Consider This from NPR - Sen. Ron Johnson blames state and local leaders for Alex Pretti’s killing

Episode Date: January 30, 2026

The civilian killings of Alex Pretti and Renee Macklin Good by federal immigration agents have launched a larger debate in Washington about funding for the Department of Homeland Security.Senate Democrats want to carve off DHS money from the broader spending package to keep the government open, and they want new limits on immigration agents, like a prohibition on masks and a requirement that officers carry ID. Republican Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin says he blames the actions of state and local leaders for the shooting deaths of Alex Pretti and Renee Macklin Good. He insists local leaders should have done more to cooperate with immigration enforcement efforts in Minneapolis.NPR’s Ailsa Chang spoke with Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson to discuss his thoughts on whether ICE, and other immigration enforcement agencies, need the reforms Democrats have asked for.At the time this episode aired, lawmakers were at an impasse regarding the federal spending package. But Senate Democrats now say they’ve reached a deal to separate DHS funding from the other five appropriations bills. You can read more details on npr.org.For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.  Email us at [e-mail] episode was produced by Brianna Scott. It was edited by Christopher Intagliata, Courtney Dorning and Kelsey Snell. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Midnight, January 30th. That is when funding for the federal government runs out. We've all been here before. Many, many times, everyone waiting and watching for Congress to come to an agreement on a continuing resolution to keep money flowing into the government. Remember last year? I'm saying that Congress, with the help of the White House right now, is not doing its job since they are now barreling toward a shutdown if they can't agree in a spending deal by midnight tonight. Or remember back in 2021? Well, the clock is ticking. The threat of a government shutdown is looming right now if a short-term spending bill isn't approved. And let's go even further back, 2018. In just an hour, the federal government will partially shut down. But this time feels different because there was a deal. The vote in the Senate this week was supposed to be just a formality.

That was until immigration enforcement officers shot and killed Alex Pretti on the streets of Minneapolis. If Republicans refused to work with us to reinstate, in ICE and to end the violence, they're telling the American people they're choosing to protect ice over choosing to protect people's safety. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer stood on the floor Thursday challenging the funding that has been set aside for the Department of Homeland Security, even though his Senate Democrats do support the rest of the spending package. Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California told NPR Stevenski how ICE operations must change. I'm not prepared to spend another time on

ICE unless there's just a massive set of reforms. Consider this. Democratic resistance to the immigration enforcement operation in Minnesota could result in a partial government shutdown. With hours left, can lawmakers even reach a deal? And will Democrats even get the reforms they want? From NPR, I'm Elsa Chang. This message comes from Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. You can send, spend, and receive and up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Be smart, get Wise.

Download the Wise app today or visit Wise.com. T's and C's Apply. This message comes from DataBricks, the data and AI company. AI agents work best when they have the right context, your unique data, your rules, your workflows. Agent Bricks helps companies build agents that are accurate, continuously learning, and automate everyday tasks. It's AI built for how your business actually runs. Agent Bricks by Data Bricks. AI agents grounded in your data and built for your goals.

This week on the NPR Politics Podcast. For months, the president's immigration strategy has been on full display. Now, some Republicans are having a hard time defending it. Yeah, I think that's a good weather vein for where the politics are headed in all of this. Cracks in the MAGA Coalition this week on the NPR podcast. politics podcast. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Consider This from NPR. Unlike his Democratic colleagues in the Senate, Wisconsin Republican Ron Johnson doesn't think that DHS funding should even be pulled into the battle over the

immigration enforcement operation in Minnesota. Johnson says he does want an investigation into the shooting of Alex Pretti, but not at the expense of government funding. I asked Senator Johnson if he thinks ICE even needs reforms. Well, what I agree is that we needed to secure our border. What I believe is that what we're dealing with right now is the enormous mess created by President Biden and Democrats who opened up our border, allowed millions of people to flood in this country, where ICE is doing enforcement actions, just like they've always done. under the Obama administration and the Biden administration, where they're doing this enforcement actions and local police are cooperating, there's no violence, there's no problem. We're just enforcing the law. The problem in Minneapolis is we have a governor and a mayor who are resisting.

You don't think that ICE needs any reforms then. There should be no changes on the federal government side when it comes to immigration agents. When you ask that question, when Democrats focus on that, they're focusing on the wrong problem. The root cause of this problem is the border. they opened up the millions of people, including criminals, that they've allowed to flood in this country. And now law enforcement has to take care of that problem. So what changes do you think need to be seen for law enforcement to better take care of this problem that you have identified, that you have characterized? The first change was we secured the border. It has to remain secure. The second change is there are people that need to be apprehended because they're criminals, murders, murders, rapists, sex, human drug traffickers that need to be apprehended.

and either jailed or deported. And that right now is what the sanctuary cities and people like Mayor Fry and Governor Walts are resisting and that have led to the tragedy. Had there not been an organized effort to resist those law enforcement actions, those two individuals in Minneapolis would still be alive. President Trump has tried to shake up the leadership for the federal immigration crackdown in Minneapolis.

He's replaced the Border Patrol official Greg Bovino with Borderzar Tom Homan. Homan said today that he is going to, quote, fix the situation there. Do you believe it is possible to fix the situation in Minneapolis with this change in leadership? If Governor Walves and Mayor Fry would cooperate with ICE rather than resist them, rather than send people into harm's way to create these types of martyrs, yeah, I think it can be fixed. Again, I personally, I want to target the criminals. I don't want to right now ICE targeting other people who are peer working and contributing society, but there are a lot of criminals. There are a lot of

criminals that have been let in that need to be apprehended and jailed and deported. Okay. You keep shifting blame to the mayor in Minneapolis and the governor in Minnesota. Can you tell me specifically what you need to see from them? Well, what do you need to see from them that's specifically to fix the situation in Minneapolis? Do what other governors and mayors have done. Cooperate with ICE. Cooperate with federal law enforcement when they're carrying out completely legal enforcement actions.

Cooperate with them. Don't resist. Don't send to your citizens their harm's way to resist them and protest against them. Cooperate. When you arresting the illegal immigrant, hold them for detention. And what are state and local officials supposed to do if they see federal, what are state and local officials supposed to do if they see federal immigration agents doing unlawful actions, such as fatally shooting people when it's not in self-defense, when there is no imminent, danger in that situation. There's no weapon being wielded right in the face of the federal agent.

Their open borders, their lack of cooperation, created the circumstance for that tragedy. So they should have cooperated on the front end. Right now, there will be a thorough investigation in terms of exactly what happened. And I'm just saying I've got a great deal sympathy for those ICE officers who are under constant threat. How would you like to be in law enforcement? And everybody, all of a sudden, you've got people who are opposed to what you're trying to do, showing up. You don't know whether they're armed, where they're just banishing cameras. You don't know. You're going to be on hair trigger alert, and that's what caused that's tragedy. There are still legal requirements for when any law enforcement officer can use lethal force.

It's not just if they don't know if the person is armed or not. Last question, going back to the federal spending package, Democrats at least, at the very least, they just want to split DHS funding from the rest of the spending package to keep the government open. Do you agree with that idea? Then they will never fund DHS. So it's applying me. They'll do it. They'll convince so people like you that, oh, they're just being very reasonable.

This is a way that they can defund DHS, just like they want to defund the police to disastrous consequences. So now I can't support that effort. Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, thank you very much for joining us. Have good day. Take care. That was Ron Johnson, Republican Senator of Wisconsin. This episode was produced by Breonna Skiyna. Scott, it was edited by Christopher and Taliatta and Kelsey Snell.

Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang. This message comes from Databricks, the data and AI company. Are your AI agents working? Most aren't reliable for business. You need AI that's accurate. Agent Bricks, AI agents grounded in your data and built for your goals.

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