Consider This from NPR - Presidents Trump and Zeleneskyy meet this week. What’s their relationship like?

Starting point is 00:00:00 It's considered this, where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, setting the stage for a key White House meeting, it's been a busy couple of weeks in Ukraine. First, Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, fired his popular defense minister. That decision led to mass protests across the country. In response, Zelenskyy, fired. the increasingly unpopular commander-in-chief of Ukraine's armed forces, a decision that was welcomed by the protesters. And all of this comes just as the Ukrainian president prepares to visit the White House to discuss the state of the war. Consider this. Amid a busy few weeks in Ukraine, presidents Trump and Zelensky are set to meet at the White House.

Starting point is 00:00:54 What's the status of their relationship? And how could it shape the war in Ukraine? From NPR, I'm Debbie Elliott. It's consider this from NPR. Ukrainian President Volodemir Zelenskyy is scheduled to meet with President Trump at the White House on Tuesday. Last year, when the two met there, things got tense.

Starting point is 00:01:27 You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position and he happens to be right about it. From the very beginning of the war. You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. That was at the White House in February of last year, but a lot has happened since. Trump and Zelensky appear to have mended their relationship, despite the fact that support for Ukraine remains divisive among Republicans.

Starting point is 00:01:51 Meanwhile, just last week, Ukraine's military leadership went through one of its biggest shake-up since the start of the full-scale invasion. Alexander Kriyev has been following these developments closely from Keev. He's the North America director of the Ukrainian prism, foreign policy council, a Kiev-based think tank. Welcome to the program. Yes, hello, nice to connect to you. So in just the last two weeks, Zelensky has fired both his defense minister and the commander-in-chief of Ukraine's armed forces. Can you tell us about the significance of those moves and what prompted them? Well, first of all, the main problem here is basic governmental mismanagement, because president has no

Starting point is 00:02:37 authority without the legal support from the Verhovna Rada, Ukrainian parliament, and without the good arguments on why he is going to fire these people. He has no authority to do so. So basically, the main outrage was not only because it was Fedorov or it was somebody else, but because Zelensky distinctively overstepped his own authority and he definitely violated several positions from Ukrainian constitution. So that was the first this year, I mean, that was the first major crisis of Ukrainian democracy, which hopefully was prevented by the activity of Ukrainian civil society and the activity of Ukrainians on the street. What was the scene on the street like and what were people saying? Well, as also being a senior lecturer at Kiev University, Kiev Mughal Academy,

Starting point is 00:03:28 I can only say that most of our students were there at the streets protesting these. managerial decisions of Zelensky. We see a lot of young people. We saw a lot of families with children being there. They are well organized. They are well managed through the social media. They involve a lot of people from different backgrounds, as I say, a lot of military guys who were also there. So there is a very distinguishably diverse crowd on the streets of Kiev, Lviv, Jitomer, and basically all the major cities in Ukraine. And to many of my compatriots, that was a the sign that Ukrainian democracy is still very vibrant. Although we didn't have elections since 2019, we still see that Ukrainians are not ready to give up on the democracy. And even in

Starting point is 00:04:15 wartime, Ukrainians are not ready to give up on their right to protest if the government is ready to do some shady stuff. So now with these two figures no longer at their military post, who's leading the war effort? Well, basically we have a new general Drapati. He is a career military person from Ukrainian armed forces. He was on the first armored vehicle that entered Mario Pol when the Mario Pol was liberated from the Russian occupiers in 2014. He is the general of the modern war. He is the one who was fighting for Ukraine since the start of the Russian aggression nearly nine years ago. And a very big plus for him, especially image-like plus, is that he is not very media active. Because unfortunately, we saw a lot of

Starting point is 00:05:02 of the so-called media generals, who were mostly active talking about the great victories, but not doing even enough for their men. And Drapate, he was very, to a very big extent, he was shy to promote his successes, although some of his tactics and some of his approaches, even in training, were deliberately sent to other brigades, to other battalions, to be taught and to be used by other generals. So Drapati is one of the best possible variants, that Zelensky could have chosen. Now, after these tumultuous two weeks in Ukraine, President Zelensky is headed here to D.C. to meet with President Trump in just a couple of days.

Starting point is 00:05:43 How would you describe their relationship heading into this meeting? To say, at least, the relations are unpredictable. We definitely do remember their first meeting last year at the Oval Office, but after that, we heard Trump speaking about Zelensky in a very good, tones. He was speaking about Ukrainians as being the protectors of Europe. He was also speaking about Ukrainians as being the one who started the war. However, we should also understand that as of now, Ukraine and Zelensky personally, we are beneficial for Trump, much more beneficial than the Russians, because it is not the idea for us to get Trump for being pro-Ukrainian.

Starting point is 00:06:26 He cannot be pro-Ukrainian or even pro-Russian. He is pro-Trumpian. So the idea for us is just to create this understanding in the Oval Office, in Trump's head, that he should work with Ukraine rather than working with Russia, because Russia, they are sabotaging the talks. They are blaming everything on either Europeans or Ukrainians. They're doing nothing to get the deal done. And what is interesting for President Trump is just to get the deal done. And that is why he's interested in meeting Zelensky. So in that case, if my understanding of Trump is correct, the main task for Zelensky is just to get on his good side and get everything rolling. That's Olexander Krayev, a political analyst at the Ukrainian PRISM foreign policy council in Kiev.

Starting point is 00:07:13 Thanks for your insights. Thank you for having me. This episode was produced by Daniel Offman with audio engineering by Valentina Rodriguez-Sanchez. Our director is Jordan Marie Smith. It was edited by 10-beat Armius. Our interim executive producer is Courtney Dorney. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Debbie Elliott.

Consider This from NPR - Presidents Trump and Zeleneskyy meet this week. What’s their relationship like?

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