Consider This from NPR - NPR's View From The Ground In Iran

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

NPR's Mary Louise Kelly is on the ground in Iran, where she spoke directly with Iranians about their grievances against the regime.She later put some of those grievances to Iran's Foreign Minister, Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, during a rare in-person interview in Tehran.You can hear more of NPR's interview with Iran's Foreign Minister, on whether Iranians can freely voice their ideas, here.In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's been almost five months since the death of Masa Amani sparked a wave of protests across Iran. Amani, known to her family as Jina, was a 22-year-old Kurdish-Iranian woman who died in police custody in September after she was detained for allegedly wearing a headscarf improperly. What started as anger at her death quickly grew into a movement led by young Iranians who took to the streets to air their wide-ranging grievances against Iran's rulers. The regime responded with a violent crackdown on protesters. According to human rights groups, the government killed hundreds of demonstrators and jailed thousands. And in December, Iranian authorities began executing people involved in the protests on charges ranging from assault to murder. This week, Iran's supreme leader,

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, announced that he will pardon or commute the sentences of tens of thousands of prisoners ahead of Saturday. That's the 44th anniversary of the country's 1979 revolution. Human rights advocates say this amnesty is part of a government effort to change the narrative about the protests. I think this is a bit of a play to say that, you know, there's nothing going on here. We're releasing prisoners now. Gisu Nia is a human rights lawyer at the Atlantic Council. She points out that the release announced this week doesn't cover most of the charges that many of the jailed protesters actually face,

such as espionage, links to foreign intelligence services, or attacks on government or public sites. Everyone who is facing capital punishment, which is about 100, are still in prison. 700 other people have been sentenced to draconian long sentences. And the majority of the folks who are given amnesty here are not the people that were

participating in those protests. Despite the ongoing repression, many Iranians continue to air their grievances at their rulers. People like Javad, who, like many other Iranians, MPR has talked to, ask that his family name not be used because he's fearful of retribution for speaking out against the government and talking to foreign media. Javad is in his 50s and has been protesting ever since Masa Amani's death. We saw that the government didn't budge at all, didn't acknowledge any of the demands. So people have gotten angrier and angrier. Although recently there are fewer street protests due to the crackdowns,

in the coming year there are certainly going to be more. You can see signs of this rage in the society. Another protester NPR heard from, a 19-year-old student, didn't want us to identify her because she too feared punishment. But despite the danger, she told us that she is speaking out a 19-year-old student, didn't want us to identify her because she too feared punishment. But despite the danger, she told us that she is speaking out because she wants a better future. I want happiness. I want a good life. I want a good home, good car, good, I don't know, husband maybe. I cannot have a better future in this country, in this situation. So I think it's for freedom. It's for have a better

future. It's for have a better days. We don't have them. So I just want happiness. And I don't have it. No one have it. Consider this. A brutal crackdown has not stopped some Iranians from voicing their anger and frustration at their own government. An NPR team heard grievances directly from the people on the streets of Tehran, and they put some of those grievances to a top Iranian official. His response, coming up. From NPR, I'm Elsa Chang. It's Friday, February 9th. It's Consider This from NPR. The Iranian government doesn't let a lot of foreign journalists into the country, so it's been difficult to report on exactly what's been going on in Iran since a

wave of anti-government protests began in September. But this week, a team from NPR, led by my colleague Mary Louise Kelly, was allowed in. They were assigned an interpreter and were not permitted to go everywhere they asked to report from, but they were free to ask what they wanted during their stay. On the streets of Tehran, they were able to speak to several people who described an economy in which basic needs like food and medicine are punishingly expensive, an economy where unemployment is rampant and a restricted internet has left them feeling cut off from the world. Some blame U.S.-led sanctions,

but many accuse their own government of mismanagement and brutality. This young man, who's 18 years old and didn't want to give his name, blamed the regime for his day-to-day troubles. It's so hard to live in Iran. Really. Believe me. It's so hard. Do you feel like you have a future? No. I hope I will die. It's so better from living in here. You can't do anything. He hopes he will die, he said. What does the Iranian government make of the anger and desperation many of its citizens are feeling? Our team in Tehran got a rare opportunity to ask a top official for his response.

