Consider This from NPR - Over tea, a deal with Damascus and a possible turning point for Middle East diplomacy

Episode Date: May 18, 2025

On the first major foreign trip of his second term, President Trump met with leaders in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE. His arrival was greeted with fanfare across the region — there were motorcades featuring Teslas, long processions of Arabian horses and camels, and traditional dance and musical performances. According to the White House, Saudi Arabia agreed to invest $600 billion in the United States. Qatar placed a huge order for Boeing Passenger jets. But the biggest announcement of Trump's trip was a bit of surprise deal-making: after more than 20 years, Trump said, the U.S. will lift sanctions on Syria. President Trump and interim Syrian President al-Sharaa met for tea and also discussed the possibility that Syria could recognize Israel as a sovereign state. NPR's Scott Detrow and Hadeel Al-Shalchi examine how this news was received in Israel, whether this moment be a critical turning point for Middle East peace and ask, can Trump actually deliver on these promises? For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Over the past half century, U.S. presidents have made their first international visits to one of three countries, Canada, Mexico, or the United Kingdom. ...traveled to London with President Carter this past weekend and met with his counterpart in the British government. President George W. Bush met with Mexico's President Vicente Fox at the Mexican president's ranch last week. We are welcoming a new day in the relationship between America and Mexico. The visit to Ottawa was Mr. Obama's first foreign trip as president.

As neighbors, we are so closely linked that sometimes we may have a tendency to take our relationship for granted. Only one president in the past 50 years has broken with that tradition. President Trump is in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. This is the first stop on his first trip overseas as president. In 2017, President Trump made Saudi Arabia his first international trip, and he followed suit this year on his first major diplomatic swing of his second term. This past week, Trump met with leaders in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE. His arrival was greeted with fanfare across the region. There were motorcades featuring Teslas, long processions of Arabian horses and camels,

traditional dances, and musical performances. ["Tesla March"] During Trump's first visit as president in 2017, his focus was mostly on religious tension in the region between Israel and its Muslim-majority neighbors. But this time, it was all business. According to the White House, Saudi Arabia agreed to invest $600 billion in the United

States. Qatar placed a huge order for Boeing passenger jets. And the White House says the UAE agreed to a $200 billion deal with the U.S., though the figures and the finer details of all of these deals are still murky. But the biggest announcement of Trump's trip was a bit of surprise deal-making. I will be ordering the cessation of sanctions against Syria in order to give them a chance at great things. After more than 20 years, Trump said the U.S. will lift sanctions on Syria following the fall of the Assad regime late last year. The announcement earned him a standing ovation and Syrians celebrated in the streets of Damascus.

Though, it's Congress that would have final say on whether or not those sanctions are actually lifted. Trump also met with interim Syrian President Ahmed al-Shara. According to Trump, both parties signaled their willingness not only for peace between Israel and Syria, but for normalization between the two neighbors who have warred on and off for decades. Consider this. President Trump's trip to the Middle East was full of glitz, glam, high-stakes business

deals and surprising diplomatic moves. Could this moment be a critical turning point for Middle East peace and can Trump actually deliver on all of these promises? From NPR, I'm Scott Detra. I'm Tanya Mosley, co-host of Fresh Air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long-form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, TV, music, and journalism. Here our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard

before. Listen to the Fresh Air podcast from NPR and WHYY. When Malcolm Gladwell presented NPR's Throughline podcast with a Peabody Award, he praised it for its historical and moral clarity. On Throughline, we take you back in time to the origins of what's in the news like presidential power, aging, and evangelicalism. Time travel with us every week on the Thru Line podcast from NPR. It's Consider This from NPR.

Last week, for the first time in 25 years, the leaders of the United States and Syria met. Over tea, interim Syrian President Shara and President Trump talked about his announcement that America would soon lift sanctions. They also discussed the possibility that Syria could recognize Israel as a sovereign state. But how did this all go down in Israel, the other side of the peace equation? NPR's Hadil Al-Shalchi is in Tel Aviv and joins us now to explain. Thanks for joining us.

Of course. This was a surprise meeting. It was on the sidelines of Trump's trip. What all happened? So Scott, can we actually just take a minute first? President Ahmed Al-Shara is a man who once had a $10 million bounty on his head. The US used to say that this guy was a terrorist. Now the president of the United States is shaking

his hand. So that this meeting even happened is just remarkable. When they met, the White House said that Trump urged Sharj to do three main things. Get rid of all, quote, foreign terrorists from Syria, help the US stamp out any resurgence of ISIS, and to diplomatically recognize Israel. And after that, Trump announced that he vowed to lift the sanctions. I mean, like we said before, that would ultimately come down to Congress, but still, it's a remarkable statement

from an American president. If they were lifted, what exactly would that mean for Syria? I mean, Syria could just start to rebuild again. Those sanctions were seriously crippling and lasted more than two decades. And when I drove into Damascus a couple of days after Assad fell in December, I could really see the effects of the sanctions. The buildings are falling apart. So many cars are ancient because parts are unavailable. We'd pay for coffee with these huge wads of cash

