Consider This from NPR - How Nancy Pelosi came to call the shots

Episode Date: August 7, 2024

Speaker of the House Emerita Nancy Pelosi once told Washington Post Columnist Karen Tumulty quote "Nobody ever gives away power. If you want to achieve that, you go for it. But when you get it, you must use it." That was in 2020, and Nancy Pelosi used her power then. She's still using it. Most recently to influence President Joe Biden's decision to end his presidential campaign. First as a volunteer and democratic fundraiser, then as a member of Congress, and finally as the most powerful woman in political history, Nancy Pelosi has spent the better part of four decades amassing power and using it to achieve her legislative goals. Now she's put pen to paper about HOW she did that. For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Before she was a meme, before she stared down then-President Trump in the White House, before she became arguably the most powerful woman in American political history, Nancy Pelosi was a San Francisco mother-of-five running for Congress for the first time. The point is, is for 25 years I've been working to turn ideas and issues into public policy in Sacramento and Washington, D.C. Pelosi had been working for 25 years for Democratic causes, but as a volunteer and successful fundraiser, she had never held elected office. And her rivals in that 1987 special election in California's 5th congressional district, they were skeptical, to say the least.

How can she relate to people like me, a single parent, working mother? Why can't she relate? Because the problems are different. The first voice you heard, that is then San Francisco Board of Supervisors member and congressional candidate, Carol Ruth Silver. The woman trying to break in, That's a 47-year-old Nancy Pelosi. And that moment stands in stark contrast to this one, January 2007, when the mother from San Francisco made history as the first woman to become Speaker of the House.

For these children, our children, and for all of America's children, the House will come to order. Consider this. Nancy Pelosi has spent the better part of four decades amassing power and using it to achieve her legislative goals. Now she's put pen to paper about how she did that. From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It's Consider This from NPR. Speaker Emerita of the House Nancy Pelosi once told Washington Post columnist Karen Tumulty, quote, Nobody ever gives away power. If you want to achieve that, you go for it. But when you get it, you must use it. Well, that was 2020. And Nancy Pelosi used her power then, she's still using it, most recently to influence President Joe Biden's decision to end his campaign for re-election. More on that in a few minutes.

Nancy Pelosi is also writing about power. In her new book, The Art of Power, My Story as America's First Woman Speaker of the House. She stopped by NPR studios recently to talk about the book and her career. We started with her rise to Democratic leadership. Nobody starts with power, including even you. You came to Congress in your late 40s, and then you decided pretty quickly that the way to do what you had come to do was you needed to get a position of leadership. I want you to take us to the moment, 2001, you have decided to throw your hat in the ring for Democratic whip, and all the men in the room looked at each other and said, who said she could run?

Would you briefly tell us what happened? Well, let me, if I just may. First of all, lovely to be here. Love NPR. This book is not a memoir. It is just about four particular things, whether it's the Iraq War, the TARP, the financial crisis, China, and, again, issues that relate to places where I was in the room where it happened. Well, the theme seems to be how you wielded power as a woman who, the first woman to wield the gavel that you held all those years. But to put it in perspective, I had never intended to run for office.

I was a volunteer in politics. I loved doing that. I loved promoting other candidates, the causes of the Democratic Party. And then people encouraged me to run. And I thought, well, I've never expressed an interest. I'm not particularly ambitious in that regard. However, they said, you love the issues, you should go. And I did. And then people said to me, you should run for leadership. I said, well, I'm here for the issues. I love what I'm doing.

But then as it got on with their urging, I just really got tired of losing. We lost in 94, 96, 98. 2000 came around, and I said, I think I know how to win these elections. I had been- I guess what I'm pushing on is the way you recount it in the book. This was not widely welcomed by all the men who had held power. And I'm curious what gave you the confidence to say, no, you get in line. We've been standing in line for 200 years. It's our turn. Well, it is interesting that in this, not that long ago, they were saying, who said she could run? And then they were saying, well, why don't the women just make a list of the things they want to do and give it to us and we'll get those things done. Poor babies. I mean, it was like... Oh, so they were helpful. If you just gave them the list, they would sort it for you. Well, you know, but I said to the people then, I don't want you voting for me because I'm a woman

and I don't want you voting against me because I'm a woman. But I think that I know how to win for a reason, for the children. That's the only reason I left home the first time. Yeah. Speaking of children, you have five. And I do want to throw you a question about your mom. Speaking of women and power, your mom, how did she shape your understanding of what a woman could do, how she could wield power in a room? Well, my mother, I think if she had been another generation or two, God knows what she would have done.