Mary Louise takes it from here. We've just walked up to the gates of the foreign ministry, this big yellow compound, yellow brick compound in central Tehran. We have had so many questions on the ground here in Iran about the anti-government protests that have rocked this country. Hundreds of people have been killed. We also have questions about Iran's relations with the rest of the world. Iran's top diplomat, that is the foreign minister,

Hossein Amir Abdel-Lahian, has agreed to take our questions. Once inside, we climbed from one waiting area to the next and finally settled inside a cavernous meeting room, a giant map of Iran and the region above us. What you are about to hear is Amir Abdullahiyan speaking through an interpreter. We have edited for concision and clarity. We have not internally edited his answers. I'll start with the news.

Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei has announced he is pardoning tens of thousands of people arrested in the anti-government protests. Why and why now? I'm in the name of God, the most compassionate, the most merciful. At this very outset, allow me to point out that when you say tens of thousands have been detained, well, this is not exactly accurate. And this I say categorically. First of all, no student whatsoever was detained at the universities or premises of the universities during the riots. In fact, those who were detained were people who played a role in the riots on the streets. That being said, hundreds were carried away, and on that basis they acted in riots.

On the occasion of the victory of the Islamic Revolution, these people, hundreds of people who have been detained, were pardoned. The supreme leader of the Islamic Revolution pays special attention to the issue of clemency and mercy. And therefore, the decree is to release all these detainees, save for those who have committed murder or other serious crimes. The number that I cited, tens of thousands of people being pardoned, is the one that was cited by Iranian state media. And the number of thousands of protesters being detained is not mine. That is coming from human rights groups and from the United Nations,

which is estimating that thousands of people here have been detained since September. Hundreds of people have been killed and four people executed. I guess we see some sort of overstatement in these figures, even if it has been said by human rights groups. The number of those killed during the riots have also been played out. You see something important played out during the riots. Despite high tension during the riots, the police were not allowed to carry firearms.

However, American and Israeli armaments came through from some of our neighboring countries with little stability. Now, what they did was to wreak havoc amongst the mobs and masses and, in fact, resorted to the weapon armament in question. I want to follow up on what you're saying about weapons and the world that the U.S. you are alleging played. But it strikes me that we are citing different numbers of what happened,

of how many were killed. And it strikes me that part of the challenge may be that journalists have not been able to freely cover these protests. The Committee to Protect Journalists says 93 journalists have been detained in Iran. That is as of January. Another journalist, Elnaz Mohammadi, was arrested on Sunday. Why are journalists here in Iran, that is as of January, another journalist, Elnaz Mohammadi, was arrested on Sunday. Why are journalists here in Iran being prevented from doing their jobs? We cannot confirm the detention of journalists in Iran. It's very easy to relabel the person who has been detained. You could at any moment call that person in question a defendant of human rights, a journalist, among others.

93 and counting? It's a lot. No journalist was detained during riots. You see, just two weeks ago, something happened in Iran. A scammer was to flee Iran. What he did in order to help his escape was to post videos on social media claiming that he was a protester, that he was subjected to torture. But in fact, he was a scammer and a fraudulent person.

And at the end of the day, it turned out that he was frightened. He was arrested by the police. You see, the West has carefully and meticulously targeted the riots. Allow me to ask this question to you. You see,

there was a lot of maneuver on Mahsa Amini by Western media. But when it comes to Shirin Abu Aghali, did they really cover her? Forgive me, forgive me. If I may, I will ask the question. Killed by the Israeli police. I will ask the questions. And I will just, to end the questioning about journalists,

I will say journalists who have been detained and now released on bond are confirming that they are journalists and they were detained in these protests. But let me you mentioned the role that you believe the U.S. has played. In our time in Iran, we have interviewed many people now and asked them why they are angry. They cite repression. They cite inequality. they cite economic mismanagement. We asked one young man, who do you blame for your problems? He said the regime. Your government, not the United States. To the young man who blames the regime for his problems, you say what? First of all, it's not a regime. In Iran, we have a sovereign, legitimate, and legal government.

And therefore, I would like to urge that you also use the correct words. I was quoting someone directly who was speaking to me. But the people in Iran don't speak like that. Anyway, we admit that there are problems in Iran, just like elsewhere in the world. Back in September, when I was in New York, I happened to have the opportunity to roam about a little bit in New York and see the underground stations past midnight. I, in fact, talked to some of the citizens. And the responses I got from American nationals were worse than the response that you got from that Iranian man. And therefore, it pretty much depends on which population sample you choose for your institution. This constitutes an important part of democracy in Iran.

People can freely voice their ideas. That was NPR's Mary Louise Kelly speaking with Iran's foreign minister, Hossein Amir Abdullahi. You can hear more of their conversation on whether people in Iran can freely voice their ideas. There's a link to that in our show notes. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang.