Consider This from NPR - The End for Russian Mercenary Chief Yevgeny Prigozhin?

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

Russia's state news agency Tass reported that the country's most famous mercenary, Yevgeny Prigozhin, was on the passenger list for a flight that crashed on its way from Moscow to St. Petersburg on Wednesday, killing all ten people on board. Despite being on the passenger list, it's not clear Prigozhin was on the flight.As head of the Wagner Group, Prigozhin led an unsuccessful mutiny against the Russian military in June. He quickly stood down and struck a deal with Russian President Vladimir Putin that would see him exiled to neighboring Belarus. That exile never came and questions swirled about what punishment, if any, Prigozhin would face for crossing Putin. NPR's Mary Louise Kelly speaks with Nina Khrushcheva. She is a professor of international affairs at The New School in New York City, and she's also the great-granddaughter of former Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev. In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University is committed to moving the world forward, working to tackle some of society's biggest challenges. Nine campuses, one purpose. Creating tomorrow, today. More at iu.edu. A couple of months ago, it looked like there were basically two possible outcomes for Yevgeny Prigozhin — success or death. His Wagner Group mercenaries were pushing towards the Russian capital in a move that looked a whole lot like an attempted coup. President Vladimir Putin called it an act of treason. Prigozhin did not overthrow Putin. He turned his troops around, said this was just a protest, and, even stranger, Putin agreed to an amnesty deal.

This was not success for Prigozhin, so remember that other possible outcome? My feeling was when Putin pardoned the Wagner group, Prigozhin was a dead man walking. That's Nina Khrushcheva, professor of international affairs at the New School in New York City. She's also the great-granddaughter of former Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev. We talked to her a couple of weeks after that aborted mutiny, at a moment when it looked like Prigozhin may have escaped unscathed. The Kremlin announced Prigozhin had met with Putin and apparently buried the hatchet. Some of Prigozhin's property was returned, which is kind of almost unheard of. So he had a mutiny and suddenly all his money is back at him.

But was Prigozhin really safe? Was Putin really over this? With the war in Ukraine essentially stalling, he does need to have some sort of pacifying efforts and peace and quiet. And so that's exactly why I think he pardoned Prigozhin. I don't really believe that Putin is ever capable of forgiving him. A month later, Prgozhin may have met his end. The Russian state news agency TASS reported that he was on the passenger list for a

flight that crashed on its way from Moscow to St. Petersburg on Wednesday, though it has not been confirmed he was actually on board. Consider this. Like almost everything in Russian politics, the details of this incident are shrouded in uncertainty. Is Prokhorin dead? And if he is, what does that mean? We speak again with Nina Khrushcheva, who is in Moscow, to hear what she makes of it all. From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It's Wednesday, August 23rd. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange

rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today or visit wise.com. T's and C's apply. Support for NPR and the following message come from Jarl and Pamela Moan, thanking the people who make public radio great every day and also those who listen. This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University is committed to moving the world forward, working to tackle some of society's biggest challenges. IU makes bold investments in the future of bioscience and cybersecurity, cultivates visionary work in the arts and humanities, and prepares students to become

global citizens by teaching more languages than any other university in the country. Indiana University. Nine campuses, one purpose. Creating tomorrow, today. More at iu.edu. It's Consider This from NPR. So we will note here that this is a fast moving story and this interview was taped Wednesday afternoon, Eastern Time. We may learn more by the time you hear this. For what we do know, we'll turn to Nina Khrushcheva, a professor of international affairs at the New School in New York, but we found her in Moscow. Professor, welcome. Thank you. What's your top line reaction when you hear this news? I was surprised and not surprised, but you can't be surprised of anything

that's happening in Russia now. There are drones flying every day. So the Prigozhin plane on which he may or may not be is sort of one of those moments when things just get shot down. But we also, there's a lot of speculation because we also know that Prigozhin has a lot of doubles. So there's a lot of people playing Prigozhin, changing their names even legally. So once again, it may be one of those ploys to make it difficult to pin him down. You point to some of the many unanswered questions. Among them, the fact that Prigozhin's name was on the passenger list doesn't necessarily confirm that he was in fact on the flight. I do want to note, I asked CIA Director Bill Burns

about Prigozhin. This was last month at the Aspen Security Forum. Burns told me, and I quote, Vladimir Putin thinks revenge is a dish best served cold. Here's what he said. In my experience, Putin is the ultimate apostle of payback. So I would be surprised if Prokosian escapes further retribution for this. Professor Khrushcheva, again, nodding to the fact that there's so much we don't know. Is that likely what we are seeing today? Prokosian experiencing retribution for having crossed Vladimir Putin? We don't know. I mean, we really don't know.

It could be the cruelty of chance because, as I said, there are drones flying and there are terrorist attacks happening everywhere. But Putin is certainly not the guy who is going to let it slide. The reason I'm slightly concerned to speculate on that, because that seems too public, because Prigozhin was just heard speaking from Africa on Monday. And there are other ways of eliminating him, which are not that public and not that dramatic. You mentioned the drone attacks. And I will just add for context, there have been a series of drone attacks in the last few days in Moscow, Russia is blaming them on Ukraine, it has meant Moscow's main airports have seen flights halted, at least for a bit the last several days in a row.

So clearly air defenses have been on high alert, and we just don't know what exactly happened. I am mindful, as you will be, I'm sure, of the history, the startling frequency with which people who cross Putin tend to find themselves very ill, tend to find themselves no longer alive. I'm thinking Alexander Litvinenko, Sergei Skripal, there's a long list. Well, there's many. I mean, in fact, you know, the joke and, you know, Russia now has a lot of dim jokes, kind of very similar to what the Soviet Union used to be, is that Prigozhin really should be staying in the hotels. If he does, that doesn't have any windows opening. So, you know, probably he shouldn't be flying and whatnot. But Prigozhin really should be staying in the hotels. If he does, that doesn't have any windows opening. So, you know, probably he shouldn't be flying and whatnot.

But Prigozhin himself is a very masterful man. If anybody is able to deceive Putin, he would be the one. If, and again, a big if, if Prigozhin is dead, what would that mean? Either for domestic politics there in Russia or for the war in Ukraine? I don't think it would mean much for the war in Ukraine, because he has been out of that war now for two months. It's that, you know, Putin likes big boom and big performance in many ways. So that could be a message to mutineers. On the other hand, if Prigozhin is indeed dead, he will become or may become a martyr to those who are already a fan of those kind of very militant, very aggressive, very Wagner-like actions. If that's the case and he is killed, he may have created the whole martyr image of Prigozhin and the new Prigozhin army.

It is late there in Moscow where you are. Is there any reaction? Are people talking about this? Is this on state TV? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I already got, you know, 20 phone calls. We're all discussing it.

So everything is a speculation. Nobody knows what's going on. But as I said, nobody really expected on June 24th that Prigozhan will be, even if he was released and pardoned and he went to Africa, and what nobody really believes or believed that that would be the end of it. Nina Khrushcheva speaking with us from Moscow. She's a professor of international affairs at the New School in New York City and the great-granddaughter of former Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev. And one last note. After we taped with Khrushcheva, we got word of a post on a Wagner-affiliated

channel on the social media app Telegram. It reads, Purgoshen was killed as a result of the actions of traitors to Russia, but even in hell, he'll be the best. Glory to Russia. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. Support for NPR comes from NPR member stations and Eric and Wendy Schmidt through the Schmidt Family Foundation. Working toward a healthy, resilient, secure world for all. On the web at theschmidt.org.