Consider This from NPR - Inside Story: Life in Prison, As Told by Formerly Incarcerated People

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

For people who have not experienced it, life in prison can seem unimaginable. So reporters who have themselves been incarcerated can offer an important perspective when covering the prison system. NPR's Ailsa Chang speaks with Lawrence Bartley, host of the new series Inside Story, which documents life in the US prison system. The series was created by formerly incarcerated people, and aims to reach audiences both inside and outside the system. In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

When we think of prison, we often think of a place with a lot of restrictions and rules, like lots of rules, right? But the way Carrie Blakinger sees it, prison is actually a place where there are no rules. You know, no one's going to stop a it from happening. And that's what I mean by like there are no rules because in the moment they is very much informed by her own experience. She spent two years behind bars. Last year, I spoke to Blakinger about her memoir, Corrections in Ink. And she described in detail just how agonizing her experience in prison was, especially in solitary confinement. I just, as soon as the door shut behind me, I just sort of burst out into tears because I immediately realized how maddening and claustrophobic this was.

And while telling her own story involves digging up some of the most traumatic chapters of her life, Blakinger says she finds meaning in her work because it's about more than just herself. To me, it's just been so deeply meaningful to be able to tell stories about people who are in the places that I've been and to help amplify those voices and, you know, make their experience of incarceration maybe some bit less awful or more productive than mine was. Consider this. Reporters who have been incarcerated, like Carrie Blakinger, can offer a unique perspective when covering the prison system. Coming up, we'll hear from another journalist, also formerly incarcerated, whose new series tells stories about life in prison for an audience of people who are still living that life. From NPR, I'm Elsa Chang. It's Wednesday, February 22nd. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies.

Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time, mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today, or visit WISE.com. T's and C's apply. It's Consider This from NPR. When Lawrence Bartley was released from prison five years ago, he linked up with the Marshall Project and started reporting on the criminal justice system. Now, he's hosting a new show that's airing weekly inside prisons and jails in 48 states. This is Inside Story, the only show about the system by people who lived it. I'm Lawrence Bartley. When I spoke with Bartley, he explained to me that including the perspectives of formerly incarcerated people just makes for richer coverage of the prison system, both for the public who can see the show online and for the people on the inside.

There are many incarcerated people that read our journalism and news inside or see it in Inside Story and kind of pump their fists in the air. Like, finally, someone is telling the truth. Finally, we're seeing exactly what's happening. And this is my story. Yeah. Well, let me talk about you for a little bit. You served about 27 years in prison overall for multiple convictions, including murder. You were only 17 when you were sent to prison. Yes, that's correct. Okay. Let me ask you,

how do you think entering prison when you were so young, how do you think that shaped the way you see the criminal justice system today? When you're a 17-year-old going in, you're just conditioned to think that adults are there to protect you. But I found that adults weren't there to protect me most of the time. Plopped into a situation where I had to learn how to shave. I had to learn how to be a man and navigate the system in a way that was very traumatic to people like me who was young as I was. But once I was able to get a hang of it in a way that I can survive, then I figure out different defense mechanisms and how to cope with my situation. And that was education.

Well, thank God that experience in many ways strengthened you, especially as a journalist. Your first episode delves into how children are treated inside prisons. And it was something the lawyer and activist Bryan Stevenson said really stuck with me. He was talking about how if a society is going to incarcerate children, it should believe in their ability to change. change is irresponsible. It's punitive without purpose. And a system that punishes people without purpose is a system that loses its legitimacy. You know, Lawrence, I was curious because listening to an interview like this one with Bryan Stevenson and other interviews throughout this series, was it difficult to get correctional facilities on board to air these shows? Because in many moments, these shows encourage us to think critically about the way society treats people who are incarcerated. Yes.

There's so many different prisons and jails. And the way the rules are set up, they have the discretion to say what they can let in and what they won't. You know what I mean? But the people who run the facilities are meant to follow those and a lot of times there's some of them who don't really agree with those rules so it is my hope that creating a series like this that we have some of those people who are in a power to say yes or no to look at it and say let me look at the way

i'm running my facilities to see how it stacks up against what's in this episode. If it's consistent with what's in this episode, I'm hoping that the inherent good in people will say, well, I need to make some change and I'm not going to block the episode from coming and I'm going to let people see it. any resistance to airing these shows inside certain prisons or have any correctional facilities tried to exert editorial control over the content of any of these episodes? They cannot. They cannot exert editorial control. Did they try? Have any?

No, they haven't tried. But there have been some states that have said that, oh, no, I don't think we want this inside of our facility because it's kind of critical. You sit down in the third episode with two Baltimore City police detectives known as Dre and Big H, Andreas Severino and Ralph Horton. They both host a podcast called The Silverback Chronicles. And you had some pretty pointed questions for them about interrogations. And I just want to play a little of one exchange where you reflect on your own experience.

When I was arrested, I said I want a right to remain silent. They said, yeah, all right. You're going to get your ass in there and I'm going to write to whoop your mother. Yeah, that policing culture has f***ed it up for everybody. For everybody else. Because there's always an old school police culture. There's always an old school business that people just were under

and they followed. And that was just how things were done. And that's horrible. It really is horrible. We're sorry that you went through that. That's ridiculous. It's tough to hear. Appreciate that. And then Detective Horton goes on to make the point that police reform has been huge. That's his word.

That things are changing in police departments in terms of how they treat the people they interact with. Let me ask you, Lawrence, as you have worked with the Marshall Project and reported out stories for Inside Story, have you come away with that same impression? Well, no. When you see what happened with Tyree Nichols in Memphis, that highlights that things haven't changed. We see over and over again people being killed by police officers and not much happened to them. Sure, what happened to Derek Chauvin, him being sentenced, that was a step. But there are other people who felt like they don't get justice. So I won't say that the system is not making Santa Fe now, and Lunel, the comedian. I talked about the script searches and the degradation of that.

And then from the mindset of the person doing it, like, do you know if they're just trying to be professional or they're enjoying it too much? Or, you know, you don't know what's going on in their head. And then the mystery meat with what is this, pimento and olive loaf? You know, yeah, that was a lot of comedy that I drew from being in jail. Well, Lunell's been on the HBO show Hacks. She's reportedly got a Netflix special coming up. It made me feel that your series, it isn't just about informing people

in prison about the criminal justice system. It's also about giving them hope. Absolutely. You know, people who are incarcerated, including myself, I was told over and over again how horrible I was. But no one tells us that you can be a Lunell. No one says you could be a Chef Louise. You know, we've heard tons of feedback from people who are formerly incarcerated or even people who normally thought of people who commit crimes as folks that should never return back to society, afterthought, just horrible people, and are now kind of softening and looking at people as people. Sure, they committed some bad acts that got them there, but let's give them an opportunity to be people because 95%

of people who are incarcerated are coming out someday. And this series opens their eyes to what's possible for them, allows them to dream, and allows them to prepare right now from where they are to becoming someone everyone else thought that they couldn't be. Like becoming another Lawrence Bartley. Lawrence Bartley is co-creator of the new series Inside Story in partnership with Vice News and the Marshall Project. Thank you very much for sharing this time with us, Lawrence. Thank you, Elsa. Thank you so, so much. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang.