Consider This from NPR - Kamala Harris is used to firsts. But can she be the first female president?

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

If Kamala Harris officially becomes the Democratic presidential nominee next month, she'll be the first woman of color to lead a major party's ticket.Of course, that would not be her first, first. Harris's entire career is a list of jobs that nobody who looks quite like her had held before, including California's attorney general, Senator, and Vice President of the United States. Harris often stresses that while she may be a first, others paved the way. Kamala Harris has had a career full of firsts – could she also be the first woman to become President of the United States?Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Biden is out and Harris is in. You think you just fell out of a coconut tree? Enough delegates have lined up behind the vice president to officially make Kamala Harris the Democratic presidential nominee next month. And unofficially, pop stars and memes are juicing up the engine too. Like this remix of Charlie XCX with a catchphrase from the presumptive nominee. You exist in the context. 666 with the princess tree. I'm everywhere, I'm totally here. Of all in which you live and what came before you.

The family coconut tree that Harris comes from has a lot of branches. And yes, I know that coconut trees don't actually have branches. It's a metaphor. Her mother was Indian, her father Jamaican, and her career is a series of firsts. First woman, first person of color, to hold jobs like San Francisco DA, state attorney general,

senator from California, and now vice president. My mother used to have a saying and she would say to me, Kamala, you may be the first to do many things, but make sure you're not the last. That's Harris speaking with Jake Tapper at a CNN town hall during her first run for president in 2019. A year later, she won, but not at the top of the ticket. We did it. We did it, Joe. You're going to be the next president of the United States. Harris often stresses that while she may be a first, others pave the way. In her victory speech four years ago after being elected vice president, she paid tribute to women of color who fought for gender equality. Tonight I reflect on their struggle, their determination, and the strength of their

vision to see what can be unburdened by what has been. And I stand on their shoulders. Consider this. Kamala Harris has had a career full of firsts. Could she also be the first woman to become president of the United States? From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. It's Consider This from NPR. If Kamala Harris officially becomes the Democratic presidential nominee next month,

she will be the first woman of color to lead a major party's ticket. Of course, that would not be her first first. Harris's entire career is a list of jobs that nobody who looks quite like her has held before, including California's Attorney General, Senator, and Vice President of the United States. NPR White House correspondent Asma Khalid has covered Harris for years, and she's here to talk about how this long history of breaking barriers informs Harris and the campaign she might run. Hi, Asma. Hi, Ari. You've interviewed the Vice President a number of times. You've covered her for years. Do you have a sense of how she thinks

about herself in relation to all those firsts? Well, I will say, Ari, that former staffers and supporters tell me this all the time. They will point out that she has been the first person like her in pretty much every job that she has held. She personally doesn't talk a whole lot about it, but she's aware of it. You know, she has said that her mother told her, Kamala, you may be the first to do many things, but make sure you're not the last. And she said that's how she thinks about this idea of breaking barriers. It's a message that we heard from her when Democrats won the presidential election in November of 2020. Every little girl watching tonight sees that this is a country of possibilities. And to the children of our country, regardless of your gender, our country has sent

you a clear message. This election, though, Ari, is different. I mean, there has never been a woman as president. And, you know, there's actually never even been a black woman who's been a governor of any state in the country. You know, one former Harris staffer told me that Harris doesn't fit neatly into identity boxes. And sometimes it's hard for the broad public to understand her because they haven't seen anybody like her in that position before. You know, politically, being a first can be an advantage or a disadvantage. So how do you expect her campaign may use the idea of breaking barriers? Are they likely to focus on it or downplay it? Well, I would say I don't think she herself nor her campaign needs to explicitly talk about it because there's already been a swell of grassroots support. You know, there were thousands of Black

women on a Zoom call the other night. I've spoken to organizers in key states like Georgia, African-American women who are quickly rallying behind her. In the Indian American community, there's this photo of Harris being shared online that reads, in Sanskrit, Kamala means lotus. In America, Kamala means POTUS. You know, the country has changed, I will say quite a bit since the years when Barack Obama, who was, of course, the nation's first black president, ran for office. And so I do think that the way they talk about this will be different than what we've seen in the past. I covered the Obama presidency. And I know that Harris has resisted comparisons between

the two, but there are biographical similarities. They were both mixed-race children of divorced parents. And he made his biography such a big part of his candidacy as a way of connecting with voters. Do you expect her to follow his playbook? I don't, Ari. And you just mentioned the word biography. He wrote that very soul-searching memoir about race and identity. I have Kamala Harris's book in front of me. I pulled it out just to refresh my memory a bit. It was a very different book. You don't see that same sort of search for racial ethnic identity. She grew up under different circumstances on the more culturally liberal, racially blended West Coast. And she's also said that she was not raised to talk about herself, that she was brought up to focus on the work, and she insists that the work, her work,

the policies are her motivation. And so when you hear her speak, both I think on the campaign drill, but also here as the vice president, you hear her talk a lot about policy and very little about her own personal background. In fact, I think when reporters try to bring it up, she bristles at the idea. There's this moment that has been stuck in my mind from when she launched her failed 2020 presidential primary campaign, when she was asked about how she identifies. You're an African-American woman, but you're also Indian-American. And I'm just curious. Indeed. What's the best? How do you describe yourself? Did you read my book? How do I describe myself? I describe myself as a proud American.