But she, as other women of her generation, were more confined. My father was the politician. Well, he was the elected official. He was a longtime mayor of Baltimore, member of Congress. She was but a mom, seven kids, and I was the only girl, the youngest and the only girl. She was quite remarkable. And I was born into a family that was deeply Catholic, that first and foremost, we separate church and state, but the way we were raised, we had a responsibility for goodness to other people. So that was the value system, but I had never

had any intention of running for public office. None. True that your parents wanted you to be not Speaker of the House, but a nun? My mother, not my father necessarily. He didn't talk about that. But my mother, she wanted me to be a nun. She thought that would be just perfect. Did you ever think about it? No. No. It was, you know, it was lovely.

And I love the nuns and I owe them a great deal. And they say sometimes it's never too late, but it probably is by now. But it is, that was just a manifestation of our faith and her protection. Before we move on from talking power and how to wield the power that you have, I do need to ask about recent events that are outside the scope of this book, including the moment last month when you went on MSNBC's Morning Joe and said this. It's up to the president to decide if he is going to run. We're all encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short. Nancy Pelosi, he had made that decision. He'd just come out and told us, I'm in, I'm running, case closed.

Your comments reopened the whole kettle of worms. Why'd you do it? Well, let me just say that I have the highest regard for Joe Biden. He is one of the great, most consequential presidents of our time and certainly in American history. And a personal friend. Well, I love him. I've loved him for over 40 years, he and his family. And his legacy is very important for our country. And his legacy is one we share, because having the majority for part of the time of his presidency. So it wasn't a question of his

deciding, it was a question of their deciding what kind of campaign would go forward. One of the reasons I ran for Congress this time was to make sure we won the House back, and to make sure that Donald Trump never set foot in the White House again. But let me circle you back to this moment that I'm pushing you on. Why go on Morning Joe, which he's known to watch, and reopen that door? Well, I went on Morning Joe that day because it was, that's a question they asked, but it wasn't why I was there. I was there because it was the NATO summit. But you knew they would ask. I didn't know if there'd be time. You never know if there's going to be enough time. We were there to talk about what Russia was doing in Ukraine. My concern was not about whether he would run or not, but whether they would have the campaign that was necessary. And we wanted more visibility of him. It was not a question at that time of whether he

would run or not. It was a question of whether they would have the campaign that was necessary to win. Because I think that the biggest danger to our country is that what's-his-name would be re-elected president of the United States. That was my mission. What's-his-name being Donald Trump. Let me ask this question in a slightly different way. You never called on Joe Biden to drop out. I know. I have talked to no one in this town in Washington who doesn't believe your fingerprints were on that decision, and that you were the only one with the clout to pull it off. Are those people wrong?

These wrong. I'll tell you what I did not do. I did not call one person. I read in the press that I was burning up the phone lines and call one person. People called me. Some of them I received their call. Some of them I didn't have even time to. I never said put Michael

Donilon on the phone. Never. Have you spoken with President Biden since his decision to pull out? No. Well, not since his public decision. That's a week and a half ago. No, I haven't. Speaker Emerita of the House Nancy Pelosi discussing her new book, The Art of Power. We also spoke to Speaker Pelosi about the Affordable Care Act, her Catholic faith, and whether Democrats share blame for the lack of consequences that Wall Street faced after the 2008 financial crisis. You can hear all that at NPR.org. This episode was produced by Erica Ryan. It was edited by Courtney Dorning.

Our executive producer is Sammy Yinnigan. It's Consider This. From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly.