Consider This from NPR - How EPA Plans To Keep East Palestine Residents Safe After Derailment

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

The Environmental Protection Agency says tests have not shown any contamination of air or drinking water linked to the train derailment near East Palestine, Ohio.But residents in the area still have safety concerns.NPR's Ari Shapiro asks EPA Administrator Michael Regan about those concerns and about the agency's response to the disaster.In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

The beginning of the disaster in East Palestine, Ohio, is clear. February 3rd, just before 9 p.m. Eastern. That's when a Norfolk Southern train pulling 20 cars carrying hazardous materials derailed, sparking an enormous fire. Adam Cornwell lives about a mile away, just over the Pennsylvania border. Well, I felt my house shake, and I thought the neighbor's house was on fire. Until I went up over the hill, it looked like the whole town was on fire. The end of the disaster is much less clear. Officials say they've tested air and water for hazardous chemicals, and they have not detected levels of concern. Here's Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro speaking last week.

I've authorized testing of all of the wells on the Pennsylvania side and the public water system to ensure that local residents have the comfort of knowing what's coming out of the tap is safe. We've seen no concerning readings yet, but we're going to continue to test for months and months and months, if not years. But many residents of the area still feel unsafe. Some have reported nausea, headaches, red eyes, and rashes. Then there's the question of cleanup and what happens to the waste and contaminated soil from East Palestine. I know there are folks in other states with concerns,

legitimate concerns, about how this waste is being transported and how it will be disposed of. On Saturday, Deborah Shore, regional administrator at the Environmental Protection Agency, temporarily paused the shipment of hazardous waste out of East Palestine. Officials in Texas and Michigan had expressed alarm that Norfolk Southern had shipped some of the material to disposal facilities in their states. In a statement, Norfolk Southern had shipped some of the material to disposal facilities in their states. In a statement, Norfolk Southern said the disposal met state and federal regulations. On Monday, the shipment was set to resume to two disposal sites in Ohio.

Everyone wants this contamination gone from the community. They don't want the worry and they don't want the worry, and they don't want the smell. And we owe it to the people of East Palestine to move it out of the community as quickly as possible. Consider this. The EPA says the emergency response in East Palestine is transitioning into an environmental cleanup phase. We'll hear from the head of the agency about the federal government's plan and how he's addressing local concerns. From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. Send, spend, or receive money internationally,

and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com. T's and C's apply. It's Consider This from NPR. The Environmental Protection Agency has taken a hard line on the operator of the train that derailed in Ohio. At a news conference last week, EPA Administrator Michael Regan said Norfolk Southern will pay for the cleanup, and if they don't, he said, the EPA will do the job and charge the company triple the cost. I talked with Administrator Regan about the road ahead for East Palestine last week, beginning with residents' concerns about the health risks to the community.

Before we get to the company's accountability, I want to talk about the safety of people living in the area. So far, EPA has said tests have not shown any contamination of air or drinking water linked to the derailment, but more tests are being done. How much more information do you need before you can conclusively say that this spill does not pose a risk to locals? EPA will continue to test the ambient air quality for anyone who has concerns about their indoor air quality. We're asking them to reach out to us and we will come into their homes and test that air quality. The state of Ohio is leading continuous water quality testing. We are providing support in that testing as well. We recognize that people are concerned about their air and water quality, not just now, but for the medium and long term.

What does that mean? Months? Years? How long do you intend to keep testing? For as long as it takes. We are going to be with this community throughout this process. They will not have to manage this crisis alone. Yesterday on the program, we heard from a local hunter in Pennsylvania named Adam Cornwell, who said he has heard about animals dying. Those are reports that

we've not independently verified, but he told us this. I don't want to eat the deer if they're breathing in that contaminants, you know, so I pretty much can't hunt here no more. Do you think that's an appropriate concern? You know, we have heard that concern as well. And the state of Ohio is leading that investigation. What the state of Ohio has told us is that they did see an initial impact to some wildlife during the beginning of the disaster, but have not seen any lingering effects from it. And so, yes, there were fish floating in the rivers, but the state of Ohio is investigating that. And I encourage local hunters and everyone who is curious about it or concerned about it

to reach out to the state of Ohio to get the latest information. This might sound nitpicky, but there's an important distinction between we've not seen evidence that this is harmful and we have demonstrated that this is safe. I know you said the first. Are you able to say the second? You know, I believe that we are based on the science. Now, I recognize that no matter how much data we collect or provide, it may not be enough to restore that sense of safety and security. But what I can say is, with the air quality analysis we've done, and we're using some of the most high experience technology that we have for both air and water, the data is coming back demonstrating that there are no levels of concern for adverse health impacts. As you said, people don't necessarily believe the federal government.

Americans have lost their faith in institutions. Beyond telling people that you've tested the air and water and found a reason for concern, how can you get folks to have confidence in their infrastructure? How can you get folks to believe you? Number one, we have to continue to show up and we have to be in these communities and we have to be very transparent, bringing the data to them, but also making all of the data easily accessible. I believe that if we make all of our data transparent, those who are skeptical can use third parties to verify it. If we are in the community explaining the information, providing them the resources, we believe over time we will be able to rebuild that trust. But we know that that's a long journey.

Let's talk about your promise that Norfolk Southern will pay for this. How specifically can EPA enforce that? How do you keep that promise? When bad actors pollute, as Norfolk Southern has done, when they inflict trauma, we have the authorities under our CERPA law to take the actions that we're taking. And so what we're going to do is we're going to hold the company accountable to provide to us a work plan that lays out every single step for how they will clean up the soil, how they will clean up the water, and how they will continue to pay for testing. If they do not do this, we can step in, provide those services to the community with no break in action, and we can find this company up to $70,000 a day. By the way, after we complete those tasks, we can go back and go after this

company for three times the amount that the government has to come out of pocket for. You know, you referred to Norfolk Southern as a bad actor. You said this is the mess that they created. Others have described it as an accident. Is it fair to call them a bad actor? Well, you know, what I would say is I won't get out in front of the investigation being led by the Department of Transportation and Pete Buttigieg. But what I will say is they've had a number of opportunities to demonstrate that they are going to be with this community. But at the first opportunity during a town hall meeting, they decided to not show up. Listen, they said that was because of safety risks and threats to the well-being of the people who were scheduled to be there. I don't know whether those risks were real, but if people felt that their lives

were threatened, you could imagine why they might not show up. Well, you know, there were risks associated and threats associated with our organization as well and others that were in attendance. This was an important event to be at. There was adequate security in the location, and Norfolk Southern should have been there and could have been there, just like state, local, federal, community leaders, those who have been impacted. They made the wrong decision. They have to show up and they have to make amends with this community. They caused this mess. They have to clean it up and they have to prove to us and to the community that they're genuine in all of the declarations that job is done. That question of when the job is done is a subjective one. So what does the finish line look like to you? You know, the finish line looks like returning this community back to the state it was before the trauma was inflicted. The finish line is something that not only will EPA and state and local

governments determine, but the communities will be involved in that. We will clean up this mess together, holding North Southern accountable to do the work and to pay for it. But this is a longer-term process. But rest assured, we will be there until the job is finished. Michael Regan is the administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.