Consider This from NPR - How some online networks target and radicalize kids

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

The FBI is investigating at least 250 people who may be tied to online networks that target children.These networks encourage kids to hurt themselves, other minors or even animals. In some countries, they have been tied to mass casualty and terrorism plots.NPR's domestic extremism correspondent Odette Yousef has spoken with a family that experienced this firsthand. For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Before her son entered ninth grade, Dana says he managed his time online pretty well. He plays music. He plays drums. He plays guitar. He sings. He draws. He writes. He reads. He had enough things to keep him busy otherwise. So it had never really been a source of conflict until fall of 20203. We're not using Dana's full name because her son is a minor. The fall of 20203 was a bumpy time. And before we go any further, we want to warn you that today's story contains graphic descriptions of self-harm. Dana's son was being bullied at school. The core friend group he'd had for a long time had broken apart. And his parents were separating. There was a lot of change. At the beginning of the school year, Dana noticed her son was retreating into his phone.

He had an iPhone, so I had Apple parental controls set up. Dana set up screen time locks for some websites. She limited his time online. He wasn't allowed on social media. But then she'd find out he had figured out some way around everything. His personality was also changing. Dana said he was isolating himself. He stopped doing things he used to enjoy.

And over a few months, she became aware that he was self-harming. At first, it was just small cuts on his arms. Sometimes he'd come to her afterward asking for help. He said he felt like he was losing control. We were given a safety plan to lock up items in the home that he could use to harm himself. But it seemed like somehow he kept finding other items to harm himself. Before all of this began, Dana's, son had already been seeing a therapist. He's neurodivergent and she says therapy helped equip him to

navigate a neurotypical world. Dana brought up the self-harm and the behavioral changes at his appointments. She says they were told it was normal teenage stuff, even that he should spend more time online because it's where he seemed to be finding community. But Dana was starting to worry that actually he was being radicalized online. He'd started dropping what she calls extreme political comments into conversations, including neo-fascist talking points. You know, the whole entire government just needs to fall into complete anarchy and be rebuilt from scratch. Consider this.

The experience of Dana and her son are part of a pattern of extremist networks encouraging kids to hurt themselves, other children, and even animals. And in some countries, those networks have been tied to mass casualty and terrorism plots. From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. It's consider this from NPR. The FBI is investigating more than 250 cases of people who may be tied to online networks targeting children. NPR extremism correspondent Odette Yusuf followed the story of Dana and her son and looked into how law enforcement is handling the threat.

Dana was looking for help. She contacted a group that guides people out of extremist movements. She was also trying to find a new therapist for her son. But before those resources came together, things came to a head. My younger daughter had found that my son was in possession of a large hunting knife. It was something he had specially ordered on. It was very long and had been customized with the inscription death. It had a gut hook. Like, it was a very intricate weapon. And Dana was being presented with this knife five minutes before she had to get

her son from school. Questions were running through her head. Does he have another weapon on him at school right now? Does he have a weapon at home? Is he going to hurt somebody or somebody else or himself? Just then, Dana got a call. It was the pediatric. office, finally getting back to her about a new therapist. She told them about the knife. They told her to pick him up, but to make sure a school resource officer and local police were on scene in case he was additionally armed. And they said she should take him immediately to the children's hospital. Dana said the ride there was traumatic. He was angry and crying. He said she was making a big deal of nothing. But at the hospital, Dana finally started to understand

how serious his situation had become. He had extensive self-harm all over his torso, like hovering his torso, most of his arms, satanic symbols that were deep enough to leave permanent scars. I later found out that some of these symbols may possibly have been call-out signs to 764. 764 is one of the predatory networks that targets vulnerable people online, including children. In the U.S., nearly a dozen 764-affiliated people have been arrested since 2021. It's been tied to attacks, arson, child sexual abuse material, child's exploitation, bomb threats, plots to murder, and at least two deaths.

Police told Dana that if someone from the network had been, been in direct contact with her son, that would represent a grave risk to himself and possibly even to his family. So I spent approximately two hours going through his phone and I still have nightmares about it. Dana found that there had been direct contact very recently with someone, but that person's identity remains unknown. What really disturbed her were images she saw from gore websites, sites that feature graphic, violent videos that desensitize viewers. There was also other upsetting content on the phone. My son had taken hundreds of pictures that were categorized as child self-harm sexual content.