Her mother was Indian and her father was Jamaican, but it's her mother who was the primary role model and parent in her life. Her mother worked as a breast cancer researcher. And, you know, Harris has said over the years that Berkeley, Oakland, growing up in that environment really had an impact on both her parents and her views on social justice and the civil rights era. You know, she said that her mom taught her and her sister that if you see a problem, you don't complain about it, you do something about it. So, you know, broadly, Ari, I will say that she does not engage in questions around her personal biography. In depth, she likes to focus a lot on the policy. Well, if there's one word that I have heard her allies use more than any other in the last couple of days, it is prosecutor.

She was district attorney in San Francisco, then attorney general for the state of California. As senator, she served on the Judiciary Committee where she had these moments that went viral where she was questioning witnesses like Supreme Court nominee, who's now Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. That's not my question. My question is, have you had a conversation with anyone at that firm about that investigation? It's a really specific question. I would like to know the person you're thinking of because what if there's... I think you're thinking of someone and you don't want to tell us. That is where her supporters believe she really shines and is at her best. You know, she was only elected to the Senate in the 2016 election cycle, but her prominence grew really quickly because of how she handled some of these Senate confirmation

hearings. And then she was named the ticket shortly after this. I mean, this is something she has heavily leaned into throughout her career. And I will say, you know, throughout her 2020 failed presidential primary, she couldn't always make the affirmative case for herself. But it's when she goes on the attack. And I think this is what we're beginning to see also in her run now against Donald Trump. It's when she goes on the attack that her supporters see her at her best. It's where she really energizes the base of the Democratic Party. During her first run for president, Democratic primary voters were uncomfortable with what they saw as her role as a cop.

Does it play differently now in a general election? It does seem to play quite differently, again, because I think she is going on the attack against Trump. She is going after the Republican nominee and trying to contrast her record as a prosecutor with Trump as a felon. It is a message that she had increasingly been bringing out on the campaign trail. And just yesterday at her campaign headquarters in Delaware, she made this pitch again. I took on perpetrators of all kinds. And she's really trying to contrast her record as a prosecutor with Trump as a felon. Predators who abused women. Fraudsters who ripped off consumers, cheaters who broke the rules for their own gain. So hear me when I say, I know Donald Trump's type.

She's trying to make this election a contrast, a contrast both in terms of her being a prosecutor, him being a convicted felon, but also a contrast in terms of two very different visions for the future. She talks about a vision that is focused on the future and a vision that is focused on the past. And you know, who she is and what she represents, I think, allows her to more directly speak to those contrasting visions. In the times that you have spoken to her, do you get a sense of what she sees as her biggest strength? You know, one thing I don't think you see from her campaign stump speeches is how much she really appreciates going into the nuanced details on policies that she cares about. I interviewed

her just a few days after the Supreme Court overturned that landmark decision, Roe versus Wade on abortion. And, you know, she had what her supporters would say foresight into what this would mean, a foresight that many men in this job perhaps might not have had. I think that the right to privacy that extends to allowing an individual to make decisions about whether they will start a family, including the access to in vitro fertilization, is arguably now at risk. I believe the right to privacy that was an extension of our finally correct decision in Obergefell to allow same-sex marriage. I do believe that is

now at risk. And Ari, she went on to become the administration's main messenger on reproductive rights. And we all know that became a major campaign issue for Democrats in the midterms. It's also something that Democrats believe is one of their most persuasive issues this fall. Well, in her time as vice president, what kinds of changes have you seen that might tell us about the kind of presidential candidate she's going to be? She has become more comfortable on the job as she's gained experience. But I also think a lot of people look to her 2020 presidential campaign and try to glean lessons from that. I think the past is only useful to a point. This is a different campaign that she is running. It is a different moment in American

history. NPR White House correspondent Asma Khalid, thank you. Good to talk to you. This episode was produced by Megan Lim and Elena Burnett with audio engineering by Tiffany Vera Castro and Ted Meebane. It was edited by Courtney Dourning and Roberta Rampton. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. And one more thing before we go, you can now enjoy the Consider This newsletter. We still help you break down a major story of the day, but you'll also get to know our producers and hosts and some moments of joy from the All Things Considered team. You can sign up at npr.org slash consider this newsletter. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.