Consider This from NPR - For These Exonerated Men, The Fight For Compensation Is About More Than Money

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

Malcolm Alexander and Frederick Clay both spent decades in prison for crimes they didn't commit. Both were eventually exonerated and released.Clay has received compensation from the state of Massachusetts, but Alexander is still battling the state of Louisiana in court. We hear from the two men about what it's like to fight for compensation for their wrongful convictions — and why that fight is about more than just the money.In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University is committed to moving the world forward, working to tackle some of society's biggest challenges. Nine campuses, one purpose. Creating tomorrow, today. More at iu.edu. Malcolm Alexander knows exactly what he'll do if he gets the money he's fighting for. My dog, I want to get a groom. I need to get a toenail, at least a paws cut. He calls his dog In, short for innocent. That's an important word for Malcolm Alexander because he spent nearly 38 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. Now, he's in a court battle with the state of Louisiana for compensation, $400,000.

Well, to me, it proves to be a full apology. The society Malcolm Alexander was forced to leave when he went into prison in 1980 is radically different from the one he returned to when he was exonerated and released in 2018. New technologies, a much different kind of economy. Alexander was able to get a local government job in the drainage department six months after his release. He and his wife are doing okay financially, but for Malcolm, it's about more than the money itself. I would say it's important to me because of the simple fact that so much of my life has been taken away. Because, you know, you have to look at the fact that we was taken out of society that is where you have an opportunity to grow in life, to do something with yourself.

And of course, compensation from the state would mean a big upgrade for in. And I built a doghouse, and I must have didn't build it too sturdy, because we just had that storm up there, Ida, and it blew the doghouse apart. And I said, wow. Well, if it makes you feel better, that storm blew some proper houses down, too. So I'm not sure any comment on your carpentry. So I was sitting going out and really trying to get me some bricks and, you know, actually build her a brick dog house. Consider this, thousands of people have been exonerated in the U.S. For many, getting released from prison marks the start of another fight, seeking compensation for the years they spent behind bars.

From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. It's Monday, December 26th. it's consider this from npr frederick clay has a lot in common with malcolm alexander who we heard from earlier they both spent 38 years in prison because of a wrongful conviction unlike malcolm fred has received compensation a million dollars from the state of Massachusetts. Hello. Hello. I can't see nobody except myself. I can see you, Fred. I'll keep it the way it is. That's okay. We got them together on Zoom.

As long as other people can see me, that's fine. I see you. You got your glasses on top of your head. Yeah. After we worked out the technical issues, I asked them how it felt to meet a stranger who had been in their same situation. Well, I would say this out of fear. You know, in the process that we both have just went through, our daily and our life, to me, you know, it was like standing in front of a loaded gun, you know, and being told that they give me everything you have. And after you cooperate in every possible way, you still became that fatal victim. And this is what I would say that me and Fred and many others have experienced. You're saying that's what the justice system felt like to you.

Exactly. Fred, do you relate to that metaphor? Yes, I do. Because the justice system, in my experience, doesn't really care about people being innocent. They only care about getting convictions and patting their resume. Let's talk about the financial compensation aspect of this. I mean, money can't make up for the decades that you spent incarcerated.

Fred, what can money do? What can the compensation achieve for you? Well, it can achieve a little bit more stability. It can give people a little bit more independence. Whether people want to get into an apartment or buy a car or get education, they can spend some of that money on education. It gives people a little bit more flexibility to do what they want to do on their own. Was there something after you got that compensation from the state that you treated yourself to? Yes, I treated myself to jumping out of a plane. Oh my, you went skydiving? Yes. Seriously? I did that twice. Twice? Wow. That is not what I expected you to say. So when I got the money, I treated myself to skydiving. I think I would pay to not do that. Was it worth it? Yes, it was. Why was that the thing you chose?

There's a couple of reasons. It made me feel like I was totally free. And also when I was in prison and I was talking to some guys, we watched things on WGBH channel two about skydiving. They say they wanted to do that. I said I wanted to do that. So it was because some of these people that I talked to are no longer living now. They passed away. So I was like,

okay, I'm doing this for such and such a person. I'm doing this for me. Wow. It made me actually feel like I was truly free. Fred, I can relate to that because I want to go

bungee jumping. Go on. I want to do that too. I haven't done that yet, but I want to do that too. I think you guys should go together. That would be nice. I didn't want skydive, but I want to do that too. I think you guys should go together. That would be nice. But I didn't want to skydive, but I actually wanted to go bungee jumping

and I wanted to go over to the Grand Canyon where you can walk out on that glass floor and look down at the Grand Canyon. Like I say, it's a feeling of total freedom, like floating. Yes. I can relate to that you know I also did hang gliding too

that's nice and it gave me it made me feel like I had a bird's eye view of the world looking down and it made me feel free totally free you guys are braver than i am well you've both overcome an enormous hurdle which is proving your innocence

and getting released from prison setting apart setting aside the compensation question. If there are people listening who are still incarcerated and still working on achieving that step, what advice do you have for them? Mine would be to never give up. I mean, what it is to give up on, you know, because you got to understand you didn't do it and you have family members who believe in the fact that you didn't do it. You have friends who believe in it. You have a community that who believes in it. It's just that the justice system is, like you say, it just doesn't work all the time properly.

You know, and innocent, you being innocent proves that. But the thing is, if you give up, you got to realize not you just giving up on yourself. You giving up on your family. Because like I said, you're not the only one that's incarcerated. They have incarcerated your family. So, you know, you fight. You fight. You fight not just for you.

You fight for your family. You fight to get back what your love want. You know, you fight to show that no, you is wrong. Fred, what do you think of that? the situations that not only were we lied on, but also the victim family was being lied to also. You know, I asked at the beginning of this conversation whether there was anything you wanted to say to each other. You really didn't know each other at all at that point. Now that you've gotten a chance to get to know each other and chat a little bit,

is there any parting thought you want to share with one another? Well, I will say I'm glad Fred made it. I'm glad he has gotten the chance to do the things that he wanted to do and even more to come. And he proved to me to be me, you know, in the sense of saying, you know, regardless of how many years I may have done or how long I was there, I never gave up hope.

I never stopped fighting, you know? And so to that, you know, I applaud. I'm glad you're home, man. I'm glad you're home too.

And I want to applaud you, even though we had setbacks, you know, pursuing our litigations and trying to, you know, do what we need to do to prove our innocence. I'm glad that you had due diligence. I'm glad that you didn't give up. You might probably got discouraged just like I did. I got discouraged at different times, but I'm glad that once we get past our disappointments, we still stuck to maintain our innocence and continue to fight. Frederick Clay in Massachusetts and Malcolm Alexander in Louisiana, both men were wrongfully convicted and spent decades in prison

before being exonerated. Thank you both so much for talking with us. Thank you. Thank you. That wasn't the end of the conversation, though, at least not for Fred and Malcolm. Before we hang up, the gentleman, I... Oh, you want to get each other's contact info so you can go bungee jumping?

Yes. Okay, I'll let the two of you share that with each other. I definitely want to go bungee jumping. You want to take my phone number now? Let me get a pen real quick. Once it's over, we can call each other. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro. This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University is committed to moving the world forward, working to tackle some

of society's biggest challenges. Nine campuses, one purpose. Creating tomorrow, today. More at iu.edu.