So they started with, here's just a little scratch on my arm, here's a bigger scratch. Here's some all over my arm, and at the end it was cuts all over his torso, thighs, arms, and he was fully naked. Dana came to learn that her son was being influenced online by groups that the FBI now calls nihilistic, violent extremist networks. Predators in these networks are known to coerce children into sending them explicit photos or videos. They solicit images of kids harming themselves and others. In the U.S., they've been linked to some school shootings. And in other countries, kids are also falling victim to the influence of these groups. RCMP have arrested an Edmonton area teen on suspicion of terrorism.

In Canada, a 15-year-old was recently accused of plotting a terrorism offense in connection with these networks. In May, a Free Lady Gaga concert at Copacabana Beach in Brazil was nearly the site of a bomb attack. A plot, they say, had been orchestrated by a group promoting hate speech and the radicalization of teenagers. And teens in Sweden have been arrested for live streaming attacks on random elderly victims. It's much larger than Americans understand. William Braniff is former head of the Center for Prevention Programs and Partnerships. It's part of the Department of Homeland Security. CP3, as it's called, works with local communities to take a public health approach to preventing terrorism and targeted violence.

Branagh says by the time he left that post in March, nihilistic violent extremism had become the number one concern. We see the one or two school shootings in the news and we think, oh, that's a tragic incident. What we don't see is the iceberg below the water line. Work began during the Biden administration to better define and address this growing problem. Some of that has continued under the Trump administration. Since 2021, about a dozen people have been arrested in the U.S. for their predatory activities. The FBI wouldn't speak to NPR for this story, but in a statement, it says it's pursuing 250 investigations involving these networks. But counter-extremism researchers agree that law enforcement,

alone won't solve it. This has grown beyond that original core network. And it's a very scary proposition to think about because what we're really talking about here is this network has gained its own life. Matthew Criner heads the Institute for Countering Digital Extremism. He has testified as an expert in federal cases

involving these networks and help the Department of Justice define this new category of extremist violence. Criner says arresting people who establish or orchestrate these networks. networks won't stop them, because what they do is encourage their victims, children, to then become predators. Most of these behaviors and the harms that are being perpetrated are peer-to-peer.

So it's happening from youth to youth, and they're bringing in individuals faster than we can disrupt. Kriner, Braniff, and others say prevention needs to be the focus. That would look like educating teachers, parents, and health sector workers to spot warning signs that a child is involved with these networks. And it would shore up therapeutic resources to help kids trying to remove themselves from these networks and deal with the trauma of the online content they've already absorbed. But the Trump administration has significantly cut federal resources for local violence and terrorism prevention. Braniff says the office he used

to head is down from 45 people to six. One of them is its new, 22-year-old director, a recent college graduate with no experience in law enforcement or national security. And it appears that agency still hasn't solicited applications from local communities for grants for the current fiscal year, even though only two months remain. CP3 media representatives did not respond to questions from NPR. Cynthia Miller Idris of the Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab at American University says, This means that local and state governments will have to step up. She says there's no doubt that at some point,

they will all see instances of these network's pernicious reach. I have heard from one after-school practitioner, and they have four families who are dealing with this right now, just in their school district that they're working with. Miller Idris says without resources and coordination at a federal level, what communities do to counter these effects will be very uneven. She calls this category of violence a whole-of-society issue and one that will require rapid and creative mobilization of resources for communities to address.

It took months for Dana to extricate her son from these toxic online environments. Dana found a partial hospitalization program where he'd spend six to seven hours a day in therapy. His progress wasn't constant, there were setbacks, but a key part of his recovery. has been losing his smartphone. He's got a flip phone now, and Dana says he's happier. Dana's convinced he got help at just the right time. Through all this, he was still being bullied at school, and he was angry at the people doing that to him.

I worry that if he would have kept viewing this content, the police officer was very emphatic that we were probably dating, days away from a very horrible outcome, either, you know, him harming somebody else or himself. Now, a year later, Dana says she finally feels ready to be sharing their story publicly. She says she hopes it will help anyone with children in their lives to become more aware of the harms that kids may encounter online now. I feel like when I talk about it, I get one of two reactions. One is that could never happen to us because we have parental. controls and screen time, and her kid would never do something like that.

Or two, I had no idea that something like this could happen. Please tell me more I want to learn. That was NPR's Odette Yousaf. This episode was produced by Michael Levitt and Mark Rivers. It was edited by Andrew Sussman and Courtney Dorney. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. If you or someone you know may be considering suicide or is in crisis, call or text 988 to reach the suicide and crisis lifeline.

It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.