Consider This from NPR - Hostage's brother-in-law: we haven't matured enough as a region to coexist peacefully

Episode Date: October 12, 2025

NPR's Andrew Limbong speaks with Moshe Lavi, the brother-in-law of Omri Miran, who has been held hostage by Hamas since October 7, 2023. Lavi explains the challenges ahead for Israelis and Palestinians in healing from the events of the past two years - and whether he thinks the peace brokered by President Trump is sustainable.For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail]. This episode was produced by Erika Ryan, with audio engineering by Hannah Gluvna. It was edited by Ahmad Damen. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Phase one of a 20-point peace plan between Israel and Hamas, brokered by President Trump, is underway. I dreamed of this night. It's been a long journey. That was Middle East envoy Steve Whitkoff. He, Jared Kushner, and Ivanka Trump addressed crowds in Tel Aviv Saturday night, ahead of the exchange of Israeli hostages for Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Throughout the remarks, the crowd was thanking them and cheered one name, specifically. Thank you Trump. Thank you Trump.

And booed another. To Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Oh. But even as President Trump travels to the Middle East to celebrate the deal, there's still a lot of uncertainty for Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Here's NPR's Anas Baba in Gaza. I walk through Gaza's city now. And what was yesterday filled with it?

Earth strikes and tanks and everything from the Israelis is now slowly welcoming its own people back. It feels like I'm witnessing a place being born again. Israeli troops have pulled back within Gaza, and Palestinians there were told they are free to return to their homes. But in reality, many are returning to rubble. Even still, Ghazans remain hopeful. Here's Baba again. Men returned first, searching for what's left. Some mark the dirt now for tents. Others, they clear the rubble for barely standing homes here just to spend the night inside. They are simply glad that there are some walls are still standing.

On every corner, there is reunion, silent in places, dust-covered faces, pressed together. The joy of surviving here doesn't erase the grief, yes. But for a moment, it holds closer. Israel erased and demolished most of the city, to be honest. but there is entire blocks now, looks like an open graves, only deprees. But Gazans here, they don't wait for permission to live. They carry hope like oxygen. Gaza is not only rubble.

Gaza is resilience. Let's zoom out a bit because there are still questions to answer. Who will govern Gaza? How engaged will President Trump continue to be through the next stages of the peace deal? And here's the big one. Do the people, directly affected by the war, see this as the beginning of peace. Consider this.

The implementation of a 20-point peace plan is a long road, and both parties have only agreed on the first phase. It's also the end of an excruciating waiting period for both Israeli and Palestinian families. Will the troops hold up once hostages are safely home? After the break, we'll hear from a family member of one Israeli hostage, who's among those expected to return home as part of the negotiations. From NPR, I'm Angela Lombong.

It's considered this from NPR. During the October 7th attacks by Hamas militants in Israel two years ago, over 1,200 Israelis were murdered and 251 more were taken hostage into Gaza. Some of those kidnapped were ripped away from families, taken in front of their children. People like Omri Moran, who is one of the 20 living hostages set to head home. We asked Moran's brother-in-law, Moshe, about what this moment means and his perspective on the possibility of sustained peace. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you.

What was your reaction to hearing the news that a ceasefire deal was made? I was in Washington, D.C. last week when the announcement was made. I was there with my sister, Marie's wife, Lishai. We were advocating last week with the Trump administration, held a vigil for the October 7th attack with members of the administration, including Secretary of State Mark Yorubio. And then the day after, the announcement came, it was a moment of joy for many of us who were there,

and of course, those families who were in Israel. We gather together. We put out a statement immediately. I was asked to speak, and so I was the one who was transmitting the message, and immediately after the White House, tweeted it and shared it widely. And then we went to process it together, and there, where we gather in the house of one of the members of the Hostess Missing Families Forum in D.C., Secretary of Commerce, Howard Lutnik, joined us with his wife, and at some point he called President.

Trump, for the one speaker, we were able to hear directly from the president that he reached a deal. We thanked him and congratulating him, reminded him as well of the 48th hostages who will need to be returned as part of the deal. We were so grateful for him taking the time to speak with us. And then the night continued, and we rushed back to Israel the following day. And we arrived here on Friday, and since then began processing everything and preparing for Marie's arrival, hopefully, tomorrow. You actually, you spoke to my colleague back in September 2024. This was after the bodies of six hostages were recovered from a tunnel in Gaza.

I want to play you a bit of what you said. Here's the tape. We'll keep holding the international community accountable. We'll keep going to the media and share our story. We have to, for them, for the hostages who can still be rescued. And I hope this will be, this will change. This terrible news that we receive will change the question. It's been over a year since you said that.