because the currency meant nothing. So getting sanctions lifted was a huge win for Shadda and one thing off his to-do list, he also has to prove to the world that his fighting days are over and that he can make Syria a stable part of the region and that means also making peace with its neighbor Israel. And Israel is a country that is deeply invested in this as well. How is the response in Israel to these statements from Trump? Well, Israel was kind of stunned when they heard that Trump vowed to lift the sanctions. Israeli media was reporting

that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was urging Trump not to. You see, Israel's line all along has been that shut on his people are terrorists and that Israel must defend itself from them. Immediately after the fall of Assad in December, Israeli forces seized a buffer zone between the two countries that was set up in 1974. And then it also was bombing hundreds of military targets inside Syria.

Lately, Israel's also been expanding past that buffer zone further into Syria and continuing its bombing campaign in and around Damascus. But you know, with all of that, Syria is still saying it wants peace with Israel. Shara has said it publicly many times. And you know, just this past Wednesday, Syrian official spokesperson Ali Rifa'i spoke to Khan News, Israel's public media network. Now, first of all, just the fact that a Syrian government official spoke to Israeli media is incredible. You know, it would have been unthinkable just six months ago. But Rifa'i said that Israel should retreat from Syrian territory and the buffer zone, but that it's ready for peace.

Well, when we talk about things that President Trump is promising, it's important to put in the context that over the past decade, there have been so many big promises that would be groundbreaking, that just never materialized. But still, what he's talking about in this meeting is a really big deal. He's talking about full normalization here. I mean, yeah, exactly. I mean, Trump said he told Shadr in the meeting, I hope you'll join the Abraham Accords when Syria is ready. And according to Trump, Shadr replied, yes. Now it's one thing, like you said, to make peace, but to go full

blown normalization with Israel and sign these Accords, that would make some serious history. Can you step back and remind us of what the Abraham Accords are? Sure. So the Abraham Accords are these bilateral agreements normalizing relations between Arab countries and Israel, and they're all mediated by the United States. So far, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco have all signed the agreements, and Saudi Arabia is close to being the fifth. Under the agreement, they all recognize Israel as a sovereign nation, there are diplomatic ties, flights between the countries,

and of course these major business deals. How likely do you think this is to happen? What needs to happen between now and these big steps, given the long history between Syria and Israel? Yeah, I mean, all of this is really just talk right now. It's remarkable talk, but it's talk. And if it was going to happen, Syria would have conditions first. You know, a big one is for Israel to retreat from Syrian land. They'll also want to discuss Gaza and the possibility of a Palestinian

state. Abdullah Ghadawi is a Syrian analyst and journalist. He says, at least the political will for Syria to sign the Abraham Accords is there. So Ghadarwi says first Syria has to prove itself and create the stable economy. Then the government can move forward. There's such a monumental move like normalizing ties with Israel. So if this is going to happen, it's going to take a long time. I mean, Israel, it seems like would really benefit from this. Is the country saying it's on board? Well, on peace with Syria, officially, there's no comment yet from this. Is the country saying it's on board? Well, on peace with Syria, officially there's no comment yet from Israel. But Shara did

confirm that there have been indirect mediated talks with Israel recently to discuss security. There are members in the Israeli cabinet who still see Shara as a terrorist, but there are others who are being more pragmatic. They say we're entering this new era of the Middle East, Saudi Arabia possibly normalizing with Israel, the fall of the Assad regime. So, and they also lately have been feeling like they've been sidelined by Trump and they want back in. And so many say that this could be a way to do that. Also, peace between the two countries would mean Israel could secure its border against a once sworn enemy and perhaps avoid another attack on its land like on October 7th, 2023. It would also mean that the route of weapons from Iran to Hezbollah through

Syria would be cut off. I mean, that that would be quite a different Middle East. Is it fair to say that this meeting between Trump and Shah kickstarted all of this? I mean, look, there are all these lucrative deals, weapon sales, and contracts, but for Trump, it's also about his legacy. I spoke to Middle East scholar Thomas Warrick from the Atlantic Council in Washington, DC, and he said all of this was very much on Trump's mind. The leaders who made peace between Israel and Egypt won the Nobel Prize. Everyone realizes

the Nobel Committee would undoubtedly recognize the leaders who made peace between Israel and Syria. So this is very much in the cards. So look, yes, it's all talk right now. But Trump has long been obsessed with winning this Nobel Prize. You know, he even brought it up last February, when he told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in the Oval Office that he deserved it. I feel like I remember during one of his campaigns, crowds, no bell, no bell during his rallies. It's been something that's long in his mind. He really wants it.

That was NPR's Hadil Alshalchi in Tel Aviv. Thank you so much. You're welcome. This episode was produced by Avery Keatley. It was edited by Kerry Kahn and Sarah Robbins. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. The end again. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detro.

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