come back together. And that was Republican Congressman Jim Jordan,

a vocal supporter of the president's efforts to overturn the election. Now, other Republicans, including Senators Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, have called for, quote, unity and healing in the wake of January 6th. And on Tuesday morning, We want no violence, never violence. We want absolutely no violence. And on the impeachment, President Trump spoke to reporters for the first time since that day. For Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer to continue on this path. I think it's causing tremendous danger to our country and it's causing tremendous anger.

I want no violence. Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody. As for how Democrats are responding to calls for unity, healing and the argument that they should be the ones to, quote, lower the temperature. Here's Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who appeared on ABC's This Week on Sunday. So when we talk about healing, the process of healing is separate and in fact requires accountability. And so if we allow insurrection against the United States with impunity, with no accountability, we are inviting it to happen again. That is how serious it is. And I do not believe that that perhaps... Clearly, it's an open question whether any Republicans will join in the effort to impeach Trump, who could still wield a lot of political power among his supporters in the coming years.

Certainly several Republicans have expressed an openness to impeachment. Others have called on the president to resign. What they will actually do when the vote comes up and they're called to account, I can't say. California Congressman Adam Schiff led House Democrats in their first impeachment of the president a year ago. He spoke to Mary Louise Kelly this week about what they hope to achieve in doing it a second time. What is the goal of impeaching a president who only has days left in office? Is it actually removing him from office? Is it drawing a line in the sand? Is it disqualifying him from running ever again? What? Well, the most important goal from my point of view is to remove this dangerous president from office with all speed. That would be best accomplished if he resigned.

That would be in the best interest of the country, but he has rarely considered what's in the best interest of the country. I also have great doubts about the second best alternative, which is Mike Pence invoking the 25th Amendment. That would require a level of courage and backbone that the vice president hasn't demonstrated. And so within our power, we can impeach the president, and I believe we should. You have overwhelming support for this from fellow Democrats. Do you have commitment from Republicans to join you? Well, you know, I think several have made public statements,

like Adam Kinzinger in the Senate. You know, people like Ben Sasse have talked about their openness to an impeachment. But again, you know, I think most of the Republicans in the House, for example, even after we had this violent assault on the Capitol, they went right back to propagating the big lie about the election and seeking to disqualify the votes of millions.

So I hold out little hope for them, but I do hope that it will be bipartisan. Well, I want to tick through and let you answer some of the arguments made by Republicans, Republicans who think impeachment is the wrong way to go. One is that another impeachment drama, another saga of impeachment risks, overshadowing Biden's agenda at a moment when he's going to need the full focus of Congress to solve all kinds of problems, starting with the pandemic. Well, my feeling is that we should impeach in the House with alacrity and send the articles immediately to the Senate to be tried.

And Mitch McConnell could take them up immediately. He's shown every capacity to move quickly to jam justices on the Supreme Court when he has a mind to do so. If his members object, then they will bear the responsibility for exposing the country to whatever Donald Trump does between now and the inauguration. But we could do this very quickly. I think we should do it very quickly,

and that's certainly what we're going to do in the House. And it will be on the Senate how long they draw out this process. But do you think it's realistic that something might happen very quickly? I'll point back to a year ago when you delivered the closing argument in the Senate impeachment trial and you asked people, think about how much more damage President Trump might do to the country. And then you answered your own question and you said a lot. What did you learn from impeachment the last time that informs how you're proceeding now? Well, tragically, I learned that the oath that many members of Congress, House and Senate have taken, they don't give content to.

And that when it comes time to be held accountable, they were not to be found. But now I hope that they've seen the terrible error in that and given another chance to protect the country and fulfill their oath that live up to it. Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff of California. Good afternoon. I'm Stephen D'Antuono, Assistant Director in Charge of the Washington Field Office of the FBI. The story playing out on Capitol Hill is about accountability for the president. The story playing out in federal courtrooms across the country is about

accountability for the people he incited to storm the U.S. Capitol. Dozens of them have been arrested so far, facing all kinds of criminal charges. And the FBI said Tuesday it had more than 160 open cases. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Stephen D'Antonio, assistant director in charge of the FBI's Washington field office, briefing reporters, the first law enforcement briefing in nearly a week following the riot. I'm now going to turn over to acting U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin. All right, thank you, Steve.

Michael Sherwin called the scope and scale of the investigations unprecedented, not just for the FBI, but for the entire U.S. Department of Justice. This is not going to be solved overnight. It's not going to be solved within the coming weeks. It's not going to be solved within the coming months. This is going to be a long-term investigation, and rest assured, the Bureau, the Department of Justice, all the U.S. attorneys across the United States that are assisting these investigations, everyone is in for the long haul. You're listening to Consider This from NPR. I'm Adi Cornish.