And it appears as if things have substantially changed. The remaining hostages are coming home. I guess my question is, did you think this moment would come? I was always hopeful. We can't operate and advocate without hope leading us. Otherwise, we'll focus on the despair. And so I was always hopeful that something will happen, that we will return. But at the same time, I was realistic.

that this is a very complex process negotiating with a terrorist organization and of course having other priorities within a larger conflict that at times override the priority we have which is the redemption of our captives returning them home and I'm happy we've reached that point although I've yet to see it I still can't believe it's going to happen because it seems so far-fetch if you've asked me two weeks ago that will happen so quickly but then again it is supposed to happen tomorrow morning and we're excited for it but trying to be as cautious as possible because we were disappointed so many times before is it one of those things you're not going to believe that until he's like in your arms exactly yeah until omri hugs lishai until he embraces

their two daughters running alma four years old and two and a half years old yeah i was wondering about his kids, what have you been telling them? How are they doing, first off? You know, it has been very difficult for them. They survived October the 7th. And they were held captive themselves alongside my sister Lishai at gunpoint by Hamas terrorists who barge into their home, grouped them with another family, invaded their kibbutz, and they've been managing to grow up and and become extraordinary two girls, very proud of them, and especially Roni, who was four years old, and so she remembers a lot of what happened that day, the trauma carries with her, and she also remembers Omri very well. We shared with them cautiously that we had successful meetings

in the US, and that Omri might be returning soon. We don't know exactly when, but that's the way to transmit the message and hopefully they begin processing it and it seems like they're very excited about the possibility of meeting their father again and having a father figure in the household. Yeah. It's been two years of waiting. What have you been telling them about Omri to just sort of keep his memory, keep his life alive in their heads and hearts? with Roney it wasn't an issue to be honest she remembers him so well I'm very impressed by

how much memory she's able to store as a four years old she remembers of being on his bicycle with him she remembers wishing goodnight to the stars almost every night he would take her out and they will wish good night to the world and she still insists on that ritual with my sister the shy she remembers specific moments and then lafters and his embrace she speaks to him and all the time dreams of him

with alma it's a different story because she was only six months old and so she doesn't remember when we she doesn't know who he is beyond the poster as she grew older over the past two years we try to explain to her it's not only a poster it's her father he's a living a person He used to be present in the house that they used to live in in Nakhaloz and shared a bit about who he is and what he was for Rony as a father figure. And she's very excited to meet him because she never really is, like she never met him in a way she can remember. So we'll see how that's going to unfold in the next couple of days and weeks. I'm sure it's going to be a process for them to digest having Omri back, hopefully, and will be a process for Omri as well, to be in a place of love and care after enduring so much suffering, torture, abuse, starvation, dervation of water, sanitary condition, any basic human rights, and it will be a long process of healing, but I'm confident we'll be able to master that. After we mastered the last two years and after he managed to survive in captivity of one of the harshest and most brutal terrorist organization in the world.

I want to ask you about the bigger picture here. Do you believe, given the development over the past few days, that there can be sustained peace? I think in the long term, yes. I also believe that through terrible crises, conflicts, a more lasting peace can be achieved, just like we saw in other cases, in Europe, especially a continent that needed two devastating wars so that countries could coexist together, recognize each other after centuries of fighting. I hope that will be eventually the case with the Palestinians in the wider region. I don't believe it's going to be in my lifetime, sadly. I think we have not matured enough as a region to coexist peacefully long term. But I'm sure eventually this conflict will be resolved. I wish those involved in the conflict realize that it's

better to resolve it now and avoid unnecessary bloodshed, making compromises, recognize each other's rights and aspirations. But I don't think we're there, I'm afraid. But President Trump did lay out a foundation for a wider regional arrangement that is better than the one that existed before October the 7th, in my opinion, and the possibility of reducing friction in the wider region, incorporate in other countries in the Abraham Accords, and hopefully seeing Gaza rising from the rubble to become a more sustainable place for the Palestinians, but also for us Israelis, because between 2005 after the disengagement plan and until October the 7th, we allowed a terrorist space to grow just beyond the border.

And that was unacceptable as someone who grew up in steroid and endured terrorism throughout my life. It was an unacceptable condition. That was Moshele-in-law of Israeli hostage in Gaza, Omar and Iran. Moshelevi, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. This episode was produced by Eric. Orion with audio engineering by Hannah Glovena. It was edited by Amad Daman and Sarah Robbins.

Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. It's considered this from NPR. I'm Andrew Limbong.