Consider This from NPR - George Floyd Case: Trial Of Former Police Officer Derek Chauvin Underway

Episode Date: March 9, 2021

Jury selection in the highly anticipated trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin began Tuesday after being delayed amid an effort to gain clarity on the potential of a third-degree murder charge. Chauvin faces charges in the killing of George Floyd last Memorial Day. Jamiles Lartey, who reports on criminal justice and policing for The Marshall Project, explains the delay. NPR's Leila Fadel and Adrian Florido have been covering the trial in Minneapolis. Benjamin Crump, the attorney representing the family of George Floyd, argues that civil suits could deter police violence — even if settlements aren't accompanied by a criminal conviction. In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment that will help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for NPR and the following message come from Carnegie Corporation of New York, working to reduce political polarization through philanthropic support for education, democracy, and peace. More information at carnegie.org. Typically, we might start a story about a trial on the steps of a courthouse. But the murder trial of Derek Chauvin, the Minneapolis police officer caught on film kneeling on the neck of George Floyd for almost nine minutes. It's not just any trial. Most of downtown Minneapolis, and especially the block where the trial is being held, is barricaded in fencing, barbed wire, and patrolled by National Guardsmen. There's been a knot in my stomach for the last few days leading up to this because I'm not sure we're going to see justice.

So Lisa Kelly has been protesting on the closest corner she could get to the Hennepin County Courthouse. And instead of a cardboard sign, she brought mirrors. We haven't forgotten the way MPD brutalized this city and its citizens for peacefully protesting all summer long. We haven't forgotten that there still hasn't been justice. And so our message to them today is to reflect. She told NPR's Leila Fadal that she plans to hold them up if police officers approach, ask them to reflect on their actions. The protests and the riots may have been a thing of last year, but we're still here.

We're still grieving. We're still angry. We still want to see justice. So yeah, we'll be out here all day. Consider this. George Floyd's death sparked a year of mass protests, pledges from corporate America and social media campaigns. But so far, none of that has translated to major changes in the way these cases play out in criminal courtrooms. And that means the question of how to hold police accountable for violence is still an open one. From NPR, I'm Adi Cornish. It's Tuesday, March 9th. This message comes from NPR sponsor 3M, who is using science and innovation to help the world respond to COVID-19. 3M plants are running around

the clock, producing more than 95 million respirators per month in the U.S. In addition, 3M has also maximized production of other solutions, including biopharma filtration, hand sanitizers, and disinfectants. Learn more at 3M.com slash COVID. 3M science applied to life. We are still in the middle of this pandemic. And right now, having science news you can trust, from variants to vaccines, is essential. NPR Shortwave has your back. About 10 minutes every weekday, listen and subscribe to Shortwave, the daily science podcast from NPR. It's Consider This from NPR. It's Consider This from NPR. What do you know about this case from

media reports? What podcast do you listen to? Have you ever been restrained or put in a chokehold, for example, by law enforcement or during a self-defense class? Yes or no? These are among the questions in a survey that went out to potential jurors in the trial of Derek Chauvin. You are juror number two, is that correct? Yes. On Tuesday morning, potential jurors began the vetting process, and lawyers on both sides of the case can use the survey answers as a jumping-off point to suss out biases a juror might have, to disqualify those they feel have already formed an opinion about the case. But who in this country hasn't heard about the death of George Floyd? You were obviously aware of this case before you received your jury notice?

I was aware of the case, yes. Here's Chauvin's attorney, Eric Nelson, questioning juror number two. Their identities are kept anonymous. About his answers to the screening questionnaire. You use the word killed in it to describe the death of George Floyd. Do you think that the use of that word is demonstrative of your opinion about this case? Could you read the full context of that for me? I would be happy to. He was put in the back of their car but escaped and was killed when Chauvin knelt on his neck area. I wouldn't say that it's demonstrative of my opinion.

I think that what I was attempting to convey... The juror explained that because he's not a legal expert, he doesn't consider himself qualified to determine whether it was a murder. But based on media coverage, it appeared to him that Floyd's death was, quote, out of his control. And do you attribute responsibility for that to my client sitting here today based on the media presentation? I don't think I can say one way or another. I mean, not here. You know, maybe at the time I had an opinion, but with some distance, I don't think I can say. Okay. So your opinion or your perspective has evolved over time? Is that what you would say?

Yeah, I'd say that. Nearly an hour later, after both sides had questioned your number two, Judge Roger Cahill announced... You will be on the street. Again, you're not an investigator. Do not go and investigate. Try and avoid all media coverage of this case. Jury selection will likely take weeks, with each potential juror answering similar questions. Opening arguments aren't expected until the week of March 29th. It's rare to see a police officer tried for murder. It's nearly unheard of to see a conviction. What we know is that roughly 1,000 or 1,100 people are killed by police every year. And typically it's less than, it's in, you know,

the maybe double digits, single digits each year, the number of police who are tried. Jamiles Larte reports on criminal justice and police for the Marshall Project. Believe it or not, the most common reason why police officers are actually tried for crimes and killings is traffic accidents, not for intentional uses of force. But yeah, it's typically in the single digits, convictions are even much more rare. With such low odds, Larte says the prosecutors in a trial like Derek Chauvin's need to use every avenue they can. The prosecution wanted to reinstate a charge of third-degree murder against Chauvin, which the court needs time to consider. Larte explained to NPR's Mary Louise Kelly the reason for bringing a more severe charge to a case like this.

