Consider This from NPR - Pope Francis I has died. What happens now?

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

On Monday morning in Rome Cardinal Kevin Farrell Camerlengo or Cardinal Chamberlain of the Holy Roman Church announced the death of Pope Francis I.That was followed some 17 hours later by the rite of ascertainment. A formal acknowledgement of Francis' death...and the transfer of his body to his coffin. And it's one a few of the many centuries-old rituals that will play out over the next several days as the church mourns Pope Francis.There will be the mourning of the faithful as Francis' body lies in St. Peter's Basilica. A funeral, where Francis will be remembered by his fellow priests, followers and world leaders. Then, the Conclave where the College of Cardinals will meet to choose his successor.Pope Francis has died at 88. Now the church has to chart a course without his leadership. Who will be his successor, and what path will he choose? For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Carissimi fratelli e sorelle, con profundo dolore devo annunciare la morte del nostro Santo Padre Francesco. That is Cardinal Kevin Farrell, camera lengo or Cardinal Chamberlain of the Holy Roman Church announcing the death of Pope Francis I. That was followed some 17 hours later by the Rite of Accertainment, a formal acknowledgement of Francis' death, a few of the many centuries-old rituals that will play out over the next several days as the Church mourns Pope Francis I. There will be the mourning of the faithful as Francis' body lies in St. Peter's Basilica, a funeral where Francis will be remembered by his fellow priests, followers, and world leaders, and

then the conclave where the College of Cardinals will meet to choose his successor. Consider this. Pope Francis has died at the age of 88. Now the Church has to chart a course without his leadership. Who will be his successor? And what path will he choose? From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. At Planet Money, we'll take you from a race to make rum in the Caribbean. Our rum from a quality standpoint is the best in the world.

To the labs dreaming up the most advanced microchips. It's very rare for people to go inside. To the back rooms of New York's Diamond District. What are you looking for the stupid guy here? They're all smart, don't worry about it. Planet Money from NPR. We go to the story and take you along with us wherever you get your podcasts. It's Consider This from NPR. Monday was a day of mourning for the world's billion-plus

Catholics. Next, the College of Cardinals will oversee the Church and the transition to a new Holy Father. That process culminates in a conclave. I spoke to author and journalist Father Thomas Rees of Religion News Service about the conclave and the election of a new pope. How are you remembering him today? Thomas Rees I remember him as someone who really changed the culture of the church. This is a man who hated clericalism. He kept telling bishops and priests to not act like princes, but to be with their people.

Danielle Pletka So, like many people listening to us, I feel like I know how a conclave works because I saw the movie last year. What should we know about the process that is about to unfold? Well, all of the cardinal electors will be coming to Rome for the Pope's funeral. That's 135 cardinals who are under the age of 80. 80% of those have been appointed by Pope Francis. So they will gather in the Sistine Chapel and twice a day they will have a vote and that will be done in silence and prayer. Outside of the Sistine Chapel there will be lots of conversations about who should be a pope.

LS And give us a little bit of insight into those conversations. What are the priorities supposed to be? Well, I think each cardinal is looking for three things in a future pope. First, he wants someone who will be a good pope, which of course means that the candidate agrees with the cardinal on the future of the church. The second thing he wants is someone who he has good relationship with, because he wants to be able to have someone who will listen to him after he becomes pope. And finally, he wants someone elected who will go down well in his part of the world,

in his country. Are there already names circulating, frontrunners? There's lots of names circulating, but there's no real frontrunners. When John Paul II was elected, it was a big surprise. When Francis was elected, it was a big surprise. So, it may be a surprise. LS. Does the fact that, as you just said, the majority of the cardinals who will be eligible to choose the next pope, that they themselves were appointed by Pope Francis. Does that influence the outcome? Does that suggest they may want someone in his mold?

Dr. Robert B. Reilly I think it certainly is going to influence the outcome. We're not going to see someone elected who stands up and says that the papacy of Francis was a disaster and we're going back to the old church. That's just not gonna happen. We will see someone who will talk about continuity with the legacy of Pope Francis. Danielle Pletka I mentioned the movie Conclave. It includes a scene where we see two factions of the church, two wings, liberals versus traditionalists, and they are vying for control and vying is putting it politely. Is that real? Is that divide real amongst the Cardinals?

Well, there are some Cardinals who are very conservative and would like to bring the church back to the way it was a long time ago, but they're in a minority today. They make a lot of noise, but they are not a majority in the College of Cardinals, not today. They make a lot of noise, but they are not a majority in the College of Cardinals, not today. Danielle Pletka How big a factor is geography? Much has been made of the fact that Francis was the first non-European to hold that role in a thousand years. Dr. Robert B. Reilly Geography is extremely important because

different parts of the world have different concerns. The global South is very concerned about poverty, about the economic system, about globalization, about wars, and they're concerned about migrants and refugees trying to find safe places to live. On the other hand, you know, the people in the North, we're very strong on ecumenism, we're very strong in having good relations with the Jewish community. These are important things to us.

We're very strong on taking care of the sex abuse crisis, making sure that this does not happen again. So there are different priorities in different parts of the world, but, and, you know, we may see how that plays out. I mean, this selection process is about as far from transparent as it feels possible to get. They will be sealed inside the Sistine Chapel. Will we ever get visibility into why whoever is chosen the next pope was chosen? Well, of course, when the cardinals come out, each one of them can talk about why he likes the new pope or doesn't like the new pope. So we'll get that, but we certainly will not know how each person votes. The cardinals themselves will not even know that. It's a

secret ballot and the ballots are burned after they're counted. Timing. I mean, choosing the next pope will take as long as it takes, I guess, but are we likely talking what, weeks? 06. David R. Reilly We haven't had a conclave last more than three days for 100 years. So we would expect them to be able to get their work done, especially because they will have time before the conclave to talk over dinner and over coffee and, you know,

in small groups about who they think the pope should be. So there's a lot of, well, let's call it politicking happening before the cardinals actually gather in the Sistine Chapel. Father Tom Reese, he's a journalist, author, and Jesuit priest. He writes the Signs of the Times column for Religion News Service. Father Reese, thank you. Father Reese Good to be with you. Sarah This episode was produced by Tyler Bartlem. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.