Consider This from NPR - If Trump gets rid of Department of Education, what would it mean for schools?

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

President-elect Trump has vowed to elimanate the Department of Education. The DOE oversees everything from college student loans to aid for public school special education. What would shutting it down mean for America's schools?Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

For years, going back to his first term in office, Donald Trump has promised this. One other thing I'll be doing very early in the administration is closing up the Department of Education in Washington, D.C. I want to close the Department of Education and move education back to the states where it belongs. And I'm going to close the Department of Education and move education back to the states. And we're going to do it fast. Eliminating the Department of Education is in line with the conservative blueprint for

Trump's second term, called Project 2025, a document from which Trump has actively distanced himself. Shutting down the department does not sit well with traditional supporters like Randy Weingarten, head of the American Federation of Teachers. It completely takes away and abolishes this notion of opportunity for all and and of knowledge for all. Believe it or not, the Education Department in its current form is only about four decades old. It was then President Jimmy Carter, along with Congress, who elevated the department to a cabinet-level agency. Today, the department oversees everything from college student loans to aid for low-income

public schools and special education. But shutting down the department has been a talking point for Republicans pretty much from the beginning. It was part of Ronald Reagan's plan to shrink the size of the federal government, something he talked about in his 1982 State of the Union address. The budget plan I submit to you on February 8th will realize major savings by dismantling the departments of energy and education and by eliminating ineffective subsidies for business. Consider this. Can President-elect Trump eliminate the Department of Education? And if he succeeds, what would that mean for America's public schools?

From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. Support for NPR comes from Amazon Music. Prime members have access to a catalog of news podcasts. Ad-free breaking news without the breaks. Available by downloading the Amazon Music app or visiting amazon.com slash ad-free. This message comes from Pushkin. In Revenge of the Tipping Point, bestselling author Malcolm Gladwell returns to the subject of social epidemics and tipping points and the dark side of contagious phenomena, available wherever books are sold and wherever you get your audiobooks. I'm Rachel Martin, host of NPR's Wild Card Podcast. I've spent my entire career learning what kinds of questions prompt the most honest answers. What's the biggest sacrifice you've ever made? What's a belief you had to let go of? Oh. What's a goal you're glad you gave up on?

Now I'm putting those soul-searching questions to guests like Jenny Slate, Bo and Yang, and Chris Pine. Follow Wildcard wherever you get your podcasts, only from NPR. It's Consider This from NPR. President-elect Donald Trump has promised to eliminate the U.S. Department of Education, which got us wondering, does the president actually have the power to do that? And if so, what would happen?

To walk us through some answers, we are joined by NPR's Cory Turner. Hi Cory. Hey Mary Louise. Start right there. Can President Trump shut down the Education Department if he wants to do it? Not on his own. No. The Ed Department, as we heard, was created by Congress, a vote of Congress, and it can

only be officially abolished by a vote of Congress. Yes, we know that Republicans have won control of both House and the Senate this time around. Even so, because of the filibuster, in the Senate it will be very hard for Republicans to get any legislation passed without Democrats. Here's Max Eden of the conservative leaning American Enterprise Institute. It's really hard to see how you can do that without 60 votes in the Senate, and it's next to impossible to see how you get 60 votes on that anytime soon. And I put the same question to Rachel Pereira

at the nonpartisan Brookings Institution. She agreed Republicans are gonna need help to close the department. They would need some Democratic senators, and that seems incredibly unlikely, unless they get rid of the filibuster. I mean, that's a big question in my mind, but right now, current Senate rules, no.

It's also worth pointing out, Mary Louise, that even if the department is somehow closed, many of the things that it does, like send money, as we heard, through Title I to low-income schools, well, those would not automatically be stopped even if the department was closed. Oh, that's interesting.

Stay there for a second. Why? Are those funds just on some kind of autopilot or how does it work? Well, it's because they were each also created like the department by an act of Congress. And so the only way to change them or stop them is again through an act of Congress. In fact, the Title I money that I mentioned, that program was created by Congress years before the education department as it currently stands,

years before it even existed. And the same was true with money that goes to support kids with disabilities. And I should also say though here, in all the conversations I've had though with folks about this idea, no one thinks that there's much interest these days in doing anything with those bedrock funding programs. Again, here's Max Eden. I could not imagine all of those funding streams, all those programs being cut.

That to me is just beyond the pale of political imagination. And I think part of the reason that's so hard to imagine, Rachel Pereira told me, is that programs like Title One enjoy strong bipartisan support. Some of the schools who rely the most on Title One are schools in poor rural white areas and Congressional Republicans have shown time and time again that they are not interested in hurting their constituents in that way by undoing those funding sources. Now, I think what is much more likely going forward is to see the Trump administration really using regulations, which obviously don't require Congress, to make the department reflect its political values.

OK, so now we get to the heart of it. What could incoming President Trump do, even if Congress is not on board with his plan to shut down that department altogether? Yeah. So let me give you one example. So Title IX is the federal law, again, passed by Congress, that's meant to prevent sex-based discrimination in schools that receive federal funding.

Well, the Biden administration used the regulatory process to interpret that law, to expand protections, to include sexual orientation and gender identity. But this interpretation of federal law really infuriated many conservatives, and Trump has said he will walk it back on day one. And that is something he can do. In fact, Title IX has been the subject of a kind of political ping pong match for years.

The Obama administration expanded protections using its own interpretation of the law, which then the first Trump administration rolled back, wrote their own version, their own interpretation of Title IX. Then came the Biden administration's interpretation. And now I think it's absolutely reasonable to expect the Trump administration to do the same. And we're just going to keep riding this education department regulatory roller coaster. Roller coaster does indeed sound like the apt term. NPR's Corey Turner, thanks for your reporting. You're welcome. This episode was produced by Mark Rivers. It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Courtney Dornig, and Nicole Cohen. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

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