Consider This from NPR - For weeks students have protested the war in Gaza — now things are escalating

Episode Date: May 1, 2024

From New York — to Illinois — to Los Angeles — encampments in support of Palestinians dot campuses across the country.And over the last couple of days the tension has only increased as police have intervened on several campuses, including Columbia University, UCLA and the University of Texas. Hundreds of protestors have been arrested.Pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses are growing in scope and intensity, and colleges are calling on law enforcement to help. Is it the right decision, and what happens next?For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

At Columbia University, Tuesday, April 30th marked the first day of the study period for final exams. But that Tuesday morning also marked a further increase in campus protests of Israel's war in Gaza when dozens of pro-Palestinian protesters occupied an administration building. The occupation lasted well into the night. Then around 9.30 that night, NYPD officers in riot gear brandishing shields and zip ties moved onto campus, arresting dozens. At one point, the NYPD used a large tactical vehicle to push a bridge into the window of that administration building, officers pouring through. NPR's Brian Mann was at the scene talking to some of the students, many of which fear reprisal from the university. Myself and many other students have just felt horror seeing the swiftness with which the NYPD came and deployed themselves onto our campus.

Student journalists at Columbia University covered the chaos and emotional fallout on their campus radio station. What happened here tonight was anything but impersonal. It was anything but something that you can just shake off as having nothing to do with Columbia. We know these people. If you're listening right now and you're a to do with Columbia. We know these people. If you're listening right now and you're a student, you probably know some of these people. That same night, less than a mile away, police cracked down on protesters at City College. The officer voluntarily to the prisoner transport vehicle will resist arrest. You may be charged with additional crime.

Consider this. Pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses are only growing in scope and intensity, and colleges are calling on law enforcement to help. Coming up, we discuss what happens when law enforcement is used against student protests, and what happens next. From NPR, I'm Juana Summers. It's Consider This from NPR. From New York to Illinois to Los Angeles, encampments in support of Palestinians dot campuses across the country. And over the last couple of days, the tension has only increased as police have

intervened on several campuses, including Tuesday night at Columbia University, as well as at UCLA when protesters and counter-protesters began fighting. Juliette Kayyem assesses national and international security threats. She was a Homeland Security Advisor in the Obama administration and for Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick. Now she's the Belfer Senior Lecturer in International Security at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. I want to talk about a number of aspects of what we've been seeing recently, but let's start on the campus of Columbia University, where campus officials have been trying to bring an end to the encampment since Monday. And Monday night, protesters took over Hamilton Hall. Tuesday, a massive force of NYPD officers and riot gear moved onto that campus.

They cleared Hamilton Hall without taking a position one way or the other. What's the tipping point for a decision like that? So I talk to people who are at Columbia. I work with people who are helping Columbia. And my youngest is going to Columbia next year. So you could say I have a very strong interest in hoping that they can not just deescalate what's going on, but get back to being a great university that we all know it is. And so one of the things that was surprising looking on the outside was simply the vulnerability of the main building for being taken over. These are the basic things that can be put in place before to essentially help to de-escalate

a situation that can get out of hand. But there is a difference between protest and unlawful trespass. There just is. And even if you support the protesters, the taking over of a building, the destruction of parts of the building, and the impact it had on the functioning of the college and university, and there'll be debates about that, justified having a tiered approach to getting them out. What I recommend and what I've been saying is not only do colleges and universities have to have outlets for these students, you can't pretend that you could just like silence an entire viewpoint. These are legitimate protests about a

very difficult issue that lots of people are passionate about. But secondly, you have to provide off-ramps for protesters in terms of escalation techniques. And so, you know, sending the police out originally really provided no opportunity from going from, you know, basically, you know, DEFCON 5, which is different, and that's at Brown, where the administration agreed to discuss student divestment plans to vote on it later in the year. Protests there evaporated. What do you make of that approach versus what we've seen on so many other campuses? I'm only laughing is because you're going to think I have 20 children, but I have another child at Brown University, and I'm well aware of not just Brown, but you saw it at Wesleyan, you saw it at Northwestern, other schools that are trying to deescalate. That's the responsibility of an institution. It's a responsibility of public

safety. Whatever you think of the protesters, the responsibility of leadership is to deescalate. And I think what Brown showed itself willing to do is to actually listen, to not say it's outside agitators or these are Hamas or Hezbollah funded entities. These are students with ideas. That's why they're in college. And they have ideas that they want to bring to the table. And I think Brown's willingness to listen and to provide a forum outside of protests where the students can be heard, and that's going to be in the fall when the board meets, is essential and was essential for the students to feel like their university wasn of outside agitators or bad actors. It's something we heard New York Mayor Eric Adams say that that was part of the reason why there were police deployed to protest in his city. But it's a narrative that we've heard not just about these campus protests, but also about so many other protest movements throughout history. So who exactly are we talking about when we say an outside agitator? What does that mean? It's a great question because

I have no doubt that there are outsiders in the sense of non-affiliates of the college or university who are utilizing the energy at a college or university to make their point. But outside agitator can mean a lot of things. I mean, when the mayor says it, does he mean, you know, foreign influences? Does he mean these are stupid students that are being paid for by terrorist organizations to protest Israel? I mean, we have to be really clear what we mean by outside agitators. I will say, I can't deny it, right? And it is true that we know foreign entities like to manipulate the divisions in our society, and there's every reason to believe that they are doing this now. We also know that many of the arrests on these campuses are of people who are non-affiliates. So absolutely correct. But to to argue that what we're seeing on colleges and campuses is some outward force manipulating young

people not only makes us sound old, but really undermines the capacity to de-escalate in these situations because it's sort of treating it as some like foreign alien that you can just get rid of. What's happening on college and university campuses and what's happening in American society is a questioning of longstanding U.S. policy and a belief that the way the war is being waged is no longer defensible. The war by Israel in Gaza is no longer defensible. Is there anti-Semitism in that movement? Absolutely. And I condemn it. Are there outside influences taking advantage of it, including political entities? Absolutely. But there is also something there, and we should give these students credit for their own minds and their own thinking, because that's actually why they're in the

colleges and universities. Julianne, if the ultimate goal of all of these efforts is indeed de-escalation to keep everyone safe, do you think that's possible at this point? Yes, I do. I mean, you know, we're focusing on, say, at worst, a dozen colleges and universities. But if you look at where the protests are occurring, it's not these elite colleges where we pay all of our attention. It is across the country. And I think it's reflecting a deep sentiment that voices want to be heard about U.S. policy and about university policies or investment decisions that they've made

in the past. But what we're seeing on colleges and universities is a reflection of the divisions in our foreign policy. We can solve the issue at hand, but we're not going to solve the overall problem. That's not going to get solved for a while. Juliette Kayyem is the Belfer Senior Lecturer in International Security at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. She is also the author of several books, including The Devil Never Sleeps. Juliette, thank you. Thank you for having me.

This episode was produced by Mark Rivers and Brianna Scott. It was edited by Courtney Dorney. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Juana Summers.