Prosecutors tend to give a whole series of charges that the jury can convict. So if you don't feel that the evidence has met the requirements for this top charge, you can consider this next one. So it's certainly fair to say the reinstatement of this charge would increase the likelihood of Chauvin being convicted of something. But what will you be watching for when this trial does get underway in terms of what prosecutors will need to demonstrate to try to get a conviction from the jury here? One of the main things I'll be watching for is just the volume of witnesses. There's been, I believe, something in the neighborhood of 500 witnesses listed between the prosecution and the defense. I think it'll be interesting to see who does and does not get called. And that will give us a sense of what the prosecution

thinks its best line of attack is. Another thing to watch out for is just obviously all of the emotion and energy around the trial in Minneapolis and around the country, what this does to our national conversation, to our national energy around this question of race and policing. Do you see things changing? Do you see any kind of shift in terms of more police being charged or more convictions being won in these type incidents? I think it's too early to say that. I think it's too early to make sort of direct comparisons. We're still in this moment, right? I don't even think it's fair to say that we're in a post-summer 2020 George Floyd protest moment. I think that moment persists right now.

Certainly what we can say is that a lot of jurisdictions from the local level to the state level have taken up some of these questions. Broadly, what we've seen is three baskets of reforms. We've seen in the aftermath of Breonna Taylor's death, we've seen a lot of energy around reforming the use of no-knock warrants. After George Floyd's death, we've seen a number of laws that are built around addressing chokeholds or carotid control holds or different types of holds that involve the neck or the upper back and restricting a person's windpipe. More generally, some of these laws have endeavored to address the broader systemic issues like qualified immunity that just apply to the profession at large.

Jamiles Larte, he reports on criminal justice and policing for the Marshall Project. For a high-profile case like this one, typically the courtroom would be full of the victim's family. But because of the pandemic, only one family member of George Floyd's is allowed in at a time. On Monday, that was his sister, Bridget Floyd, who watched as the lawyers discussed pretrial motions. I sat in the courtroom today and looked at the officer who took my brother's life. She made a statement at the end of the day. I just really wanted that officer to know how much love Floyd had, not only by me and his family, but you guys too and the people around the country. It's a journey to justice.

You know, you take two steps forward, then you sometimes take a step back. Going back to 2006, Benjamin Crump has helped secure settlements worth tens of millions of dollars for the family members of people killed by police. He's one of the attorneys for George Floyd's family. Now, many of Crump's past settlements, they haven't been accompanied by a criminal conviction. And when we spoke this week, Crump made the argument that the money alone is still enough to help reduce incidences of police violence. I think we're a capitalistic society. And the more these city governments have to take their budget as compensation to these families, the more they're going to make changes so they don't have to keep paying out money.

Benjamin Crump, you know, the first time I encountered you was in the Panama City, Florida case of Martin Anderson, who was the young man who was killed after being beaten by deputies at a juvenile boot camp. And he would have turned 30 years old last month. You're shaking your head remembering that case. It's so tragic. Martin Anderson's case was Trayvon Martin before Trayvon Martin. The internet had not quite taken off, but that young boy was kicked, punched, suffocated on that video surveillance. And even though we got the largest amount ever paid out by the state of Florida for an individual wronged for death, not one of those eight guards who kicked him and punished him and put ammonia tablets up his nose were convicted. And in fact, the alt-right here in Panama City

only stayed out for an hour and a half and said that, you know, everything was justified, that this 14-year-old child would have nobody held accountable for killing him. Looking back at that case, as you said, while there was a financial settlement in it and the state of Florida ended up getting rid of those juvenile boot camps altogether. They're banned. Does it feel like there has been progress since then? No, there has been progress. It's unfortunate. We have to remember, it's just been in the last 30 years where Black people even got civil compensation for the police killing us. I mean, they used to just kill us and nothing, no form of justice.

So George Floyd, unlike Breonna Taylor and so many others, has an opportunity to get a civil resolution in the civil courts, but also a chance to get criminal justice, which so many of our white brothers and sisters take for granted. At this point, what would you consider progress, so to speak? I mean, is there an actual benchmark? Is there something that you would look for to say, my work has become meaningful? Well, it's quite straightforward.

Progress would be justice, and justice would be them still here with us living. That we don't have these hashtags that become household names. The few that do become household names, because we have to remember there were 1,300 people on average killed by police in America. And out of those 1,300, we've really only come to know four or five names each year. And can you imagine the other families who nobody ever talks about, how that must make them feel about the value of their loved one? That's Benjamin Crump. He's an attorney who represents the family of George Floyd. You're listening to Consider This from NPR. I'm Audie Cornish.